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Reply #30 posted 01/02/22 5:12pm

TrivialPursuit

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nayroo2002 said:

TrivialPursuit said:


Off topic.

She's really nice, c'mon!


I am, man. BUt there's a very specific conversation going on. And we all know where to find the video. Like YouTube, DVDs, wherever. Just sayin'.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #31 posted 01/03/22 5:20am

Zannaloaf

LoveGalore said:

thebanishedone said:
I think Lisa stole that melody from Buzzcoks,remember Raspberry Berret was based on melody Lisa "came up with "
Okay but they're only sooooort of similar in the beginning. The melody for RB keeps going beyond the part that sounds like The Buzzcocks Are Everything.

The melody line is no where the same. If she came up with it on an autoharp it would sound nothing like this. The only thing that gives it a similar feel is the string sound.

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Reply #32 posted 01/03/22 5:59am

LoveGalore

Zannaloaf said:



LoveGalore said:


thebanishedone said:
I think Lisa stole that melody from Buzzcoks,remember Raspberry Berret was based on melody Lisa "came up with "

Okay but they're only sooooort of similar in the beginning. The melody for RB keeps going beyond the part that sounds like The Buzzcocks Are Everything.

The melody line is no where the same. If she came up with it on an autoharp it would sound nothing like this. The only thing that gives it a similar feel is the string sound.



Yeah it's a big ol reach but I reckon I can see where the similarities lie. There's just not a lot. Less than the similarities betwixt Cream and Get It On.
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Reply #33 posted 01/11/22 11:11pm

Buttox

thebanishedone said:

Buttox said:


You've got to be kidding. The background tracks are highly similar as are the vocals styles employed in both. It is the most derivative of Prince's hits by far ...

What the hell do you mean by "production values" and why are you bringing Sexy MF into the conversation?
are you sure about that cause now i'm going to post a list of songs Prince ripedoff other artists .here u go
Dance 4 Me Wa Wa Nee Giving Everything mixed with Zapp I Can Make U Dance

im surprised Wa Wa Nee didnt sue Prince

Guitar U2 I Will Follow

Redhead Stepchild Guess Who American Woman

The Everlasting Now Michael Jackson Burn This Disco OUt

The Most Beautiful Girl Raynard J Takin Me To Paradise

autors of the song did take Prince to court.

1999 ,Manic Monday Mamas and Papas Monday Morning

Raspberry Berret The Buzzcocks Are Everything

Erotic City Laid Back White Horse

7 Heathwave Gangsters Of The Groove

1000X and Kisses Denis Edwards Dont Look Any Further



Listened to a few of these...thanks for posting and yes you can see how several melody lines within Songs seem to have been borrowed.

But I stand by my point. Cream has knicked melody, rhythm, voice, drum sound ...a much more obvious and comprehensive steal
[Edited 1/13/22 8:03am]
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Reply #34 posted 01/12/22 7:24am

skywalker

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Buttox said:

thebanishedone said:
are you sure about that cause now i'm going to post a list of songs Prince ripedoff other artists .here u go Dance 4 Me Wa Wa Nee Giving Everything mixed with Zapp I Can Make U Dance im surprised Wa Wa Nee didnt sue Prince Guitar U2 I Will Follow Redhead Stepchild Guess Who American Woman The Everlasting Now Michael Jackson Burn This Disco OUt The Most Beautiful Girl Raynard J Takin Me To Paradise autors of the song did take Prince to court. 1999 ,Manic Monday Mamas and Papas Monday Morning Raspberry Berret The Buzzcocks Are Everything Erotic City Laid Back White Horse 7 Heathwave Gangsters Of The Groove 1000X and Kisses Denis Edwards Dont Look Any Further
Listened to a few of these...thanks for posting and yes you can see how several melody lines within Songs seem to have been borrowed. But I stand by my point. Cream has knicked melody, rhythm, voice, drum sosound ...a much more obvious and comprehensive steal [Edited 1/11/22 23:12pm] [Edited 1/11/22 23:14pm]

In reality, even before sampling, most music was/is derivative of what came before. That's literally how the artform progressed throughout the years.

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #35 posted 01/12/22 10:19am

LoveGalore

skywalker said:



Buttox said:


thebanishedone said:
are you sure about that cause now i'm going to post a list of songs Prince ripedoff other artists .here u go Dance 4 Me Wa Wa Nee Giving Everything mixed with Zapp I Can Make U Dance im surprised Wa Wa Nee didnt sue Prince Guitar U2 I Will Follow Redhead Stepchild Guess Who American Woman The Everlasting Now Michael Jackson Burn This Disco OUt The Most Beautiful Girl Raynard J Takin Me To Paradise autors of the song did take Prince to court. 1999 ,Manic Monday Mamas and Papas Monday Morning Raspberry Berret The Buzzcocks Are Everything Erotic City Laid Back White Horse 7 Heathwave Gangsters Of The Groove 1000X and Kisses Denis Edwards Dont Look Any Further

Listened to a few of these...thanks for posting and yes you can see how several melody lines within Songs seem to have been borrowed. But I stand by my point. Cream has knicked melody, rhythm, voice, drum sosound ...a much more obvious and comprehensive steal [Edited 1/11/22 23:12pm] [Edited 1/11/22 23:14pm]


In reality, even before sampling, most music was/is derivative of what came before. That's literally how the artform progressed throughout the years.



Right. And that concept should help some folks on here rest easy about the fact Prince made ample use of his references.
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Reply #36 posted 01/12/22 12:37pm

skywalker

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LoveGalore said:

skywalker said:

In reality, even before sampling, most music was/is derivative of what came before. That's literally how the artform progressed throughout the years.

Right. And that concept should help some folks on here rest easy about the fact Prince made ample use of his references.

Of course. Prince didn't exist in a vaccum. Neither does music. As an artist, one takes what's been done before (consciously or not) and then does their own thing from there. Results may vary.

-

Prince was a genius at many things. One of his greatest abilities was the amalgamation of other sounds/styles into something different or unexpected and unique to Prince.

-

For example: ATWIAD day has a ton of Beatles references, but in many ways, is something uniquley purple and completely unlike the Fab Four.

[Edited 1/12/22 12:38pm]

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #37 posted 01/13/22 8:03am

Buttox

lurker316 said:



thebanishedone said:


dustoff said:



Never liked Cream' enough to dwell on the T. Rex connection, but now I've spent the last half hour wondering if Prince ever listened to the Buzzcocks...



I think Lisa stole that melody from Buzzcoks,remember Raspberry Berret was based on melody Lisa "came up with "



I don't hear Raspberry Berret at all in this song.




It's the violin part.
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Reply #38 posted 01/13/22 8:54am

funkaholic1972

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fen said:

The thing is, sometimes things can resemble each other without being deliberate, conscious rip-offs. I remember making a track once that I was really happy with, but I had this nagging feeling that I’d heard something very similar before. It turned out that the melody was almost identical to Autechre’s "VLetrmx21", but I’d come to it essentially independently (I knew the track, but it wasn’t a direct, conscious reference during the composition) … sometimes you just hit the same “vein” and there’s an internal logic and “feel” to it. I was pretty mortified because it was too close to be usable, and completely unintentional.

Yeah, I have had that too! lol I put a lot of work in that track and then I suddenly found out it was way to similar to an existing hit song, almost a remake. Had to give up on that one.

RIP Prince: thank U 4 a funky Time...
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Reply #39 posted 01/13/22 9:22am

ufoclub

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TrivialPursuit said:

thebanishedone said:

steakfinger said:
I am sorry but the only thing similar is the vibe. If you were Mark Bolan and you sue Prince you would lose the case. And what was new about "Cream" was production value. "Sexy MF" and "Cream" although removed from Princes classic sound are indeed classic Prince.


And even that is barely there. It's a passing fancy, at best. To say he ripped off some old ass track, on purpose - to have a hit, like "Get It On" feels obtuse. A lot of songs have that driving bass line. The same way a lot of songs basically stick in one chord 99% of the time (aka "Mountains").

Did anyone try to sue his ass over "The Ride" for being a basic blues riff? Did he "rip someone off" there? Of course not.

Prince always ripped off some old ass track to make a hit between his truly inspired original moments, just as many artists do to keep churning. All those past melodies and structures echo around and become the vocabulary.

Spotify picks up on my played Prince songs, and that crazy algorithm gives me these "discover" playlists, and I've heard tons of shit he lifted ideas from leading to things as diverse as I Hate U to Big Fun.

And of course, "Cream" is basically taking the template of "Bang a Gong" and even spotlighting it with the little lyrical similarities. He refolded it into his own song. But it would not exist if the T-Rex song didn't exist first.

This website is repeating itself. but in more faded ways READ THIS:
https://prince.org/msg/7/246978

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Reply #40 posted 01/13/22 11:37am

skywalker

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ufoclub said:

And of course, "Cream" is basically taking the template of "Bang a Gong" and even spotlighting it with the little lyrical similarities. He refolded it into his own song. But it would not exist if the T-Rex song didn't exist first.

Yep. That's how art (and life) works. Everything comes from somewhere.

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #41 posted 01/13/22 11:40am

Buttox

skywalker said:



Buttox said:


thebanishedone said:
are you sure about that cause now i'm going to post a list of songs Prince ripedoff other artists .here u go Dance 4 Me Wa Wa Nee Giving Everything mixed with Zapp I Can Make U Dance im surprised Wa Wa Nee didnt sue Prince Guitar U2 I Will Follow Redhead Stepchild Guess Who American Woman The Everlasting Now Michael Jackson Burn This Disco OUt The Most Beautiful Girl Raynard J Takin Me To Paradise autors of the song did take Prince to court. 1999 ,Manic Monday Mamas and Papas Monday Morning Raspberry Berret The Buzzcocks Are Everything Erotic City Laid Back White Horse 7 Heathwave Gangsters Of The Groove 1000X and Kisses Denis Edwards Dont Look Any Further

Listened to a few of these...thanks for posting and yes you can see how several melody lines within Songs seem to have been borrowed. But I stand by my point. Cream has knicked melody, rhythm, voice, drum sosound ...a much more obvious and comprehensive steal [Edited 1/11/22 23:12pm] [Edited 1/11/22 23:14pm]


In reality, even before sampling, most music was/is derivative of what came before. That's literally how the artform progressed throughout the years.


Influence yes...complete and direct ripoff like Cream is another matter.
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Reply #42 posted 01/13/22 12:41pm

TrivialPursuit

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Buttox said:

lurker316 said:



I don't hear Raspberry Berret at all in this song.


It's the violin part.


Moreover, it's the hook in the bridge. But it's not uncommon to play the notes in any particular chord like that. It almost sounds weird in the other songs, knowing how Prince used it in a bridge. A bridge hook isn't typically something you hear well translated into the verse or chorus of a song.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #43 posted 01/13/22 3:44pm

LoveGalore

TrivialPursuit said:



Buttox said:


lurker316 said:




I don't hear Raspberry Berret at all in this song.




It's the violin part.


Moreover, it's the hook in the bridge. But it's not uncommon to play the notes in any particular chord like that. It almost sounds weird in the other songs, knowing how Prince used it in a bridge. A bridge hook isn't typically something you hear well translated into the verse or chorus of a song.



That's like saying eating steak doesn't typically translate well during dessert. A bridge and a hook are two totally different things. The bridge contrasts every other section of the song. I can't even think of a song where the bridge then becomes the hook because then it isn't the bridge anymore.
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Reply #44 posted 01/13/22 4:07pm

TrivialPursuit

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LoveGalore said:

That's like saying eating steak doesn't typically translate well during dessert. A bridge and a hook are two totally different things. The bridge contrasts every other section of the song. I can't even think of a song where the bridge then becomes the hook because then it isn't the bridge anymore.


What I meant was that the hook is so odd, it's weird that it's the main hook in another song (or a variation thereof). It sounds weird in the original song. In "Raspberry Beret" it sounds odd, but that it belongs there.

I remember Michael Fitzpatrick from Fitz and the Tantrums, saying he thought the thing that makes a song good is having a really good bridge. There was some song of theirs that they worked on a lot because the bridge was never right. It finally was. I've always sorta paid attention to the bridge of a song to see how it makes me feel.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #45 posted 01/13/22 6:41pm

LoveGalore

TrivialPursuit said:



LoveGalore said:


That's like saying eating steak doesn't typically translate well during dessert. A bridge and a hook are two totally different things. The bridge contrasts every other section of the song. I can't even think of a song where the bridge then becomes the hook because then it isn't the bridge anymore.


What I meant was that the hook is so odd, it's weird that it's the main hook in another song (or a variation thereof). It sounds weird in the original song. In "Raspberry Beret" it sounds odd, but that it belongs there.

I remember Michael Fitzpatrick from Fitz and the Tantrums, saying he thought the thing that makes a song good is having a really good bridge. There was some song of theirs that they worked on a lot because the bridge was never right. It finally was. I've always sorta paid attention to the bridge of a song to see how it makes me feel.



Agreed - to me, a good song doesn't have to have a bridge BUT a fire bridge makes even a boring song cool. "Diamonds and Pearls" instantly comes to mind where a bridge is almost the most iconic thing about a song. D to the I to the A to the M... Everyone remembers that.
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Reply #46 posted 01/13/22 7:39pm

ufoclub

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TrivialPursuit said:

Buttox said:

lurker316 said: It's the violin part.


Moreover, it's the hook in the bridge. But it's not uncommon to play the notes in any particular chord like that. It almost sounds weird in the other songs, knowing how Prince used it in a bridge. A bridge hook isn't typically something you hear well translated into the verse or chorus of a song.

lol Just playing the first few seconds, its OBVIOUS! You can sing "She wore a Raspberry Beret" right from the start.

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Reply #47 posted 01/14/22 7:00am

funkaholic1972

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ufoclub said:

TrivialPursuit said:


Moreover, it's the hook in the bridge. But it's not uncommon to play the notes in any particular chord like that. It almost sounds weird in the other songs, knowing how Prince used it in a bridge. A bridge hook isn't typically something you hear well translated into the verse or chorus of a song.

lol Just playing the first few seconds, its OBVIOUS! You can sing "She wore a Raspberry Beret" right from the start.

Well, the intro sounds kinda similar to the start of the violin melody in Raspberry Beret, but I would not call Raspberry Beret a rip off. The songs are very different, and the Buzzcocks one in turn reminds me a lot of "All day and all of the night" by The Kinks.

RIP Prince: thank U 4 a funky Time...
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Reply #48 posted 01/14/22 9:17am

ufoclub

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funkaholic1972 said:

ufoclub said:

lol Just playing the first few seconds, its OBVIOUS! You can sing "She wore a Raspberry Beret" right from the start.

Well, the intro sounds kinda similar to the start of the violin melody in Raspberry Beret, but I would not call Raspberry Beret a rip off. The songs are very different, and the Buzzcocks one in turn reminds me a lot of "All day and all of the night" by The Kinks.

I hear the Kinks song in the vocal to vocal comparison, but that music line definitely sound like a fragment of Raspberry Beret caught on the chorus over and over like a skipping record. I can completely imagine that Lisa played the melody and Prince ran with it in some studio jam setting.

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Reply #49 posted 01/14/22 9:19am

ufoclub

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TrivialPursuit said:

LoveGalore said:

That's like saying eating steak doesn't typically translate well during dessert. A bridge and a hook are two totally different things. The bridge contrasts every other section of the song. I can't even think of a song where the bridge then becomes the hook because then it isn't the bridge anymore.


What I meant was that the hook is so odd, it's weird that it's the main hook in another song (or a variation thereof). It sounds weird in the original song. In "Raspberry Beret" it sounds odd, but that it belongs there.

I remember Michael Fitzpatrick from Fitz and the Tantrums, saying he thought the thing that makes a song good is having a really good bridge. There was some song of theirs that they worked on a lot because the bridge was never right. It finally was. I've always sorta paid attention to the bridge of a song to see how it makes me feel.

Speaking of Fitz and the Tantrums, I was running camera on this as an odd job many years ago, and didn't know who the hell the band was, but they could perform live.

https://www.youtube.com/w...ob0cu_79vE

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Reply #50 posted 01/14/22 2:23pm

skywalker

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Buttox said:

skywalker said:

In reality, even before sampling, most music was/is derivative of what came before. That's literally how the artform progressed throughout the years.

Influence yes...complete and direct ripoff like Cream is another matter.

Meh. There's many shades in between black and white. This happens in pop music all the time. Delirious is basically a direct rip off of dozens of rock n' roll songs from the 50's. Did T. Rex sue Prince?

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #51 posted 01/15/22 8:25pm

LoveGalore

skywalker said:



Buttox said:


skywalker said:



In reality, even before sampling, most music was/is derivative of what came before. That's literally how the artform progressed throughout the years.



Influence yes...complete and direct ripoff like Cream is another matter.


Meh. There's many shades in between black and white. This happens in pop music all the time. Delirious is basically a direct rip off of dozens of rock n' roll songs from the 50's. Did T. Rex sue Prince?



I don't think they have to sue to prove the song is an obvious homage.

Also edit to say that I have no idea if Marc's estate is competent enough to sue anyway.
[Edited 1/15/22 20:26pm]
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Reply #52 posted 01/16/22 8:02am

skywalker

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LoveGalore said:

skywalker said:

Meh. There's many shades in between black and white. This happens in pop music all the time. Delirious is basically a direct rip off of dozens of rock n' roll songs from the 50's. Did T. Rex sue Prince?

I don't think they have to sue to prove the song is an obvious homage. Also edit to say that I have no idea if Marc's estate is competent enough to sue anyway. [Edited 1/15/22 20:26pm]

I am not saying that. I am just wondering if/why anyone is bothered by it. Cream is obviously an homage/influenced by Bang a Gong. The similarities have been mentioned since Cream was released.

-

As far as I can tell, Prince's legacy as a musical genius is in tact, the song was a monster hit from him, and T. Rex's statue didn't diminish either. Bang a Gong wasn't, tarnished/replaced or anything.

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #53 posted 01/16/22 11:11am

LoveGalore

skywalker said:



LoveGalore said:


skywalker said:



Meh. There's many shades in between black and white. This happens in pop music all the time. Delirious is basically a direct rip off of dozens of rock n' roll songs from the 50's. Did T. Rex sue Prince?



I don't think they have to sue to prove the song is an obvious homage. Also edit to say that I have no idea if Marc's estate is competent enough to sue anyway. [Edited 1/15/22 20:26pm]


I am not saying that. I am just wondering if/why anyone is bothered by it. Cream is obviously an homage/influenced by Bang a Gong. The similarities have been mentioned since Cream was released.


-


As far as I can tell, Prince's legacy as a musical genius is in tact, the song was a monster hit from him, and T. Rex's statue didn't diminish either. Bang a Gong wasn't, tarnished/replaced or anything.





Yeah but I agree with you.

I've stated virtually the same thing multiple times in this thread, haha. People reject the connection, seemingly, because their fragility can't handle the fact Prince was a man of references. Like many, many, many other singer-songwriters/musicians. I would actually find it weird if Prince never referenced Marc Bolan considering Marc was pivotal in bringing glam rock to the forefront. And since Prince was absolutely a glam rock artist throughout his career, it makes entire sense to me that he has at least one T Rex homage.
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Reply #54 posted 01/17/22 7:14am

Krid

I think it is actually nice when you can feel a bit of referencing in a song... (at least if you like the referenced song).

With Cream, I always also hear a bit of Addicted to Love - Robert Palmer - maybe it's the drums...

Thatnsong actually replaced "Kiss" from the number one spot in the USA...

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Reply #55 posted 01/17/22 8:11am

ufoclub

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Krid said:

I think it is actually nice when you can feel a bit of referencing in a song... (at least if you like the referenced song).

With Cream, I always also hear a bit of Addicted to Love - Robert Palmer - maybe it's the drums...

Thatnsong actually replaced "Kiss" from the number one spot in the USA...

I thought "U Got The Look" was his sped up response to "Addicted to Love"

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Reply #56 posted 01/17/22 11:40am

masaba

Listening to random old soul music you'll hear some random songs that Prince definitely drew inspiration from. Like Wilson Pickett's Ninety Nine and A Half Won't Do => 101.

https://youtu.be/yhX4liVtuCc
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Reply #57 posted 01/17/22 12:19pm

ForbiddenFruit

Here's something that never gets mentioned - what song does this part (3:40) remind me of?



https://youtu.be/6zQdALuqUCc?t=219

[Edited 1/17/22 12:20pm]

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Reply #58 posted 01/17/22 1:32pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

Did Prince rip off the start of The Orb's Perpetual Dawn with the intro for Live for Love? razz


If you're pro human rights, then you should also be very pro freedom from oppression. Anything less is double standards.

Music is the best.
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Reply #59 posted 01/17/22 3:23pm

LILpoundCAKE

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ForbiddenFruit said:

Here's something that never gets mentioned - what song does this part (3:40) remind me of?



https://youtu.be/6zQdALuqUCc?t=219

[Edited 1/17/22 12:20pm]


and it was released about a month before the initial tracking of Housequake eek

even more interesting: there is a vocal version of Papa Legba with Pops Staples on vocals,
as in Mavis' father.

...the one who will listen when all others will not....
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Stereogum: The Number Ones: Prince & The New Power Generation’s “Cream”