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Thread started 10/19/21 1:20am

BartVanHemelen

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PRINCE Engineer David "Z" Rivkin & Peggy "Mac" discuss working with the artist for decades.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #1 posted 10/19/21 1:47am

Vannormal

-

Thank you Bart.

I'm following these talks for a while now.

Ther's a very bizarre one with Apollonia. wink

Always very interesting.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #2 posted 10/19/21 2:17am

Vannormal

-

David the moderator says (28+ minutes in the interview) this :

-

''(...) what an amazing piano player he was. We here have tapes of him playing for hours (...)''

-

Where are these tapes?

Who owns them ? W.B.?

I'm no expert in this.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #3 posted 10/19/21 6:53am

paisleypark4

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Vannormal said:

-

David the moderator says (28+ minutes in the interview) this :

-

''(...) what an amazing piano player he was. We here have tapes of him playing for hours (...)''

-

Where are these tapes?

Who owns them ? W.B.?

I'm no expert in this.

-

Most likely in the tapes and tapes in the Vaults. Now at Iron Mountain.

Straight Jacket Funk Affair
Album plays and love for vinyl records.
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Reply #4 posted 10/19/21 11:15am

DaddySmooth

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He also said he just remixed the 1st Avenue Purple Rain show for Netflix!
U might not like the taste, but I'm still going to stick your face in this Funk
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Reply #5 posted 10/19/21 11:29am

Poplife88

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That was the first time I have seen either person interviewed. Fun and fascinating listen. Thanks for posting!

We're gonna need a bigger boat
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Reply #6 posted 10/19/21 2:12pm

BartVanHemelen

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© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #7 posted 10/19/21 3:40pm

laytonian

DaddySmooth said:

He also said he just remixed the 1st Avenue Purple Rain show for Netflix!


So that slow-moving Netflix project is still underway?
It's been so hush-hush, people know just little parts of it.
Quite Prince-like.
I'm sure the video took a *lot* of work to clean up.

Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
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Reply #8 posted 10/20/21 1:23am

Vannormal

paisleypark4 said:

Vannormal said:

-

David the moderator says (28+ minutes in the interview) this :

-

''(...) what an amazing piano player he was. We here have tapes of him playing for hours (...)''

-

Where are these tapes?

Who owns them ? W.B.?

I'm no expert in this.

-

Most likely in the tapes and tapes in the Vaults. Now at Iron Mountain.

-

I'm not really convinced they are in Iron Mountain.

How could it be that David the moderator was able to see 'm ?

Not that he explicitly said he did, but he mentioned it in a way as if he knows more.

Careful mentioning it inbetween conversation...

As I come to think of it, Prince probably filmed it himself...

But how can anyone like this David know about this?

...he is much younger than the tapes... i believe...

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #9 posted 10/20/21 3:23am

Vannormal

-

Listening again...

Oh Waw !

I just heard the moderator David talk about that particular part (where prince played piano for two hours in sunset sound), and it apparently is out there on youtube!

The story starts exactly at

1:05:50

He says it has leaked on youtube : ''just search for Sunset Sound Prince Piano'' he said.

-

I looked for it but haven't found the 2 hour tape, only the 16min+ version.

He also tells that The Estate and lawyers were asking and pushing them to hand over the tapes. smile

Great great story!

All so important too.

-

[Edited 10/20/21 6:47am]

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #10 posted 10/20/21 6:53am

Vannormal

-

Peggy McCreary on the early signs of his pain ;

"...You could tell how much in pain he was by the way he was mean to others..."

-

And it says a lot about Prince that he never spoke to Peggy again after 1986.

She never saw him again after that. She brought her 8 months old baby to Sunset Sound, he was working there, and the barely talked..."

Honestly what an ashole as a human being Prince often was, when you hear those two recall memories.

Amazing.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #11 posted 10/20/21 8:09am

paisleypark4

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Vannormal said:

paisleypark4 said:

Most likely in the tapes and tapes in the Vaults. Now at Iron Mountain.

-

I'm not really convinced they are in Iron Mountain.

How could it be that David the moderator was able to see 'm ?

Not that he explicitly said he did, but he mentioned it in a way as if he knows more.

Careful mentioning it inbetween conversation...

As I come to think of it, Prince probably filmed it himself...

But how can anyone like this David know about this?

...he is much younger than the tapes... i believe...

-

My boss seen them too when he passed and we had control over the Park for a while, doesnt mean no one has ever seen them. As well do not forget other artists have master recordings of Prince in their posessions too like Ian Boxill who tried to release Deliverance...Kate Bush, Madonna, Dale Bozzio, Paula Abdul...he didnt completely own every single master tape he ever had his voice on only.

More on Iron Mountain

Prince's Master Tapes Mov... Billboard

Straight Jacket Funk Affair
Album plays and love for vinyl records.
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Reply #12 posted 10/20/21 4:52pm

GustavoRibas

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Cool! Sunset Sound guys are always talking about Prince (and Van Halen). They did a Peggy episode in their podcast before. And their Instagram always has some Prince too.

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Reply #13 posted 10/22/21 7:41am

tab32792

Vannormal said:

-


Peggy McCreary on the early signs of his pain ;


"...You could tell how much in pain he was by the way he was mean to others..."


-


And it says a lot about Prince that he never spoke to Peggy again after 1986.


She never saw him again after that. She brought her 8 months old baby to Sunset Sound, he was working there, and the barely talked..."


Honestly what an ashole as a human being Prince often was, when you hear those two recall memories.


Amazing.


-




Lmao wtf. He didn’t owe her or anybody else any of that. They weren’t friends. They weren’t acquaintances. She was an employee at the studio he worked in. Y’all gotta chill with this shit. Y’all think he had to be super nice and friends with EVERYBODY. That’s not real life. Put the phone down and go outside.
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Reply #14 posted 10/22/21 6:07pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

Vannormal said:

-

Peggy McCreary on the early signs of his pain ;

"...You could tell how much in pain he was by the way he was mean to others..."

-

And it says a lot about Prince that he never spoke to Peggy again after 1986.

She never saw him again after that. She brought her 8 months old baby to Sunset Sound, he was working there, and the barely talked..."

Honestly what an ashole as a human being Prince often was, when you hear those two recall memories.

Amazing.

-


I believe this could be overstating things, a bit.Let's look at it in a different filter.

As noted before, and in the interview, Peggy was never on Prince's payroll. She was always an employee of Sunset Sound; an in-house engineer. "Never spoke to her again," can be cut many ways. Did he hate her or something? Of course not. Did he record at Sunset Sound after having his own studio built in Chanhassen? No, of course not. He recorded at his new home, Paisley Park. And since Mac was a Sunset employee, they'd not have crossed paths. So to say they never talked again, well DUH.

They did talk at Sunset Sound, but "barely" meaning what? A quick hello in the hallway or something? We know Prince was focused on music, and anything else was in the way. So after some hellos or whatever, I'm sure he just trotted back to his studio and kept working. That's not a bitch move, it's just him working.

Peggy's never said a shitty word about him. Sure, she's said he was tough on her a few times, or whatever. But he was that way with everyone. He pushed folks, and by her own admission he was often frustrated with technology when it couldn't keep up with him.

Sure, Prince had his asshole moments. But were these moments some of those? Absolultely not.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #15 posted 10/24/21 5:04am

FrankieCoco1

I liked this interview, as I’d not heard David Z speak before and it was nice hear a little about how he started to get involved in the Minneapolis music scene and especially with Prince. That early period 1976-1980 would be fascinating to hear more about from David and Bobby Z, Owen Husney, Andre and Morris. Perhaps a studio sessions book for Duane Tudahl to consider, once he’s done book 3 (likely 1987-88), book 4 (I hope for 1981-82), and any others he is considering.
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Reply #16 posted 10/26/21 2:40am

Vannormal

tab32792 said:

Vannormal said:

-

Peggy McCreary on the early signs of his pain ;

"...You could tell how much in pain he was by the way he was mean to others..."

-

And it says a lot about Prince that he never spoke to Peggy again after 1986.

She never saw him again after that. She brought her 8 months old baby to Sunset Sound, he was working there, and the barely talked..."

Honestly what an ashole as a human being Prince often was, when you hear those two recall memories.

Amazing.

-

Lmao wtf. He didn’t owe her or anybody else any of that. They weren’t friends. They weren’t acquaintances. She was an employee at the studio he worked in. Y’all gotta chill with this shit. Y’all think he had to be super nice and friends with EVERYBODY. That’s not real life. Put the phone down and go outside.

-

I know al lthat.

So. One just can be mean to whoever for whatever reason.

That's when you get whetn you don't trust people.

Not me. I don't see the need or use for that.

And yes he could've been more friendlier to start with - at least imho.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #17 posted 10/26/21 2:42am

Vannormal

TrivialPursuit said:

Vannormal said:

-

Peggy McCreary on the early signs of his pain ;

"...You could tell how much in pain he was by the way he was mean to others..."

-

And it says a lot about Prince that he never spoke to Peggy again after 1986.

She never saw him again after that. She brought her 8 months old baby to Sunset Sound, he was working there, and the barely talked..."

Honestly what an ashole as a human being Prince often was, when you hear those two recall memories.

Amazing.

-


I believe this could be overstating things, a bit.Let's look at it in a different filter.

As noted before, and in the interview, Peggy was never on Prince's payroll. She was always an employee of Sunset Sound; an in-house engineer. "Never spoke to her again," can be cut many ways. Did he hate her or something? Of course not. Did he record at Sunset Sound after having his own studio built in Chanhassen? No, of course not. He recorded at his new home, Paisley Park. And since Mac was a Sunset employee, they'd not have crossed paths. So to say they never talked again, well DUH.

They did talk at Sunset Sound, but "barely" meaning what? A quick hello in the hallway or something? We know Prince was focused on music, and anything else was in the way. So after some hellos or whatever, I'm sure he just trotted back to his studio and kept working. That's not a bitch move, it's just him working.

Peggy's never said a shitty word about him. Sure, she's said he was tough on her a few times, or whatever. But he was that way with everyone. He pushed folks, and by her own admission he was often frustrated with technology when it couldn't keep up with him.

Sure, Prince had his asshole moments. But were these moments some of those? Absolultely not.

-

THAT, we'll never know. wink

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #18 posted 10/26/21 10:05am

lurker316

avatar

Vannormal said:

-

Listening again...

Oh Waw !

I just heard the moderator David talk about that particular part (where prince played piano for two hours in sunset sound), and it apparently is out there on youtube!

The story starts exactly at

1:05:50

He says it has leaked on youtube : ''just search for Sunset Sound Prince Piano'' he said.

-

I looked for it but haven't found the 2 hour tape, only the 16min+ version.

He also tells that The Estate and lawyers were asking and pushing them to hand over the tapes. smile

Great great story!

All so important too.

-

[Edited 10/20/21 6:47am]


I can only find the 16 minute version on the You Tube as well. Maybe he mispoke when he said 2 hours? Or maybe there are multiple tapes that total 2 hours?


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Reply #19 posted 10/26/21 11:37am

Vannormal

lurker316 said:

Vannormal said:

-

Listening again...

Oh Waw !

I just heard the moderator David talk about that particular part (where prince played piano for two hours in sunset sound), and it apparently is out there on youtube!

The story starts exactly at

1:05:50

He says it has leaked on youtube : ''just search for Sunset Sound Prince Piano'' he said.

-

I looked for it but haven't found the 2 hour tape, only the 16min+ version.

He also tells that The Estate and lawyers were asking and pushing them to hand over the tapes. smile

Great great story!

All so important too.

-

[Edited 10/20/21 6:47am]


I can only find the 16 minute version on the You Tube as well. Maybe he mispoke when he said 2 hours? Or maybe there are multiple tapes that total 2 hours?


-

I think at one point they ''were'' there.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #20 posted 10/26/21 5:36pm

lurker316

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There was one thing I didn't understand...

They explained that Susan Rogers was an employee of Prince, but Peggy and David were not. Peggy was an employee of Sunset Sound, and therefore only ever worked with Prince when he was in that studio. That's why she never went to MPLS. That makes sense.

If David also wasn't an employee of Prince, why did he folllow Prince around everywhere? David described working at the wharehouse in MPLS, running the boards on the truck that recorded the benefit concert that become the core of the Purple Rain album, following Prince out to LA and working with him in Sunset Sound, and even working a bit in Paisley Park. Who was David's employer throughout all of that?


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Reply #21 posted 10/26/21 7:20pm

TrivialPursuit

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lurker316 said:


There was one thing I didn't understand...

They explained that Susan Rogers was an employee of Prince, but Peggy and David were not. Peggy was an employee of Sunset Sound, and therefore only ever worked with Prince when he was in that studio. That's why she never went to MPLS. That makes sense.

If David also wasn't an employee of Prince, why did he folllow Prince around everywhere? David described working at the wharehouse in MPLS, running the boards on the truck that recorded the benefit concert that become the core of the Purple Rain album, following Prince out to LA and working with him in Sunset Sound, and even working a bit in Paisley Park. Who was David's employer throughout all of that?


Maybe he was just contracted as a freelancer, taking jobs from Prince as they came, opposed to being on call all the time like Rogers was.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #22 posted 10/26/21 9:49pm

rlittler81

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David Z said the last thing he did with Prince was The Most Beautiful Girl In The World… anyone know anything about this?
3121... Don't U Wanna Come?
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Reply #23 posted 10/27/21 1:06am

TrivialPursuit

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rlittler81 said:

David Z said the last thing he did with Prince was The Most Beautiful Girl In The World… anyone know anything about this?


What's to know? He's listed as a co-producer, and played additional keyboards. It's listed in the credits.

On The Beautiful Experience, he's also listed as co-producer on the Mustang Mix, Mustand Instrumental, and the regular original track.


"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #24 posted 10/27/21 1:16am

rlittler81

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TrivialPursuit said:

rlittler81 said:

David Z said the last thing he did with Prince was The Most Beautiful Girl In The World… anyone know anything about this?


What's to know? He's listed as a co-producer, and played additional keyboards. It's listed in the credits.

On The Beautiful Experience, he's also listed as co-producer on the Mustang Mix, Mustand Instrumental, and the regular original track.


R-471368-1182869138.jpeg.jpg

That's Ricky P., St. Paul's brother, not David Z. That's why I asked as I don't recall seeing David Z. listed on any of TMBGITW releases.

[Edited 10/27/21 1:17am]

3121... Don't U Wanna Come?
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Reply #25 posted 10/27/21 1:02pm

paisleypark4

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FrankieCoco1 said:

I liked this interview, as I’d not heard David Z speak before and it was nice hear a little about how he started to get involved in the Minneapolis music scene and especially with Prince. That early period 1976-1980 would be fascinating to hear more about from David and Bobby Z, Owen Husney, Andre and Morris. Perhaps a studio sessions book for Duane Tudahl to consider, once he’s done book 3 (likely 1987-88), book 4 (I hope for 1981-82), and any others he is considering.

Word! '87-88 I am SO interested in. He started making some CRAZY sounds and the whole era was wild.

Straight Jacket Funk Affair
Album plays and love for vinyl records.
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Reply #26 posted 10/27/21 1:12pm

TrivialPursuit

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rlittler81 said:

That's Ricky P., St. Paul's brother, not David Z. That's why I asked as I don't recall seeing David Z. listed on any of TMBGITW releases.


GODDAMN IT. You know... I was not paying attention. I was actually chatting WITH AN ORGer about David and Ricky, and voila - bumbled post. Eh well.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #27 posted 10/28/21 1:10am

Vannormal

rlittler81 said:

TrivialPursuit said:


What's to know? He's listed as a co-producer, and played additional keyboards. It's listed in the credits.

On The Beautiful Experience, he's also listed as co-producer on the Mustang Mix, Mustand Instrumental, and the regular original track.


R-471368-1182869138.jpeg.jpg

That's Ricky P., St. Paul's brother, not David Z. That's why I asked as I don't recall seeing David Z. listed on any of TMBGITW releases.

[Edited 10/27/21 1:17am]

-

We all know by now that Prince did not always give (the right) credit(s) to those who worked with him on whatever.

So we just don't know exactly !

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #28 posted 10/28/21 4:46pm

lurker316

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Vannormal said:

rlittler81 said:

That's Ricky P., St. Paul's brother, not David Z. That's why I asked as I don't recall seeing David Z. listed on any of TMBGITW releases.

[Edited 10/27/21 1:17am]

-

We all know by now that Prince did not always give (the right) credit(s) to those who worked with him on whatever.

So we just don't know exactly !

-


David Z makes that point in this interview. Sometimes Prince gave credit to people who weren't involved at all; other times Prince withheld credit from people who deserved it. It didn't make much sense.


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Reply #29 posted 10/28/21 4:49pm

TrivialPursuit

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lurker316 said:

David Z makes that point in this interview. Sometimes Prince gave credit to people who weren't involved at all; other times Prince withheld credit from people who deserved it. It didn't make much sense.


It didn't. But haven't we sorta figured out the he gave credit to some people for the sake of a little money? I mean, if Vanity 6 album's sold anything, then whoever got a songwriting credit would get a little extra royalty paycheck. He did that with his dad, too. If that's the case, maybe David just never knew that?

As far as witholding credit: total shitty thing.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > PRINCE Engineer David "Z" Rivkin & Peggy "Mac" discuss working with the artist for decades.