databank said:

vainandy said:

No, it's not a different version whatsoever. It is the exact same as the album version. 8 track tapes contained the versions as the album versions just like cassette tapes would. Vinyl albums and cassette tapes were similar in regards that both of them had a Side 1 and a Side 2 so the sequence of the songs on most cassette tapes were exactly the same as the vinyl sequence. 8 track tapes were different though. There was no Side 1 or Side 2 and you didn't flip an 8 track tape over.

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Imagine how a VHS video tape was loaded into the machine. It was simply pushed into the machine, face up, there was no flipping it over and when it ended, then you rewinded the tape. 8 track tapes were pressed into the front of the machine, face up, the same way. However, 8 track tapes didn't rewind. Instead, they played endlessly on a continuous loop until you pulled the tape out of the machine. Since people didn't have the patience to wait through the entire tape simply to hear a particular song, the tape had four sections within it called "programs". On the machine, if you pressed "Program 3", for instance, the tape would jump over to that section of the tape and play the songs within that program. The program didn't start from the front though, it resumed in progress from whatever section of the tape that it was.

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If the length of a tape was approximately 40 minutes (I'm just using that length as example to round it off to an even number), then each program contained 10 minutes of music (40 minutes divided by 4). They would change the sequence of tracks on 8 track tapes trying fit the songs within each program without having them end before the program ended. (Imagine making a cassette tape and as you approach the end of side 1, the song hasn't ended yet.). So when you see the track lising on the label of the "Controversy" 8 track tape and see "Do Me Baby (Beg.)" and "Do Me Baby (Conc.)" that means the end of program 1 arrived before the song finished so they had to fade it down before it ended and then fade it back up when program 2 began. I never understood why they did this because when I used to make homemade 8 track tapes, it was much better to hear the "click" between programs during a song in progress at full volume, than to be annoyed by the fading out, then silence, then fading back in between programs. I know, it's hard to understand if you've never experienced 8 track tapes. I loved them though. To me, they had a much better sound than cassette tapes with stronger bass.

Thanks for explaining. What a fascinating format!! But wait a second, then this means any track with (beg.) and (concl.) on any 8 tracks was faded out then back in? Because in this case, these would qualify as alternate versions

[Edited 1/11/22 17:33pm]

Not really. On the 45 version of "Do Me, Baby", it fades out during the screams before the song breaks all the way down. This means if you only had the 45, you basically had most of the meat of the song so if you had never heard the album version before, you would be satisfied because you would feel like you had the complete song. If you happened to hear the long version on the radio when it fully breaks down with the moaning and talking, then you would have to buy the album. However, on the 8 track tape, if I remember correctly, it faded out right as the second version began during....."Here we are, looking for a reason, for you to lay me down".... It faded out during that version, then you heard a click which was the machine clicking from program 1 to program 2, then the song faded back in, restarting at the beginning of the verse. Basically, the only reason the song faded out during that verse, is because the tape ran out on program 1 so if you only played the beginning of the song on program 1 and didn't let it continue playing on program 2, the song would sound totally incomplete.

paisleypark4 said:

vainandy said:

No, it's not a different version whatsoever. It is the exact same as the album version. 8 track tapes contained the versions as the album versions just like cassette tapes would. Vinyl albums and cassette tapes were similar in regards that both of them had a Side 1 and a Side 2 so the sequence of the songs on most cassette tapes were exactly the same as the vinyl sequence. 8 track tapes were different though. There was no Side 1 or Side 2 and you didn't flip an 8 track tape over.

.

Imagine how a VHS video tape was loaded into the machine. It was simply pushed into the machine, face up, there was no flipping it over and when it ended, then you rewinded the tape. 8 track tapes were pressed into the front of the machine, face up, the same way. However, 8 track tapes didn't rewind. Instead, they played endlessly on a continuous loop until you pulled the tape out of the machine. Since people didn't have the patience to wait through the entire tape simply to hear a particular song, the tape had four sections within it called "programs". On the machine, if you pressed "Program 3", for instance, the tape would jump over to that section of the tape and play the songs within that program. The program didn't start from the front though, it resumed in progress from whatever section of the tape that it was.

.

If the length of a tape was approximately 40 minutes (I'm just using that length as example to round it off to an even number), then each program contained 10 minutes of music (40 minutes divided by 4). They would change the sequence of tracks on 8 track tapes trying fit the songs within each program without having them end before the program ended. (Imagine making a cassette tape and as you approach the end of side 1, the song hasn't ended yet.). So when you see the track lising on the label of the "Controversy" 8 track tape and see "Do Me Baby (Beg.)" and "Do Me Baby (Conc.)" that means the end of program 1 arrived before the song finished so they had to fade it down before it ended and then fade it back up when program 2 began. I never understood why they did this because when I used to make homemade 8 track tapes, it was much better to hear the "click" between programs during a song in progress at full volume, than to be annoyed by the fading out, then silence, then fading back in between programs. I know, it's hard to understand if you've never experienced 8 track tapes. I loved them though. To me, they had a much better sound than cassette tapes with stronger bass.

Thank you Andy for all this information. I dont know much about 8 tracks so this description is fitting and I can see why some people like them still the way you describe it.. The tape is thicker than the size of a cassette too so I would assume there was more space and information on them. Just never heard the sound.

[Edited 1/12/22 6:58am]

To me, the sound on the 8 track sounded much closer on the vinyl than the cassette tape. A much stronger sound with more bass and I don't remember much tape hiss sound on the 8 track tapes. But then again, I was around in the days when the majority of tabletop stereos only had 8 track players and not cassette players. The very few people I knew that had cassette players had a component system (which usually was their parent's stereo) but mainly only die hard music loving parents had component systems. Most people's parents that I knew, had console stereos (which had 8 track players) and the kids had tabletop stereos (which also had 8 track players). We all had boom boxes which had cassette players but the volume of a boom box couldn't compete with the volume on a stereo so our goal was to have tapes that we could play on a loud stereo. Then, the price on the tabletop stereos with cassette players finally went down. I noticed then, that my cassette tapes I had previously recorded on my boom box sounded horrible when I played them in the stereo's cassette player. No bass whatsover and a muffled sound. I recorded some cassettes on the stereo's cassette player and they sounded better. I bought a few pre-recorded cassette tapes but didn't notice much difference in their sound quality than the recordings I had made myself so I mainly bought vinyl only. But even when I finally got a stereo which had both players, the 8 track tapes next to the cassette tapes still sounded much better with a stronger, more powerful sound that didn't sound like a "portable" recording.

PJMcGee said:

My dad had some 8 tracks. I just remember listening to one (Billy Joel's The Stranger), and when there was a quiet part, you could hear another song bleeding through somehow.

Probably the mastering was loud on that tape. Some of the expensive Maxell High XL II cassettes did that and would stop buying them because of that.

vainandy said:

databank said:

Thanks for explaining. What a fascinating format!! But wait a second, then this means any track with (beg.) and (concl.) on any 8 tracks was faded out then back in? Because in this case, these would qualify as alternate versions

[Edited 1/11/22 17:33pm]

Not really. On the 45 version of "Do Me, Baby", it fades out during the screams before the song breaks all the way down. This means if you only had the 45, you basically had most of the meat of the song so if you had never heard the album version before, you would be satisfied because you would feel like you had the complete song. If you happened to hear the long version on the radio when it fully breaks down with the moaning and talking, then you would have to buy the album. However, on the 8 track tape, if I remember correctly, it faded out right as the second version began during....."Here we are, looking for a reason, for you to lay me down".... It faded out during that version, then you heard a click which was the machine clicking from program 1 to program 2, then the song faded back in, restarting at the beginning of the verse. Basically, the only reason the song faded out during that verse, is because the tape ran out on program 1 so if you only played the beginning of the song on program 1 and didn't let it continue playing on program 2, the song would sound totally incomplete.

I'm not sure I understand your explaination. If there is a fade out or a fade in, we have a different edit of the song (or, to be accurate, two different edits, as in for example those long songs divided into pt. 1 and pt. 2 on 7 inches singles).

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Even if that was done for technical reasons, I would say it definitely counts as alternate edits. So basically my question was whether all songs with (beg.) and (cont.) on any 8-tracks were subject to these fade ins/outs, because since the original material is nearly impossible to listen to, I would have to go and dig all the 8 tracks on Discogs for such versions, and add them to my discography website when I find them (which is not something I'm very excited about doing, but if exists, it should be listed).

databank said:

vainandy said:

Not really. On the 45 version of "Do Me, Baby", it fades out during the screams before the song breaks all the way down. This means if you only had the 45, you basically had most of the meat of the song so if you had never heard the album version before, you would be satisfied because you would feel like you had the complete song. If you happened to hear the long version on the radio when it fully breaks down with the moaning and talking, then you would have to buy the album. However, on the 8 track tape, if I remember correctly, it faded out right as the second version began during....."Here we are, looking for a reason, for you to lay me down".... It faded out during that version, then you heard a click which was the machine clicking from program 1 to program 2, then the song faded back in, restarting at the beginning of the verse. Basically, the only reason the song faded out during that verse, is because the tape ran out on program 1 so if you only played the beginning of the song on program 1 and didn't let it continue playing on program 2, the song would sound totally incomplete.

I'm not sure I understand your explaination. If there is a fade out or a fade in, we have a different edit of the song (or, to be accurate, two different edits, as in for example those long songs divided into pt. 1 and pt. 2 on 7 inches singles).

.

Even if that was done for technical reasons, I would say it definitely counts as alternate edits. So basically my question was whether all songs with (beg.) and (cont.) on any 8-tracks were subject to these fade ins/outs, because since the original material is nearly impossible to listen to, I would have to go and dig all the 8 tracks on Discogs for such versions, and add them to my discography website when I find them (which is not something I'm very excited about doing, but if exists, it should be listed).

Andy, do you have these recorded?

paisleypark4 said:

databank said:

I'm not sure I understand your explaination. If there is a fade out or a fade in, we have a different edit of the song (or, to be accurate, two different edits, as in for example those long songs divided into pt. 1 and pt. 2 on 7 inches singles).

.

Even if that was done for technical reasons, I would say it definitely counts as alternate edits. So basically my question was whether all songs with (beg.) and (cont.) on any 8-tracks were subject to these fade ins/outs, because since the original material is nearly impossible to listen to, I would have to go and dig all the 8 tracks on Discogs for such versions, and add them to my discography website when I find them (which is not something I'm very excited about doing, but if exists, it should be listed).

Andy, do you have these recorded?

I would really like to get to the bottom of this

djdaffy1227 said:

Well I'll be darned, I just pulled my copy out and it is indeed a fade out ending. I will have to add this to my colection of radio edits. I aso recently found out the Spanish 12" single of "Mountains" is missing the last 10 seconds or so where the song continues after the fade on other pressings. Probably should add that to the colection of edits too.

Does your Spanish copy have a track length on the label? I'll have to add both that and the Private Joy fade to my own database.

Also, Databank what happened to your site? That and Prince Vault were my main sources of information in compiling my own database.

embmmusic said:

djdaffy1227 said:

Well I'll be darned, I just pulled my copy out and it is indeed a fade out ending. I will have to add this to my colection of radio edits. I aso recently found out the Spanish 12" single of "Mountains" is missing the last 10 seconds or so where the song continues after the fade on other pressings. Probably should add that to the colection of edits too.

Does your Spanish copy have a track length on the label? I'll have to add both that and the Private Joy fade to my own database.

Also, Databank what happened to your site? That and Prince Vault were my main sources of information in compiling my own database.

Hi

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My website is still there. I had to relocate it, but i'd put a link to the new URL on the old one, but I just realised reading your post that those pricks at Google have deleted the old site (why? I have no clue, I can only hope they won't delete the new one!!).

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I've corrected the URL on my signature below. You can now access it again via the link. I'm doing a lot of updates these days, so keep checking And thanks for the support

^In case something happens, I'm also going to make sure it's regularly saved on the Internet archive: https://web.archive.org/w...scography/

embmmusic said:

djdaffy1227 said:

Well I'll be darned, I just pulled my copy out and it is indeed a fade out ending. I will have to add this to my colection of radio edits. I aso recently found out the Spanish 12" single of "Mountains" is missing the last 10 seconds or so where the song continues after the fade on other pressings. Probably should add that to the colection of edits too.

Does your Spanish copy have a track length on the label? I'll have to add both that and the Private Joy fade to my own database.

Also, Databank what happened to your site? That and Prince Vault were my main sources of information in compiling my own database.

The label says 10:03 but in reality, when I digitized the record, it only came up to 9:36