I just heard this for the first time. Perhaps I'm hearing things wrong, but it sounds like he's singing live vocals over top a pre-recorded track of his vocals, doubling them up.

At the start of the song, when he's getting the crowd excited and having them count 1, 2, 3, it's clearly just his live voice.

But once the lyrics kick in, at 1:24, you can hear a second voice. It sounds exactly like his, not a backup singer. At first the two vocals in sync and I thought he just had an echo effect on his mic. But then at 1:35, when they sing the line, "In a couple of simply funky phrases", the two voices diverge. It was a bit jarring the first time I heard it.

Am I hearing that correctly, or is something else going on? I've listen to it a bunch of times and I'd swear it's two people singing, but they both sound like Prince. The only explanation I can come up with is that he was singing live over top a pre-recorded track of his own vocals.

[Edited 5/12/22 20:09pm]

lurker316 said:

I just heard this for the first time. Perhaps I'm hearing things wrong, but it sounds like he's singing live vocals over top a pre-recorded track of his vocals, doubling them up.

At the start of the song, when he's getting the crowd excited and having them count 1, 2, 3, it's clearly just his live voice.

But once the lyrics kick in, at 1:24, you can hear a second voice. It sounds exactly like his, not a backup singer. At first the two vocals in sync and I thought he just had an echo effect on his mic. But then at 1:35, when they sing the line, "In a couple of simply funky phrases", the two voices diverge. It was a bit jarring the first time I heard it.

Am I hearing that correctly, or is something else going on? I've listen to it a bunch of times and I'd swear it's two people singing, but they both sound like Prince. The only explanation I can come up with is that he was singing live over top a pre-recorded track of his own vocals.

It's called studio overdubs, mate.

Marco81 said:

lurker316 said:

I just heard this for the first time. Perhaps I'm hearing things wrong, but it sounds like he's singing live vocals over top a pre-recorded track of his vocals, doubling them up.

At the start of the song, when he's getting the crowd excited and having them count 1, 2, 3, it's clearly just his live voice.

But once the lyrics kick in, at 1:24, you can hear a second voice. It sounds exactly like his, not a backup singer. At first the two vocals in sync and I thought he just had an echo effect on his mic. But then at 1:35, when they sing the line, "In a couple of simply funky phrases", the two voices diverge. It was a bit jarring the first time I heard it.

Am I hearing that correctly, or is something else going on? I've listen to it a bunch of times and I'd swear it's two people singing, but they both sound like Prince. The only explanation I can come up with is that he was singing live over top a pre-recorded track of his own vocals.

It's called studio overdubs, mate.

Exactly. Live performance (Montreal, I think?) "enhanced" in studio.

Marco81 said:

lurker316 said:

I just heard this for the first time. Perhaps I'm hearing things wrong, but it sounds like he's singing live vocals over top a pre-recorded track of his vocals, doubling them up.

At the start of the song, when he's getting the crowd excited and having them count 1, 2, 3, it's clearly just his live voice.

But once the lyrics kick in, at 1:24, you can hear a second voice. It sounds exactly like his, not a backup singer. At first the two vocals in sync and I thought he just had an echo effect on his mic. But then at 1:35, when they sing the line, "In a couple of simply funky phrases", the two voices diverge. It was a bit jarring the first time I heard it.

Am I hearing that correctly, or is something else going on? I've listen to it a bunch of times and I'd swear it's two people singing, but they both sound like Prince. The only explanation I can come up with is that he was singing live over top a pre-recorded track of his own vocals.

It's called studio overdubs, mate.

Ah, that makes sense... but it does kind of defeat the purpose of releasing a live track if you're going to manipulate it that heavily.

LoveGalore said:

Prince famously used samples for background vocals on all tours that didn't have a dedicated set of background singers - that is, most tours between 1990 and 2006.

This concert was in 2002:

https://www.princevault.com/index.php?title=Single:_Days_Of_Wild

Also the ONA live set from the same tour had lots of overdubbing. I can't remember if it was Scotty who said it on that podcast or I read that.

Is Days of Wild Guitar Jam (3:33) from the Oct 23, 1999 performance?

I think the original studio version was pulled from 'The Gold Experience' because he wanted to flesh it out with a live performance.

I mean to say, use it as a backing track to play along with in a live set and see what comes out of it.

From that, we got the version on the 'CB' compilation.

As far as this version from 2002, it sounds like he did the reverse.

He played it live with his newer, un-funkier band and added his own ad-libbing in the studio.

lurker316 said:

LoveGalore said:

lurker316 said:

This concert was in 2002:

https://www.princevault.com/index.php?title=Single:_Days_Of_Wild

Sure, he uses samples during that tour too. Prince is like any other artist that way. Sometimes he was Memorex, whether he admitted it or not.

Yeah, it was hypocritcal of him to routinely boast "It ain't Memorex" if he was as guilty as anyone of using pre-recorded music.

When I first saw the Sign O' The Times "concert" film back in the '80s, it was obvious to even my dumb teenage ears that he'd heavily overdubbed it in the studio. That disappointed me because I wanted to experience a truly live concert. I'm still not sure whether I should file the audio rip from the film under "live" or not in my folder system.

[Edited 5/12/22 20:10pm]

lurker316 said:

LoveGalore said:

lurker316 said:

Yeah, it was hypocritcal of him to routinely boast "It ain't Memorex" if he was as guilty as anyone of using pre-recorded music.

When I first saw the Sign O' The Times "concert" film back in the '80s, it was obvious to even my dumb teenage ears that he'd heavily overdubbed it in the studio. That disappointed me because I wanted to experience a truly live concert. I'm still not sure whether I should file the audio rip from the film under "live" or not in my folder system.

Well I guess it's as live as the Purple Rain tracks, right? So the basic tracking might be live... But actually as far as I recall, isn't the soundtrack to SOTT movie purely in the studio with no basic tracks done live? I could obviously be wrong but I thought that was it. Similarly sometimes the audio on the new 85 show is SO good that it makes the subpar video look like pantomime to my eyes.

I think parts of SOTT movie is actually filmed live in Europe and then some of it was recorded at Paisley and then mimed on the PP soundstage to look like the European tour. ICNTTPOYM being a prime example.

lurker316 said:

Marco81 said:

It's called studio overdubs, mate.

Ah, that makes sense... but it does kind of defeat the purpose of releasing a live track if you're going to manipulate it that heavily.

It's the same technique he used for the last 3 tracks on Purple Rain. I would Die 4 U, Baby, I'm a Star, and Purple Rain were all from the live tracks from the performance at First Ave then overdubbed in the studio.

skywalker said:

lurker316 said:

Ah, that makes sense... but it does kind of defeat the purpose of releasing a live track if you're going to manipulate it that heavily.

It's the same technique he used for the last 3 tracks on Purple Rain. I would Die 4 U, Baby, I'm a Star, and Purple Rain were all from the live tracks from the performance at First Ave then overdubbed in the studio.

Yes, but Purple Rain wasn't marketed as a live concert movie. You knew watching Purple Rain that Hollywood magic was applied to the performances and that they were lip-synched. That's your expectation for a fictional movie.

In contrast, Sign O The Times was supposed to replicate the actual experience of hearing Prince live, especially for those of us in the States who didn't get the SOTT tour.

lurker316 said:

Marco81 said:

It's called studio overdubs, mate.

Ah, that makes sense... but it does kind of defeat the purpose of releasing a live track if you're going to manipulate it that heavily.

The original CD handed out at Xenophobia had a version with far fewer overdubs (both vocals and instrumentation). It was also longer, containing an excerpt of another song (it may have been Soul Man, but I'd need to check).

People complain about overdubs added to live recordings . But have you ever considered the opposite? Does happen. Case in point. Rave Un2 The Year 2000. Maceo's blowing on his horn, doesn't finish his solo by the time Prince engages with his own solo on fancy Keyboard-round-the-neck thingy. Prince later on, in the studio took to cutting out the end of Maceo's solo, evidently didn't like it.
But that had the unfortunate, unintended consequence of Making Maceo Look a bit of a Tit, because we're left with him blowing hard on the sax but not producing any sound. Now what's the modern politically correct synonym for 'retarded', anyone?

lurker316 said:

Marco81 said:

It's called studio overdubs, mate.

Ah, that makes sense... but it does kind of defeat the purpose of releasing a live track if you're going to manipulate it that heavily.

I've got some bad news for you about "It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night"

ElectricThighs said:

lurker316 said:

Ah, that makes sense... but it does kind of defeat the purpose of releasing a live track if you're going to manipulate it that heavily.

I've got some bad news for you about "It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night"

Yes, I know. I posted above that I was very disappointed in the SOTT movie for this reason.

ElectricThighs said:

lurker316 said:

Ah, that makes sense... but it does kind of defeat the purpose of releasing a live track if you're going to manipulate it that heavily.

I've got some bad news for you about "It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night"

I think you mean the version on the album, right?

lurker316 said:

LoveGalore said:

lurker316 said: Sure, he uses samples during that tour too. Prince is like any other artist that way. Sometimes he was Memorex, whether he admitted it or not.

Yeah, it was hypocritcal of him to routinely boast "It ain't Memorex" if he was as guilty as anyone of using pre-recorded music.

When I first saw the Sign O' The Times "concert" film back in the '80s, it was obvious to even my dumb teenage ears that he'd heavily overdubbed it in the studio. That disappointed me because I wanted to experience a truly live concert. I'm still not sure whether I should file the audio rip from the film under "live" or not in my folder system.

[Edited 5/12/22 20:10pm]

I was really young when i bought the Sign album and hearing the live version of A Beautiful Night, i never understood how he could sing the verses and schream "Paris are you ready?" at the same time. I figured he must have somebody in the band with the same voice at Prince LOL

Milty2 said:

ElectricThighs said:

I've got some bad news for you about "It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night"

I think you mean the version on the album, right?

I do

ElectricThighs said:

Milty2 said:

I think you mean the version on the album, right?

I do

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood.

nextedition said:

lurker316 said:

Yeah, it was hypocritcal of him to routinely boast "It ain't Memorex" if he was as guilty as anyone of using pre-recorded music.

When I first saw the Sign O' The Times "concert" film back in the '80s, it was obvious to even my dumb teenage ears that he'd heavily overdubbed it in the studio. That disappointed me because I wanted to experience a truly live concert. I'm still not sure whether I should file the audio rip from the film under "live" or not in my folder system.

[Edited 5/12/22 20:10pm]

I was really young when i bought the Sign album and hearing the live version of A Beautiful Night, i never understood how he could sing the verses and schream "Paris are you ready?" at the same time. I figured he must have somebody in the band with the same voice at Prince LOL

I didn't pick up on that when listening to the album, but when I saw the performance in the movie it clicked in my head.

Though I knew even from the ablum that there was something off about Sheila's rap and it sounded like it was on a telephone.

lurker316 said:

skywalker said:

It's the same technique he used for the last 3 tracks on Purple Rain. I would Die 4 U, Baby, I'm a Star, and Purple Rain were all from the live tracks from the performance at First Ave then overdubbed in the studio.

Yes, but Purple Rain wasn't marketed as a live concert movie. You knew watching Purple Rain that Hollywood magic was applied to the performances and that they were lip-synched. That's your expectation for a fictional movie.

In contrast, Sign O The Times was supposed to replicate the actual experience of hearing Prince live, especially for those of us in the States who didn't get the SOTT tour.

1. I thought we were talking about Days of Wild which as you pointed out, is clearly labeled as (Concert Mix). What do you think the "mix" means?

-

2. Are you upset because the Sign O' The Times film (generally regarded as one of the greatest concert films of all time) is not 100% sourced from a live concert/soundboard? Like, you think Prince duped us all fans with that movie?

-

3. The versions of the songs you are hearing in SOTT the film are the live arrangements as performed on the tour. It's not like he's lip syncing to album versions. If you went to Europe in 1987 and saw the SOTT tour, songs like "If I was Your Girlfriend" it would sound virtually the same as it does in the film.

lurker316 said:

nextedition said:

I was really young when i bought the Sign album and hearing the live version of A Beautiful Night, i never understood how he could sing the verses and schream "Paris are you ready?" at the same time. I figured he must have somebody in the band with the same voice at Prince LOL

I didn't pick up on that when listening to the album, but when I saw the performance in the movie it clicked in my head.

Though I knew even from the ablum that there was something off about Sheila's rap and it sounded like it was on a telephone.

Because it was - https://princevault.com/i...iful_Night

..and here is more info on the film soundtrack and what audio was used and from where - https://princevault.com/i..._The_Times

mb71 said:

lurker316 said:

I didn't pick up on that when listening to the album, but when I saw the performance in the movie it clicked in my head.

Though I knew even from the ablum that there was something off about Sheila's rap and it sounded like it was on a telephone.

Because it was - https://princevault.com/i...iful_Night

..and here is more info on the film soundtrack and what audio was used and from where - https://princevault.com/i..._The_Times

Yes, I know. That was my point. As I said, I knew from listening to the album that part wasn't live.

[Edited 5/14/22 10:02am]

skywalker said:

lurker316 said:

Yes, but Purple Rain wasn't marketed as a live concert movie. You knew watching Purple Rain that Hollywood magic was applied to the performances and that they were lip-synched. That's your expectation for a fictional movie.

In contrast, Sign O The Times was supposed to replicate the actual experience of hearing Prince live, especially for those of us in the States who didn't get the SOTT tour.

1. I thought we were talking about Days of Wild which as you pointed out, is clearly labeled as (Concert Mix). What do you think the "mix" means?

-

2. Are you upset because the Sign O' The Times film (generally regarded as one of the greatest concert films of all time) is not 100% sourced from a live concert/soundboard? Like, you think Prince duped us all fans with that movie?

-

3. The versions of the songs you are hearing in SOTT the film are the live arrangements as performed on the tour. It's not like he's lip syncing to album versions. If you went to Europe in 1987 and saw the SOTT tour, songs like "If I was Your Girlfriend" it would sound virtually the same as it does in the film.

1.) I was talking about the Days of Wild single. You (not me, *you*) compared it to Purple Rain. My commenting on Purple Rain was following your lead. Did you lose track of your own train of thought?

2.) For me, yes, the degree to which some of the performances in the in SOTT film are over-dubbed undermines the concept of live performances.

3.) In fact, he is lip synching in parts of SOTT. For example, take a look at It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night. There are times when he's not even holding the mic near his mouth while you can clearly hear him singing. (I suspect that's one of the tracks that was at least partially recreated on the soundstage at PP.) Grant, those could be the overdubs and there may be other parts of the songhe is singling live, but it takes you out of the experience to when you see it.

lurker316 said:

skywalker said:

1. I thought we were talking about Days of Wild which as you pointed out, is clearly labeled as (Concert Mix). What do you think the "mix" means?

-

2. Are you upset because the Sign O' The Times film (generally regarded as one of the greatest concert films of all time) is not 100% sourced from a live concert/soundboard? Like, you think Prince duped us all fans with that movie?

-

3. The versions of the songs you are hearing in SOTT the film are the live arrangements as performed on the tour. It's not like he's lip syncing to album versions. If you went to Europe in 1987 and saw the SOTT tour, songs like "If I was Your Girlfriend" it would sound virtually the same as it does in the film.

1.) I was talking about the Days of Wild single. You (not me, *you*) compared it to Purple Rain. My commenting on Purple Rain was following your lead. Did you lose track of your own train of thought?

2.) For me, yes, the degree to which some of the performances in the in SOTT film are over-dubbed undermines the concept of live performances.

3.) In fact, he is lip synching in parts of SOTT. For example, take a look at It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night. There are times when he's not even holding the mic near his mouth while you can clearly hear him singing. (I suspect that's one of the tracks that was at least partially recreated on the soundstage at PP.) Grant, those could be the overdubs and there may be other parts of the songhe is singling live, but it takes you out of the experience to when you see it.

1. I was comparing audio mixes/technique of songs in both cases (Days of Wild and Purple Rain). Not the marketing/selling of the Purple Rain as a film, nor the reshoots for SOTT. I'm not sure why this would be relevant as the song being discussed "Days of Wild (concert Mix)" was not part of a film or concert film.

-

2. You are welcome to your opinion and I am sorry that this audio/studio "trickery" (which is actually used in A LOT of concert films) negatively impacts your enjoyment of the SOTT film.

-

3. I get what you are saying, it's a movie and, like a lot of movies (concert film or otherwise) there are certainly editing mistakes that one can pick out. Again, I am sorry it detracts from your enjoyment of (what is generally regarded as) one of the greatest concert films of all time.

[Edited 5/14/22 10:53am]

[Edited 5/14/22 10:54am]

nayroo2002 said: