ShellyMcG said:

rap said:

From memory, this was dismissed by Bobby Z, who was there.

Yeah that sounds a bit far fetched. I've seen stories about Prince treating his bandmates and even his wife pretty terribly but I can't imagine him out there trying to murder Michael Jackson. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

Have you seen that James Brown Grammy party video?

Whether he seriously contemplated murder, was throwing a bit of a Diva tantrum, or absolutely none of the above, one thing is certain: that night had a big enough impact on him where he never ever went another waking moment of his life not 100% ready to dominate the stage at any moment in any scenario. Nobody ever caught Prince with his eyes off the prize ever again, because of this night.

MrSharon said:

What about "Morphine"?

One of Mikey's few true masterpieces. He out NIN'd NIN with that one.

[Edited 2/20/23 1:45am]

ShellyMcG said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

Let's say this was true, it doesn't sound like he was trying to "murder" anyone but more like trying to intimidate him.

Trying to run someone down in your car sounds like attempted murder to me. But even if it was just for intimidation, I still don't see Prince doing something like that. It's too out of character. Sounds like BS.

eh playing the bass in MJ's face at a live concert seems "out of character" by certain interpretations, too. He was surely humiliated on the night of James Brown's Grammy Party, at the very least. A dude in constant control and command like Prince, we cannot begin to fathom how that made him feel.

WhisperingDandelions said:

ShellyMcG said:

paisleyparkgirl said: Trying to run someone down in your car sounds like attempted murder to me. But even if it was just for intimidation, I still don't see Prince doing something like that. It's too out of character. Sounds like BS.

eh playing the bass in MJ's face at a live concert seems "out of character" by certain interpretations, too. He was surely humiliated on the night of James Brown's Grammy Party, at the very least.

So much so that he denied permission for the footage to be used for James Brown's official dvd release of that night.

If he didn't feel prepared, he shouldn't have gone onstage. James Brown didn't even know who he was at that time.

WhisperingDandelions said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

ShellyMcG said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

eh playing the bass in MJ's face at a live concert seems "out of character" by certain interpretations, too. He was surely humiliated on the night of James Brown's Grammy Party, at the very least. A dude in constant control and command like Prince, we cannot begin to fathom how that made him feel.

Yeah I seen Chris Tucker talking about that but I wonder how much of that story is exaggerated. Like, was he actually right up in his face? Nobody managed to get a picture of this? I don't believe half of these Prince stories and I'm sure the other half are strongly exaggerated. But even so, there's a big difference between playing a bass guitar in someone's face and trying to knock them down with your car. I just don't buy it.

A lot of these so called "Prince stories" are urban legends, just like everyone says that he used to levitate.

ShellyMcG said:

Yeah I seen Chris Tucker talking about that but I wonder how much of that story is exaggerated. Like, was he actually right up in his face? Nobody managed to get a picture of this? I don't believe half of these Prince stories and I'm sure the other half are strongly exaggerated.

will.i.am tells an identical version of the story, with all smiles, apparent good-nature and paying apparent genuine deference to both: https://youtu.be/12atuHbR870?t=38 On different talk shows as well: https://www.youtube.com/w...95ilavW0L8

Just the nature of contemporary stan culture. Ten years ago it'd been "how do you know? were you there?" Now it's like well, uh, we got neutral celeb A, B, C, courtroom stenographer D corroborating the same exact story without consulting each other, people who grew up fans of both artists--"NUH UH, let's see some photos or HD video from an event that took place pre-smart phone age. Surely someone whipped out their flip-phone in 2003? More urban legends!"

Meanwhile you all eat up pithy anecdotes about how they were BFFs like they're Rocky Road ice cream. Some org'ers will even jump in these threads just to wax nostalgiac, "yeep, hehe, they really had a friendly rivaly going on" like there aren't a trillion examples of Prince being a tad thorny and a bit tantrum-y to say the least at multiple instances in his life.

But nah, they were Bert and Ernie. They were Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon. Whatever helps the org sleep at night.

[Edited 2/20/23 13:37pm]

ShellyMcG said:

I actually have seen that clip but I didn't think it was anything particularly bad. Just to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks on me, I went back and watched it again before typing this comment and while it's not exactly prime Prince, I wouldn't go as far as to say that it was the disaster a lot of the comments on that video make it out to be. Other than him taking a part of the set with him when he was leaving the stage. That was kind of funny, I'm not going to lie

You're judging it by normal human standards. By Prince standards it was a joke, you ever seen any footage of him looking remotely deer-in-the-headlights as this night?

WhisperingDandelions said:

ShellyMcG said:

I mean, I don't care if they were friends, enemies, brothers, lovers or whatever. I can't think of a single celebrity whose personal life I am in any way interested in. I just find a lot of these stories to be grossly exaggerated or just straight up bullshit.

Let's say he successfully ran MJ down in '83. You'd still be here, right?

I know I would. Anxious anticipating that next parole hearing, hyping up them unreleased outtakes from his shelved Purple Rain project and waxing on about what could have been.

WhisperingDandelions said:

ShellyMcG said:

I mean, I don't care if they were friends, enemies, brothers, lovers or whatever. I can't think of a single celebrity whose personal life I am in any way interested in. I just find a lot of these stories to be grossly exaggerated or just straight up bullshit.

Let's say he successfully ran MJ down in '83. You'd still be here, right?

I know I would. Anxious anticipating that next parole hearing, hyping up them unreleased outtakes from his shelved Purple Rain project and waxing on about what could have been.

Prince's career would have ended right then and there and there would not be a Prince forum to discuss his music and the vault hah.

WhisperingDandelions said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

ShellyMcG said:

rap said: Yeah that sounds a bit far fetched. I've seen stories about Prince treating his bandmates and even his wife pretty terribly but I can't imagine him out there trying to murder Michael Jackson. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

Have you seen that James Brown Grammy party video?

Whether he seriously contemplated murder, was throwing a bit of a Diva tantrum, or absolutely none of the above, one thing is certain: that night had a big enough impact on him where he never ever went another waking moment of his life not 100% ready to dominate the stage at any moment in any scenario. Nobody ever caught Prince with his eyes off the prize ever again, because of this night.

... Thanks to Michael inviting him over to the stage.

And I would love to see that ''mistake'' again in a much better viedeo quality!

[Edited 2/22/23 5:05am]

ShellyMcG said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

Prince's career would have ended right then and there and there would not be a Prince forum to discuss his music and the vault hah.

I'd agree with that but at the same time, there are artists who have probably done worse than that and they still have fansites devoted to them. So, in this other timeline where Prince ran over Michael Jackson, the org may not be exactly as it is now but I still think it would exist is some shape or form.

Assuming he had gone to prison for life in 83, do you think his first 5 albums before Purple Rain would have allowed him the opportunity to still be talked about on forums in the year 2023 ?

As good as they were, it wasn't until Purple Rain that Prince became a household name.

nayroo2002 said:

So, like i said, "Lavaux" was an homage to Michael Jackson, in the vein of "Shake Your Body" after his untimely passing.

Quite possibly correct.

Might not be.

Sounds logical to me, though!

Are you saying IYO that it is an homage, or has it been documented? Sincere question for my knowledge. I can hear some similarities.

[Edited 2/22/23 8:48am]

paisleyparkgirl said:

ShellyMcG said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

Assuming he had gone to prison for life in 83, do you think his first 5 albums before Purple Rain would have allowed him the opportunity to still be talked about on forums in the year 2023 ?

As good as they were, it wasn't until Purple Rain that Prince became a household name.

We'll never know the answer to that but it's possible. Killing Michael Jackson in 1983 would have made him a household name. There's no doubt about that. And that fame would have made a lot of people very curious to see how good a musician he was. And once the masses began checking out those early albums, I'm sure he would have had a fairly sizeable fanbase.

So you would have become a fan of a murderer (especially considering that pre-allegations Mj was male version of what you'd consider America's sweetheart) ?

AZStreet said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

ShellyMcG said:

paisleyparkgirl said: We'll never know the answer to that but it's possible. Killing Michael Jackson in 1983 would have made him a household name. There's no doubt about that. And that fame would have made a lot of people very curious to see how good a musician he was. And once the masses began checking out those early albums, I'm sure he would have had a fairly sizeable fanbase.

So you would have become a fan of a murderer (especially considering that pre-allegations Mj was male version of what you'd consider America's sweetheart) ?

She said she's not interested in celebrity's personal lives.

I take it you would no longer be a fan? Would the songs somehow cease being jams? Seems difficult to assume. You could also hypothetically take your "we weren't there," "you can never trust what anybody else has to say" and apply it to any guilty verdict, particularly when factoring in Gen-Z perceptions of police corruption, "those racist cops in '83 probably had it in for Prince", "Jill Jones and Dr. Fink's fingerprints were also found on the steering wheel", "he never admitted anything in his own words" etc.

Burzum was found guilty of murder and he's still the unparalleled GOAT of black metal. Nicki Minaj married a literal child m0lester and her stanbase stands firm. MJ of course has allegations applied to his name that are arguably worse than murder, but he's still got maybe the strongest cult fanbase of all time 24/7 posting chart stats 'round the clock (which I don't personally believe, before any stans mail me anthrax, but he still was found guilty of giving minors the "Jesus Juice" in '04 and paid off the '93 case). 2Pac was found guilty of rape and he's still considered the greatest rapper by many... even Prince has songs advocating or simulating rape and you all seem to be able to rationalize it with no alternate reality or hypothetical necessary.

People are sick of the MJ vs. Prince debate now, imagine how intense it would be in that alternate reality. I'd still be outside the courthouse with my "Free Prince" picket sign flipping the script on CNN, "Were you there? Are you a private investigator? Then gtfo."

[Edited 2/22/23 18:36pm]

[Edited 2/22/23 18:38pm]

ShellyMcG said:

It's also dawned on me that this is a really weird topic for conversation. And I like it

It would make for a damn fascinating thread but I don't think I'm able to make those in any forum for whatever reason... actually this would probably precisely be the reason if there ever was a reason.

I still think he'd have a forum somewhere, fanbase someplace. There's plenty of bands/artists with 5 albums or less that still have reverence, and those 5 albums still display an incredible potential/increased progressive mastery. Plus assumedly all those Vault tracks from the era would still be leaked, increasing his artistic legacy. He'd still have the Vanity 6 and two Time albums as well. Burzum had a deal where he could still record some instrumental keyboard music when he was jailed, maybe Prince would get a similar arrangement.

[Edited 2/22/23 18:45pm]

WhisperingDandelions said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

So you would have become a fan of a murderer (especially considering that pre-allegations Mj was male version of what you'd consider America's sweetheart) ?

She said she's not interested in celebrity's personal lives.

I take it you would no longer be a fan? Would the songs somehow cease being jams? Seems difficult to assume. You could also hypothetically take your "we weren't there," "you can never trust what anybody else has to say" and apply it to any guilty verdict, particularly when factoring in Gen-Z perceptions of police corruption, "those racist cops in '83 probably had it in for Prince", "Jill Jones and Dr. Fink's fingerprints were also found on the steering wheel", "he never admitted anything in his own words" etc.

Burzum was found guilty of murder and he's still the unparalleled GOAT of black metal. Nicki Minaj married a literal child m0lester and her stanbase stands firm. MJ of course has allegations applied to his name that are arguably worse than murder, but he's still got maybe the strongest cult fanbase of all time 24/7 posting chart stats 'round the clock (which I don't personally believe, before any stans mail me anthrax, but he still was found guilty of giving minors the "Jesus Juice" in '04 and paid off the '93 case). 2Pac was found guilty of rape and he's still considered the greatest rapper by many... even Prince has songs advocating or simulating rape and you all seem to be able to rationalize it with no alternate reality or hypothetical necessary.

People are sick of the MJ vs. Prince debate now, imagine how intense it would be in that alternate reality. I'd still be outside the courthouse with my "Free Prince" picket sign flipping the script on CNN, "Were you there? Are you a private investigator? Then gtfo."

[Edited 2/22/23 18:36pm]

[Edited 2/22/23 18:38pm]

Killing someone is still worse than any of the crimes you've listed. Tupac was falsely accused.

MJ's fans don't believe he did it and Nicki minaj is not the culprit.

WhisperingDandelions said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

So you would have become a fan of a murderer (especially considering that pre-allegations Mj was male version of what you'd consider America's sweetheart) ?

She said she's not interested in celebrity's personal lives.

I take it you would no longer be a fan? Would the songs somehow cease being jams? Seems difficult to assume. You could also hypothetically take your "we weren't there," "you can never trust what anybody else has to say" and apply it to any guilty verdict, particularly when factoring in Gen-Z perceptions of police corruption, "those racist cops in '83 probably had it in for Prince", "Jill Jones and Dr. Fink's fingerprints were also found on the steering wheel", "he never admitted anything in his own words" etc.

Burzum was found guilty of murder and he's still the unparalleled GOAT of black metal. Nicki Minaj married a literal child m0lester and her stanbase stands firm. MJ of course has allegations applied to his name that are arguably worse than murder, but he's still got maybe the strongest cult fanbase of all time 24/7 posting chart stats 'round the clock (which I don't personally believe, before any stans mail me anthrax, but he still was found guilty of giving minors the "Jesus Juice" in '04 and paid off the '93 case). 2Pac was found guilty of rape and he's still considered the greatest rapper by many... even Prince has songs advocating or simulating rape and you all seem to be able to rationalize it with no alternate reality or hypothetical necessary.

People are sick of the MJ vs. Prince debate now, imagine how intense it would be in that alternate reality. I'd still be outside the courthouse with my "Free Prince" picket sign flipping the script on CNN, "Were you there? Are you a private investigator? Then gtfo."

[Edited 2/22/23 18:36pm]

[Edited 2/22/23 18:38pm]

No he wasn't. He was acquitted of those charges too.

Lawd not this again!

[Edited 2/23/23 0:40am]

paisleyparkgirl said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

of course Prince liked History. It was the first time in like four decades worth of MJ's career he didn't put out yet another contrived cookie-cutter album for the masses, dude actually reached down deep and delivered something from his soul. Who knew Mikey had it in him? Guarantee Prince wouldn't dare play the bass in MJ's face the night he checked that album out. Probably regretted trying to run him down with his car and everything.

I don't think anything MJ released was cookie cutter. Even today, there are very few musicians with that much of an attention to detail.

paisleyparkgirl said:

MrSharon said:

purplethunder3121 said: I know this story is fake but it sounds like it could be true. Let's not forget when prince had dinner with Quincy and MJ to discuss the recording of BAD It was said the 2 singers just sat at the table,barely talking and mostly stairing at each other Prince gave MJ a box with feathers and a tape with some weird sound effects and voices (in my mind it's the audio recording of prince saying "if u believe he will forgive u and backwards dance electric vocals)

Anna Fantastic said that he had dinner with Michael and she asked him if the chimp was there and we know Anna was around from 88-90.

This was 1989: