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Thread started 11/20/21 3:56pm

wahclavinet

Did working late into the night help P work better? David Frank (The System) ref'd 777-9311 when talking late night work

Thinking of late nights at Sunset Sound, cool hearing Susan Rogers new interview on the For Keeps podcast. Can't remember if I heard the story about Prince buying champagne in the studio after she bought her condo on Lake Harriet before.

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Jimmy Jam has said The System is a group he & Terry really liked and were influenced by.

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Great quote in Sound on Sound from David Frank of The System about working better late at night:

"When you're really tired, you don't tend to be as careful about how you put things together, so things just come out and it's freer... You're not in a normal state of mind at all, it's all just imaginary: you're just imagining a little sonic environment and putting yourself in it. That's what I did then and, within five or six hours, I had come up with pretty much the whole instrumental track for what was to become 'Genie In A Bottle'."

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The arrangement has a rapid bass drum pattern which continues throughout most of the song... David actually drew his inspiration for this from his own experiences in the '80s: "When I was in The System we did an album called Sweat. At the time no-one had ever featured a 32nd-note bass drum pattern. It had not really been conceived of yet, although there was one song that had done it with a hi-hat, by a band called The Time. We did it on the Sweat album, in the song of the same name.

.

Never thought before this that working late into the night might have helped P be freer & more imaginitive in the studio... Cool thought.

[Edited 11/20/21 15:59pm]

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Reply #1 posted 11/20/21 6:53pm

Hamad

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Great find.

I saw an interview of Duke Ellington where he said something similar, something to the effect that when composers work late and feel sleep deprived, they tend to dream fluidly which can open a floodgate of ideas.

I imagine that’s a common theme among all creatives who are serious about their craft.
Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...

Twitter: https://twitter.com/QLH82
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Reply #2 posted 11/20/21 7:16pm

wahclavinet

Cool. Hadn't heard the Duke Ellington quote before. Makes me think of All My Dreams and how Prince talked about dreaming about songs a lot too.

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Reply #3 posted 11/20/21 7:37pm

Hamad

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Duke talked about “dreaming” in most of his interviews, how they were the driving force behind almost all of his compositions. Prince talked about the same thing too, how he would brush his teeth and all of a sudden a groove shows up.
Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...

Twitter: https://twitter.com/QLH82
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Reply #4 posted 11/21/21 7:31am

OperatingTheta
n

Hamad said:

Great find.

I saw an interview of Duke Ellington where he said something similar, something to the effect that when composers work late and feel sleep deprived, they tend to dream fluidly which can open a floodgate of ideas.

I imagine that’s a common theme among all creatives who are serious about their craft.


I think Prince's 'Future Soul Song' is likely inspired by that kind of deep, lucid dreaming.
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Reply #5 posted 11/21/21 7:58am

udo

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Bullshit conclusions: they still think Prince was a normal person...

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #6 posted 11/21/21 8:09am

funkaholic1972

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David Frank and The System are legends in my opinion. Many artists were very influenced by his early 80's work with synths, drum machines and sequencers. cool

RIP Prince: thank U 4 a funky Time...
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Reply #7 posted 11/22/21 10:09am

wahclavinet

funkaholic1972 said:

David Frank and The System are legends in my opinion. Many artists were very influenced by his early 80's work with synths, drum machines and sequencers. cool

Definitely. Only found out in the past 5-10 years that they were an influence on Jimmy & Terry. Always seemed like Prince was a big influence on them - and knew for sure when I saw Mic Murphy on the motorcyle in this 1985 video: https://youtu.be/J8IgW_PXb_Y

Looks like he's riding his bike through the same kind of railroad areas Prince rode through in Purple Rain.

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Reply #8 posted 11/22/21 10:13am

udo

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Prince worked into the night because the day was too short.

He had the drive, he had the energy to get things done an dtook along mere normal humans to get to his target.

The fact that it was night did not matter.

He still wanted his Susan, his Revolution members, his strings, his vocals, etc.

If one does not get that, then why are you here instead of reading books?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #9 posted 11/23/21 3:37am

herb4

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udo said:

Prince worked into the night because the day was too short.

He had the drive, he had the energy to get things done an dtook along mere normal humans to get to his target.

The fact that it was night did not matter.

He still wanted his Susan, his Revolution members, his strings, his vocals, etc.

If one does not get that, then why are you here instead of reading books?


So, is your thing just to go around the org and dress people down who are "doing Prince wrong"?

Just casually, I've noticed you telling people to read, listen more, listen to the correct stuff and not hold opinions about material 2 years later (calling them a "sad individual")



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Reply #10 posted 11/23/21 3:56am

SchlomoThaHomo

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herb4 said:

udo said:

Prince worked into the night because the day was too short.

He had the drive, he had the energy to get things done an dtook along mere normal humans to get to his target.

The fact that it was night did not matter.

He still wanted his Susan, his Revolution members, his strings, his vocals, etc.

If one does not get that, then why are you here instead of reading books?


So, is your thing just to go around the org and dress people down who are "doing Prince wrong"?

Just casually, I've noticed you telling people to read, listen more, listen to the correct stuff and not hold opinions about material 2 years later (calling them a "sad individual")




Some people around here hold their own opinions in too high regard, and tend to present them as such.

"That's when stars collide. When there's space for what u want, and ur heart is open wide."
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Reply #11 posted 11/23/21 4:02am

udo

avatar

herb4 said:

Just casually, I've noticed you telling people to read, listen more, listen to the correct stuff and not hold opinions about material 2 years later (calling them a "sad individual")

.

So?

What are you saying here and what relation does it have to working late into the night?

.

Do you assume people cannot change? Cannot err? Etc?

I do.

But the list of posts here indicates the contrary: oeple are on we website dedicated to a certain deceased individual yet know NOTHING about them.

They do not read, watch nor listen, apparently.

.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #12 posted 11/23/21 5:46am

Se7en

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Maybe in the beginning Prince preferred to work into the wee hours so there were fewer "suits" hanging around?! cool

Seriously though, I think Prince would record whenever the inspiration suited him. It's been noted that Paisley Park was mic'd up in every room for when inspiration hit.

Imagine having every musical instrument at your disposal 24/7, and the talent to use them . . . would you treat that as a 9-5 job?

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Reply #13 posted 11/23/21 6:28am

donnadiavolo

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It is true that drowsiness aids in the process, though I'm not sure Prince utilised it in the same way as other creatives. For example (I'm sure this is general knowledge), Salvador Dali would sit in a chair at night bearing a key in his hand, and when that key fell just as he was beginning to dream, it would land upon a plate and make some noise to wake him and he'd end up with new visions/images/ideas to work with.

We are the flowers growin' in God's garden
And that is why he spreads the shit around
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Reply #14 posted 11/23/21 7:15am

JorisE73

udo said:

herb4 said:

Just casually, I've noticed you telling people to read, listen more, listen to the correct stuff and not hold opinions about material 2 years later (calling them a "sad individual")

.

So?

What are you saying here and what relation does it have to working late into the night?

.

Do you assume people cannot change? Cannot err? Etc?

I do.

But the list of posts here indicates the contrary: oeple are on we website dedicated to a certain deceased individual yet know NOTHING about them.

They do not read, watch nor listen, apparently.

.


Neither do you. You're just like the rest here: a consumer who bought the hype.
Don't pretend as if you're some high and mighty person who 'knew' Prince. He only alowed you to know about him what he wanted you to know and for the rest it's just specualtion on hear-say.

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Reply #15 posted 11/23/21 8:28am

herb4

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SchlomoThaHomo said:

herb4 said:


So, is your thing just to go around the org and dress people down who are "doing Prince wrong"?

Just casually, I've noticed you telling people to read, listen more, listen to the correct stuff and not hold opinions about material 2 years later (calling them a "sad individual")




Some people around here hold their own opinions in too high regard, and tend to present them as such.


Well, that's fine. I do the same thing (it's an opinion drven message board) but I don't lecture people on the right way to listen to music, WHAT to listen to, what to read, how to look at movies, etc.

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Reply #16 posted 11/23/21 8:50am

herb4

avatar

udo said:

herb4 said:

Just casually, I've noticed you telling people to read, listen more, listen to the correct stuff and not hold opinions about material 2 years later (calling them a "sad individual")

.

So?

What are you saying here and what relation does it have to working late into the night?

.

Do you assume people cannot change? Cannot err? Etc?

I do.

But the list of posts here indicates the contrary: oeple are on we website dedicated to a certain deceased individual yet know NOTHING about them.

They do not read, watch nor listen, apparently.

.


The people (still) posting here know more about Prince and his music than most anyone on the planet.

I can't parse a lot of your post but you're telling people to "Read More" in a phone posting style that's littered with spelling, grammatical and formatting errors. Always a treacherous road. Or at least it used to be before drive by, Twitter/YouTube comment writing became the norm.

I don't know you and don't pretend to but you've popped up in a few threads I've been reading so, based on the content I've seen you offer thus far, decided to peruse your post history a little bit to see if you're always like this and you come off as a little aggressive, all knowing and rather preachy.

We already have a Bart.

...

On topic: Prince Working Into the Night:

Sure, it makes sense. Back when I was young and full of artistic fire, I did the same thing and so did the best artists I knew. "All Nighters" were common and it showed in our work. I did a ton of my best work late into the evening/early morning. Could be that there are fewer distractions during those hours or maybe because I had finished the rudimentary and mundane things I had to do during the day by then.

Prince never stopped working.

The only part of your post(s) I took (take) issue with is how you close with admonishing people to stop posting here and go "read books" instead and telling them they are listening to his music incorrectly in other threads; here and in other threads. Out of curiosity, what's the last book you read and what are a few of your favorites? Any recommendations for the less enlightened posters/fans here?

You come off as a little hostile, a touch angry and rather arrogant. I find it weird and more than a little off putting but...

Maybe it's just me.

Carry on

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Reply #17 posted 11/23/21 11:31pm

udo

avatar

herb4 said:

to see if you're always like this and you come off as a little aggressive, all knowing and rather preachy.

.

Agressive in what way? When people are here I must assume that they are into Prince, know at least a few things, and perhaps had a few concert experinces.

No, instead I get people that do not even get the most basic things that made Prince to be Prince.

I never mentiond that I know it all.

Preachy is the style of writing. Not chosen but now we know what you call it.

.

We already have a Bart.

.

Bart is different.

The only part of your post(s) I took (take) issue with is how you close with admonishing people to stop posting here and go "read books" instead and telling them they are listening to his music incorrectly in other threads; here and in other threads. Out of curiosity, what's the last book you read and what are a few of your favorites? Any recommendations for the less enlightened posters/fans here?

.

In the Prince area I read the latest Duane Tudahl book, about parade-era sessions.

After that I red a few ducth langage titles.

.

You come off as a little hostile,

.

Should I have mercy for ignorance?

.

a touch angry

.

Due to repeated ignorance.

.

and rather arrogant.

.

Comes with anger?

Please bear in mind that 'english' is not my first language.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #18 posted 11/24/21 2:47am

Vannormal

udo said:

herb4 said:

to see if you're always like this and you come off as a little aggressive, all knowing and rather preachy.

.

Agressive in what way? When people are here I must assume that they are into Prince, know at least a few things, and perhaps had a few concert experinces.

No, instead I get people that do not even get the most basic things that made Prince to be Prince.

I never mentiond that I know it all.

Preachy is the style of writing. Not chosen but now we know what you call it.

Due to repeated ignorance.

.

and rather arrogant.

.

Comes with anger?

Please bear in mind that 'english' is not my first language.

English isn't my first language either, but it's all very clear and understandable though the way you state things (here).

And not accepting ignorance (double or tripple) is not to justify either.

Just sayin'.

Arrogance by the way is a cover up for insecurity, mostly anyways.

But you don't come off as arrogant to me. smile

Peace to all of us.

(As if...) It seems like frustrations are about to happen every time here, when there is not (good) Prince news at all.

imho of course.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #19 posted 11/24/21 4:22am

LoveGalore

udo said:



herb4 said:


to see if you're always like this and you come off as a little aggressive, all knowing and rather preachy.



.


Agressive in what way? When people are here I must assume that they are into Prince, know at least a few things, and perhaps had a few concert experinces.


No, instead I get people that do not even get the most basic things that made Prince to be Prince.


I never mentiond that I know it all.


Preachy is the style of writing. Not chosen but now we know what you call it.


.




We already have a Bart.




.


Bart is different.




The only part of your post(s) I took (take) issue with is how you close with admonishing people to stop posting here and go "read books" instead and telling them they are listening to his music incorrectly in other threads; here and in other threads. Out of curiosity, what's the last book you read and what are a few of your favorites? Any recommendations for the less enlightened posters/fans here?



.


In the Prince area I read the latest Duane Tudahl book, about parade-era sessions.


After that I red a few ducth langage titles.


.



You come off as a little hostile,



.


Should I have mercy for ignorance?


.



a touch angry



.


Due to repeated ignorance.


.



and rather arrogant.



.


Comes with anger?


Please bear in mind that 'english' is not my first language.




Ignorance is part of life. You were ignorant too.

Judging by your posts, you still are to some fair degree.
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Reply #20 posted 11/24/21 2:20pm

udo

avatar

Did OP ever see or read a Suan Rogers interview?

Read a Duane Tudahl Book? Per Nilssen?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #21 posted 11/25/21 10:23am

wahclavinet

donnadiavolo said:

Salvador Dali would sit in a chair at night bearing a key in his hand, and when that key fell just as he was beginning to dream, it would land upon a plate and make some noise to wake him and he'd end up with new visions/images/ideas to work with.

Great story. I have read almost every book and heard almost every interview, and I know all about P's history and his many reasons for working late in the studio. This thread is about the concept of being more creative & imaginitive when being really tired.

[Edited 11/25/21 10:23am]

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Reply #22 posted 11/26/21 2:37am

Vannormal

Last night I watched the first part (a 2 and a 1/5 hour documentary) of ''Get Back'' by Peter Jackson about the making of a TV show and an album by The Beatles.

Jackson clearly assembled some shots so we can see what fatigue and exhaustion leads to.

(By the way it is a FANTATSTIC documentary - very endearing and McCartney's character comes out very strongly, and Ringo shows his invisible silent force.)

-

Sure, there are musicians where the fatigue might work, i won't deny that.

I just imagine Prince was a real exception to the rule.

The Studio also seemed the only place where he fully could be himself in creating.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Did working late into the night help P work better? David Frank (The System) ref'd 777-9311 when talking late night work