Do others see that this recording is missing some bass? The sound is super....love to hear so much rhythm guitar on Girls and Boys...have dreamt of that since I got the Gothenburg show soundboard when I was a teen...but the bass is missing.

I know of the initial concerns about speed of the recording...but i'm more now questioning the sound.

The sound is how it is due to the fact that it's a stereo soundboard reording that was mixed to accomodate the venue, not a home system. As a result, many soundboard recordings lack certain instruments that would otherwise be prominent - the rhythm section is usually comprimised.

Is it from the 80s? If so, I always thought Prince´s sound in the 80s didnt have a fat bass. Susan Rodgers said Prince liked to boost the midtones in an unique way. IMO, Prince only had a strong bass sound after Sonny T (my fave, by the way)

Yeah to echo the first reply in this thread, this audio being a already-mixed down soundboard means that there is only so much you can do in regards to bringing instruments up in the actual mix. The bass was probably lacking in the mixdown and so in the mastering stage it was decided that was the best they could do without potentially bringing in other issues by raising the low end of the frequency spectrum

JoeyCococo said:

Do others see that this recording is missing some bass? The sound is super....love to hear so much rhythm guitar on Girls and Boys...have dreamt of that since I got the Gothenburg show soundboard when I was a teen...but the bass is missing.

I know of the initial concerns about speed of the recording...but i'm more now questioning the sound.

Soundboard of the Gothenburg 87 show?

That doesn´t exist as far as I know, sure you mean Gothenburg?

ForceofNature said:

Yeah to echo the first reply in this thread, this audio being a already-mixed down soundboard means that there is only so much you can do in regards to bringing instruments up in the actual mix. The bass was probably lacking in the mixdown and so in the mastering stage it was decided that was the best they could do without potentially bringing in other issues by raising the low end of the frequency spectrum

This also most likely explains the low audience level. Some complained about it, and it certainly is a little disturbing, but there was nothing the Estate could do.

its a crappy, flaccid, thin recording. they made no attempt to make it better obv.

so i guess its an accurate reproduction of what it is, its just that there have to be better tour

recordings out there. i should say, there ARE better shows from 87 out there.

kinda crappy to have this one on the box set though, not the best representation of that tour.

the lack of audience also just makes it doubly weird that they used this for the box set.

[Edited 10/26/21 3:41am]

mantaray31 said:

JoeyCococo said:

Do others see that this recording is missing some bass? The sound is super....love to hear so much rhythm guitar on Girls and Boys...have dreamt of that since I got the Gothenburg show soundboard when I was a teen...but the bass is missing.

I know of the initial concerns about speed of the recording...but i'm more now questioning the sound.

Soundboard of the Gothenburg 87 show?

That doesn´t exist as far as I know, sure you mean Gothenburg?

perhaps Vienna???

-

Am I wrong by saying they should've mixed some crowd noise into it ?

I mean, they mixed the whole show anyways...

(I'm not an expert though.)

-

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

its a crappy, flaccid, thin recording. they made no attempt to make it better obv.

so i guess its an accurate reproduction of what it is, its just that there have to be better tour

recordings out there. i should say, there ARE better shows from 87 out there.

kinda crappy to have this one on the box set though, not the best representation of that tour.

the lack of audience also just makes it doubly weird that they used this for the box set.

[Edited 10/26/21 3:41am]

God knows I haven't been defending the Estate when they messed up, but my understanding is that no regular show from that tour, save those for the film that couldn't be used, exists on multitracks. Was it the best show to release? IDK, but most likely there would have been similar issues with all others?

Vannormal said:

-

Am I wrong by saying they should've mixed some crowd noise into it ?

I mean, they mixed the whole show anyways...

(I'm not an expert though.)

-

If my understanding is correct, they could only mix the stereo channels, which isn't proper mixing by any standard.

They could have added crowd noise indeed, but God knows how it would have sounded because it would have had to be superimposed over the already existing one. Purist as I may be, I wouldn't go as far as to make a fuss over frankensteined crowd noises, but I honestly don't know if it could easily have sounded well.

At some point, what they find is what they find. If there was indeed a pitch problem, it should have been corrected, but adding crowd noises seems to be a little over the top.

Now IDK, because since they tell us so little about what they do and how they do it...

databank said:

my understanding is that no regular show from that tour, save those for the film that couldn't be used, exists on multitracks.

.

I wonder about the rights to those shows that were recorded for the film. Memory serves, two shows in Rotterdam were filmed and one in Antwerp. That means three shows. Would they all be tied up with the rights to the SOTT movie, which the Estate and WB/Sony do not have? I would think that the concert recordings would not fall under the same contract. (but what do I know)

.

Having said that, I prefer soundboard shows to audience recordings and to fully mixed shows with the audience miked and mixed in, so I'm quite happy with the Utrecht soundboard. (not just because I was at the show)

if the hendrix esstate can release amateur audience recordings, im sure the estate could have found the source of the wonderboy bootleg for instance.

mediumdry said:

databank said:

my understanding is that no regular show from that tour, save those for the film that couldn't be used, exists on multitracks.

.

I wonder about the rights to those shows that were recorded for the film. Memory serves, two shows in Rotterdam were filmed and one in Antwerp. That means three shows. Would they all be tied up with the rights to the SOTT movie, which the Estate and WB/Sony do not have? I would think that the concert recordings would not fall under the same contract. (but what do I know)

.

Howe said they were, IIRC.

.

Having said that, I prefer soundboard shows to audience recordings and to fully mixed shows with the audience miked and mixed in, so I'm quite happy with the Utrecht soundboard. (not just because I was at the show)

.

Not sure, what you mean, but isn't the audience in that show miked and mixed in ans isn't that precisely the problem?

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

if the hendrix esstate can release amateur audience recordings, im sure the estate could have found the source of the wonderboy bootleg for instance.

My understanding is that most, if not all of the SBD shows we have on boots are stereo mixes that cannot be improved on much, but IDK for sure. I've only learned rather recently that not all shows were multitracks, I believe it was Scotty who said that in a podcast, and that's when I learned it.

.

Why was the audience so low in Utrecht by comparison to other shows we have? No idea.

Why was this show chosen over any other? I have no idea either.

.

Certainly, other SOTT shows will see the light of day eventually anyway. We should just all start sending our money to those labs trying to stop or reverse the aging process

.

On a sidenote, I wonder how many of us really listen to (or watch) these new shows much? I bought my first 1999 and SOTT Tour bootlegs (as well as the SOTT film) about 30 years ago. I know these setlists by heart, so there isn't much novelty effect left for these new releases. It's nice to have them, of course, but it's not exactly what I want to listen to every day anymore...

databank said:

My understanding is that most, if not all of the SBD shows we have on boots are stereo mixes that cannot be improved on much, but IDK for sure. I've only learned rather recently that not all shows were multitracks, I believe it was Scotty who said that in a podcast, and that's when I learned it.

.

Why was the audience so low in Utrecht by comparison to other shows we have? No idea.

Why was this show chosen over any other? I have no idea either.

.

On a sidenote, I wonder how many of us really listen to (or watch) these new shows much? I bought my first 1999 and SOTT Tour bootlegs (as well as the SOTT film) about 30 years ago. I know these setlists by heart, so there isn't much novelty effect left for these new releases. It's nice to have them, of course, but it's not exactly what I want to listen to every day anymore...

.

I think hardly any live shows have been recorded on multitrack. The mobile trucks were only rolled in for "special occassions". Generally, soundboard recordings are simply 2 track DAT straight from the board. (much like the One Night Alone live box set)

.

The recordings were mostly for Prince to listen back and determine what needs to be improved, much like the video recordings that were made from most shows. (going back to the days of Morris Day during the Dirty Mind days) 1 camera, overview of the stage. This is also why the audience is low in Utrecht, as for soundboard, they tend not to be mixed in (or even miked, for that matter). It was never recorded for release later on. This might also mean that other shows might have parts missing, during tape swaps, etc. There might be less complete shows to choose from than we think. (although I hope I'm wrong about that)

.

Lastly, because of most shows being mixed to stereo on the board as it happened, different shows sound quite different. This means that I tend to check new shows out to figure if I prefer the sound to what I already have and if there is anything "special" about the show. For me, I tend to only need one show per tour really. Sure, there are differences between shows, but by and large, the shows stayed similar. (but I prefer studio work, so it's an "extra" to me, others feel different)

.

I would even be ok with a frankensteined live set per tour, that shows the best of what Prince did live at the time. But I don't think it's possible to get a cohesive sounding mix that way. And the Estate seems to not want to put in that much work either.

mediumdry said:

databank said:

My understanding is that most, if not all of the SBD shows we have on boots are stereo mixes that cannot be improved on much, but IDK for sure. I've only learned rather recently that not all shows were multitracks, I believe it was Scotty who said that in a podcast, and that's when I learned it.

.

Why was the audience so low in Utrecht by comparison to other shows we have? No idea.

Why was this show chosen over any other? I have no idea either.

.

On a sidenote, I wonder how many of us really listen to (or watch) these new shows much? I bought my first 1999 and SOTT Tour bootlegs (as well as the SOTT film) about 30 years ago. I know these setlists by heart, so there isn't much novelty effect left for these new releases. It's nice to have them, of course, but it's not exactly what I want to listen to every day anymore...

.

I think hardly any live shows have been recorded on multitrack. The mobile trucks were only rolled in for "special occassions". Generally, soundboard recordings are simply 2 track DAT straight from the board. (much like the One Night Alone live box set)

.

The recordings were mostly for Prince to listen back and determine what needs to be improved, much like the video recordings that were made from most shows. (going back to the days of Morris Day during the Dirty Mind days) 1 camera, overview of the stage. This is also why the audience is low in Utrecht, as for soundboard, they tend not to be mixed in (or even miked, for that matter). It was never recorded for release later on. This might also mean that other shows might have parts missing, during tape swaps, etc. There might be less complete shows to choose from than we think. (although I hope I'm wrong about that)

.

Lastly, because of most shows being mixed to stereo on the board as it happened, different shows sound quite different. This means that I tend to check new shows out to figure if I prefer the sound to what I already have and if there is anything "special" about the show. For me, I tend to only need one show per tour really. Sure, there are differences between shows, but by and large, the shows stayed similar. (but I prefer studio work, so it's an "extra" to me, others feel different)

.

I would even be ok with a frankensteined live set per tour, that shows the best of what Prince did live at the time. But I don't think it's possible to get a cohesive sounding mix that way. And the Estate seems to not want to put in that much work either.

.

Yes, that's what I finally figured, after decades of naively thinking everything was multitrack.

.

I can't imagine the concerts on the ONA boxset weren't multitracks, though: Prince was planning a live album from the beginning of that tour, wasn't he?

.

What I never understood, however, is the brutal sound drop in the middle of the show on the Aladdin DVD (on Push & Pull). That is really awkward. Hard to believe it's not on purpose, but even harder to understand why it would be on purpose

.

[Edited 10/26/21 12:54pm]

Prince himself put out a few per4mances of the Parade tour and same thing...the sound is kind of thin and the audience is partially muted. That is just how he did it. It was for personal use not intended for us. I am glad they left it the way it was.

JoeyCococo said:

Do others see that this recording is missing some bass? The sound is super....love to hear so much rhythm guitar on Girls and Boys...have dreamt of that since I got the Gothenburg show soundboard when I was a teen...but the bass is missing.

I know of the initial concerns about speed of the recording...but i'm more now questioning the sound.

For me this is a 'flat' recording and doesn't capture the excitement of those live concerts at all. I was there for all the Utrecht concerts, and one of the most impressive things was the audience stomping their feet, making the whole stadium vibrate and ring... so cool. The mix is what it is, as recorded, not much they could have done about it. But... I would have much preferred the original Ahoy recordings which they used for the movie. I would hope the master tapes for those concerts exist!

I do agree, the lack of crowd noise makes it a less exciting listen. I mean, you can tell Prince is fired up....but it feels like he's getting NO response despite someone here saying they were there and the pounding by the crowd was awesome.

databank said:

What I never understood, however, is the brutal sound drop in the middle of the show on the Aladdin DVD (on Push & Pull). That is really awkward. Hard to believe it's not on purpose, but even harder to understand why it would be on purpose

I always thought that it was on purpose. Because during the ONA tour, all the shows were filmed from the audience and i could listen to and watch them only a few days after the performance.

During that period, it was even hard to follow the rythm of the bootleg releases.

I think Prince wanted to punish us because of that. I could really well imagined him saying "If they manage to watch such bad recordings, I'll give them one myself". And, this is exactly what he did with Aladdin DVD. As some of the movie concerts i have from this tour, the show doesn't start at the beginning with The Rainbow Children song, as the DVD... the picture is bad and the sound too.

they should release the multi track mix of the film audio, without the dramatic bits.

that is so well mixed and sounds amazing.

plus he knew which songs to cut - so theres no so-so old 1999 and PR songs, or girls n boys which never sounded that good.

just brilliant back to front.