These sets the Estate has put together are so full of gems that many often forget the album it's all based around and the work that goes into remasterning the original album. I can say w/o any doubt, the remaster of Sign O The TImes was nearly magical. That was easily the worst sounding album in my entire collection until the 2020 remaster. The sound was so improved, I was floored. All of this was discussed in great detail back when it was released, details like hearing him clink or hit the mic stand during one part of If I Was Your Girlfriend...the twinkling during Slow Love....so much.

I wanted to start this thread on the coming Diamonds and Pearls remaster. To me, Prince's intention was to show off how powerful this band was. The whole era was about Michael B's power and Sonny's low end. When I listen to Live 4 Love, the intention was surely to mix thunderous drums and screaming guitars (and Prince's screaming too). When you listen on a highly resolving stereo, the original album sounds thin...no near as bad as SOTT did but thin. I expect, the remaster will fill in that bottom end.

I also recall that Prince had changed the sound to include more low end...more than he usually used. I believe this will be the big improvement when we hear the reamaster. I 'm sure he intended this. From the many converations or emails I've exchanged over the years, I know Levi may have either brought in some Dr Dre people to find out how they had such awsome low end. Or, they may have just studied it. I am not suggesting any remixing should happen, just bring forth the intended sound.

Any thoughts are what I'm hoping to hear here.

Did Bernie Grundman remaster this too, like he did SOTT and 1999?

WhisperingDandelions said:

Did Bernie Grundman remaster this too, like he did SOTT and 1999?

.

Must be hard to read the press release or the text on the Prince Store website.

bizzie said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

Did Bernie Grundman remaster this too, like he did SOTT and 1999?

.

Must be hard to read the press release or the text on the Prince Store website.

.

Must be hard press two/three keys like "yes" or "no".

bizzie said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

Did Bernie Grundman remaster this too, like he did SOTT and 1999?

.

Must be hard to read the press release or the text on the Prince Store website.

Must be hard to be such a **** 24/7

im interested to see what they do.

this album is always going to sound clean and glossy, but maybe they will give it some clarity in the mixing. daddy pop could do with that.

thunder could do with some beefing up...

bizzie said:

Must be hard to read the press release or the text on the Prince Store website.

Look Bart, I like playing along with this whole "bizzie" persona schtick more than the average org'er but you're not making it any easier breaking out your Top 40 crossover greatest hits like this. The "must be hard to read" blah blah is like your Superbowl "Purple Rain".

The set sucks anyway. I refuse to read any press releases on general principle based off the duplicate live show and lack of hologram. This shit makes a hypothetical New Power Soul SDE seem like the holy grail.

trickyjoe7777 said:

bizzie said:

.

Must be hard to read the press release or the text on the Prince Store website.

Must be hard to be such a **** 24/7

I disagree. Considering how long Bart/Bert/Udo/Bort/Bizzie has been a prick I would say it's become second nature by now. So, not hard at all!

rap said:

themanfromneptune said:

bizzie said:

.

Must be hard to read the press release or the text on the Prince Store website.

.

Must be hard press two/three keys like "yes" or "no".

Or "to."

mb71 said:

themanfromneptune said:

.

Must be hard press two/three keys like "yes" or "no".

Or "to."

At the risk of dragging this out, had someone else made that mistake, he would have pounced on them!

WhisperingDandelions said:

peedub said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

Did Bernie Grundman remaster this too, like he did SOTT and 1999?

yes

thx.

We'll see what the GrundMan cooks up. SOTT was ok. "It" drums were kind of weird and overly compressed taking out the building punch but maybe D&P will fare better.

Thanks @joeycoco am going to listen to the SOTT remaster with new ears now...I had no idea (until I read this) that it had improved it so much.

Like many on here I spent so much time hammering the Vault discs, I completely forgot to listen the mastering of the actual album!

As a footnote however, I think I may be one of the few ppl that didn't enjoy the remastering and remixing of the Live from '85 Syracuse set. Inevitably it was more democratically mixed e.g. you could hear more of BrownMark's bass rumble, slightly less of Wendy & Lisa's backing vox etc etc...but again it wasn't how P wanted it mixed...or how I'd been hearing it for years.

That will be sacrilege to some/many but I find that set hard to listen to now...purely as it's not Prince's mix...and not how he intended it, even though I agree the balance is better. Prince's methods were clearly unconventional, but that's what made him a genius and not like everyone else. He mixed it the way he mixed it for a reason.

But that said SOTT remaster here we come nonetheless, appreciate it JC.

T

that's interesting...you are comparing Syracuse video tape audio to the CD they did last year. What are you listening on? The sound on the new cd from last year was so powerful. Prince's guitar is so much more powerful than anything we'd heard before....

Tokyo2 said:

Thanks @joeycoco am going to listen to the SOTT remaster with new ears now...I had no idea (until I read this) that it had improved it so much.

Like many on here I spent so much time hammering the Vault discs, I completely forgot to listen the mastering of the actual album!

As a footnote however, I think I may be one of the few ppl that didn't enjoy the remastering and remixing of the Live from '85 Syracuse set. Inevitably it was more democratically mixed e.g. you could hear more of BrownMark's bass rumble, slightly less of Wendy & Lisa's backing vox etc etc...but again it wasn't how P wanted it mixed...or how I'd been hearing it for years.

That will be sacrilege to some/many but I find that set hard to listen to now...purely as it's not Prince's mix...and not how he intended it, even though I agree the balance is better. Prince's methods were clearly unconventional, but that's what made him a genius and not like everyone else. He mixed it the way he mixed it for a reason.

But that said SOTT remaster here we come nonetheless, appreciate it JC.

T

One more thing...Prince, by many accounts, cared little on the sound quality. When you think of Steely Dan, Pink Floyd...many others and how they obsessed on recording and how it would sound, it's amazing an artist of Prince's calibre would not put more care into that. So, I am not someone who wants any one to fiddle with the mix...that is part of the art. He wanted things mixed the way it is...he wanted us not to hear clearly the bass line in Alphabet St....he wanted us to strain to hear the guitar solo through the end of When Doves cry ...the only place I think he really made a mistake is the low vocals on most of the For You album. Anyway, i don't want anyone to ever touch his mixes. However, to squeeze out more detail from the albums...no brainer. I would suggest you find Number23's review of SOTT remaster. He/she captured a LOT of great detail. I know I did to...you can search for my post too. I was startled by the detail and I pointed out specifics...

So far, the quality of the reamasters get very little praise. If the Estate didn't care, they would skip this altogether and just pound us with the vault discs. Instead, they put the right people in for the remasters which tells me, they care.

prince didnt care about engineering or mixes.

he wasnt like hendrix for example.

he just cared about the song and the performance.

getting it down was most important, so he could move on to the next thing.

can you imagine him tinkering for hours on a drum sound? i cant. thats why he worked with inexperienced engineers, so he could avoid all that stuff, and work with people who wouldnt challenge him on that.

obv he liked to get some cool, different sounds out the linn or whatever, but that was the actual sound of the machine/instrument, he wasnt into perfecting how his records sounded. when he was, it ended up just being too glossy and perfect (eg most post-1990 prince music).

ive also not spent much time on the actual album remasters, so im not sure how they compare, but now im interested to go back and compare properly. listening to SOTT on vinyl, i always thought vinyl compensates a bit for the deficiences in the sound, so i never noticed it as being as bad as people say. i also just think prince liked it as it was. and that well, thats how it came out, so thats how its meant to be.

[Edited 8/28/23 8:57am]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

prince didnt care about engineering or mixes.

he wasnt like hendrix for example.

he just cared about the song and the performance.

getting it down was most important, so he could move on to the next thing.

can you imagine him tinkering for hours on a drum sound? i cant. thats why he worked with inexperienced engineers, so he could avoid all that stuff, and work with people who wouldnt challenge him on that.

obv he liked to get some cool, different sounds out the linn or whatever, but that was the actual sound of the machine/instrument, he wasnt into perfecting how his records sounded. when he was, it ended up just being too glossy and perfect (eg most post-1990 prince music).

ive also not spent much time on the actual album remasters, so im not sure how they compare, but now im interested to go back and compare properly. listening to SOTT on vinyl, i always thought vinyl compensates a bit for the deficiences in the sound, so i never noticed it as being as bad as people say. i also just think prince liked it as it was. and that well, thats how it came out, so thats how its meant to be.

[Edited 8/28/23 8:57am]

I agree...can't see Prince taking too much time. Sheila E says it where she hadn't even screwed in the symbol when he started to count off on his guitar

I only disagree with your last line, that it was meant to be. If the engineers can squeeze out more detail without tinkering with the mixes...why not. The details are thrilling to hear....

one more...

I'd suggest you also find the first Time album's remaster....it came out last year and it's actually quite good! It is a definite improvement over the original.

jeffreymiller said:

I just pray no one is “gutted” after listening to it.😂😂😂😂

throwback, but i'm appreciating it

JoeyCococo said:

One more thing...Prince, by many accounts, cared little on the sound quality. When you think of Steely Dan, Pink Floyd...many others and how they obsessed on recording and how it would sound, it's amazing an artist of Prince's calibre would not put more care into that. So, I am not someone who wants any one to fiddle with the mix...that is part of the art. He wanted things mixed the way it is...he wanted us not to hear clearly the bass line in Alphabet St....he wanted us to strain to hear the guitar solo through the end of When Doves cry ...the only place I think he really made a mistake is the low vocals on most of the For You album. Anyway, i don't want anyone to ever touch his mixes. However, to squeeze out more detail from the albums...no brainer. I would suggest you find Number23's review of SOTT remaster. He/she captured a LOT of great detail. I know I did to...you can search for my post too. I was startled by the detail and I pointed out specifics...

So far, the quality of the reamasters get very little praise. If the Estate didn't care, they would skip this altogether and just pound us with the vault discs. Instead, they put the right people in for the remasters which tells me, they care.

Yeah Miles Davis talks about Prince's philosophy on basslines in interviews and in his book.

In the 80s Prince was 100% intentionally trying to obscure the basslines themselves and emphasize more of the treble/higher ranges of his style.

[Edited 8/28/23 18:23pm]

JoeyCococo said:

one more...

I'd suggest you also find the first Time album's remaster....it came out last year and it's actually quite good! It is a definite improvement over the original.

was this CD?

There's a Japanese Ice Cream Castles CD pressing that's marketedly better than the US CD that doesn't get mentioned much.

WhisperingDandelions said:

Tokyo2 said:

Tokyo2 said:

Thanks @joeycoco am going to listen to the SOTT remaster with new ears now...I had no idea (until I read this) that it had improved it so much.

Like many on here I spent so much time hammering the Vault discs, I completely forgot to listen the mastering of the actual album!

As a footnote however, I think I may be one of the few ppl that didn't enjoy the remastering and remixing of the Live from '85 Syracuse set. Inevitably it was more democratically mixed e.g. you could hear more of BrownMark's bass rumble, slightly less of Wendy & Lisa's backing vox etc etc...but again it wasn't how P wanted it mixed...or how I'd been hearing it for years.

That will be sacrilege to some/many but I find that set hard to listen to now...purely as it's not Prince's mix...and not how he intended it, even though I agree the balance is better. Prince's methods were clearly unconventional, but that's what made him a genius and not like everyone else. He mixed it the way he mixed it for a reason.

But that said SOTT remaster here we come nonetheless, appreciate it JC.

T

The live mix you are talking about is surely the only official release of that Syracuse show....on VHS video tape. I'm doubting highly he cared terribly about a mix that on tape, played through a VCR, on a tv with crappy speakers (remember, it's 1985). If he were very concerned about sound quality, he'd have removed that echo on the first line he sings on Purple Rain..corrected in last year's mix.

I am also highly highly doubting he'd be upset with how awsome his guitar sounds on PR in last year's release. It was just so full.

I hope you post what you think of the SOTT remaster.

JoeyCococo said:

Tokyo2 said:

Thanks @joeycoco am going to listen to the SOTT remaster with new ears now...I had no idea (until I read this) that it had improved it so much.

Like many on here I spent so much time hammering the Vault discs, I completely forgot to listen the mastering of the actual album!

As a footnote however, I think I may be one of the few ppl that didn't enjoy the remastering and remixing of the Live from '85 Syracuse set. Inevitably it was more democratically mixed e.g. you could hear more of BrownMark's bass rumble, slightly less of Wendy & Lisa's backing vox etc etc...but again it wasn't how P wanted it mixed...or how I'd been hearing it for years.

That will be sacrilege to some/many but I find that set hard to listen to now...purely as it's not Prince's mix...and not how he intended it, even though I agree the balance is better. Prince's methods were clearly unconventional, but that's what made him a genius and not like everyone else. He mixed it the way he mixed it for a reason.

But that said SOTT remaster here we come nonetheless, appreciate it JC.

T

The live mix you are talking about is surely the only official release of that Syracuse show....on VHS video tape. I'm doubting highly he cared terribly about a mix that on tape, played through a VCR, on a tv with crappy speakers (remember, it's 1985). If he were very concerned about sound quality, he'd have removed that echo on the first line he sings on Purple Rain..corrected in last year's mix.

I am also highly highly doubting he'd be upset with how awsome his guitar sounds on PR in last year's release. It was just so full.

I hope you post what you think of the SOTT remaster.

.
Yes, the guitar sounds much better on the latest remaster. However, as a whole, I have a lot of issues with that release. My main gripe is that having access to the multitracks, they couldn't resist the temptation to mute individual tracks whenever they aren't playing – and this results in a constantly changing soundscape with different noise levels. Totally unnatural and it really annoys me. When Prince is playing his guitar, you get all the noise that is naturally part of a high-gain, distorted guitar, but as soon as he stops playing, all that noise is muted. So in my humble opinion they just missed a big opportunity to create a truly enjoyable live sound.

Kares said:

JoeyCococo said:

The live mix you are talking about is surely the only official release of that Syracuse show....on VHS video tape. I'm doubting highly he cared terribly about a mix that on tape, played through a VCR, on a tv with crappy speakers (remember, it's 1985). If he were very concerned about sound quality, he'd have removed that echo on the first line he sings on Purple Rain..corrected in last year's mix.

I am also highly highly doubting he'd be upset with how awsome his guitar sounds on PR in last year's release. It was just so full.

I hope you post what you think of the SOTT remaster.

.
Yes, the guitar sounds much better on the latest remaster. However, as a whole, I have a lot of issues with that release. My main gripe is that having access to the multitracks, they couldn't resist the temptation to mute individual tracks whenever they aren't playing – and this results in a constantly changing soundscape with different noise levels. Totally unnatural and it really annoys me. When Prince is playing his guitar, you get all the noise that is naturally part of a high-gain, distorted guitar, but as soon as he stops playing, all that noise is muted. So in my humble opinion they just missed a big opportunity to create a truly enjoyable live sound.

Ideally, a matrix mix of, let's say 40% of last year's remaster and 60% of the original mix from 1985 would be just perfect.

Kares said:

JoeyCococo said:

The live mix you are talking about is surely the only official release of that Syracuse show....on VHS video tape. I'm doubting highly he cared terribly about a mix that on tape, played through a VCR, on a tv with crappy speakers (remember, it's 1985). If he were very concerned about sound quality, he'd have removed that echo on the first line he sings on Purple Rain..corrected in last year's mix.

I am also highly highly doubting he'd be upset with how awsome his guitar sounds on PR in last year's release. It was just so full.

I hope you post what you think of the SOTT remaster.

.
Yes, the guitar sounds much better on the latest remaster. However, as a whole, I have a lot of issues with that release. My main gripe is that having access to the multitracks, they couldn't resist the temptation to mute individual tracks whenever they aren't playing – and this results in a constantly changing soundscape with different noise levels. Totally unnatural and it really annoys me. When Prince is playing his guitar, you get all the noise that is naturally part of a high-gain, distorted guitar, but as soon as he stops playing, all that noise is muted. So in my humble opinion they just missed a big opportunity to create a truly enjoyable live sound.

Well, that is very interesting...if it were that obvious, I think i'd have heard it. However, I'm going to go back and listen again. I have played Purple Rain off of that release 1000x I never heard that. Were you listening on ear buds??

Tokyo2, did you try the SOTT Remaster? How did you find it?