I wonder, given Flyte Times' string of hit records - and a joint (if maybe fraught) joint history - do you think Prince would have ever agreed to let Jam & Lewis join him on production tasks?

I know it didn't happen, but did they cross paths often in Minneapolis ? Jammed together? Was there some interaction during The Time's Pandomenium sessions? Or did Jam & Lewis hold a long-term grudge towards Prince for firing them from The Time? Anybody in the know?

Jam n Lewis hired other musicians.

Prince hired himself.

https://www.youtube.com/w...R4utgYvHdY

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At 16:10 he talks about getting fired by Prince from The Time.

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At 20:48 he tells about how they almost got involved in Purple Rain (the movie).

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At 28:05 he talks about the lessons he learned from Prince (including a great anecdote about rehearsing "777-9311").

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At 32:18 he talks about how Prince wanted them to produce him.

nayroo2002 said:

Jimmy Jam has talked about this a lot in recent years. How youv'e not heard about it is sort of a narrow view.

Prince brought up to Jimmy about producing him and what Flyte Tyme would do, etc. Jimmy had Terry had definite ideas and it would've been fucking spectacular. We're not talking some Human Lauge rehash either.

RJOrion said:

Princeland would've been better if he made them head staff producers at Paisley, but honestly in terms of their career Prince firing them was the best thing that could have ever happened to them.

If he did adapt to Paisley the records would still be mostly obscure due to lack of promotion and they would have had to start all over when Paisley Park Records was closed.

SoulAlive said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

he always seemed to think himself above jam and lewis, or if not above, i think he would mightve seen it as 'retreating' to old friends.

so i doubt this would have happened.

plus, with all respect to them, they kinda stopped being hitmakers a while back.

prince was more into working with younger talent as he got older.

[Edited 7/15/23 6:38am]

RJOrion said:

SoulAlive said:

I totally agree.Many of those Paisley Park artists could have used Jam and Lewis tracks on their album.I imagine a song like “Human” being recorded by the Family,for example.

Word...or, "If It Isnt Love" (New Edition) done by The Time...or "I Didnt Mean To Turn You On" (Cherelle) by Jill Jones...the ideas are endless

yes! "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" would have been a perfect single for Jill.Paisley Park Records could have been the Motown of the 80s.

Krid said:

TrivialPursuit said:

bizzie said:

https://www.youtube.com/w...R4utgYvHdY

.

At 16:10 he talks about getting fired by Prince from The Time.

.

At 20:48 he tells about how they almost got involved in Purple Rain (the movie).

.

At 28:05 he talks about the lessons he learned from Prince (including a great anecdote about rehearsing "777-9311").

.

At 32:18 he talks about how Prince wanted them to produce him.

All those notes and I read into things this way:

a) Prince from The Time. What part did Prince play WITH "The Time?" What don't I know.

b) I believe they were always involved, as all together now they are a collective UNIT.

c) Prince himself stated he liked to teach AND to learn.

d) Prince wanted them SO THAT he could produce him. He was as influenced by them as they were by him. Thinking of the song lyric "I want you to want me".

luv2tha99s said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Jimmy Jam has talked about this a lot in recent years. How youv'e not heard about it is sort of a narrow view.

Prince brought up to Jimmy about producing him and what Flyte Tyme would do, etc. Jimmy had Terry had definite ideas and it would've been fucking spectacular. We're not talking some Human Lauge rehash either.

Shut yo mouth foo. HUMAN and I NEED YOUR LOVING shred.

You're cute, but no one was dissing Human League. I quite love them actually. "Fascination" is one of my all-time favorite songs.

I think I remember a story way back when that JJ & TL suggested Love Would Never Do Without You be a duet with Janet Jackson and Prince. I could be making that up...but I swear I remember hearing it somewhere (probably here!).

RJOrion said:

The biggest mistake of Prince's career was firing Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis and not incorporating their songwriting and production talents into his own (and others') music

Actually, the best move Prince did was firing Jam & Lewis.

And then again, Prince wanted to take Lewis back, but not Jam (for the PR movie), but Lewis didn't want to go back without Jam.

Prince never was a guy for incorporating anything from anyone in his earlier days (and actually later more or less too), unless he bluntly stole something, remember?.

So it was a blessing for being out of the Prince camp in the early days for both Jam & Lewis.

They did what they did, proof is the fact they are the third all time best producers when itcomes to most produced mateiral out there. Jam said, George Martin and Elvis' producer did better. Not bad for being fired by good old purple prick Prince. Jam said that Prince somehow must've known they were ready to go.

Lateron when they all got older, and time went by on the old issues, they could've worked together, Jam explicitely told this. But it never happened.

Prince remained that unable to let go kind of rooster on top of (t)his purple (ex-)chicken(s) stall.

So Prince kinda missed out willingly on working with them.

That's how i see it imho.

TrivialPursuit said:

Jimmy Jam has talked about this a lot in recent years. How youv'e not heard about it is sort of a narrow view.

Prince brought up to Jimmy about producing him and what Flyte Tyme would do, etc. Jimmy had Terry had definite ideas and it would've been fucking spectacular. We're not talking some Human Lauge rehash either.

I don't know if it would've been fucking spectacular though...

Just try to put big grown media ego's together... no matter if time healed old wounds or not...

Competition always would've ben there. And if the outcome could be spectacular... i doubt it.

-

Luckily 'Scream' was great. Imagine Prince doing that song, as a duet with Janet.

He would not approve of the typical Jam&Lewis beat for sure. ))) Just joking here.. what the fuck do i know about a beat. But that beat, to me, doesn't sound very Prince-ish. Too Jackson-ish.

RJOrion said:

SoulAlive said:

I totally agree.Many of those Paisley Park artists could have used Jam and Lewis tracks on their album.I imagine a song like “Human” being recorded by the Family,for example.

Word...or, "If It Isnt Love" (New Edition) done by The Time...or "Didnt Mean To Turn You On" (Sherelle) by Jill Jones...the ideas are endless

Or Prince singing: ''(I'm Only) Human'' by The Human League...

Prince had a sound that J&L did not. I cant see it but I would have loved checking out what they came up with. IMO Prince was a 1 of 1, I enjoy the creation of J&M but I dont see a collab w Prince working out.

I'm not sure what tracks they wrote or produced with that Time reunion album 4 example, but IMO that album was awful from beginning 2 end.

As much as i love J&L there productions sound dated and were awesome for there time and fit perfectly in there time.

Poplife88 said:

I think I remember a story way back when that JJ & TL suggested Love Would Never Do Without You be a duet with Janet Jackson and Prince. I could be making that up...but I swear I remember hearing it somewhere (probably here!).

Yes. That's why Janet sings the first verse in a lower register, because it was meant to be his.

Jam & Lewis were ALSO in nTalks 2 Work w/Rick James b4 He Passed. Now THAT would have been FIRE!! I Remember Them Poking Fun at Slick Rick on a Remix of "You were Meant To Be My Lady (Not My Girl)' by Alexander O'Neal......

Vannormal said:

I don't know if it would've been fucking spectacular though...

Just try to put big grown media ego's together... no matter if time healed old wounds or not...

Competition always would've ben there. And if the outcome could be spectacular... i doubt it.

-

Luckily 'Scream' was great. Imagine Prince doing that song, as a duet with Janet.

He would not approve of the typical Jam&Lewis beat for sure. ))) Just joking here.. what the fuck do i know about a beat. But that beat, to me, doesn't sound very Prince-ish. Too Jackson-ish.

But the great thing about Jam & Lewis is they adapt to the people they work with. Usher stuff doesn't sound like TLC's song, nor does Human League sound like "Scream." Sure, they have a sound, but it's also malleable and adaptable.

Frankly, I think J&L would've been the perfect 'outside' source to produce him, because they were there in the formation of the sound, on that scene in Minneapolis. It's not like LaFace trying to produce him (which wouldn't have been horrible either, frankly).

These guys aren't just GarageBand wannabes. They're pros and they have the legacy to prove it. So to produce Prince really is the perfect fit. I don't think he'd come out sounding like SOS Band or something.

TrivialPursuit said:

Vannormal said:

I don't know if it would've been fucking spectacular though...

Just try to put big grown media ego's together... no matter if time healed old wounds or not...

Competition always would've ben there. And if the outcome could be spectacular... i doubt it.

-

Luckily 'Scream' was great. Imagine Prince doing that song, as a duet with Janet.

He would not approve of the typical Jam&Lewis beat for sure. ))) Just joking here.. what the fuck do i know about a beat. But that beat, to me, doesn't sound very Prince-ish. Too Jackson-ish.

But the great thing about Jam & Lewis is they adapt to the people they work with. Usher stuff doesn't sound like TLC's song, nor does Human League sound like "Scream." Sure, they have a sound, but it's also malleable and adaptable.

Frankly, I think J&L would've been the perfect 'outside' source to produce him, because they were there in the formation of the sound, on that scene in Minneapolis. It's not like LaFace trying to produce him (which wouldn't have been horrible either, frankly).

These guys aren't just GarageBand wannabes. They're pros and they have the legacy to prove it. So to produce Prince really is the perfect fit. I don't think he'd come out sounding like SOS Band or something.

Come to think of it, i looooooooove The S.O.S. Band.

woogiebear said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Vannormal said:

I don't know if it would've been fucking spectacular though...

Just try to put big grown media ego's together... no matter if time healed old wounds or not...

Competition always would've ben there. And if the outcome could be spectacular... i doubt it.

-

Luckily 'Scream' was great. Imagine Prince doing that song, as a duet with Janet.

He would not approve of the typical Jam&Lewis beat for sure. ))) Just joking here.. what the fuck do i know about a beat. But that beat, to me, doesn't sound very Prince-ish. Too Jackson-ish.

But the great thing about Jam & Lewis is they adapt to the people they work with. Usher stuff doesn't sound like TLC's song, nor does Human League sound like "Scream." Sure, they have a sound, but it's also malleable and adaptable.

Frankly, I think J&L would've been the perfect 'outside' source to produce him, because they were there in the formation of the sound, on that scene in Minneapolis. It's not like LaFace trying to produce him (which wouldn't have been horrible either, frankly).

These guys aren't just GarageBand wannabes. They're pros and they have the legacy to prove it. So to produce Prince really is the perfect fit. I don't think he'd come out sounding like SOS Band or something.

Another example of Jam & Lewis adpating to the project is The Time's Pandemonium. The songs they contributed mesh very well with Prince's. This is one reason why it's my favorite Time album--the guys on the cover actually play on the songs for a change.

sexton said:

Another example of Jam & Lewis adpating to the project is The Time's Pandemonium. The songs they contributed mesh very well with Prince's. This is one reason why it's my favorite Time album--the guys on the cover actually play on the songs for a change.

I'd agree. It's a fair balance between Prince and J&L and Jesse on there.

For me, though, it runs neck 'n neck with Condensate because that's 100% them, and it's such a good damn album. Maybe a tad long, but just more to get through and enjoy. It's 67 minutes, but feels like a full 80.