paisleyparkgirl said:

olb99 said:

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MDMA (the active substance that's supposed to be in ecstasy) has been used in the 60s/70s and is now used again for psychotherapy precisely because it allows you to have insights, to confront your fears, etc. If you're in a suitable context (e.g. with psychotherapists), those insights will have some value (i.e. you won't "rethink" them when you're sober again).

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https://en.wikipedia.org/...chotherapy

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I don't know what happened in Prince's head at that moment and nobody will ever know, but it's possible that Prince discovered something important while on MDMA/Ecstasy. At the same time and especially if he took too high a dose, it's also very possible that he hated it, because he hates losing control.

I know most Prince fans are from Gen X, I don't know how taboo ecstasy was for you, I'm younger and I have friends who have experimented with this drug. It's supposed to make you all lovey dovey. You see the world from a more loving perspective. A lot of people with anger issues have experienced a positive change in their lives after taking x.

What does that have to do with the price of pork?

heartpeacesheart said:

This site is obsessed with people doing drugs but i bet nobody is even on drugs.

Whuht???

i only post after a six pack, at least!

nayroo2002 said:

heartpeacesheart said:

This site is obsessed with people doing drugs but i bet nobody is even on drugs.

Whuht???

i only post after a six pack, at least!

.

I'm on caffeine every day.

olb99 said:

Genesia said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

I know most Prince fans are from Gen X, I don't know how taboo ecstasy was for you, I'm younger and I have friends who have experimented with this drug. It's supposed to make you all lovey dovey. You see the world from a more loving perspective. A lot of people with anger issues have experienced a positive change in their lives after taking x.

What does that have to do with the price of pork?

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I guess we're trying to guess if MDMA had a positive impact on Prince? At the end of the day, it's all speculation. But my opinion is that we should at least speculate based on reasonable assumptions.

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Knowning what MDMA is/is not, what it does/doesn't do to somebody, in that regard, is important. My personal opinion is that MDMA shouldn't be taboo and is way less dangerous than thought. As said, it's used as an adjunct to psychotherapy sessions and could be approved for such use by the FDA in a few years (or even 2023). It's also considered less harmful than alcool and cigarettes by some researchers.

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https://www.economist.com...erous-drug

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And, yes, MDMA makes you less defensive, empathic, loving, happy, etc..

.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinved that Prince hated that feeling in retrospect.

olb99 said:

Genesia said:

What does that have to do with the price of pork?

.

I guess we're trying to guess if MDMA had a positive impact on Prince? At the end of the day, it's all speculation. But my opinion is that we should at least speculate based on reasonable assumptions.

.

Knowning what MDMA is/is not, what it does/doesn't do to somebody, in that regard, is important. My personal opinion is that MDMA shouldn't be taboo and is way less dangerous than thought. As said, it's used as an adjunct to psychotherapy sessions and could be approved for such use by the FDA in a few years (or even 2023). It's also considered less harmful than alcool and cigarettes by some researchers.

.

https://www.economist.com...erous-drug

.

And, yes, MDMA makes you less defensive, empathic, loving, happy, etc..

.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinved that Prince hated that feeling in retrospect.

I'm not sure why you quoted me, but that's a lot of wording to miss my point - which was that ppg's opining on the basis of her drug-using friends' experience with a particular substance has fuck all to do with a drug we don't know (for certain) that Prince even took.

Genesia said:

olb99 said:

.

I guess we're trying to guess if MDMA had a positive impact on Prince? At the end of the day, it's all speculation. But my opinion is that we should at least speculate based on reasonable assumptions.

.

Knowning what MDMA is/is not, what it does/doesn't do to somebody, in that regard, is important. My personal opinion is that MDMA shouldn't be taboo and is way less dangerous than thought. As said, it's used as an adjunct to psychotherapy sessions and could be approved for such use by the FDA in a few years (or even 2023). It's also considered less harmful than alcool and cigarettes by some researchers.

.

https://www.economist.com...erous-drug

.

And, yes, MDMA makes you less defensive, empathic, loving, happy, etc..

.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinved that Prince hated that feeling in retrospect.

I'm not sure why you quoted me, but that's a lot of wording to miss my point - which was that ppg's opining on the basis of her drug-using friends' experience with a particular substance has fuck all to do with a drug we don't know (for certain) that Prince even took.

.

Oh, that point? "ppg's drug-using friends' experience" matches what MDMA/Ecstasy does to people and that's the substance Prince is supposed to have taken. That's all. We'll never know for certain what he took and how much he took, but I'll accept Susan Rogers' story ("dilated pupils", behavior compatible with MDMA) any day over Davidson's version.

olb99 said:

Genesia said:

I'm not sure why you quoted me, but that's a lot of wording to miss my point - which was that ppg's opining on the basis of her drug-using friends' experience with a particular substance has fuck all to do with a drug we don't know (for certain) that Prince even took.

.

Oh, that point? "ppg's drug-using friends' experience" matches what MDMA/Ecstasy does to people and that's the substance Prince is supposed to have taken. That's all. We'll never know for certain what he took and how much he took, but I'll accept Susan Rogers' story ("dilated pupils", behavior compatible with MDMA) any day over Davidson's version.

Funny how Fink says Davidson told him Prince took XTC.

[Edited 9/28/22 8:05am]

JorisE73 said:

dodger07 said:

JorisE73 said:

Funny how Fink says Davidson told him Prince took XTC.

[Edited 9/28/22 8:05am]

Davidson flatly denies this on the pod. Says he didn’t have that type of relationship with Fink, where they’d talk and he’d tell him stuff.

So one of them is lying, right?

olb99 said:

So one of them is lying, right?

In the end, only one was left lying.

Letitgo

And this is how music legends who die legendary deaths morph into fabricated social media personas these dayze...

Then you have Cat who confirmed on Michael Dean's podcast that she was there during the trip and said that it was a good trip that benefited him.

paisleyparkgirl said:

Then you have Cat who confirmed on Michael Dean's podcast that she was there during the trip and said that it was a good trip that benefited him.

Yep. Cat, Susan Rogers, Matt Fink vs Gilbert Davidson. That whole interview is weird. Saying the 1987 Black Album is kind of the same as the 1994 Black Album, but not the same. Saying Susan Rogers and Matt Fink said Prince was on something (i.e. took some substance) that night, but saying right after that "Prince did not take recreational drugs, we know that". Really? This is not serious. Some people really do not want to admit that Prince tried MDMA/Ecstasy once (probably) in his lifetime. This is ridiculous.

shame prince didnt do more drugs.

the music he made with drugs might have been interesting.

olb99 said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

Then you have Cat who confirmed on Michael Dean's podcast that she was there during the trip and said that it was a good trip that benefited him.

Yep. Cat, Susan Rogers, Matt Fink vs Gilbert Davidson. That whole interview is weird. Saying the 1987 Black Album is kind of the same as the 1994 Black Album, but not the same. Saying Susan Rogers and Matt Fink said Prince was on something (i.e. took some substance) that night, but saying right after that "Prince did not take recreational drugs, we know that". Really? This is not serious. Some people really do not want to admit that Prince tried MDMA/Ecstasy once (probably) in his lifetime. This is ridiculous.

I understand why they would want to stress that because with the way he passed away, it would be too easy for people to assume that he was just another drug addicted rockstar when in fact, he used these painkillers because of his legitimate issues.

Whatever recreational drugs he might have done in the 80's are irrelevant to this case. According to Cat and others, he was in a very dark place when he experimented with hallucinogenics (it wasn't just one time) and they were not detrimental to him, quite the opposite, they led to his spiritual awakening, Lovesexy and he was happy again (Refer to the 1990 Rolling Stone interview with Neal Karlen).

That "Happy place" lasted until Graffiti Bridge and then he was back into angry mode safe to say he wasn't doing MDMA in the 90's.

paisleyparkgirl said:

olb99 said:

Yep. Cat, Susan Rogers, Matt Fink vs Gilbert Davidson. That whole interview is weird. Saying the 1987 Black Album is kind of the same as the 1994 Black Album, but not the same. Saying Susan Rogers and Matt Fink said Prince was on something (i.e. took some substance) that night, but saying right after that "Prince did not take recreational drugs, we know that". Really? This is not serious. Some people really do not want to admit that Prince tried MDMA/Ecstasy once (probably) in his lifetime. This is ridiculous.

I understand why they would want to stress that because with the way he passed away, it would be too easy for people to assume that he was just another drug addicted rockstar when in fact, he used these painkillers because of his legitimate issues.

Whatever recreational drugs he might have done in the 80's are irrelevant to this case. According to Cat and others, he was in a very dark place when he experimented with hallucinogenics (it wasn't just one time) and they were not detrimental to him, quite the opposite, they led to his spiritual awakening, Lovesexy and he was happy again (Refer to the 1990 Rolling Stone interview with Neal Karlen).

That "Happy place" lasted until Graffiti Bridge and then he was back into angry mode safe to say he wasn't doing MDMA in the 90's.

Graffiti Bridge movie is like a bad trip

JorisE73 said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

I understand why they would want to stress that because with the way he passed away, it would be too easy for people to assume that he was just another drug addicted rockstar when in fact, he used these painkillers because of his legitimate issues.

Whatever recreational drugs he might have done in the 80's are irrelevant to this case. According to Cat and others, he was in a very dark place when he experimented with hallucinogenics (it wasn't just one time) and they were not detrimental to him, quite the opposite, they led to his spiritual awakening, Lovesexy and he was happy again (Refer to the 1990 Rolling Stone interview with Neal Karlen).

That "Happy place" lasted until Graffiti Bridge and then he was back into angry mode safe to say he wasn't doing MDMA in the 90's.

Graffiti Bridge movie is like a bad trip

Yes the movie is terrible but he was in a very spiritually enlightened mode with it, talking about angels and all that stuff.

nayroo2002 said:

"Gilbert, Gilbert get the keys, u gonna have 2 drive, i can't, oh lord..."

Part 3 of IWUH makes alot more sense, now!

(( I always love your keen observation of his lyrics concerning any subject. ))

IMO Black Album has its moments but its definitely not a Funk anthem. It has too much of an outtake feel to it

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

IMO Black Album has its moments but its definitely not a Funk anthem. It has too much of an outtake feel to it

I agree.I do enjoy the album but I never really felt that it is the big funk masterpiece that some think it is.

SoulAlive said:

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

IMO Black Album has its moments but its definitely not a Funk anthem. It has too much of an outtake feel to it

I agree.I do enjoy the album but I never really felt that it is the big funk masterpiece that some think it is.

I'm gonna second this emotion.

I think there was way more hype and mystique around the album than it actually being the funk bible. Things like "Bob George," "Dead On It," "When 2 R In Love," and "Rock Hard in a Funky Place" is not funk music. Maybe the corniness of the first two reflects some fun stuff that George Clinton did in his music, but that doesn't make it funk; not by a long shot. "2 Nigs" is just part of the plethora of instrumentals around that time (a la Madhouse, or some random Sheila E. track).

If Prince wrote this to regain his Black audience, I can only imagine they stayed down the street at uncle Charlie's house for the BBQ.

IMO "Le Grind," "Cindy C.," and "Superfunkycalifragisexy" are the only tracks I'd want to circle back and listen to regularly. Doesn't mean it all sucks, it's just malformed as a proper Prince album.

TrivialPursuit said:

SoulAlive said:

I agree.I do enjoy the album but I never really felt that it is the big funk masterpiece that some think it is.

IMO "Le Grind," "Cindy C.," and "Superfunkycalifragisexy" are the only tracks I'd want to circle back and listen to regularly. Doesn't mean it all sucks, it's just malformed as a proper Prince album.

It pains me to say it but I fully agree with you on this.

LoveGalore said:

You'd have to suspend your disbelief something fierce to actually observe TBA as it would've been in 1987 though. You have to ignore everything you heard past SOTT. Would TBA have felt like a return to form? Absolutely. TBA is dark like 1999, corny and sexy like Dirty Mind and Controversy. Of course it feels like an outtake record by the time most people here heard it - that's precisely what it was and how Prince intended for it to remain.

I'd just about 75% agree with you on that. It was probably a bit more timely in 1987/8. It would have definitely continued the dark vibe that SOTT had (not on every song, but you get it).

I've actually always thought of SOTT as an extension of SOTT. Yes, SOTT started as something else, but once it was whittled down to the moodier and often-darker songs, TBA feels like a sequel of sorts.

On the other side of that, Lovesexy proved to be a full 180º from what we knew him for on any level, and changed the course of his career for years.

TrivialPursuit said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

shame prince didnt do more drugs.

the music he made with drugs might have been interesting.

As far as we know, he never created music while under the influence of drugs. Alcohol, maybe? What I'm surprised of is the amount of sugar/caffeine he consumed.

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Anyway, Lovesexy being my favorite album, I'm glad that whatever happened happened. The Black Album is an excellent album as well, though.

[Edited 10/1/22 6:38am]

LoveGalore said:

You'd have to suspend your disbelief something fierce to actually observe TBA as it would've been in 1987 though. You have to ignore everything you heard past SOTT. Would TBA have felt like a return to form? Absolutely. TBA is dark like 1999, corny and sexy like Dirty Mind and Controversy. Of course it feels like an outtake record by the time most people here heard it - that's precisely what it was and how Prince intended for it to remain.

.

For most, including me, the experience of listening to the black album is of course only in relation to Lovesexy. The disbelieve that a disappointing album like lovesexy could come from Prince and then hearing a great album like the black album (no matter the sound quality that I first heard it in, or the dreadful fusion of 2 Nigs) almost physically hurt. It forever changed my relationship to Prince's music...