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Thread started 06/04/22 6:46am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

what was the bigger mistake*? not taking the PR tour to europe or the SOTT tour to the US?

*some might not think this a mistake at all.

now i know prince was restless, and got bored fast.

but i wonder what mightve happened if he took the PR tour to europe and japan - maybe the preference in europe for the late 80s material would have been different if they had seen the 84 tour. and maybe if the SOTT tour went to the US, then they would have noticed the albums that were considered drop offs after purple rain, and the general consensus on his career would have shifted.

then again, all careers in music tend to have a big peak, and prince had his, and didnt really try to keep it going, like some might have. he ended it on a high, rather than ride it out for as long as he absolutely could. maybe this was another thing where he didnt want to be at the mercy of the audience - he wanted to end it before they could end it (ie before they got bored).

its weird though that the decision not to tour the US with SOTT is a famous move, generally thought to be a big career mistake. while the decision to end the PR tour in the US is not generally that well known, maybe cos the american consensus is still dominant, so to americans, it doesnt matter that he didnt take it anywhere else, as they didnt even notice lol

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Reply #1 posted 06/04/22 9:36am

FragileUnderto
w

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Sign of the times to the usa. Only because I would have been old enough to go and afford it lol
Cant believe my purple psychedelic pimp slap pimp2

And I descend from grace, In arms of undertow
I will take my place, In the great below
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Reply #2 posted 06/04/22 10:50am

Ramzoo

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For the Purple Rain tour, wasn't that linked to the terrorist attacks we faced in Europe?
I was lucky enough to attend all the SOTT parisian shows.
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Reply #3 posted 06/04/22 11:41am

laytonian

Sign O' The Times.
The public has a short attention span and bringing this tour to the US would have reinforced the genius of Prince, even without The Revolution.
I think he learned his lesson and brought the subsequent tour to the US and Japan (ignoring the US).

Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
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Reply #4 posted 06/04/22 1:28pm

TrivialPursuit

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Definitely Sign O the Times. Because after the bomb of Under The Cherry Moon (despite the #1 "Kiss), and the almost instant alienation of new fans with Around the World In A Day (whicih was a drastic switch from something like 1999 which was only two albums earlier) he needed a new boost of public appeal. Bringing that album back to the U.S. and touring it would've been a much needed kick to his reputation and appeal in the U.S.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #5 posted 06/04/22 1:58pm

lavendardrumma
chine

Different times, and Purple Rain was promoted by the film which wasn't as accessible in foreign markets. If he tours Europe with Purple Rain, I don't know if we get the Parade era or he spends as much time overseas. He doesn't have a true wold tour until Lovesexy. I mean, you could say he made a mistake by not taking 1999 to Europe too.

SOTT, half the concept was letting the film tour for him.

But then he really doesn't tour again in the US until Lovesexy 4 years later. My memory of that was he played smaller venues and didn't sell them out, but that's wrong. So I think he alienated some audiences, and could have been even bigger, but at that point, Prince is Prince. Everyone liked some Prince by then, even if you weren't buying the records or running to every one of his tours, he was one of those socially accepted artists that crossed over all audiences. But like I said, his fans didn't operate like other fans, they would skip records, and ignore phases then wait for him to come back to something we liked. Maybe tourin SOTT in the US changes that.

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Reply #6 posted 06/04/22 10:40pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Its interesting though, the shortcut idea of, hey i dint want to takethe tour to Europe so ill just do a satellite broadcast, he did something similar with sott. I.e i don't want to tour the states so ill just do this film instead. In a way im glad he did actually as maybe if he did tour the states in 87 we wpuldnt have the film.

I didnt know the reason for the satellitebroadcadt until this past week lol
[Edited 6/4/22 22:41pm]
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Reply #7 posted 06/05/22 3:08am

FrankieCoco1

If the PR tour went to Europe, we may never have got Around The World In A Day. Might have just gone straight into Under The Cherry Moon filming and the Parade album (which would likely have ended up different to what we know).

Likewise if SOTT was tourers in the USA, Lovesexy mightn’t have happened. Instead it’s possible Graffiti Bridge would have been made earlier.

But who knows.
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Reply #8 posted 06/05/22 3:38am

RODSERLING

If he toured in the US with SOTT, Prince would have sold maybe 1 million more copies.
But if he toured in Europe for PR, he would have sold 5 millions more of PR.


Maybe the biggest mistake was to not launch a Bat-tour worldwide, during the summer of 1989.
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Reply #9 posted 06/05/22 5:40am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

He wouldnt have done a bat tour as it might have been seen as too much bat, not enough prince. Was a bat tour ever planned? It would have been cool tbh. Prince in the partyman costume. Prob would have been better than the nude tour.
[Edited 6/5/22 5:40am]
[Edited 6/5/22 5:42am]
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Reply #10 posted 06/05/22 6:11am

RODSERLING

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

He wouldnt have done a bat tour as it might have been seen as too much bat, not enough prince. Was a bat tour ever planned? It would have been cool tbh. Prince in the partyman costume. Prob would have been better than the nude tour.
[Edited 6/5/22 5:40am]
[Edited 6/5/22 5:42am]


You got it right, something more a show a la MJMJ,
with a huge choreography for Batdance with many dancers.
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Reply #11 posted 06/05/22 6:17am

SPYZFAN1

Definetly the "S.O.T.T." tour. R&B radio played the title track, "Housequake" and "Slow Love" in decent rotation. "Adore" was heavily being played on the "quiet storm" late night shows too. MTV and VH-1 played the hit videos from the album and he did a kick a$$ performance at the 1987 MTV awards. The movie only played breifly in one theater in my area..(if you blinked, you missed it)..so the time would have been right to do a quick major city U.S. tour.

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Reply #12 posted 06/05/22 3:19pm

Marrk

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In the UK we got neither. Didn't harm him here at all though. However, I won't lie, I was a bit pissed off.

Yeah, we'll, we'll try to imagine what silence looks like.
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Reply #13 posted 06/05/22 7:56pm

chrisslope9

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Without question SOTT. The record had revovered from the disatourous choice to release IIWYGF as the second single. U Got the Look and I Could Never Take the Place were both top ten singles. Very hard to do that after such a bad misfire. If Prince had decided to come back to the US and tour he couldve had another 3 or 4 top ten singles easy. SOTT actually couldve wound up being not just the most artistically successful,but also, the most commercially successful album of his career if not for those two bad choices.

[Edited 6/5/22 19:58pm]

[Edited 6/5/22 20:02pm]

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Reply #14 posted 06/06/22 2:22am

andrewm7new

I would contend that the Purple rain tour should have gone worldwide. This would really have cemented Prince`s position as a superstar and him touring sellout shows and quietly giving to charity would have done a lot to mitigate some of the bad press he was getting over the "We are the world" non contribution and Chick Huntsberry`s "Prince is an A#@hole" interview.

It would also have enabled him to tour Purple Rain and ATWIAD simultaneously an he would have made a lot of cash.

Ultimately though, the decision not to do so was Prince`s and I`m in no mood or position to second guess it because I`m not him lol

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Reply #15 posted 06/06/22 7:36am

chrisslope9

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andrewm7new said:

I would contend that the Purple rain tour should have gone worldwide. This would really have cemented Prince`s position as a superstar and him touring sellout shows and quietly giving to charity would have done a lot to mitigate some of the bad press he was getting over the "We are the world" non contribution and Chick Huntsberry`s "Prince is an A#@hole" interview.


It would also have enabled him to tour Purple Rain and ATWIAD simultaneously an he would have made a lot of cash.


Ultimately though, the decision not to do so was Prince`s and I`m in no mood or position to second guess it because I`m not him lol



Interesting. In your scenario he gets to tour both albums together. That might have been a good move. The reason I think it was the right choice not to keep touring PR is because he would've put himself at high risk for being pigeonholed as THE KID for the rest of his career. But, if he toured ATWIAD/PR together and worked his new image, it may have worked well.
[Edited 6/6/22 19:23pm]
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Reply #16 posted 06/06/22 12:21pm

RODSERLING

chrisslope9 said:

Without question SOTT. The record had revovered from the disatourous choice to release IIWYGF as the second single. U Got the Look and I Could Never Take the Place were both top ten singles. Very hard to do that after such a bad misfire. If Prince had decided to come back to the US and tour he couldve had another 3 or 4 top ten singles easy. SOTT actually couldve wound up being not just the most artistically successful,but also, the most commercially successful album of his career if not for those two bad choices.


[Edited 6/5/22 19:58pm]

[Edited 6/5/22 20:02pm]



IIWYG may have bombed when initially released, but it had a long lasting legacy. The song was famously covered by TLC on an album sold like 15 millions copies + their greatest hits, and was quoted by Jay Z and Beyonce on one of their hit.

So that was a risky single that payed on the long term.
The problem was there was no music video for on the MTV era.

I agree there should have been more singles, especially after the last two successful singles. The Cross was an obvious hit for meme. It's a shame to not have released it. It would have been a huge hit in Europe
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Reply #17 posted 06/06/22 2:31pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

the cross? really?

the obv singles to me (beyond the ones already released) would be:

play in the sunshine is the only one i think they should have released that didnt get released.

there were actually a lot of songs from SOTT released either as a or b sides.

starfish and coffee or hot thing would have been interesting singles. and then adore too.

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Reply #18 posted 06/06/22 3:38pm

RODSERLING

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

the cross? really?



the obv singles to me (beyond the ones already released) would be:



play in the sunshine is the only one i think they should have released that didnt get released.



there were actually a lot of songs from SOTT released either as a or b sides.



starfish and coffee or hot thing would have been interesting singles. and then adore too.





Yes, really I think from the 1st time I listened to it that it was an obvious potential hit.
It has that easy listening pop/rock vibe. No wonder why U2 quoted the lyrics to that very song in their Twitter for Prince's death.

Hot Thing and Adore were already played on the radio.

I agree that Starfish and Coffee with a kid-friendly music video a la Muppets would have been a good seller. It's easy, catchy and short.
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Reply #19 posted 06/06/22 5:56pm

TrivialPursuit

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"The Cross" never had single worthiness. Not in the least.

The bigger obvious singles were:

Housequake

Strange Relationship

Adore

If I Was Your Girlfriend (re-release)

Play In The Sunshine (UK only)

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #20 posted 06/06/22 7:28pm

chrisslope9

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The Cross, Starfish, Play in the Sunshine, all could've been hits. And Housequake should've been an A side. All of my friends who were into rock and late 80s alt music loved The Cross even though they weren't Prince fans. The Cross was proto grunge. It was could've been a monster single.
[Edited 6/6/22 19:29pm]
[Edited 6/6/22 19:32pm]
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Reply #21 posted 06/06/22 10:16pm

RODSERLING

chrisslope9 said:

The Cross, Starfish, Play in the Sunshine, all could've been hits. And Housequake should've been an A side. All of my friends who were into rock and late 80s alt music loved The Cross even though they weren't Prince fans. The Cross was proto grunge. It was could've been a monster single.
[Edited 6/6/22 19:29pm]
[Edited 6/6/22 19:32pm]


Exactly, I always thought The Cross was more like Nirvana than the usual Prince.
Friends of mine who didn't like Prince, liked the Cross at the first listening.
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Reply #22 posted 06/08/22 7:51am

Poplife88

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Not brining SOTT to the states was his biggest mistake, hands down. The album still had a couple singles (Strange Relationship and Housequake WITH VIDEOS...MTV was a necessity at the time!) & if he brought that incredible show stateside, it would solidified Prince as a major player again after the UTCM fiasco.

Instead he got bored, released the movie, which as great as it was, fizzled immediately, then the whole Black Album/Lovesexy thing...by the time he finally toured with Lovesexy he was considered a crazy has-been in the US. Us hardcores were still there...but he alienated a lot of US fans with Lovesexy.

We're gonna need a bigger boat
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Reply #23 posted 06/08/22 10:53am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

RODSERLING said:

chrisslope9 said:

The Cross, Starfish, Play in the Sunshine, all could've been hits. And Housequake should've been an A side. All of my friends who were into rock and late 80s alt music loved The Cross even though they weren't Prince fans. The Cross was proto grunge. It was could've been a monster single.
[Edited 6/6/22 19:29pm]
[Edited 6/6/22 19:32pm]


Exactly, I always thought The Cross was more like Nirvana than the usual Prince.
Friends of mine who didn't like Prince, liked the Cross at the first listening.


The cross doesn't follow a pop song structure
Pretty much every nirvana song does (ergo, prince did not invent grunge lol)
The cross is also a bit dirgey
Doesnt quite end satisfyingly

Great album cut though and incredible live
[Edited 6/8/22 10:53am]
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Reply #24 posted 06/08/22 11:49am

NME01

FrankieCoco1 said:

If the PR tour went to Europe, we may never have got Around The World In A Day. Might have just gone straight into Under The Cherry Moon filming and the Parade album (which would likely have ended up different to what we know).

Likewise if SOTT was tourers in the USA, Lovesexy mightn’t have happened. Instead it’s possible Graffiti Bridge would have been made earlier.

But who knows.


I see it differently.

ATWIaD by all accounts was ‘wrapped’ before the end of PR tour. Europe would not have changed that - the tour may have evolved, with new tracks.

However, that incredibly fertile period that became Parade / Dream / Sign may not have happened in the same way.

So, Sign (as we know it) would look (and sound) very different. We also would never have got the UTCM film….

And with no ‘flop’ movie, would we have got Graffiti Bridge. . .
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Reply #25 posted 06/08/22 12:54pm

RODSERLING

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

RODSERLING said:



Exactly, I always thought The Cross was more like Nirvana than the usual Prince.
Friends of mine who didn't like Prince, liked the Cross at the first listening.


The cross doesn't follow a pop song structure
Pretty much every nirvana song does (ergo, prince did not invent grunge lol)
The cross is also a bit dirgey
Doesnt quite end satisfyingly

Great album cut though and incredible live
[Edited 6/8/22 10:53am]


I don't understand what you're saying about The Cross not following the pop song structure


biggrin
That makes no sense at all, there are tons of huge pop songs hits that didn't follow the same structure.
Anyway...

I agree for the end...but that could have been fixed with a radio edit
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Reply #26 posted 06/08/22 1:04pm

LoveGalore

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

RODSERLING said:



Exactly, I always thought The Cross was more like Nirvana than the usual Prince.
Friends of mine who didn't like Prince, liked the Cross at the first listening.


The cross doesn't follow a pop song structure
Pretty much every nirvana song does (ergo, prince did not invent grunge lol)
The cross is also a bit dirgey
Doesnt quite end satisfyingly

Great album cut though and incredible live
[Edited 6/8/22 10:53am]


The Cross follows the same structure as Moist Vagina, and perhaps Scentless Apprentice, and I'm sure others.
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Reply #27 posted 06/08/22 7:39pm

chrisslope9

avatar

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

RODSERLING said:
Exactly, I always thought The Cross was more like Nirvana than the usual Prince. Friends of mine who didn't like Prince, liked the Cross at the first listening.
The cross doesn't follow a pop song structure Pretty much every nirvana song does (ergo, prince did not invent grunge lol) The cross is also a bit dirgey Doesnt quite end satisfyingly Great album cut though and incredible live [Edited 6/8/22 10:53am]

Never said Prince invented grunge. Many hit songs don't follow a pop song structure.

[Edited 6/8/22 19:41pm]

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Reply #28 posted 06/14/22 5:21pm

woogiebear

SOTT in the USA should have HAPPENED

neutral neutral neutral

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Reply #29 posted 06/14/22 6:09pm

SoulAlive

In the USA,Prince gave up on SOTT too soon.There were a few more potential singles there.The concert film is fantastic but it can’t take the place of an actual tour.
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