We've had a million threads over the years on ranking Prince's albums. The topic is old, boring and pointless. I suspect that, for most of us, our rankings change overtime as our tastes evolve or we get bored of certain albums. And ranking requires a lot of hair splitting and apples-to-oranges comparisons.

It's also pointless in the sense that it doesn't matter. When each of us wants to listen to an album, the only question is: "Do I like it or not?" It's kind of binary. Does it make any difference if you like one album slightly better than another, or hate on album slightly worse than another?

With that in mind, I thought it might be interesting to put his studio albums into tiers, rather than a strict progression of #1 through #39. So here is my attempt at his 37 non-instrumental studio albums (I excluded Xpectation and NEWS):

LOVE (I listen to these all the time):

• Dirty Mind
• Controversy
• Parade
• Sign O' the Times
• The Black Album
• Lovesexy
• The Truth
• The Rainbow Children
• 3121
• Lotusflower
• MPLSound
• Art Official Age
• HitNRun Phase One
• HitNRun Phase Two

LIKE (I listen to these occassionally):

• Prince
• 1999
• Purple Rain
• Around the World in a Day
• The Gold Experience
• 20Ten

"Meh" (I'll listen to these, but only rarely):

• For You
• Graffiti Bridge
• Diamonds & Pearls
• Love Symbol
• Choas and Disorder
• Crystal Ball
• Musicology
• The Chocolate Invasion
• The Slaughterhouse

Dislike (I'll never listen to these):

• Batman
• Come
• Emancipation
• The Vault... Old Friends for Sale
• Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic
• One Nite Alone
• Planet Earth
• Plectrum Electrum

[Edited 10/10/21 17:14pm]

lurker316 said:

We've had a million threads over the years on ranking Prince's albums. The topic is old, boring and pointless. I suspect that, for most of us, our rankings change overtime as our tastes evolve or we get bored of certain albums. And ranking requires a lot of hair splitting and apples-to-oranges comparisons.

It's also pointless in the sense that it doesn't matter. When each of us wants to listen to an album, the only question is: "Do I like it or not?" It's kind of binary. Does it make any difference if you like one album slightly better than another, or hate on album slightly worse than another?

With that in mind, I thought it might be interesting to put his studio albums into tiers, rather than a strict progression of #1 through #39. So here is my attempt at his 37 non-instrumental studio albums (I excluded Xpectation and NEWS):

LOVE (I listen to these all the time):

• Dirty Mind
• Controversy
• Parade
• Sign O' the Times
• The Black Album
• Lovesexy
• The Truth
• The Rainbow Children
• 3121
• Lotusflower
• MPLSound
• Art Official Age
• HitNRun Phase One
• HitNRun Phase Two

LIKE (I listen to these occassionally):

• Prince
• 1999
• Purple Rain
• Around the World in a Day
• The Gold Experience
• 20Ten

DISLIKE (I'll listen to these, but only rarely):

• For You
• Graffiti Bridge
• Diamonds & Pearls
• Love Symbol
• Choas and Disorder
• Crystal Ball
• Musicology
• The Chocolate Invasion
• The Slaughterhouse

HATE (I'll never listen to these):

• Batman
• Come
• Emancipation
• The Vault... Old Friends for Sale
• Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic
• One Nite Alone
• Planet Earth
• Plectrum Electrum

My heart hurts reading your hatred for Batman & Come....I'll agree w/ you on RAVE though

All those albums bar The Chocolate Invasion and The Slaughterhouse are at least 8/10.

To dislike or hate any of his albums is frankly asinine.

fortuneandserendipity said:

26ten said:

26ten said:

But first LURKER WHAT YOU HATE THE BATMAN ALBUM WTFFFF!!!!!! hehe jk But that album is sick (minus Arms of Orion which does NOT fit) Do you at least like Vicki Waiting or The Future? Or Electric Chair?! Just explain yourself RIGHT NOW (haha sorry)

The three songs you listed are the three songs on the album that I actually like (Electric Chair, Vicking Waiting, and The Future). I don't love them, but I think they're all pretty good. I wish I could edit the dialogue samples off the beginings of Vicking Waiting and The Future.

But my hate for all of the other songs on the album far out-balances my modest enjoyment of those three songs, which is why the album is so far down on my list.

26ten said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

All those albums bar The Chocolate Invasion and The Slaughterhouse are at least 8/10.

To dislike or hate any of his albums is frankly asinine.

Look this is all subjective anyway, proven by the fact that I think a pretty solid score for Chocolate Invasion is... probably about an 8/10 haha And I'd prefer a world where people all viewed his work as being straight badass but it's just not a perfect world I love questions like this. Gonna be back later to add mine.

Exactly, this is subjective. I wasn't offering my take to start an agrument on convince anyone that my placement of the albums is the correct one.

I was hoping other people would divide up the albums into these four (or similar) categories according to their own taste. It would be interesting to see who other people approach it. When albums are grouped (rather than placed on a scale) it can reveal patterns.

Music taste isn't subjective if you dig every genre. Trained music listeners will agree with the yet to be realized AI algorithm - 'there's no such thing as a bad Prince album.' One day.

LOVE

.

Purple Rain
Diamonds & Pearls
Come
The Gold Experience
Sign O' the Times
1999
NEWS
Lovesexy
3121
The Rainbow Children
Batman
Grafitti Bridge
HitNRun Phase Two
Love Symbol
Lotusflower
Exodus

.

LIKE

.

Chaos and Disorder

Emancipation

C-Note

Xpectation

The Black Album
Prince

Around the World in a Day

Art Official Age

Crystal Ball

Chocolate Invasion

The Truth

.

DISLIKE

.

Controversy

Dirty Mind

Planet Earth

MPLSound

Parade

Rave In2/Un2 the Joy Fantastic

Plectrum Electrum

For You

One Nite Alone

New Power Soul

20Ten

.

HATE

.

Musicology

The Slaughterhouse

The Vault... Old Friends for Sale

HitNRun Phase One

fortuneandserendipity said:

Music taste isn't subjective if you dig every genre. Trained music listeners will agree with the yet to be realized AI algorithm - 'there's no such thing as a bad Prince album.' One day.

That doesn't make sense. Having wide ranging tastes doesn't negate the fact that tastes are subjective.

With respect to the AI algorithm, you're reversing cause and effect. The algorithm itself isn't objectively derived. Rather, it's derived by aggregating the subject tastes of many people. In other words, it describes subjective tasts.

coldcoffeeandcocacola said:

I noticed its almost an exact split between all categories. LOVE (I listen to these all the time, many times a month): Come The Gold experience Plectrum electrum Planet earth Love symbol Crystal ball Chaos and disorder Chocolate invasion Purple rain Lovesexy Grafitti Bridge (p tracks only) Art official age Emancipation Exodus (you forgot this) Lotusflow3r LIKE (I listen to these a few times a month): Dirty Mind The Slaughterhouse Controversy Parade Sign O' the times The Black Album The Truth The Rainbow Children MPLSound HitNRun Phase One HitNRun Phase Two Around the World in a Day One nite alone New power soul (you forgot this) Cnote (you forgot this) DISLIKE (I'll listen to these a few times a year): For You Diamonds & Pearls Musicology Batman The Vault... Old Friends for Sale Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic 20ten 3121 (but listen to snl fury/blb alot) 1999 Prince Kamasutra (you forgot this) Gold zigga (you forgot this) Xpectation (you forgot this) HATE (I'll never listen to these): None Special shout out to the single SST/New Orleans as I always loved that and play it a lot I should say i listen to the greatest romance a lot but not rave as a whole and fury and blb on snl all the time but not 3121 Does anyone see an album I don't listen to so much and say WHAT??? [Edited 10/9/21 15:08pm]

I didn't miss those extra albums you listed. I wrote in my original post: "here is my attempt at his 37 non-instrumental studio albums (I excluded Xpectation and NEWS)." I was only going for studio albums released under his own name and excluded instrumental albums.

But with that said, I'm not complaining that you included those other albums in your list. Your list is your own and you should set whatever parameters you want.

As for whether I was surprised by any albums you don't like, two jumped out at me. 3121, which is one of my favorites, and 1999, which is a fan favorite in general. Truthfully, I don't listen to 1999 that much anymore. I made myself tired of it. Plus, all the music is a similar style throughout (it's not as eclectic as Sign o' the Times, his other genuis double album) which also makes me get tired of it fast.

lurker316 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Music taste isn't subjective if you dig every genre. Trained music listeners will agree with the yet to be realized AI algorithm - 'there's no such thing as a bad Prince album.' One day.

That doesn't make sense. Having wide ranging tastes doesn't negate the fact that tastes are subjective.

With respect to the AI algorithm, you're reversing cause and effect. The algorithm itself isn't objectively derived. Rather, it's derived by aggregating the subject tastes of many people. In other words, it describes subjective tasts.

I've heard the argument, subjective vs objective many times, and I don't believe it holds up. If, for example, I say all metal music is awful, that's flawed reasoning and thereby subjective. If I say, rather, some metal songs I really like and some I really dislike, I may be wrong in my conclusions, but in all likelihood that's still going to be closer to an objective truth about music than just to be, carte blanche, entirely against one music genre.

With (deep) respect to AI, true AI algorithm processing is thinking for itself - far from the idea that it's aggregating subject tastes of whatever the sound of the day is. That would be the role of data analytics, which is merely the processing or aggregating of data to determine popularity of a song, or how similar one song is to another, either stylistically or melodically.

Deep learning's approach to music, on the other hand, would qualify and discern how well a song...
A) coheres and makes sense
B) provides genuine hooks, element of surprise.

I look forward to the day when there will be an objective, validatory approach.

fortuneandserendipity said:

LOVE (I listen to these the most):
Dirty Mind

Controversy

Parade

Sign O' the Times

1999

Purple Rain

Around the World in a Day

Lovesexy

3121

Love Symbol

Planet Earth

HitNRun Phase Two

LIKE (I listen to these occassionally):
Prince

Batman

The Black Album

The Gold Experience

Come

Emancipation

Crystal Ball

Graffiti Bridge

Diamonds & Pearls

"MEH" (I'll listen to these, but very rarely):
For You

Choas and Disorder

Musicology

The Rainbow Children

Lotusflower

MPLSound

Art Official Age

Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic

HitNRun Phase 1

DISLIKE (I'll LIKELY never listen to these again):
The Chocolate Invasion

Welcome 2 America

The Slaughterhouse

The Vault... Old Friends for Sale

One Nite Alone

20Ten

Plectrum Electrum

The Truth

NEWS

Xpectation

Kamsutra

[Edited 10/10/21 11:20am]

LOVE (I listen to these the most):

The Gold Experience

Lovesexy

Sign O' the Times

Diamonds & Pearls

Purple Rain

One Nite Alone Live

Emancipation

Musicology

3121

LIKE (I listen to these occassionally):

Batman

1999

Love Symbol

Crystal Ball

Graffiti Bridge

Around the World in a Day

NEWS

Art Official Age

Planet Earth

HitNRun Phase Two

The Vault... Old Friends for Sale

One Nite Alone

20Ten

The Rainbow Children

Lotusflower

Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic

HitNRun Phase 1

Parade

Choas and Disorder

Plectrum Electrum

"MEH" (I'll listen to these, but very rarely):

Come

For You

Xpectation

The Chocolate Invasion

Welcome 2 America

The Slaughterhouse

Prince

Controversy

The Black Album

MPLSound

DISLIKE (I'll LIKELY never listen to these again):

The Truth

Kamsutra

Dirty Mind

[Edited 10/10/21 11:53am]

fortuneandserendipity said:

lurker316 said:

That doesn't make sense. Having wide ranging tastes doesn't negate the fact that tastes are subjective.

With respect to the AI algorithm, you're reversing cause and effect. The algorithm itself isn't objectively derived. Rather, it's derived by aggregating the subject tastes of many people. In other words, it describes subjective tasts.

I've heard the argument, subjective vs objective many times, and I don't believe it holds up. If, for example, I say all metal music is awful, that's flawed reasoning and thereby subjective. If I say, rather, some metal songs I really like and some I really dislike, I may be wrong in my conclusions, but in all likelihood that's still going to be closer to an objective truth about music than just to be, carte blanche, entirely against one music genre.

With (deep) respect to AI, true AI algorithm processing is thinking for itself - far from the idea that it's aggregating subject tastes of whatever the sound of the day is. That would be the role of data analytics, which is merely the processing or aggregating of data to determine popularity of a song, or how similar one song is to another, either stylistically or melodically.

Deep learning's approach to music, on the other hand, would qualify and discern how well a song...
A) coheres and makes sense
B) provides genuine hooks, element of surprise.

I look forward to the day when there will be an objective, validatory approach.

Short Version: AI can objectively identify elements in a song that critics subjectively like. That's not the same as saying the song is objectivley good.

Long Version:

1.) AI can't know on its own what makes a song good. It's dependent on input from human beings to teach it, right?

2.) This is achieved by humans inputting pre-selected songs that critics, at this point in time, deem subjectively good. The AI analyzes those songs to identify common elements.

3.) Next, if you play other songs for the AI, it will look for those common elements. Based on the degree to which they appear, the AI will objectively predict that critics, in the year 2021, will subjectively like that song.

In other words, due to the inclusion of certain elements, AI can tell you that critics are prone to subjectively deem a song good at this point in time. Critical opinion, being subjective, is not static; it evolves. What critics considered good 100 years ago is vast different than today. Similarly, what critics consider good 100 years in the future will be different that today. Consequently, the AI can only identify those elements that critics in 2021 deem subjectively. It can't predict what songs were good in 1921 or 2121.

If quality was really objective as you insist, and AI could measure it, then AI's algorthim should always work and not be limited to one era of history. However, the AI will need to be constantly updated with the evolving subjective trends of critics in order to maintain its predictive power.

[Edited 10/10/21 17:01pm]

lurker316 said:

lurker316 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

I've heard the argument, subjective vs objective many times, and I don't believe it holds up. If, for example, I say all metal music is awful, that's flawed reasoning and thereby subjective. If I say, rather, some metal songs I really like and some I really dislike, I may be wrong in my conclusions, but in all likelihood that's still going to be closer to an objective truth about music than just to be, carte blanche, entirely against one music genre.

With (deep) respect to AI, true AI algorithm processing is thinking for itself - far from the idea that it's aggregating subject tastes of whatever the sound of the day is. That would be the role of data analytics, which is merely the processing or aggregating of data to determine popularity of a song, or how similar one song is to another, either stylistically or melodically.

Deep learning's approach to music, on the other hand, would qualify and discern how well a song...
A) coheres and makes sense
B) provides genuine hooks, element of surprise.

I look forward to the day when there will be an objective, validatory approach.

Short Version: AI can objectively identify elements in a song that critics subjectively like. That's not the same as saying the song is objectivley good.

Long Version:

1.) AI can't know on its own what makes a song good. It's dependent on input from human beings to teach it, right?

2.) This is achieved by humans inputting pre-selected songs that critics, at this point in time, deem subjectively good. The AI analyzes those songs to identify common elements.

3.) Next, if you play other songs for the AI, it will look for those common elements. Based on the degree to which they appear, the AI will objectively predict that critics, in the year 2021, will subjectively like that song.

In other words, due to the inclusion of certain elements, AI can tell you that critics are prone to subjectively deem a song good at this point in time. Critical opinion, being subjective, is not static; it evolves. What critics considered good 100 years ago is vast different than today. Similarly, what critics consider good 100 years in the future will be different that today. Consequently, the AI can only identify those elements that critics in 2021 deem subjectively. It can't predict what songs were good in 1921 or 2121.

If quality was really objective as you insist, and AI could measure it, then AI's algorthim should always work and not be limited to one era of history. However, the AI will need to be constantly updated with the evolving subjective trends of critics in order to maintain its predictive power.

[Edited 10/10/21 17:01pm]

Stop with the IanRg type riddles. It's not about basing algorithms on what critics think, fans think, what type of plagiarizing melody it has or genre it belongs to, or what other band/artist it sounds like. Right there, you are not distinguishing between data analytics and genuine AI. The whole point about deep learning/AI is that it can think independently of emotional bias, or ongoing partial human inputs. The inputs are only parameters set up by humans (that is to say, programmers) at the very start. So the AI knows the rules of the game. But even they may not be necessary, as AI theoretically has the capability to determine regularity and order of patterns without even knowing the rules required to set them up. The AI would literally be self-thinking and self-adjusting, on the fly as it were, in order to become better cognizant of what determines the quality of music. Now this may take until 2100 to actually happen. We're talking cyborg level of intelligence here, far surpassing the smartest humans. But one day it will happen. Modern vomit-inducing music will have its day of reckoning, day of judgement. AI will seal its fate. These modern popstars will be consigned to the trash can. And if it happens in their lifetime, they will pay for their crimes against art.

coldcoffeeandcocacola said:

I noticed its almost an exact split between all categories. LOVE (I listen to these all the time, many times a month): Come The Gold experience Plectrum electrum Planet earth Love symbol Crystal ball Chaos and disorder Chocolate invasion Purple rain Lovesexy Grafitti Bridge (p tracks only) Art official age Emancipation Exodus (you forgot this) Lotusflow3r LIKE (I listen to these a few times a month): Dirty Mind The Slaughterhouse Controversy Parade Sign O' the times The Black Album The Truth The Rainbow Children MPLSound HitNRun Phase One HitNRun Phase Two Around the World in a Day One nite alone New power soul (you forgot this) Cnote (you forgot this) DISLIKE (I'll listen to these a few times a year): For You Diamonds & Pearls Musicology Batman The Vault... Old Friends for Sale Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic 20ten 3121 (but listen to snl fury/blb alot) 1999 Prince Kamasutra (you forgot this) Gold zigga (you forgot this) Xpectation (you forgot this) HATE (I'll never listen to these): None Special shout out to the single SST/New Orleans as I always loved that and play it a lot I should say i listen to the greatest romance a lot but not rave as a whole and fury and blb on snl all the time but not 3121 Does anyone see an album I don't listen to so much and say WHAT??? [Edited 10/9/21 15:08pm]

Your ranking of Graffiti Bridge explains my feelings towards the album entirely. The P tracks are SO good. Elephants and Flowers is my fav amongst them all. But the other songs are not at the same caliber even though there is some flashes of good stuff in there