Did anyone else sleep on what a great album For You is for the longest time?

Reply #31 posted 08/16/23 10:15pm

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lurker316 said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

Mastering. Starting like 1993 he's got the worst CDs in history. All the analogue tech in the world is irrelevant if you brickwall the mix as the last step.

OK, but brickwalling isn't the same as digitizing. You can brickwall and analogue recording as well by mastering it too high.

Wouldn't that be clipping? "Brickwalling" usually means use of compression and hard limiting.

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Reply #32 posted 08/17/23 12:12am

Allmusic.com gives this 2 out of 5 stars lol

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Reply #33 posted 08/17/23 12:41am

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funkbabyandthebabysitters said:
Allmusic.com gives this 2 out of 5 stars

the lowest their ratings go, sharing the honors with Come, N.E.W.S. and New Power Soul.

Well unless you count Xpectation, which was not deemed worthy of rating by amg. Like a lot of the fanbase maybe the instrumental phase "doesn't even count." Their efforts were not in vain, C-Note's been successfully obscucated from the general discogs at least.

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Reply #34 posted 08/17/23 5:52am

Mackopolis44

MattyJam said:

Been listening a lot to this album recently.

I have to admit, I have slept on it for the longest time. I always enjoyed the title track (surely one of his greatest album openers) and Soft & Wet, but pretty much ignored the rest of it, dismissing it as "primitive Prince." But lately, I've really gotten into it. "Baby" is a fine Prince ballad, "My Love Is Forever" has a nice Jacksons-esque vibe and album closer "I'm Yours" is a masterful blistering rock track, dare I say the closest Prince ever came to sounding metal in places (that guitar intro motif that he repeats later towards the end of the track is pure metal).
[Edited 8/10/23 5:34am]

No, but I've slept through listening to it a few times 😴😴

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Reply #35 posted 08/17/23 7:50am

WhisperingDandelions said:

JoeyCococo said:

Note, the Podcast - Mountains and the Sea, are going to release their review of For You this Sunday. So, i'm going to be listening. They are great.

I have to admit, never got into this album fully. I will however do so now. I have always loved I'm Yours, For You, Soft and Wet, Baby...absolutely loved Crazy You.....but the rest, not really.

To me, he was obviously planning his future. Within this album (very much I'm Yours) he shows you that he can do everything. He does all that on purpose to show how good he actually is. He also does the opening For YOu to show you he can sing....

He was making a very big announcement

Yeah, it's pretty clear through the For You ornamentation this kid is gonna be a force when he figures out an angle or approach that would make him stand out. And that's exactly what happened.

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Reply #36 posted 08/17/23 7:53am

WhisperingDandelions said:

JoeyCococo said:

Note, the Podcast - Mountains and the Sea, are going to release their review of For You this Sunday. So, i'm going to be listening. They are great.

I have to admit, never got into this album fully. I will however do so now. I have always loved I'm Yours, For You, Soft and Wet, Baby...absolutely loved Crazy You.....but the rest, not really.

To me, he was obviously planning his future. Within this album (very much I'm Yours) he shows you that he can do everything. He does all that on purpose to show how good he actually is. He also does the opening For YOu to show you he can sing....

He was making a very big announcement

Yeah, it's pretty clear through the For You ornamentation this kid is gonna be a force when he figures out an angle or approach that would make him stand out. And that's exactly what happened.

Yes...I try to picture an experienced 50 year old in 1978 hearing all the hype about a new kid called Prince. Of course, you scoff at the mere suggestion that he's the next Stevie Wonder but...then you hear the debut. What would I think at that point. How can you not be impressed? I think the weakest part of the album is some of the songwriting but to me, there are strong songs too....at the least, he does signals that he has all the pieces to become something huge....

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Reply #37 posted 08/17/23 9:44am

TrivialPursuit

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funkbabyandthebabysitters said:
Allmusic.com gives this 2 out of 5 stars

Sounds like they should be renamed AllBullshit.overit

Sorry, it's the Hodgkin's talking.

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Reply #38 posted 08/17/23 1:41pm

Their star ratings are a bit dubious a lot of the time

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Reply #39 posted 08/18/23 8:39am

TraSoul82

nayroo2002 said:

The bassist Prince vs. the guitarist Prince vs. the drummer Prince on "I'm Yours" still gives me goosebumps every time!

That song needs to be remixed so that Lead Vocalist Prince can finally get his shine. His background/harmony work is pretty well balanced, but that lead is buried in the mix. “Bambi” has the same issue. It’s like he was particularly shy about his early “falsetto screams.”

A total rework of the vocals on “For You” and “Prince” would be great, but those 2 songs irk me in particular. Infectious grooves with indiscernible lead vocals is quite literally a “bad mix.”

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Reply #40 posted 08/18/23 1:58pm

TrivialPursuit

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I went back to listen to "I'm Yours." I'd agree about the vocal enhancement needed on it. He just sinks into the background. I don't think he was insecure about his falsetto. I can't entertain that conjecture. It's all he sang in pretty much for 3 albums. Clearly he was more secure in that than his natural voice (which he's stated before).

"I'm Yours" is a fucking jam. The variety of this kid's talent at that age is just astounding.

"My Love is Forever" is pure late 70s R&B/soul bliss. The. "doo do do daa doo" at the beginning, the silky vocals, the subtle production, the chord changes. It reminds me a lot of "Ascension" from Maxwell. Just that super smooth quiet storm kinda style. Mid-tempo, you can groove or chill to it. It has the 70s R&B sensibility in the chord structure and lead-in to the chorus.

Sorry, it's the Hodgkin's talking.

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Reply #41 posted 08/18/23 7:35pm

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Everyone turns into a mixing expert when their precious vocals aren't the most overtly prominent aspect of the track.

Vocals didn't seem so maxed out in overall mixes until the digital age? It was one of my favorite parts of the Grundman SOTT remaster. Everyone was pining for him to crank the vocals like a pop star in the 2010s but it seems to be pretty metered.

Or fan bootleg remasters, those are always obnoxious with the cranked maximized vocals.

[Edited 8/18/23 19:39pm]

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Reply #42 posted 08/22/23 8:17am

TraSoul82

WhisperingDandelions said:

[Edited 8/18/23 19:39pm]

I’m far from a “mixing expert” but I did attend recording school for a couple of years. Mixing is a science of sorts that involves a lot more than a volume knob. EQ (equalization: frequency fine-tuning) plays a huge part. Another key part is panning. The placement and clarity of sound in a mix play a huge role in how separate sounds shine through without being louder than everything else.

Just think of a live orchestra. Instrument groups have specific sections for a reason. Cymbals splashing out of the oboe section would have a drastic impact on how things sound to the audience. The same would go for placing the violins in the back near the timpani drums.

When I said Prince was likely “shy” about his falsetto screams, it was mainly because I noticed that the same thing happened on “I’m Yours” and “Bambi”, where he’s putting energy into the hook. But I was being tongue-in-cheek with the term “shy”. You know how you might cringe when you heard your own voice from an answering machine back in the day? The same thing happens when people try to mix their own voice in music. So he might’ve buried his voice subconsciously because it cut through to him but not to the average listener.

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As for the album, I never understood why people don’t talk much about it. It’s great; and not just because of the “one-man-band” element. “Baby” is too smooth. It felt like he was compelled to give an ode to the music he grew up on and succeeded easily.

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Reply #43 posted 08/22/23 8:30am

TraSoul82 said:
nayroo2002 said:

The bassist Prince vs. the guitarist Prince vs. the drummer Prince on "I'm Yours" still gives me goosebumps every time!

That song needs to be remixed so that Lead Vocalist Prince can finally get his shine. His background/harmony work is pretty well balanced, but that lead is buried in the mix. “Bambi” has the same issue. It’s like he was particularly shy about his early “falsetto screams.” A total rework of the vocals on “For You” and “Prince” would be great, but those 2 songs irk me in particular. Infectious grooves with indiscernible lead vocals is quite literally a “bad mix.”

SO I listened to this album a few times in the last week. I also listned to the Mountains and Sea review of the 1st 5 songs ...they put that podcast out on Sunday. Man oh man was I wrong...the songs do grow on you.....and there is so much amazing stuff happening. I think overall, his voice is not mixed right...he needs to be boosted everywhere on this album.

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Reply #44 posted 08/22/23 8:43am

I should also add, I was wrong that the song writing was weak. If the voice was more clear, the album would have been totally different. During Just As Long As We're Together, which I was not able to get into at first, you can hear him start stretching out musically....you start to get a glimpse of what he would become...a monster player.

The Mountains and Sea podcast said it perfectly, of all of his skills, he opens with just his voice which is as distinct a skill as any. He made a promise to stay true right off the bat and I believe he did for much of his career. He waits until the final track to blow away the listener with his skills on all instruments...what he pulls of on I'm Yours is really amazing. Just think of being a older listener in 1978 listening to this new guy....of course, you have that 'impress me' stance... is it hype or real. Then you hear this guy start to go off on guitar....on bass guitar...on drums....it really is amazing..

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Reply #45 posted 08/22/23 10:59am

TraSoul82

JoeyCococo said:

If the voice was more clear, the album would have been totally different.

That part. I can only imagine that Prince’s attitude was something akin to “the past is the past.” Then when you add the crescendo into the mega-success of Purple Rain, it’s understandable that his first 2 albums would be collecting dust in the minds of the labels.

But there’s no good reason for “I’m Yours” and “Bambi” to not have been regular staples of rock radio for decades now, save for the fact that the vocal mixing makes them hard to enjoy. As I stated a few posts above, vocal mixing is best left to someone besides the vocalist, since our voices sound different to ourselves than others. Prince wasn’t a seasoned producer yet. And I can only imagine how emboldened he was once he landed the contact he wanted.

Someone has the master recordings. Anyone could commission remasters of “For You” and “Prince” without a big rollout or much cost (Physical releases could be a limited [expensive] box set option for the few would really need them). I can’t see how it would hurt anything. But, alas, I think they’ve all but been forgotten. His estate could use some actual fans in higher positions.

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Reply #46 posted 08/22/23 5:30pm

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The low-mixed vocals fit what his approach seemed to be with the first two albums.

He was clearly hesitant to go "full Prince." The albums are very reserved/restrained, almost intentionally so, like he didn't want to freak anybody out--which of course in Prince's world of opposite day eventually he'd adopt the complete opposite philosophy and began wanting to freak everybody out.

Honestly a lot of the 80s stuff the vocals are a little too high in the mix, sometimes his yelps and screams catch me off guard, but I recognize most people kind of attach themselves to the vocals the most out of any other "instrument" in popular music, so they generally like vocals maxed out.

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