prettyman is a joke song.

its like an in joke from prince to morris day and james brown and fans who know he wrote all the time songs and invented the morris day persona.

i dont think its a very good joke fwiw.

i was thinking last night, would Arrogance and/or The Flow class as a novelty song? I love The Flow so much to the point it was in my top 20 played songs of my Spotify Wrapped 2020 (for real), but still think those two songs have a whole different attitude and feel on the Symbol album. Other songs which come to mind are those weird one-off releases like PFunk, Glass Cutter, Cybersingle, etc. Not that I don't like them, but again, have a whole different vibe to them.

FrankieCoco1 said:

I think we should celebrate some of these ‘novelty’ songs, F.U.N.K. is a fantastic listen. Movie Star, the same. Perhaps even The War fits in there. I’m just glad Prince wasn’t bothered about being labelled, this or that, and recorded whatever was in his head at the time. Yeah, the occasional miss, but at least 90% top tunes.

Oh I definitely celebrate them. As previously mentioned, I've had Batdance on repeat so much lately. And I should really play/listen to PFunk some more. I think the only bad song Prince ever did is Purple & Gold - which is obviously my opinion. That's the only song of his you'll never catch me playing willingly

the more i listen to this album, the more i want to know what else he had in the vault around this time

lemon crush is so good i dont even care about the dumbness of the jobba-robba line

the grooves on batman are some of his very best i think

electric chair is like he was listening to superstition

vicki waiting is like sequel to ballad of dorothy parker

arms of orion is one of his all time great big epic pop ballads

partyman is just perfect pretty much

i like the fact the future criticises hollywood on an album for a big hollywood movie

Yes, RJ.

Methinks some folks have definately missed the point you made.

The point that your point is better illustrated than my point is the point i was just pointing out.

i hope everyone gets the point.

nayroo2002 said:

And so by the Wikipedia cut and paste, Batdance is not a novelty song.

RJOrion said:

nayroo2002 said:

Yes, RJ.

Methinks some folks have definately missed the point you made.

The point that your point is better illustrated than my point is the point i was just pointing out.

i hope everyone gets the point.

Point well taken

novelty or not, the fact is that most of the songs dont really work in the film.

the film would have been better had they just been allowed to use princes old songs that burton used originally and had an 'inspired by the film' soundtrack by prince to go with it.

its still a good album, just not one that works with the film that well.

RJOrion said:

The whole track is built around the 1960s Adam West Batman theme, the most campy/"novelty" Batman interpretation in history.

RJOrion said:

Novelty song Type of music A novelty song is a type of song built upon some form of novel concept, such as a gimmick, a piece of humor, or a sample of popular culture. Novelty songs partially overlap with comedy songs, which are more explicitly based on humor, and with musical parody, especially when the novel gimmick is another popular song.

IanRG said:

And so by the Wikipedia cut and paste, Batdance is not a novelty song.

By this definition, Batman is the definitive Prince novelty track.

-Novel concept/gimmick: house-based movie dialogue snippet collage/house mix

-Humor: throughout in placement of dialogue samples interacting with the beat. "Vicky Vale--" "I Love--""Batmaaaan"

-Sample of popular culture/"novel gimmick of another popular song": His opening riff is an interpolation of the 60s Batman theme, a show considered to be a 1960s novelty, loaded with gimmicks, and kitsch/camp; rife with intentional humor. He also interpolates the vocal chorus/hook of the theme with his own vocal "Batmaaaannn"s.
-"Musical parody"/novel gimmick: The 1989 Batman movie itself is like the polar opposite of an uptempo dance rave or the 1960s Adam West Batman show.

[Edited 7/28/23 18:33pm]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

novelty or not, the fact is that most of the songs dont really work in the film.

the film would have been better had they just been allowed to use princes old songs that burton used originally and had an 'inspired by the film' soundtrack by prince to go with it.

its still a good album, just not one that works with the film that well.

Didn't they actually want that and Prince decided to be extra and was like "Nah. How 'bout a whole record of brand new songs for you, WB" as he crosses "Anna Waiting" off his lyric sheet and writes "Vicki Waiting, written by Batman" next to it?

It's a solid collection of Prince random Prince tracks on shuffle. As a "great Prince album" or "great soundtrack" is just seems like inherently a failure by how disjointed and lacking of concept the overall collection of songs were--particularly when he had a whole concept showed to him in workprints, visited the set.... Just that iconic Tim Burton Batman logo itself is pure concept, and the Prince Batman album is just nothing remotely like what movieworld that project was going for.

And the wild thing is both Prince fans and 89 Batman fans rarely ever want to acknowledge how ill-fitting it is. It's kind of a testament to his overall legacy that a Prince-on-autopilot shuffle-mix phoned-in sampler of his abilities is quite genuinely, honestly beloved as one of the "great soundtracks of all time" by many.... even if really it isn't.

Can't fully blame our guy, though. He probably showed up the set all ready to soak in the Burton vision, notepad in his jacket--then..

WhisperingDandelions said:

The whole track is built around the 1960s Adam West Batman theme, the most campy/"novelty" Batman interpretation in history.

RJOrion said:

Novelty song Type of music A novelty song is a type of song built upon some form of novel concept, such as a gimmick, a piece of humor, or a sample of popular culture. Novelty songs partially overlap with comedy songs, which are more explicitly based on humor, and with musical parody, especially when the novel gimmick is another popular song.

IanRG said:

And so by the Wikipedia cut and paste, Batdance is not a novelty song.

By this definition, Batman is the definitive Prince novelty track.

-Novel concept/gimmick: house-based movie dialogue snippet collage/house mix

-Humor: throughout in placement of dialogue samples interacting with the beat. "Vicky Vale--" "I Love--""Batmaaaan"

-Sample of popular culture/"novel gimmick of another popular song": His opening riff is an interpolation of the 60s Batman theme, a show considered to be a 1960s novelty, loaded with gimmicks, and kitsch/camp; rife with intentional humor. He also interpolates the vocal chorus/hook of the theme with his own vocal "Batmaaaannn"s.
-"Musical parody"/novel gimmick: The 1989 Batman movie itself is like the polar opposite of an uptempo dance rave or the 1960s Adam West Batman show.

[Edited 7/28/23 18:33pm]

Prince did not do a song called Batman, but I will assume you mean Batdance.

So by the points:

- The whole track is NOT built around the Adam West Batman theme music at all - It briefly references the 1960's theme at the beginning, but most of it is based on the 1980s movie and the music Prince put on his Batman Album.

- It is not a novel concept or gimmick song: It is an overture of the themes in music Prince included on the Batman album with snippets of dialogue from that movie. This argument would make every overture a novelty song, which renders the definition useless.

- Humour: Is the mere placement of dialogue from the movie humourous? Many of the lines are memorable quotes from the movie but not necessarily humourous. For example "Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight, I always ask that of all my prey" is reference to what Bruce Wayne as boy heard the person who he saw kill his parent say to them just before killing them - Hardly a humourous line - This is the key point in his life that made him the obsessed and driven vigilante he became. Nothing like this would ever be said in Adam West's version.

- It is NOT a sample of pop culture just because it makes a reference to Batman - It is music for a Batman movie that references the Batman TV show music. This argument would make every Star Wars movie, TV and streaming series after the first movie into being a novelty song.

- The Batman movie being the polar opposite of the camp, up beat 1960's TV show at best makes it the polar opposite of a parody. As Batdance is based on music for the opposite of a parody after its initial short reference to the TV show means it is not a parody, to borrow a term, the song is also the polar opposite of a parody.

[Edited 7/29/23 1:28am]

IanRG said:

Prince did not do a song called Batman, but I will assume you mean Batdance.

So by the points:

- The whole track is NOT built around the Adam West Batman theme music at all - It briefly references the 1960's theme at the beginning, but most of it is based on the 1980s movie and the music Prince put on his Batman Album.

- It is not a novel concept or gimmick song: It is an overture of the themes in music Prince included on the Batman album with snippets of dialogue from that movie. This argument would make every overture a novelty song, which renders the definition useless.

- Humour: Is the mere placement of dialogue from the movie humourous? Many of the lines are memorable quotes from the movie but not necessarily humourous. For example "Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight, I always ask that of all my prey" is reference to what Bruce Wayne as boy heard the person who he saw kill his parent say to them just before killing them - Hardly a humourous line - This is the key point in his life that made him the obsessed and driven vigilante he became. Nothing like this would ever be said in Adam West's version.

- It is NOT a sample of pop culture just because it makes a reference to Batman - It is music for a Batman movie that references the Batman TV show music. This argument would make every Star Wars movie, TV and streaming series after the first movie into being a novelty song.

- The Batman movie being the polar opposite of the camp, up beat 1960's TV show at best makes it the polar opposite of a parody. As Batdance is based on music for the opposite of a parody after its initial short reference to the TV show means it is not a parody, to borrow a term, the song is also the polar opposite of a parody.

[Edited 7/29/23 1:28am]

"overture", Joker's catchphrase, blah blah blah. Church it up and dramatize however you may, a track like "Batdance" would never ever appear in Burton's Batworld unless it was as a parody or joke. Uptempo purple techno does not fit the tone or "serious"-ness of the movie itself, there is no scene in the film where this song would fit and not turn the movie into a joke. Something like Sioxie and the Banshees "Face to Face", used in Burton's sequel, or even Seal's "Kiss from a Rose" or Smashing Pumpkin's "The End Is the Beginning Is the End" are examples of at least trying to match and/or be respectful to the tone of the source material.

This part where you try and reframe "Batdance" as this dark dramatic take by sampling a little Joker line seems like a parody in and of itself. It's like trying to re-frame "Let's Go Crazy" or "1999" as goth because they reference "the afterworld."

Reality is the only versions of the Batworld that "Batdance" could feasibly be played in and not resemble novelty are the Joel Schumacher Mr. Freeze Batman or the OG 60s Batman.

Adam West would totally cut a rug and "Batussi" the F outta "Batdance":

He's literally the model for the backing dancers in the Prince music video.

[Edited 7/29/23 4:27am]

WhisperingDandelions said:

IanRG said:

Prince did not do a song called Batman, but I will assume you mean Batdance.

So by the points:

- The whole track is NOT built around the Adam West Batman theme music at all - It briefly references the 1960's theme at the beginning, but most of it is based on the 1980s movie and the music Prince put on his Batman Album.

- It is not a novel concept or gimmick song: It is an overture of the themes in music Prince included on the Batman album with snippets of dialogue from that movie. This argument would make every overture a novelty song, which renders the definition useless.

- Humour: Is the mere placement of dialogue from the movie humourous? Many of the lines are memorable quotes from the movie but not necessarily humourous. For example "Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight, I always ask that of all my prey" is reference to what Bruce Wayne as boy heard the person who he saw kill his parent say to them just before killing them - Hardly a humourous line - This is the key point in his life that made him the obsessed and driven vigilante he became. Nothing like this would ever be said in Adam West's version.

- It is NOT a sample of pop culture just because it makes a reference to Batman - It is music for a Batman movie that references the Batman TV show music. This argument would make every Star Wars movie, TV and streaming series after the first movie into being a novelty song.

- The Batman movie being the polar opposite of the camp, up beat 1960's TV show at best makes it the polar opposite of a parody. As Batdance is based on music for the opposite of a parody after its initial short reference to the TV show means it is not a parody, to borrow a term, the song is also the polar opposite of a parody.

[Edited 7/29/23 1:28am]

"overture", Joker's catchphrase, blah blah blah. Church it up and dramatize however you may, a track like "Batdance" would never ever appear in Burton's Batworld unless it was as a parody or joke. Uptempo purple techno does not fit the tone or "serious"-ness of the movie itself, there is no scene in the film where this song would fit and not turn the movie into a joke. Something like Sioxie and the Banshees "Face to Face", used in Burton's sequel, or even Seal's "Kiss from a Rose" or Smashing Pumpkin's "The End Is the Beginning Is the End" are examples of at least trying to match and/or be respectful to the tone of the source material.

This part where you try and reframe "Batdance" as this dark dramatic take by sampling a little Joker line seems like a parody in and of itself. It's like trying to re-frame "Let's Go Crazy" or "1999" as goth because they reference "the afterworld."

Reality is the only versions of the Batworld that "Batdance" could feasibly be played in and not resemble novelty are the Joel Schumacher Mr. Freeze Batman or the OG 60s Batman.

Adam West would totally cut a rug and "Batussi" the F outta "Batdance":

He's literally the model for the backing dancers in the Prince music video.

[Edited 7/29/23 4:27am]

Batdance was NOT meant for the movie. By the time Batdance was added, the album was only songs inspired by the movie and not much of what Prince used in the album was used in the movie. This had already been determined before Batdance was created. No one was saying that it was for the movie.

The video is not the song.

Despite your claim that it was humorous: Listen to the music - There is virtually none of the TV Batman theme in it because it mostly the Future and Electric Chair - two dark Burtonesque songs. Listen to the lyrics and the movie samples - There is very little humor in the words because they are literally from Burton's batworld and NOT Adam West's camp depiction nor Joel Shumacher's disasters.

It is not just the taunting by Jack Napier before he killed Bruce's parents in front of him. Show one line that is humorous and a not just a direct take from Burton's batworld - Hint: You can't because what you claimed is in the song is simply not there.

[Edited 7/30/23 2:18am]

JorisE73 said:

I think Batdance would have worked better than Scandalous during the end credits.

Yes

Ironically, the song on the album that is most like a novelty song is Partyman.

Given our discussion, this is ironic because the Burton movie version using the song is much more like an Adam Westesque scene than the song's video clip. Indeed it is one of the most Adam Westesque scenes in the whole movie.