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Thread started 11/18/21 11:08pm

thebanishedone

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How did Prince become punk?

Prince at the early days was mixing funk soul with classic rock but from Dirty Mind music and stage image had adopted new wave and punk influence.how did that happen? Was it becayse of Dez? Some say its because of Rick James but Rick never had those punk vibes. what made Prince attend gigs by Plasmatics?
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Reply #1 posted 11/19/21 12:01am

KoolEaze

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Punk was still strong in the early 80s, and he was absorbing all kinds of styles from the UK....from Adam and the Ants and the New Romantics to Punk and synth pop....whether in his clothing or in his musical style, or little details like that Rude Boy pin.

I like the Punk version of When Doves Cry that he played during a rehearsal.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #2 posted 11/19/21 12:58am

Vannormal

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The only punk Prince had was in his outfit tbh.

Not in his songwriting.

Punk was so different for what it actually was and meant at the time.

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #3 posted 11/19/21 2:14am

Vannormal

KoolEaze said:

Punk was still strong in the early 80s, and he was absorbing all kinds of styles from the UK....from Adam and the Ants and the New Romantics to Punk and synth pop....whether in his clothing or in his musical style, or little details like that Rude Boy pin.

I like the Punk version of When Doves Cry that he played during a rehearsal.

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A punk version...

...of 'When Doves Cry' ?

Where can we hear this ?

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #4 posted 11/19/21 5:12am

JorisE73

thebanishedone said:

Prince at the early days was mixing funk soul with classic rock but from Dirty Mind music and stage image had adopted new wave and punk influence.how did that happen? Was it becayse of Dez? Some say its because of Rick James but Rick never had those punk vibes. what made Prince attend gigs by Plasmatics?


Rick called himself the originator of Punk-Funk and his attitude back then was punk-ish.

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Reply #5 posted 11/19/21 5:51am

TrevorAyer

Duran Duran sold a zillion and prince wanted some of dat.

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Reply #6 posted 11/19/21 6:07am

Phase3

Vannormal said:



KoolEaze said:


Punk was still strong in the early 80s, and he was absorbing all kinds of styles from the UK....from Adam and the Ants and the New Romantics to Punk and synth pop....whether in his clothing or in his musical style, or little details like that Rude Boy pin.


I like the Punk version of When Doves Cry that he played during a rehearsal.



-


A punk version...


...of 'When Doves Cry' ?


Where can we hear this ?


-


When doves scream might be the song KoolEaze was referring to
[Edited 11/19/21 6:08am]
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Reply #7 posted 11/19/21 6:42am

herb4

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It was just a product of the times. Prince seemed to always be listening to everything that was happening and incorporating it into his style and kind of invented punk funk. It's not the signature influence on his early 80's sound but it's there - and beyond the fashion. "Sister", "Party Up", "Ronnie Talk to Russia", "Jack U Off" all have hints of it.

I'd say he adapted more from the new wave sound that overtook punk just when he was coming on the scene and, throughout his career, bascially threw everything in a blender to make something original.

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Reply #8 posted 11/22/21 12:49pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

He admired the energy of The Clash back then, reportedly. There was also The Fall, but he probably missed them as they only had a cult following. Their punk is kind funky and though I've only just started listening to them, it sounds like they're gonna have more killer riffs than any band in history. Take that, Zeppelin and Sabbath fans!

Prince wasn't really punk at all, stylistically, and didn't dress punk either. There's a little bit of influence on the Dirty Mind and Controversy albums. But that's about it. Punk shares the same energy as metal and grunge, 'gotta break through this wall, obstacle' aesthetic. A couple of his guitar solos are metal and Poor goo is grunge. Let's hope there's a punk album in the vault.


The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #9 posted 11/22/21 1:46pm

TrevorAyer

musically less so but stylistically .. all his dirty lyrics are pretty punk and bold and his outfits and speedos and stockings and androgyny .. all punk .. studs on the jackets etc .. glam ..

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Reply #10 posted 11/23/21 7:42am

Se7en

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I think he was more New Wave than Punk. If you listen to The Cars, Missing Persons, etc. from the early 80s, there's definitely that sound in Prince's music.

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Reply #11 posted 11/23/21 8:25am

herb4

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Se7en said:

I think he was more New Wave than Punk. If you listen to The Cars, Missing Persons, etc. from the early 80s, there's definitely that sound in Prince's music.


This.

Prince had a little bit everything, especially in the early 80's, but the new wave influence was far more pronounced in his style than punk. When he was coming up, new wave sounds like Blondie, Talking Heads, Adam Ant, Gang of Four (along with the bands you mentioned) were supplanting the more raw, undisciplined and fierce sounds of bands like Sex Pistols, Fear, etc. That stuff was still around and newer bands like Bad Brains, Buzzcocks, The Replacements and such were still carrying the tradition but the ability to actually PLAY and write songs (along with the birth of MTV) kind of pushed that more angry "noise" to the side a little bit and commercial interests helped castrate the entire punk scene and make it a cliche - sucking it up and spitting it out.

The Clash brought actual musicianship and showed you could learn to play and still be "punk". The Ramones were always funny to me because all they really did was play traditional rock in the tradition of The Beach Boys, only sped up.

A friend of mine once suggested that rap and hip hop replaced and supplanted punk, which is an interesting thought that I tend to agree with but is probably a subject for another thread.

A little bit of the punk ethos was always there for Prince every now and again. A song like "No More Candy 4 U" has some punk undertones.

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Reply #12 posted 11/24/21 10:03am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

herb4 said:

Se7en said:

I think he was more New Wave than Punk. If you listen to The Cars, Missing Persons, etc. from the early 80s, there's definitely that sound in Prince's music.


The Clash brought actual musicianship and showed you could learn to play and still be "punk". The Ramones were always funny to me because all they really did was play traditional rock in the tradition of The Beach Boys, only sped up.



Listening to ramones' debut album on youtube right now, and can confirm at .75 speed, it sounds not punk but more 60s ish traditional rock. So if they're punk, then it's just sped up rock 'n' roll? Maybe they weren't the first punk band after all. The vocals aren't snarling, aggressive enough.


[Edited 11/24/21 10:21am]

The hypocrisy of the far-left is something else.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - this is where all religions fall down.
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Reply #13 posted 11/24/21 1:41pm

herb4

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fortuneandserendipity said:

herb4 said:


The Clash brought actual musicianship and showed you could learn to play and still be "punk". The Ramones were always funny to me because all they really did was play traditional rock in the tradition of The Beach Boys, only sped up.



Listening to ramones' debut album on youtube right now, and can confirm at .75 speed, it sounds not punk but more 60s ish traditional rock. So if they're punk, then it's just sped up rock 'n' roll? Maybe they weren't the first punk band after all. The vocals aren't snarling, aggressive enough.


[Edited 11/24/21 10:21am]


That's what I meant. Ramones were just playing traditional 60's pop FAST, which I suppose one could argue is kind of within the punk aesthetic. Like Sid Vicous doing "My Way". I enjoy the Ramones to an extent but there's not much about them I'd call original or anything.

Just take a bunch of speed and play a lot of really easy songs REAL FUCKING FAST. It's fine and pretty fun actually.

Weird thing about punk is that once it's discovered and assimilated, it's no longer punk. Then again, there's Green Day but that felt like more of a things coming full circle kind of thing. Bunch of next gens who never heard of Black Flag or the Ramones thought some guys who could play a little were doing anything more than recycling the Clash or Television.

Wheel goes round.

And to tie it back to Prince, "Sister" is punk as hell. "Party Up" is kind of punk/funk fully realized (watch the SNL performance). The Controversy album had some slght punk influences but they're buried and one has to look for them and I think that album was marking prince gravitating away from that influence and more into the new wave funk that led to 1999.

It's all so fun to listen to and watch it unfold. Seeing an artist use every influence under the sun to create something wholly original and timeless.

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Reply #14 posted 11/26/21 3:06am

NouveauDance

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Right from the start he didn't want to get pigeon-holed as a "black artist" because he knew it would limit his potential reach (commercially, artistically) if he was only played on black radio. Isn't this one reason why he didn't want Maurice White to produce 'For You' (despite being a fan, and grateful for the opportunity I would assume.) So after getting his foot in the door, it seems inevitable that he would start to widen his sound.

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