no thanks

cooldayla said:

Buttox said:

cooldayla said:

no thanks

As expected the "Prince is all mine and all knowing and wise. Even if he plunges into obscurity that's fine because that's the way to honour him" crowd is there and ready with the pitchforks.

lol, i said all that by politely saying no?

Last time I checked, great artist don't become obscure. Nothing to worry about there my friend.

I just don't want to hear a Doja Cat duet, no offense to Doja. Never wanted to hear a Jam and Lewis sound on a Prince album, Pandimonium was bad enough. And i'm not opposed to someone doing a talent show based on Prince. I'm pretty sure they won't get Daft Punk to contribute though. Probably wouldn't be interested in watching it either. I still can't bring myself to watching the cbs tribute show they did years ago, and i love St. Vincent.

Buttox said:

I know some on here will cry sacrilege but truth is Prince was not very good at building and nurturing his legacy and responding to changes in music trends. This is why he stopped charting as a top top artist by the time of the Gold Experience. Given that point, should the Estate stop "respecting Prince's wishes"and start burnishing his legacy,? How? 1 Whitney Houston and Elton John oldies have been reworked and given new leases of life. Why not some underappreciated Prince tracks? 2. Jimmy Jam confessed he once told Prince he and Terry wanted to produce him. Why not let Jam and Lewis produce an album of cream of the crop vault material? Or reworked underappreciated Prince album tracks or Bsides? 3.Or go even bolder and produce a musician's version of Idol or the Voice. Instead of just singing covers of music standards, different teams of producers and artists pick and trade 8-10 songs from the Vault, rework them and perform them one song per week live. Rather than getting voted off each week the teams get ranked in a league table via a public vote and there are two winners by: the league table winner and a vote for each entire album of songs at the end. You could do this with established stars like Ronson, Calvin Harris, Daft Punk, The Weekend, Dallas Austin, Jam and Lewis, Dr Dre, Wendy and Lisa etc all competing with one another. Each episode could show the process of working on songs in detail rather than just performance rehearsal. I'd personally Binge watch something like that. Bracing myself for the response from the Prince cultists for whom I have j just blasphemed. [Edited 11/7/21 2:12am] [Edited 11/7/21 2:12am] [Edited 11/7/21 2:12am] [Edited 11/7/21 2:14am] [Edited 11/7/21 2:14am] [Edited 11/7/21 2:15am]

You're talking about his legacy with the general public. Perhaps that's not as strong as it should be. But if you were to talk about his legacy within the music industry, it's incredibly strong. Other musicians idolize him. The public may be forgetting about him, but his peers still respect and adire him. Many were in awe of him.

In other words, his legacy as a pop star may not be to your liking, but his legcay as an artist is solid. All of the suggestions you made might help his pop star image, but they'd undermine his image as an artist.

I don't know - if he never allowed JJ/TL to produce him while he was alive, then it was for a reason. Then again, a "superproducer" team of JJ/TL/Sheila/W&L/etc. of former associates might just work.

Whatever comes out from the Vault, I want it as untouched as possible while still being something worth releasing.

To comment on the Idol/Voice concept -- they did a Prince-themed episode already of American Idol. I don't see it being a huge draw.

The target audience for those shows is not into Prince. And, even if they were, it would only be the 80's hits. Not some obscure Vault material!

Electrostar said:

So I'm not sure if he mismanaged his business.

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He left a complete financial mess after his unexpected death and his estate is struggling to pay the bills. Yeah, what a success.

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He certainly never stopped loving recording and performing his art.

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LOL, this nonsense again. Dude went looong stretches without touring, and even his tours were often fairly short. Meanwhile his post-Warners releases were often hard to find mere months after release; hence Sony being able to earn plenty of money by merely re-releasing existing albums.

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Also, the fact that his WBR albums were never remastered during his lifetime, nor received expanded reissues speaks volumes to his lack of curation. Like I've said before: we should be on our third round of reissues -- instead, we are on our first. His vault should have been monetised ages ago, when people still paid good money for music and when his fanbase hadn't been reduced significantly.

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What was in place when Prince died? Nothing. Prince was still doing his ridiculous one-and-done type releases, with websites coming and going in the blink of an eye, with things being teased or even announced without any follow-up. It's just one act of self-sabotage after another. Why not release the professionally filmed Montreux concerts? Instead, bootleggers did it.

Buttox said:

Jimmy Jam confessed he once told Prince he and Terry wanted to produce him. Why not let Jam and Lewis produce an album of cream of the crop vault material? Or reworked underappreciated Prince album tracks or Bsides?

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LOL. The estate managed one single release this year, plus some loose change. Let's see them properly use the contents of the vault first. I'd like for instance to get remastered and expanded editions of all of the classic era albums in the next couple of years, preferably one release a year.

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3.Or go even bolder and produce a musician's version of Idol or the Voice.

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How the hell have you lot still not figured out that those shows have zilch to do with music?

BartVanHemelen said:

cooldayla said:

Buttox said:

cooldayla said:

lol, i said all that by politely saying no?

Last time I checked, great artist don't become obscure. Nothing to worry about there my friend.

I just don't want to hear a Doja Cat duet, no offense to Doja. Never wanted to hear a Jam and Lewis sound on a Prince album, Pandimonium was bad enough. And i'm not opposed to someone doing a talent show based on Prince. I'm pretty sure they won't get Daft Punk to contribute though. Probably wouldn't be interested in watching it either. I still can't bring myself to watching the cbs tribute show they did years ago, and i love St. Vincent.

Drive by posts that dismiss thread topics out of hand with a single three word phrase are not polite. FIY.

Ideas not good.

EmmaMcG said:

Completely empty the vault and make it all available for streaming, with an option to purchase each song. Then, for physical collectors, put out two vault albums per year. One Super Deluxe Edition with bonus tracks and one album of just unreleased stuff that's not attached to any individual album. Maybe clean up the sound quality for the physical releases as an added incentive but that's it.

Yes. The estate, much like OP, is already trying to cash in / emphasize on his "pop star" status with their 14th re-release of Purple Rain coming up and focus on deluxe editions that sold most in initial release, but this is an uphill battle.

There's so many friggin' pop stars and hits at this stage. Market what makes him unique. The fact that he is the biggest cult artist with a literal world of content all his own. He's his own Disney+, his own Tidal, but like OP they keep trying to fit a round peg into a square and fashion his legacy as a "hitmaker" tantamount to a Madonna, or Michael Jackson, when he was never that, he was much more.

[Edited 11/7/21 21:11pm]

[Edited 11/7/21 21:11pm]

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Sigh....hell I don't mind. :-/

Most Prince fans here only want their selfish I-want-that-now-list being released - me included tbh.

Some/we don't give a shit if the 'D&P SDE' is released while some/we would prefere the 'Parade SDE' for instance.

To put it like this, their is a serious lack of a genuine true community feel hee i believe.

The only thing we all have in comon is the fast daily news.

More views than comments on all posts.

And all the bitching and moaning constantly going on here.

I even believe that Prince fans in general are the least coherent group of fans. Bash me if you think i'm wrong.

Knowing that most here are over 35/45, at least that's my observation.

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fact; we even have more material available to our likes than any other Jimmy Hendrix fan, The Beatles fan, MJ fan, WHitney fan, Tupac fan, Zappa fan, out there.

Both official and non-official material.

Hell even Youtube has thousands of Prince stuff to be discovered if you like.

We're all so spoiled, want more, and it is understandable too.

But actually i don't care that much anymore.

Whatever is released, i'll take it.

I'm even willing to pay for whatever is released.

The way things are going now through The estate, is a bit lame for an old time fan like me.

The Estate has a one sided approach of Prince's legacy - as if they would like to make a sort of clean saint out of him.

Knowing they are on the highest mountain of pure gold material, just sitting there.

And the money is there... although Bart might not agree.

Sure it'll take time to get it all sorted. But after five years... honestly.

They easitly could've separated important from less important releases by now, to speed up the pace.

They could've provided us with more free goodies too - things that only true fans would like to have, where they (The Estate) know can't make much money from.

I don't understand what the hell is going on there.

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Well, if Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis could do an album - which I honestly doubt for a 99,9999 % will ever happen - well, let them do it. Whatever.

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Electrostar said:

I suspect much of the quality bootlegs were leaked by him anyway.

You suspect wrong.
Are there still people who believe this nonsense??? Isn't it common knowledge by now how the 'quality' bbotlegs were leaked??

JorisE73 said:

Electrostar said:

I suspect much of the quality bootlegs were leaked by him anyway.

You suspect wrong.
Are there still people who believe this nonsense??? Isn't it common knowledge by now how the 'quality' bbotlegs were leaked??

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Exactly.

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On a side note;

Prince's part could be in that, that he did not always treated people correct. Like (ex-)bandmembers, family, engineers, co-workers, sacked people, employees, songs given ot other artists, whatever reason - revenge or which word can be used here.

Still no legal or official reason to bootleg stuff - I agree and am aware of that.

It's just that these things happened 'A LOT'.

Other known stories of him not paying correctly, etc.

So indirectly there might be some Prince involvement... we'll never know for sure.

And of course it remains illegal, unjustified and immoral to do so.

But who am I to judge.

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lurker316 said:

Electrostar said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

Buttox said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

Yes. The estate, much like OP, is already trying to cash in / emphasize on his "pop star" status with their 14th re-release of Purple Rain coming up and focus on deluxe editions that sold most in initial release, but this is an uphill battle.

There's so many friggin' pop stars and hits at this stage. Market what makes him unique. The fact that he is the biggest cult artist with a literal world of content all his own. He's his own Disney+, his own Tidal, but like OP they keep trying to fit a round peg into a square and fashion his legacy as a "hitmaker" tantamount to a Madonna, or Michael Jackson, when he was never that, he was much more.

[Edited 11/7/21 21:11pm]

[Edited 11/7/21 21:11pm]

I'm trying to keep Prince relevant for generations to come like The Beatles or The Rolling Stones or Jimi Hendrix. So sue me. I don't know what the Estate is trying to to but too many of you just don't get it. What matters is keeping the music alive and people listening to it, especially new generations. Prince thought what mattered was writing as many songs as possible and keeping control of everything. He was dead wrong. [Edited 11/8/21 5:28am]

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It's a nobel cause. But i'm affraid it is wasted.

Sure it matters to keep the music alive - I fully agree.

But new generations will always seek their own way through music - you can't (barely) direct them (with the fast internet and image/era we're living in).

And again, true, Prince was dead wrong in thinking that keeping up the urge of constant new writings would made him relevant - which wasn't the case since 1994-1995.

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To WhisperingDandelions :

I sort of agree with hos you think (and feel), but if the 14th re-issue of Purple Rain is what it takes to keep the $ running, than sadly i'm not against it. Why Should I.

Sure i want more unreleased stuff, etc, and a honest and better image of the real Prince.

So I do agree we/The estate should market what makes him unique - the workahollic reclusive world-strange popstar he made of himself, with a unique blend of of never seen artistry.

I'm not sure if he is the biggest cult artist out there, and I do think he was sort of a 'hitmaker' in some ways - certainly not in every way, but important enough to label it (if needed).

And yes he was much more. But The Estate is trying to make a very positive all round pop/rock artist out of him, who was able to predict the future (like they want us to believe with the promo of W2A, well...my ass). And they're trying to make a saint out of him if we let them.

Which I believe is a wrong image so far. They don't show the real Prince (yet).

Possibly cause a polished positive image and keeping the edgy stories hidden are far more money generating to most.

Prince was a mere human, with loads of mistakes and a tremendous blend of utter quality on many (musical) levels, etc.

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Buttox said:

Electrostar said:

I'm guessing once you've attained the success Prince had in the first half of his career, there is little motivation to tenaciously chase it in the second half. So I'm not sure if he mismanaged his business. He certainly never stopped loving recording and performing his art. Dressing up his work to achieve more attention? While I love high quality remastered albums (hurry up with Lovesexy!), I don't want Prince flogged to death. Why? That's so cheap and unPrincelike. Just coz that's what everyone else is doing, Nah. If Prince's music will survive, it will on merit. And it will.

Madonna managed more staying power by embracing new trends and working with top notch collaborators. Take a look at listens in Spotify for Prince. They are nowhere where they should be for the quality of work he produced. And no I don't think that is OK or that his music will magically endure by itself. Purple Rain might but the rest of his work will go to obscurity unless it is nurtured.

I hear you and your genuine passion, but I'm not convinced marketing in new ways is a required solution to stop Prince's legacy from disappearing. Quality is quality no matter how you dress it up. Too much "rubbish" in todays world achieves enourmous short term sales due to insane marketing, then drops off the radar. Thats about making a few people lots of money, not ensuring a legacy is preserved.

My son loves 70s 80s & 90s rock and metal. He's 13 and says the music of today, thats pushed in his face from all avenues of media, is "boring". His mates think so too. Quality lives on.

Buttox said:

Given that point, should the Estate stop "respecting Prince's wishes"and start burnishing his legacy,?

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No.

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1 Whitney Houston and Elton John oldies have been reworked and given new leases of life. Why not some

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Even if they were at Prince's level of genius I would be in doub.

So to err on the safe side I'd say HELL NO!

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Jimmy Jam confessed he once told Prince he and Terry wanted to produce him. Why not let Jam and Lewis produce an album of cream of the crop vault material?

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That would be somethign different.

OTOH it would go criss-cross through the supposed plans of the Estate w.r.t. releasing 'stuff'.

Or reworked underappreciated Prince album tracks or Bsides?

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Nah...

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3.Or go even bolder

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No. Please.

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I have j just blasphemed.

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Yes.

How will you pay for your sins?

BartVanHemelen said:

Buttox said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

How the hell have you lot still not figured out that those shows have zilch to do with music?

How the hell have you managed to misconstrue my point? The idea is not to have talented nobodies show off their vocal skills. The point is to have talented producers and musicians work up new music that incorporates Prince's compositions in their Vault form. I only referenced those shows because of the similarity in format.Think the process for Real Love and Free as a Bird for the Beatles, but instead of the Beatles working off of a single John Lennon demo tape, it's top notch musicians working in parallel picking from the oceans of music in Prince's Vault. And why on earth make the Estate's performance or activities a prerequisite for implementing initiatives that enhance public exposure to Prince's music? [Edited 11/8/21 8:32am] [Edited 11/8/21 8:35am]

Now I get what you're saying, but now I actually like the idea less! If it's a competition, that is. Then a Prince song becomes a Timbaland/Pharell/Questlove/Ronson/etc. song as soon as they touch it. If it's a hit, then it's their hit.

I would not mind seeing a documentary though (for lack of a better term) of -insert producer here- meeting at Iron Mountain to review tapes, then heading back to Paisley Park to start work on that new project. Interviews and insights from past bandmembers (maybe even "Hey, I worked on that") to help flesh out the finished product. Have listening sessions with fans at Paisley Park for feedback (kind of like he did for TRC). Document the highs and the lows (like maybe the tape had to be baked first) or even some insight as to when it was recorded (i.e. this was recorded - this day -).

Elevate the experience.

Leave all the recordings as they are and release them as they are. No need for external producers who have nothing to do with the recordings (or even Prince's carreer) ruin the material.
That would be like letting a 'Hip' rapper ruin a remix of D.M.S.R.

[Edited 11/9/21 0:39am]

JorisE73 said:

Leave all the recordings as they are and release them as they are. No need for external producers who have nothing to do with the recordings (or even Prince's carreer) ruin the material.
That would be like letting a 'Hip' rapper ruin a remix of D.M.S.R.

[Edited 11/9/21 0:39am]

Exactly...As P. once said : "Don't you ever touch...This is my records !"