There are lots of posts aboutrequesting music releases, but I think it is time to be honest about how the Prince community works. Prince fans do not really want official releases. It is too dangerous to the ones at the top.

I am not new to the group. The elephant in the room is usually used to refer to a problem nobody wants to speak about. But let's say it.

A group of happy fews keep an amount of content for themselves. They do not willingly want to share with the rest of the fans. It is not that they cannot, but they refuse because they want to feel superior. They want power over the rest of the world. They have an ego problem. It is like going back to kindergarden "I have this and you don't have that".

People at the top only share when they decide that, in their opinion, they have accumulated enough to share crusts.

You think what is circulating is everything which is outside outside the vault? Sorry but no... it is not true.

If you disagree with this way of working, beware of saying something. You could frustrate those at the top, and nothing would come down anymore.

So a few folks genuinely don't want some material to be released because they would no longer be the only ones who can enjoy it. It is unbearable to them that more fans outside the happy fews get the same material.

I do laugh when I see a few names shouting they want releases. That is because those people have been contributing to the system of sitting on material for a long time.

If you genuinely want releases, stand up and share what you are sitting on.

i genuinely want to know where the arks are before the flood comes!

WhenFansCry said:

There are lots of posts aboutrequesting music releases, but I think it is time to be honest about how the Prince community works. Prince fans do not really want official releases. It is too dangerous to the ones at the top.

I am not new to the group. The elephant in the room is usually used to refer to a problem nobody wants to speak about. But let's say it.

A group of happy fews keep an amount of content for themselves. They do not willingly want to share with the rest of the fans. It is not that they cannot, but they refuse because they want to feel superior. They want power over the rest of the world. They have an ego problem. It is like going back to kindergarden "I have this and you don't have that".

People at the top only share when they decide that, in their opinion, they have accumulated enough to share crusts.

You think what is circulating is everything which is outside outside the vault? Sorry but no... it is not true.

If you disagree with this way of working, beware of saying something. You could frustrate those at the top, and nothing would come down anymore.

So a few folks genuinely don't want some material to be released because they would no longer be the only ones who can enjoy it. It is unbearable to them that more fans outside the happy fews get the same material.

I do laugh when I see a few names shouting they want releases. That is because those people have been contributing to the system of sitting on material for a long time.

If you genuinely want releases, stand up and share what you are sitting on.

.
This has been discussed dozens of times before. And no, we don't need crap quality cassettes to be shared anymore. We need the original masters, the official releases. And contrary to rumours, the vault contains a great number of quality material we haven't even heard about, far more than the number of unreleased outtakes in the hands of a few.

Kares said:

And no, we don't need crap quality cassettes to be shared anymore.

WhenFansCry is ascribing way too much importance to people who happen to have a select number of uncirculating whatever and I don't really agree that begging "the elite" to share whatever is a solution, but lol @ "we don't need" cassettes to be shared anymore - think about how many random things are only in the hands of traders, things that the P estate would never even dream of officially releasing unless they really and truly did a complete dump of everything they had for a specific era. Think about how many WIP cassettes were made throughout every point of the production process (look no further than the documentation in the Tudahl books...). Some traders and associates 110 percent have a firmer grasp on this stuff than anyone even near the estate ever will, so yes it would be nice to have those crap quality cassettes be shared in the future - take for instance original cassette mixes of the 1999 or SOTT SDE stuff that wasn't circulating publicly before, wouldn't that be nice to have?

The Prince Estate has deemed Bloody Mouth unreleaseable as its official release would cause massive economic implications for the trading circles and would result in unfathomable instability and inflation to the BMD (Bloody Mouth Dollar).

lustmealways said:

Kares said:

And no, we don't need crap quality cassettes to be shared anymore.

WhenFansCry is ascribing way too much importance to people who happen to have a select number of uncirculating whatever and I don't really agree that begging "the elite" to share whatever is a solution, but lol @ "we don't need" cassettes to be shared anymore - think about how many random things are only in the hands of traders, things that the P estate would never even dream of officially releasing unless they really and truly did a complete dump of everything they had for a specific era. Think about how many WIP cassettes were made throughout every point of the production process (look no further than the documentation in the Tudahl books...). Some traders and associates 110 percent have a firmer grasp on this stuff than anyone even near the estate ever will, so yes it would be nice to have those crap quality cassettes be shared in the future - take for instance original cassette mixes of the 1999 or SOTT SDE stuff that wasn't circulating publicly before, wouldn't that be nice to have?

.
Okay, I hear you and I agree. What I meant is that we don't need another 15th grade cassette copy of an unreleased master when the Estate is free to release the original in all its glory – and we definitely don't want such a new bootleg potentially jeopardize an official release.
But yes, the kind of stuff that has 0% chance of ever coming out officially should be shared.

Kares said:

(...)And no, we don't need crap quality cassettes to be shared anymore. We need the original masters, the official releases. (...)

I am not talking about the show taped with a hair dryer from the back of the room. I am talking about genuine copies from masters in excellent quality. So much is not being shared.

WhenFansCry said:

So much is not being shared.

.
Address your complaints to your "honourable" pals in charge.

I am not a member of the privileged fews, sorry.

Fans are the first problems. If sharing was genuine, then there would be no happy fews trying to control the rest of the community.

Again, I would like that sittings on recordings of genuine professional quality stand up and start sharing with the wider Prince world.

WhenFansCry said:

I am not a member of the privileged fews, sorry.

Fans are the first problems. If sharing was genuine, then there would be no happy fews trying to control the rest of the community.

Again, I would like that sittings on recordings of genuine professional quality stand up and start sharing with the wider Prince world.

.
Apparently you have no idea how all this works. People are not going to betray promises, expose their sources, or simply just give up their collection of rare stuff that they spent decades accumulating. Serious collecting means investing thousands of hours into research, building and maintaining personal relationships etc. There's a lot of stuff in private hands that will never be shared, period.
Bombard the Estate with requests. They are the ones sitting on the vast majority of the good stuff.

Kares said:

.
Apparently you have no idea how all this works. People are not going to betray promises, expose their sources, or simply just give up their collection of rare stuff that they spent decades accumulating. (...)

I have enough confirmed information to say that this is not true.

Can you share what you are sitting on with me please?

.

[Edited 7/26/23 23:36pm]

Alright guys. You win. I give up. Here's "Fun Love" in pristine quality:


https://we.tl/t-WIpXQJPbMK

lustmealways said:

lustmealways said:

Alright guys. You win. I give up. Here's "Fun Love" in pristine quality:


https://we.tl/t-WIpXQJPbMK

Neat-o! Thank you.

WhenFansCry said:

There are lots of posts aboutrequesting music releases, but I think it is time to be honest about how the Prince community works. Prince fans do not really want official releases. It is too dangerous to the ones at the top.

I am not new to the group. The elephant in the room is usually used to refer to a problem nobody wants to speak about. But let's say it.

A group of happy fews keep an amount of content for themselves. They do not willingly want to share with the rest of the fans. It is not that they cannot, but they refuse because they want to feel superior. They want power over the rest of the world. They have an ego problem. It is like going back to kindergarden "I have this and you don't have that".

People at the top only share when they decide that, in their opinion, they have accumulated enough to share crusts.

You think what is circulating is everything which is outside outside the vault? Sorry but no... it is not true.

If you disagree with this way of working, beware of saying something. You could frustrate those at the top, and nothing would come down anymore.

So a few folks genuinely don't want some material to be released because they would no longer be the only ones who can enjoy it. It is unbearable to them that more fans outside the happy fews get the same material.

I do laugh when I see a few names shouting they want releases. That is because those people have been contributing to the system of sitting on material for a long time.

If you genuinely want releases, stand up and share what you are sitting on.

There is some of this for sure (looking at you Questlove), then there is the reality that a lot of traditional avenues to share have been shut down or threatened with fines that these releases just aren't as prevalent as it once was. I've been collecting unreleased and bootleg concerts since the late 80s, and this is the driest it's ever been.

lustmealways said:

Kares said:

And no, we don't need crap quality cassettes to be shared anymore.

WhenFansCry is ascribing way too much importance to people who happen to have a select number of uncirculating whatever and I don't really agree that begging "the elite" to share whatever is a solution, but lol @ "we don't need" cassettes to be shared anymore - think about how many random things are only in the hands of traders, things that the P estate would never even dream of officially releasing unless they really and truly did a complete dump of everything they had for a specific era. Think about how many WIP cassettes were made throughout every point of the production process (look no further than the documentation in the Tudahl books...). Some traders and associates 110 percent have a firmer grasp on this stuff than anyone even near the estate ever will, so yes it would be nice to have those crap quality cassettes be shared in the future - take for instance original cassette mixes of the 1999 or SOTT SDE stuff that wasn't circulating publicly before, wouldn't that be nice to have?

-

There's also stuff the estate likely don't even have copies of. rough cassette recordings, home video, studio material that was "lost" before it even made it to the vault etc

Revolution81 said:

There's also stuff the estate likely don't even have copies of. rough cassette recordings, home video, studio material that was "lost" before it even made it to the vault etc

Recalling stories of venues sending P tapes of his shows and them ending up in a dumpster...

Or something like that, I'd have to go back and read it.

[Edited 7/26/23 16:53pm]

goodgod said:

Orrr if the elite traders don’t want to give up their material for free, how about stage a groupbuy maybe? I mean hello? All the other communities are doing one, the Kanye community, the MJ Community, the Zappa Community, why can’t the elite over here do one? I understand not showing the full thing of a tape I guess but not even a snippet? Something? I know a lot of people who are willing just to pay a fortune for even a screening of the concert footage and unreleased tracks. I don’t get holding on to stuff when most likely (if the Estate gets their stuff together) to release it in high quality. Hey just giving a suggestion to the elite (i know u are reading this) Just do something at least, a crumb? a piece? anything…

I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS BRO. we need a groupbuy discord or something

claudemorton said:

WhenFansCry said:

There are lots of posts aboutrequesting music releases, but I think it is time to be honest about how the Prince community works. Prince fans do not really want official releases. It is too dangerous to the ones at the top.

I am not new to the group. The elephant in the room is usually used to refer to a problem nobody wants to speak about. But let's say it.

A group of happy fews keep an amount of content for themselves. They do not willingly want to share with the rest of the fans. It is not that they cannot, but they refuse because they want to feel superior. They want power over the rest of the world. They have an ego problem. It is like going back to kindergarden "I have this and you don't have that".

People at the top only share when they decide that, in their opinion, they have accumulated enough to share crusts.

You think what is circulating is everything which is outside outside the vault? Sorry but no... it is not true.

If you disagree with this way of working, beware of saying something. You could frustrate those at the top, and nothing would come down anymore.

So a few folks genuinely don't want some material to be released because they would no longer be the only ones who can enjoy it. It is unbearable to them that more fans outside the happy fews get the same material.

I do laugh when I see a few names shouting they want releases. That is because those people have been contributing to the system of sitting on material for a long time.

If you genuinely want releases, stand up and share what you are sitting on.

There is some of this for sure (looking at you Questlove)

This.

Revolution81 said:

lustmealways said:

WhenFansCry is ascribing way too much importance to people who happen to have a select number of uncirculating whatever and I don't really agree that begging "the elite" to share whatever is a solution, but lol @ "we don't need" cassettes to be shared anymore - think about how many random things are only in the hands of traders, things that the P estate would never even dream of officially releasing unless they really and truly did a complete dump of everything they had for a specific era. Think about how many WIP cassettes were made throughout every point of the production process (look no further than the documentation in the Tudahl books...). Some traders and associates 110 percent have a firmer grasp on this stuff than anyone even near the estate ever will, so yes it would be nice to have those crap quality cassettes be shared in the future - take for instance original cassette mixes of the 1999 or SOTT SDE stuff that wasn't circulating publicly before, wouldn't that be nice to have?

-

There's also stuff the estate likely don't even have copies of. rough cassette recordings, home video, studio material that was "lost" before it even made it to the vault etc

The cassettes are always relevant because the vaunted "pristine" "original masters" (the 65-70%-ish amount of times they actually use original masters) usually require a contemporary Estate-appointed employee to mix them down. Like how Londell hit the "mono" button by accident with the last release or whatever it was before Spicer went full tape hoarder and gave Celebration atendees transcoded real media files, Michael Howe from the last admin, etc.

The cassettes may be muddy, hissy, and multi-generation dubs but in a lot of cases they're actually Prince's mixes, even if just a quick mixdown to play a cassette in his car or give to an associate or whatever.

[Edited 7/26/23 23:38pm]

JorisE73 said:

JorisE73 said:

(...) We aren't of interest to the people who have this material and they are not collecting for us, just accept it and find the material yourself.

The point is not that collectors are collecting for the community, even though that would mean being part of a group and actively supporting this group. The point is that there are people who decide with a fraction of people, not because a recording is sensitive, but for the sole reason that they don't want the sole reason that it hurst them that the rest of world can listen/watch the material. Sharing the said material would not harm anyone for the majority of the recordings.

You call me newbie but I am not. I have been collecting for 30 years.