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Reply #60 posted 12/11/21 6:20am

lurker316

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lurker316 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

It's you who is speculating instead of looking at the facts.

.

https://musicfans.stackex...a/3719/129

.


Bart, there is nothing in the article you cite that contradicts what I wrote.

1.) It says the release was negotiated to "fulfill part of his contractual obligations"... which is exactly what I said.

2.) It aslo says "This didn't mean that Prince was all that happy with its release"... which is exactly what I said.

3.) Finally, the article is silent on whether there was a "one-time release" stipulation. Therefore, as I said, there is no factual evidence that such stipulation exists.

So this article supports (rather than contradicts) all of the points I made. What exactly do you think I got wrong? Please enlighten me.



[Edited 12/10/21 17:51pm]



Bart, I noticed you responded to other posts, but not mine. Typically if you believe you're right you'll keep arguing. It's when you realize you're wrong you go silent. You're bold enough to call people out for their mistakes, but not humble enough to admit when you've made your own.

Do you see the irony in admonishing me to "check the facts" and them citing an article that supports me? Next time, before you challenge me, perhaps you should check the facts.


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Reply #61 posted 12/11/21 9:07am

BartVanHemelen

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RODSERLING said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Because it was a one-off deal.

A one-off deal at one million $ to print how many copies? How do you define "one-off"?

.

Not known but at the time it was announced as a limited edition, and it became unavailable rather quickly after not selling huge numbers.

.


Again : what label currently owns The Black Album? You have absolutely no idea.

.

No, but considering the album was never reprinted and its songs were never included on any compilation, my guess is that the rights either went back to Prince, or they became part of whatever complicated legal mess a lot of that 1994/95 era output appears to be in (notice how TGE also went out of print and how compilations avoid its songs).

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #62 posted 12/11/21 9:21am

BartVanHemelen

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lurker316 said:

Bart, I noticed you responded to other posts, but not mine. Typically if you believe you're right you'll keep arguing. It's when you realize you're wrong you go silent. You're bold enough to call people out for their mistakes, but not humble enough to admit when you've made your own.

Do you see the irony in admonishing me to "check the facts" and them citing an article that supports me? Next time, before you challenge me, perhaps you should check the facts.


.

Do we know for sure that it was a one-time release? Well, let's see, does it behave like a one-time release? Oh look, it does. Does all the evidence suggest it was a one-time release? Yup.

.

As for the facts: you said "he only begrudgingly agreed to allow WB to release TBA to get out of his contract" and while that was originally part of the negotiations, in the end that didn't happen. See also https://musicfans.stackex...a/2171/129 .

.

You said "speculation that there was an agreement at the time that it would be a one-time only release with no re-releases permitted" and sure, that's speculation but it is speculation supported by the observable facts.

.

It looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quaks like a duck -- call me crazy but I'd say chances are it is a duck. Is that speculation? Sure, but it's not like I said some random object is a duck. We'll likely never get the truth of all that went on back then, quite frankly I'm astonished we know so much behind the scenes details already.

.

See also: the speculation that at one point Warners told Prince to stop releasing Warner-era outtakes and live recordings via NPGMC et al. Do we know that for sure? Nope. But the observable facts are that he did this repeatedly, and then suddenly stopped doing it and never did it again, and that the few times he did go back to a known outtake, he re-recorded that song. (Honestly, the crazy thing from that era is Warners allowing him to get away with so much blatant infringement; I mean at one time they released a cassette rip from a song that was a B-Side during the D&P era via NPGMC! The least crazy thing is thinking that Warners sent him a C&D.)

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #63 posted 12/11/21 2:25pm

MadeUpName

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The Estate's vinyl webpage added pre-orders of 6 reprint catalog titles on Sony Legacy, all on 150g black vinyl:

FOR YOU https://store.prince.com/...233_103248

PRINCE https://store.prince.com/...233_103248

DIRTY MIND https://store.prince.com/...233_103248

CONTROVERSY https://store.prince.com/...233_103248

1999 https://store.prince.com/...233_103248

ATWIAD https://store.prince.com/...233_103248

The page for 1999 doesn't indicate if it's the original mastered or the remastered.

I wonder if they'll also have another reprint of the remastered SOTT at the same time seeing as Target is getting this exclusive the same week: https://www.target.com/p/...A-85383181 I see that The Estate store still has some Warner copies remaining, but I'll bet there will be a Sony Legacy reprint on 150g black vinyl after that stock sells out. Or perhaps on teal vinyl! Or purple vinyl... LOL.

"purplelectricity whenever our bodies touch"
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Reply #64 posted 12/11/21 9:48pm

timmie

https://store.prince.com/...233_103249

And the CD page has:
FOR YOU
PRINCE
DIRTY MIND
CONTROVERSY
1999
AROUND THE WORLD IN A DAY
LOVESEXY
HITS 1
HITS 2
COME
THE VAULT OLD FRIENDS 4 SALE
[Edited 12/11/21 21:54pm]
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Reply #65 posted 12/12/21 12:02am

RODSERLING

Vannormal said:



RODSERLING said:


Poplife88 said:

For You vinyl has been hard to find in stores and online at a decent price the last couple years. I have my old vinyl that I bought in the 80s and I would welcome an update.





Strange, because in France I often saw it in various middle sized towns, amd I still see it. [Edited 12/8/21 7:50am]

...évidemment, les villes moyennes Français,


comme si j’y venais tous les jours. LOL


I was in the city of Lille last month, did three lazy record shops, couldn't find a thing.


Although FNAC had some resonable priced stuff.


Did spend some time in Paris too... not easy to find Prince stuff there either.


And when there''s something to find, it's seriously overprised mostly, plus in poor condition.


My experience in Germany, Denmark and Sweden are far better.


Great to dig some old vinyl crates.




Haha, I was in Lille too last month!
Went to the Fnac and Furet du Nord. Don't remember what there was in vinyl, besides the several last estate releases.
Go in Amiens, there is still For You and Prince ( and the Time, Sheila E..)

In the national store Carrefour, I often saw Controversy through the years. I don't know why they printed this album so much for the casual consumers.
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Reply #66 posted 12/12/21 11:58am

homesquid

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They couldn't at least add B-Sides to these? What are they saving them for? Do we really anticipate a ATWIAD Deluxe??

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Reply #67 posted 12/12/21 12:36pm

RODSERLING

homesquid said:

They couldn't at least add B-Sides to these? What are they saving them for? Do we really anticipate a ATWIAD Deluxe??



You know, when Prince was alive, I could have luved with reissues with only one disc of b-sides, remixes, etc. , or even not wn additional disc but on the disc of the album itself.
I would have still been happy with this.
Why WB couldn't do that, circa 2004, etc?

If Sony bought the rights to Musicology, etc. Why couldn't they add the b-sides to it?
Simple lazyness, lack of care, or simply they don't have the rights?
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Reply #68 posted 12/12/21 1:49pm

homesquid

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RODSERLING said:

homesquid said:

They couldn't at least add B-Sides to these? What are they saving them for? Do we really anticipate a ATWIAD Deluxe??

You know, when Prince was alive, I could have luved with reissues with only one disc of b-sides, remixes, etc. , or even not wn additional disc but on the disc of the album itself. I would have still been happy with this. Why WB couldn't do that, circa 2004, etc? If Sony bought the rights to Musicology, etc. Why couldn't they add the b-sides to it? Simple lazyness, lack of care, or simply they don't have the rights?

Yeah but the WB stuff. Surely Sony has the rights to "She's Always In My Hair", "Girl" and "Hello". What future project will these end up on? I mean I would adore an ATWIAD deluxe if that's even possible. It's too bad they didn't ask Rhino to do reissues.

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Reply #69 posted 12/12/21 11:24pm

RODSERLING

homesquid said:



RODSERLING said:


homesquid said:

They couldn't at least add B-Sides to these? What are they saving them for? Do we really anticipate a ATWIAD Deluxe??



You know, when Prince was alive, I could have luved with reissues with only one disc of b-sides, remixes, etc. , or even not wn additional disc but on the disc of the album itself. I would have still been happy with this. Why WB couldn't do that, circa 2004, etc? If Sony bought the rights to Musicology, etc. Why couldn't they add the b-sides to it? Simple lazyness, lack of care, or simply they don't have the rights?


Yeah but the WB stuff. Surely Sony has the rights to "She's Always In My Hair", "Girl" and "Hello". What future project will these end up on? I mean I would adore an ATWIAD deluxe if that's even possible. It's too bad they didn't ask Rhino to do reissues.



" They" Don't even succeed in releasing an SDE each year, so I won't hold my breath on a ATWIAD deluxe.
D&P, Parade and Purple Rain SDEs will be released before anything else.
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Reply #70 posted 12/13/21 3:14am

Vannormal

homesquid said:

They couldn't at least add B-Sides to these? What are they saving them for? Do we really anticipate a ATWIAD Deluxe??

I do. smile

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #71 posted 12/13/21 4:14pm

lastdecember

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I have a feeling from what we see here we can get an idea of what we are not going to see coming from the estate, meaning I doubt a ATWID or For You or Prince etc....vault type issues. I still think there is a major issue with Gold Experience because of TMBGITW and I know some might say take the song off, but I have a feeling Prince has something somewhere in some contract that no issues of albums can be changed. The love symbol I think could see a vault type issue because it has stuff that was removed switched out, and also I have an idea we could see a concert dvd from that era tour. I think that's probably sadly the last commercial appealing type of issue that they might do from the 90's and on. As much as I want to see a Come Gold type issue with the way he wanted it I think there's so much red tape and things out of wack, this is not a Beatles type of situation where all the albums are in play for reissues and deluxes .


"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
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Reply #72 posted 12/13/21 9:57pm

Alej

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Personally, I do not own Prince and Controversy on vinyl and I just ordered both for US$50, so I'm not mad. It's actually not expensive at all.

I'm excited excited

The orger formerly known as theodore
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Reply #73 posted 12/14/21 9:36pm

dm3857

Disappointed that most of these have been apart of the rereleases the past few years.. I mean there is literally 3 copies of for you at my local books a million as of yesterday.. excited about Lovesexy and Come, but where is..

• Vanity 6
• The Family
• D&P
• the love symbol
• black album
• the gold experience
• crystal ball
• Exodus
• New power Soul


& it still baffles me that a large chunk of his officially released material is still not on streaming service’s half a decade after his passing.
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Reply #74 posted 12/14/21 10:50pm

RODSERLING

dm3857 said:

Disappointed that most of these have been apart of the rereleases the past few years.. I mean there is literally 3 copies of for you at my local books a million as of yesterday.. excited about Lovesexy and Come, but where is..

• Vanity 6
• The Family
• D&P
• the love symbol
• black album
• the gold experience
• crystal ball
• Exodus
• New power Soul


& it still baffles me that a large chunk of his officially released material is still not on streaming service’s half a decade after his passing.



What's exciting about Lovesexy and Come? 😂
They were already available in stores.
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Reply #75 posted 12/14/21 11:06pm

love2thenines2
003

These releases for fans are purely useless....no excitement for me in a way or others neutral
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Reply #76 posted 12/15/21 12:07am

dm3857

RODSERLING said:

dm3857 said:
Disappointed that most of these have been apart of the rereleases the past few years.. I mean there is literally 3 copies of for you at my local books a million as of yesterday.. excited about Lovesexy and Come, but where is.. • Vanity 6 • The Family • D&P • the love symbol • black album • the gold experience • crystal ball • Exodus • New power Soul & it still baffles me that a large chunk of his officially released material is still not on streaming service’s half a decade after his passing.
What's exciting about Lovesexy and Come? 😂 They were already available in stores.

Yeah, they were available in stores 25 years ago... They have been out of print for a long time. I actually just looked for come on vinyl out of curiosity and you can buy it used for an absurd price, the average prie on discogs.com says 202 dollars.. meanwhile i can get for you at books a million for 20 bucks.. that's what i was referring to.

[Edited 12/15/21 0:08am]

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Reply #77 posted 12/15/21 12:42am

RODSERLING

dm3857 said:



RODSERLING said:


dm3857 said:
Disappointed that most of these have been apart of the rereleases the past few years.. I mean there is literally 3 copies of for you at my local books a million as of yesterday.. excited about Lovesexy and Come, but where is.. • Vanity 6 • The Family • D&P • the love symbol • black album • the gold experience • crystal ball • Exodus • New power Soul & it still baffles me that a large chunk of his officially released material is still not on streaming service’s half a decade after his passing.

What's exciting about Lovesexy and Come? 😂 They were already available in stores.


Yeah, they were available in stores 25 years ago... They have been out of print for a long time. I actually just looked for come on vinyl out of curiosity and you can buy it used for an absurd price, the average prie on discogs.com says 202 dollars.. meanwhile i can get for you at books a million for 20 bucks.. that's what i was referring to.

[Edited 12/15/21 0:08am]



Lovesexy amd Come are not reissued on vinyl, or have I skipped an episode?
Lovesexy was never out of print, I always saw it in stores since I m a Prince fam (2002).
I never saw Come though, as I said, it wasn't printed anymore, at least by WB.
[Edited 12/15/21 3:36am]
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Reply #78 posted 12/15/21 8:09am

darkroman

Pointless!

Many of those titles have already been re-issued in the last five years.

The Prince Estate continually prove themselves to be run by the mentally disabled.

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Reply #79 posted 12/15/21 3:17pm

TrivialPursuit

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darkroman said:

Pointless!

Many of those titles have already been re-issued in the last five years.

The Prince Estate continually prove themselves to be run by the mentally disabled.


It's pointless to you. They have a plan, which frankly has been laid out 100x on here.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #80 posted 12/15/21 8:28pm

embmmusic

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darkroman said:

Pointless!

Many of those titles have already been re-issued in the last five years.

The Prince Estate continually prove themselves to be run by the mentally disabled.

Don't use that as an insult. I'm mentally disabled and still a functional member of society. We aren't gibbering idiots, we're people.

Check out The Collector's Guide to Prince on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/p...4ldzxwlEuy
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Reply #81 posted 12/16/21 5:43am

darkroman

TrivialPursuit said:

darkroman said:

Pointless!

Many of those titles have already been re-issued in the last five years.

The Prince Estate continually prove themselves to be run by the mentally disabled.


It's pointless to you. They have a plan, which frankly has been laid out 100x on here.


No, they don't have a plan.

In 2016, I stongly believe they did not have a roadmap that detailed those re-issues in February 2022.

What we do know is who has the rights to what.

What we don't know is exactly what that is and when that is.

So there is no plan!

neutral

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Reply #82 posted 12/16/21 6:24am

RODSERLING

They have a plan? My ass.

I was right, again.
Dr Funkenberry apparently said "they" Were atill hesitating between Parade and D&P.
Thanks the trolls here that were kept on saying for months they didn't want a D&P SDE.
Don't expect it before the end of the year... 2022.
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Reply #83 posted 12/16/21 7:17am

love2thenines2
003

RODSERLING said:

They have a plan? My ass. I was right, again. Dr Funkenberry apparently said "they" Were atill hesitating between Parade and D&P. Thanks the trolls here that were kept on saying for months they didn't want a D&P SDE. Don't expect it before the end of the year... 2022.

anyway....plan or not except if the box is already made stocked somewhere & ready to go.....they need several months to made a box (vinyls/cds etc..) so this is a long way to go before something in our hands !

[Edited 12/16/21 7:18am]

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Reply #84 posted 12/16/21 8:09am

RODSERLING

love2thenines2003 said:



RODSERLING said:


They have a plan? My ass. I was right, again. Dr Funkenberry apparently said "they" Were atill hesitating between Parade and D&P. Thanks the trolls here that were kept on saying for months they didn't want a D&P SDE. Don't expect it before the end of the year... 2022.


anyway....plan or not except if the box is already made stocked somewhere & ready to go.....they need several months to made a box (vinyls/cds etc..) so this is a long way to go before something in our hands !

[Edited 12/16/21 7:18am]



Just for the vinyls they need at least four months between the official announcement and the actual release.
Let's just hope they scheduled something else before, but it seems unlikely.

Sony just went to acquire some WB rights, that means D&P would be a Sony/WB release, amd as I suspected it for months, there are some unresolved issues between all the parts involved.
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Reply #85 posted 12/16/21 8:24am

love2thenines2
003

RODSERLING said:

love2thenines2003 said:

anyway....plan or not except if the box is already made stocked somewhere & ready to go.....they need several months to made a box (vinyls/cds etc..) so this is a long way to go before something in our hands !

[Edited 12/16/21 7:18am]

Just for the vinyls they need at least four months between the official announcement and the actual release. Let's just hope they scheduled something else before, but it seems unlikely. Sony just went to acquire some WB rights, that means D&P would be a Sony/WB release, amd as I suspected it for months, there are some unresolved issues between all the parts involved.

Sony rights are only for back catalogue (except PR/Parade/GB/Black Album and some others) but no aggreement for Vault material & remastering.....they need both...agreement from WB/The Estate for WB Era & The Estate agreement for the other periods .....at this stage ....their imput is very limited to press records without any bonus & remastering process.

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Reply #86 posted 12/16/21 8:32am

RODSERLING

love2thenines2003 said:



RODSERLING said:


love2thenines2003 said:



anyway....plan or not except if the box is already made stocked somewhere & ready to go.....they need several months to made a box (vinyls/cds etc..) so this is a long way to go before something in our hands !


[Edited 12/16/21 7:18am]



Just for the vinyls they need at least four months between the official announcement and the actual release. Let's just hope they scheduled something else before, but it seems unlikely. Sony just went to acquire some WB rights, that means D&P would be a Sony/WB release, amd as I suspected it for months, there are some unresolved issues between all the parts involved.


Sony rights are only for back catalogue (except PR/Parade/GB/Black Album and some others) but no aggreement for Vault material & remastering.....they need both...agreement from WB/The Estate for WB Era & The Estate agreement for the other periods .....at this stage ....their imput is very limited to press records without any bonus & remastering process.



I know that very well, but that's not the point here.

D&P the album, doesn't belong anymore 100% to WB.
They have to share some rights with Sony.
Then why would they bother release it now, when they can release a soundtrack from which they have 100% of the rights?

It's been months I m asking that question.
WB had a window to release it for 2021, but they passed on the option.
Now it must be a mess in negotiations between the two labels.
[Edited 12/16/21 8:39am]
[Edited 12/16/21 8:40am]
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Reply #87 posted 12/16/21 8:58am

love2thenines2
003

RODSERLING said:

love2thenines2003 said:

Sony rights are only for back catalogue (except PR/Parade/GB/Black Album and some others) but no aggreement for Vault material & remastering.....they need both...agreement from WB/The Estate for WB Era & The Estate agreement for the other periods .....at this stage ....their imput is very limited to press records without any bonus & remastering process.

I know that very well, but that's not the point here. D&P the album, doesn't belong anymore 100% to WB. They have to share some rights with Sony. Then why would they bother release it now, when they can release a soundtrack from which they have 100% of the rights? It's been months I m asking that question. WB had a window to release it for 2021, but they passed on the option. Now it must be a mess in negotiations between the two labels. [Edited 12/16/21 8:39am] [Edited 12/16/21 8:40am]

.....nope.....rights from all the unreleased stuff where Prince was under WB contract belong to WB and not Sony !

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Reply #88 posted 12/16/21 9:00am

RODSERLING

love2thenines2003 said:



RODSERLING said:


love2thenines2003 said:



Sony rights are only for back catalogue (except PR/Parade/GB/Black Album and some others) but no aggreement for Vault material & remastering.....they need both...agreement from WB/The Estate for WB Era & The Estate agreement for the other periods .....at this stage ....their imput is very limited to press records without any bonus & remastering process.



I know that very well, but that's not the point here. D&P the album, doesn't belong anymore 100% to WB. They have to share some rights with Sony. Then why would they bother release it now, when they can release a soundtrack from which they have 100% of the rights? It's been months I m asking that question. WB had a window to release it for 2021, but they passed on the option. Now it must be a mess in negotiations between the two labels. [Edited 12/16/21 8:39am] [Edited 12/16/21 8:40am]



.....nope.....rights from all the unreleased stuff where Prince was under WB contract belong to WB and not Sony !



D&P, the album that sold 7 millions copies worldwide, unreleased stuff?

Or would you imply the SDE of D&P won't include the album itself?
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Reply #89 posted 12/16/21 10:23am

love2thenines2
003

RODSERLING said:

love2thenines2003 said:

.....nope.....rights from all the unreleased stuff where Prince was under WB contract belong to WB and not Sony !

D&P, the album that sold 7 millions copies worldwide, unreleased stuff? Or would you imply the SDE of D&P won't include the album itself?

from my understanding but i can be wrong ......WB/The Estate can release D&P SDE (official and unreleased content) because Warner has always under control the Vault material from this era & rights for distribution in some parts of the world ..if they decide to release it..they can do it !

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