In the Celebration thread/sticky, @Laytonian linked to an MPLS Star Tribune article by Jon Bream that says the following:

"On Twitter, [Donny] English speculated that the real answer is "internal strife" in the Prince Legacy whereas all concert footage is on hold until after the contracted Netflix documentary."

While Bream is clearly attributing the "internal strife" speculation to English, it's not clear to me whether the qualifying clause about Netflix is also strictly from English or if it's Breams own elaboration on Prince Legacy. The basic rules of English allow for either interpretation.

Nevertheless, this is the first time I've seen any reference to the Nexflix documentary holding up releases outside of fan rumors/specutlation on this forum.

Notice that Bream's description of Netflix power is much more narrow and logical than what people have been claiming in Org posts. It's not that Netflix has right of first refusal over any music. Their exclusive rights apply only concert footage. That makes far more sense. And that could hold up a SDE if the Estate wants to include a blu-ray/dvd in the package.

https://m.startribune.com...600281951/

Just read Donny English's Twitter thread. Which I already posted in an easy to read format @ https://prince.org/msg/7/...?&pg=4 a week ago.

lurker316 said:

In the Celebration thread/sticky, @Laytonian linked to an MPLS Star Tribune article by Jon Bream that says the following:

"On Twitter, [Donny] English speculated that the real answer is "internal strife" in the Prince Legacy whereas all concert footage is on hold until after the contracted Netflix documentary."

While Bream is clearly attributing the "internal strife" speculation to English, it's not clear to me whether the qualifying clause about Netflix is also strictly from English or if it's Breams own elaboration on Prince Legacy. The basic rules of English allow for either interpretation.

Nevertheless, this is the first time I've seen any reference to the Nexflix documentary holding up releases outside of fan rumors/specutlation on this forum.

Notice that Bream's description of Netflix power is much more narrow and logical than what people have been claiming in Org posts. It's not that Netflix has right of first refusal over any music. Their exclusive rights apply only concert footage. That makes far more sense. And that could hold up a SDE if the Estate wants to include a blu-ray/dvd in the package.

https://m.startribune.com...600281951/

And that's the case for the Parade SDE according to rumours...

lurker316 said:

MIRvmn1 said:

MIRvmn1 said:

lurker316 said:

In the Celebration thread/sticky, @Laytonian linked to an MPLS Star Tribune article by Jon Bream that says the following:

"On Twitter, [Donny] English speculated that the real answer is "internal strife" in the Prince Legacy whereas all concert footage is on hold until after the contracted Netflix documentary."

While Bream is clearly attributing the "internal strife" speculation to English, it's not clear to me whether the qualifying clause about Netflix is also strictly from English or if it's Breams own elaboration on Prince Legacy. The basic rules of English allow for either interpretation.

Nevertheless, this is the first time I've seen any reference to the Nexflix documentary holding up releases outside of fan rumors/specutlation on this forum.

Notice that Bream's description of Netflix power is much more narrow and logical than what people have been claiming in Org posts. It's not that Netflix has right of first refusal over any music. Their exclusive rights apply only concert footage. That makes far more sense. And that could hold up a SDE if the Estate wants to include a blu-ray/dvd in the package.

https://m.startribune.com...600281951/

If it's really that important for the estate to include concert footage, then just give us a vault album in the meantime until they can actually release a new SDE. There's no reason to hold back unreleased music anymore.

Or they could even do a music-only SDE and release the concert as a standalone DVD in the future. They certainly didn't hesitate to rehash the Syracuse show as a standalone after it was already released with the Purple Rain Deluxe several years ago.

Why is this a thread when there is already a thread?

happyshopper said:

MIRvmn1 said:

If it's really that important for the estate to include concert footage, then just give us a vault album in the meantime until they can actually release a new SDE. There's no reason to hold back unreleased music anymore.

The issue is that there’s months of work in the mastering, and packaging, and the cost. These SDEs are ready go, but. Any be released until the “exclusive” footage is first used by Netflix.

Yes, that's the premise of this thread. But it doesn't have to be the case. They don't have to include a video in the SDE. They could release a music only version and then sell the concert as standalone later one. Fans would complain, but the Estate would make more money that way.

nayroo2002 said:

Why is this a thread when there is already a thread?

There are some older threads on the Netflix documentary's impact on the SDEs, but I'm not aware of any active threads on this topic.

lurker316 said:

happyshopper said:

lurker316 said:

Yes, that's the premise of this thread. But it doesn't have to be the case. They don't have to include a video in the SDE. They could release a music only version and then sell the concert as standalone later one. Fans would complain, but the Estate would make more money that way.

They can’t just take out the DVD and leave the packaging! Or reprint all the packaging.

Okay, then what are they supposed to do? Sit around and release nothing while waiting for Netflix to sort their shit out with a documentary that may never even get finished? I mean, that's pretty much what they're doing already, but I'd rather them release something than nothing at all

bozojones said:

I've given up any anticipation or hope for a documentary that will do him justice, or any subsequent SDE, etc. Spicer, Londell - all those cats claiming they own this or that is a power play to their small dicks. Ain't got shit to do with Prince or his legacy. How the fuck is Spicer gonna own a man's legacy??? Fuck all the way off. I don't even care about a Netflix doc at this point. If it happens, goodie goodie. If it doesn't - told ya so.

lurker316 said:

muleFunk said:

lurker316 said:

It seems that you missed all of this discussion back in 2017 when the Prince Documentary Series was announced. It was announced then that Netflix had the right of first refusal in regards to Concert materials and other material that they wanted to include. This occurred after WB put dibs on 1999 and SOTT materials. Now why didn't someone put in a clause that would render Netflix hold null and void if they didn't produce this work within a time frame is a mystery.

I don't remember the original announcement, but I have seen plenty subsequent references to this issue, and most of those mischaracterize and overstate Netfix's power. I've read stuff here on the Org claiming Netflix has right of first refusal over any music, or over anything from the vault. But this makes it clear that's not true. It's just concert footage. With that being the case, I say the Estate should release SDEs without a dvd/blu-ray. It will suck, but better than nothing.

With regard to your second point, I totally agree. Why would the Estate have agreed to a contract that didn't have a time limit?

[Edited 6/22/23 5:17am]

I think Jim Beam is holding up releases if the Estate are signing circa-1952 fresh-off-the-bus contracts for a ham sandwich like this thread implies.

also

happyshopper said:

It’s the estate themselves delaying the documentary, because it’s too negative and they don’t like it.

Has the specifics on this come out yet? Too much teenage Mayte?

So much Prince mythos is right on the teeter-totter borderline edge of guaranteed-cancel culture bait that they really gotta start thinking these deals out from all angles. Even Prince fans themselves can get themselves a little too tipsy off the Purple Kool-Aid where they start thinking he's untouchable by these gen-Z tik-tokers just looking for a reason to knock Prince down a peg for daring to not have singalongs they've had overplayed since the womb like MJ.

[Edited 6/23/23 5:15am]

WhisperingDandelions said:

also

happyshopper said:

It’s the estate themselves delaying the documentary, because it’s too negative and they don’t like it.

Has the specifics on this come out yet? Too much teenage Mayte?

So much Prince mythos is right on the teeter-totter borderline edge of guaranteed-cancel culture bait that they really gotta start thinking these deals out from all angles. Even Prince fans themselves can get themselves a little too tipsy off the Purple Kool-Aid where they start thinking he's untouchable by these gen-Z tik-tokers just looking for a reason to knock Prince down a peg for daring to not have singalongs they've had overplayed since the womb like MJ.

[Edited 6/23/23 5:15am]

I can promise you Prince isn't going to get "cancelled". Bowie is still celebrated by young and old folks alike despite his own flaws and issues. Chris Brown still has a thriving career today despite being a piece of shit that violently beats women without remorse. Morgan Wallen got caught throwing the N-word around on camera and still tops the charts nowadays regardless.

You're severely overestimating how much of an impact so-called "cancel culture" has on the public perception of a celebrity nowadays. A small pocket of young folks online might criticize Prince for his relationship with Mayte if they happen to hear about it (and rightfully so, Prince was real skeezy for hooking up with a teenage girl) but it's not going to have any significant impact on Prince's legacy. People will continue to praise the man for being a music legend and fashion icon. Anything lesser than being a Cosby or Weinstein-level monster will blow over just like it does for everyone else.

Are people really saying that there are boxes of completed Parade SDEs sitting around somewhere?

And in the entire production process, there's been no leaked artwork or tracks or even tracklists?

ggriffin said:

bozojones said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

also

Has the specifics on this come out yet? Too much teenage Mayte?

So much Prince mythos is right on the teeter-totter borderline edge of guaranteed-cancel culture bait that they really gotta start thinking these deals out from all angles. Even Prince fans themselves can get themselves a little too tipsy off the Purple Kool-Aid where they start thinking he's untouchable by these gen-Z tik-tokers just looking for a reason to knock Prince down a peg for daring to not have singalongs they've had overplayed since the womb like MJ.

[Edited 6/23/23 5:15am]

I can promise you Prince isn't going to get "cancelled". Bowie is still celebrated by young and old folks alike despite his own flaws and issues. Chris Brown still has a thriving career today despite being a piece of shit that violently beats women without remorse. Morgan Wallen got caught throwing the N-word around on camera and still tops the charts nowadays regardless.

You're severely overestimating how much of an impact so-called "cancel culture" has on the public perception of a celebrity nowadays. A small pocket of young folks online might criticize Prince for his relationship with Mayte if they happen to hear about it (and rightfully so, Prince was real skeezy for hooking up with a teenage girl) but it's not going to have any significant impact on Prince's legacy. People will continue to praise the man for being a music legend and fashion icon. Anything lesser than being a Cosby or Weinstein-level monster will blow over just like it does for everyone else.

This post did nothing to counterpoint my contention that Prince fans get a weeee bit too cocky thinking he's untouchable because he's untouchable to us.

Even your references, do Gen-Z know much about Harvey Weinstein? That kind of get swept under the rug. He's hardly a household name unless your household lives on the internet.

R. Kelly didn't blow over. Winn Butler from the Arcade Fire hasn't blown over. Louie C.K., haven't heard from him in a while. Haven't seen Kevin Spacey in a movie in a minute. Woody Allen's landmark 50th film is entirely in french and will only be released in France. "Kramer" Michael Richards, even with the rest of the Seinfeld cast maintaining some semblance of relevency, he's straight up ignored. And these are just freestyles, a google search would yield more.

But yeah, certain names beloved to a certain point in the mainstream are uncancellable. J.K. Rowling would be a good example. I'd even throw MJ in there. Beyonce was getting dragged the other day, she's another. You sorely over-estimate the general public's fandom of Prince if you include him in there.

ggriffin said:

Are people really saying that there are boxes of completed Parade SDEs sitting around somewhere?

And in the entire production process, there's been no leaked artwork or tracks or even tracklists?

Yes, there are leaked photos of stacks of albums ready to go. I believe they were posted here but removed.

lurker316 said:

bozojones said:

lurker316 said:

Yes, there are leaked photos of stacks of albums ready to go. I believe they were posted here but removed.

Leaked photos of Parade SDE? I know there were photos of standard D&P and Symbol reissues but I never heard anything about Parade photos...

Sorry, I was referring to D&P, not Parade.

lurker316 said: