independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > BrownMark talks about Prince in Forbes article
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 1 of 2 12>
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 09/16/21 11:13am

TrivialPursuit

avatar

BrownMark talks about Prince in Forbes article

Some of his claims statements:

"I produced the song “Kiss” and co-wrote. He presented that song in a very gutted form, it was just his voice with a guitar. And he gave that to me on a cassette and I made that song into what it is today."

"I gave him energy. He would always watch my moves. In some of the videos, he’ll be looking over at me with the side of his eye to see what I’m doing."

"I could do the Michael Jackson spins. I choreographed the group. So I could dance and move like a frontman on the bass."

The rest is in the article.


Forbes

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 09/16/21 11:53am

jfenster

so it was him... not wendy and lisa who made prince...

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 09/16/21 12:19pm

bwaaatch

Interesting to compare this to David Rivkin's memories of the same song.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7FVYX7tgy8


Kiss talk starts around 18.32


"He gave ME a demo of the first verse and chorus strummed on the acoustic guitar … Mazarati … a group sthat I was producing". He does use "WE" in reference to others he conversed with about how to handle Prince's Kiss demo. He claims he plays the guitar, and he gated it to the hit-hat, but again we have some "WE" programmed the drums. No mention of Brownmark.


Not picking sides or calling anyone out, just interesting to hear different takes and hear two people claim Kiss for their own with barely a mention of the other. I guess maybe interviewers lead people that way.

[Edited 9/16/21 12:19pm]

[Edited 9/16/21 13:11pm]

[Edited 9/16/21 13:12pm]

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 09/16/21 12:24pm

RODSERLING

Hilarious.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 09/16/21 12:46pm

kingricefan

So according to BM the Revolution made Prince a world wide superstar more famous than MJ and that anything Prince did after he disbanded the Revolution didn't count for anything.......(things that make you go hmmmmmmm)

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 09/16/21 1:42pm

motherfunka

avatar

rolleyes

TRUE BLUE
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 09/16/21 6:44pm

GustavoRibas

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

Some of his claims statements:

"I produced the song “Kiss” and co-wrote. He presented that song in a very gutted form, it was just his voice with a guitar. And he gave that to me on a cassette and I made that song into what it is today."
(...)

.

Production, arrangement and composition are separate things. Composition is all about melody (first) and sometimes, riffs, motifs, etc. And that ´Kiss´ tape had the full melody and harmony.
.

But I agree that the production and arrangements made the song exciting. David Z is the only one credited as an arranger, and maybe it wasnt fair to the other guys. But the songwriting is Prince´s.

[Edited 9/16/21 18:46pm]

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 09/16/21 7:02pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

GustavoRibas said:

.

Production, arrangement and composition are separate things. Composition is all about melody (first) and sometimes, riffs, motifs, etc. And that ´Kiss´ tape had the full melody and harmony.
.

But I agree that the production and arrangements made the song exciting. David Z is the only one credited as an arranger, and maybe it wasnt fair to the other guys. But the songwriting is Prince´s.


I'm not defending anyone here, just asking: but wasn't the song lacking a lot of the lyrics we now know? It was pretty short and stunted in comparison to the album version. So, did David Z or Brownmark write any extra lyrics? Did Prince? We know they were all there in Mazarati's version.

To bwaatch's point, "we" is often just a way of saying "I," and including everyone else in the process. MJ didn't make Thriller. "We" did - Q, MJ, Toto, etc. Ya know?

It's hard to know how much Brownmark actually contributed because despite his many interviews when Prince was alive, David Z. always said he's the one who gated that guitar in the hi-hat, etc; that they didn't quite know what to do with it at first, then started really fucking around with it and chopping it up. Sorta makes me wonder, did BM not say he did that song because he knew Prince would've shot him down or something? I mean, a dead man tells no tales, so he's quite free to bend history in his own way.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 09/17/21 4:04am

milesb

I suspect Prince would have been equally as great with or without Brownmark. Some of Prince's best music and best live performances were without Brownmark. No disrespect to Brownmark, and he may have been taken out of context, but I think Prince's greatness is probably unrelated to Brownmark. Shall We Dance is a great song Prince did for him. I rate it as one of the best protege tunes.

My password is what
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 09/17/21 7:30am

GustavoRibas

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

GustavoRibas said:

.

Production, arrangement and composition are separate things. Composition is all about melody (first) and sometimes, riffs, motifs, etc. And that ´Kiss´ tape had the full melody and harmony.
.

But I agree that the production and arrangements made the song exciting. David Z is the only one credited as an arranger, and maybe it wasnt fair to the other guys. But the songwriting is Prince´s.


I'm not defending anyone here, just asking: but wasn't the song lacking a lot of the lyrics we now know? It was pretty short and stunted in comparison to the album version. So, did David Z or Brownmark write any extra lyrics? Did Prince? We know they were all there in Mazarati's version.

To bwaatch's point, "we" is often just a way of saying "I," and including everyone else in the process. MJ didn't make Thriller. "We" did - Q, MJ, Toto, etc. Ya know?

It's hard to know how much Brownmark actually contributed because despite his many interviews when Prince was alive, David Z. always said he's the one who gated that guitar in the hi-hat, etc; that they didn't quite know what to do with it at first, then started really fucking around with it and chopping it up. Sorta makes me wonder, did BM not say he did that song because he knew Prince would've shot him down or something? I mean, a dead man tells no tales, so he's quite free to bend history in his own way.

.

Yes, if Mazarati wrote any lyrics, they should have been credited as co-writers. But, when it comes to melody and harmony, everything is already on that tape.

.

I think they did a brilliant job, really. But on the other hand, how would it sound without Prince´s guitar and voice? I think not so cool.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 09/17/21 10:33am

OperatingTheta
n

Just another bitter old fart vainly trying to claw some past glory to give himself relevance and esteem in the present.

Really nothing more than gilded victimhood.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 09/17/21 2:26pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

milesb said:

I suspect Prince would have been equally as great with or without Brownmark. Some of Prince's best music and best live performances were without Brownmark. No disrespect to Brownmark, and he may have been taken out of context, but I think Prince's greatness is probably unrelated to Brownmark. "Shall We Dance" is a great song Prince did for him. I rate it as one of the best protege tunes.


There's no way, at the time, Brownmark could've stood up to what Levi did for Madhouse, Sign O The Times or Lovesexy. Levi's playing was exemplary. Levi was also a more versatile player, bouncing from guitar or bass when needed. Did Mark know how to efficiently play guitar in 1984? Don't know.

Levi stuck with Prince for a good stretch, 1987-1993. Mark was there from what - 81-86? I mean, it's not a contest, but clearly the vibe wasn't there as much as portrayed. I don't remember Levi, Andre, Sonny, Rhonda, Ida, or anyone else being dropped kicked by Prince. Prince even hailed Sonny as one of his childhood heroes.

I'm not taking away from Mark being a good bass player, but if he was that good...

So yeah, Prince was great before, during, and after Brownmark's five-year stint. Prince was still kind to him, letting him rehearse at Paisley Park, and even use that set that Prince was going to possibly use for a new tour (the legs). But Mark needs to stop embellishing shit. We got Sheila for that.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 09/17/21 9:18pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Here we go again.

Brown Mark is so mad that he didn't become a star like Prince did.


They've all spouted this nonsense for 5 years now.


Very tiring.

U.S.A.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 09/17/21 11:12pm

Mumio

avatar

motherfunka said:

rolleyes

You're reading my mind!

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 09/17/21 11:14pm

Mumio

avatar

PennyPurple said:

Here we go again.

Brown Mark is so mad that he didn't become a star like Prince did.


They've all spouted this nonsense for 5 years now.


Very tiring.

I don't believe any of them. I'm fed up with the after-death stories from those folks.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 09/17/21 11:53pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

Mumio said:

I don't believe any of them. I'm fed up with the after-death stories from those folks.


I believe there's something to be said for the statement, "when you hear the truth, you know it," or "if it doesn't make sense, it's not true."

Now, that probably goes more for things in life when it comes to personal morality, convictions, and spirituality - things like that. But I do believe it's certainly a tool for situations like these. Sure, there are a dozen things plus another dozen we don't know about Prince, or anyone around him that knew him or worked for him. But there's also a moment when you think, "wait... what?"

When I hear Mark saying he made "Kiss" what it is today, that doesn't ring true. Because at any given time he could've said that. David Z. or any of the howevermany members of Mazarti could have said that. But they didn't. No one did until ol' boy was dead, gone and the ink was barely dry on the death certificate. Then it's a good time to go back and talk about what a big wig ya were in the band. Bruh, settle down. Sure, you were there for Purple Rain. Sure, you were in probably the most popular configuration of a Prince band. It was Z who got the "associate producer" credit, at best. It sure makes a good "oh yeah, well that's true" backup plan to say "he never wanted to let me shine."

OKAY THEN. We haven't heard the truth here, and I think that's why most of us are having the same reaction to his statements. I keep waiting for David Z or someone to set lil' man straight.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 09/18/21 12:07am

EnDoRpHn

TrivialPursuit said:



There's no way, at the time, Brownmark could've stood up to what Levi did for Madhouse, Sign O The Times or Lovesexy. Levi's playing was exemplary. Levi was also a more versatile player, bouncing from guitar or bass when needed. Did Mark know how to efficiently play guitar in 1984? Don't know.

Levi stuck with Prince for a good stretch, 1987-1993. Mark was there from what - 81-86? I mean, it's not a contest, but clearly the vibe wasn't there as much as portrayed. I don't remember Levi, Andre, Sonny, Rhonda, Ida, or anyone else being dropped kicked by Prince. Prince even hailed Sonny as one of his childhood heroes.


:yeahthat:

Levi absolutely had a big falling out with Prince, but that’s not the reason that people overlooked his musicianship and contributions as a producer. Levi is all over everything from Lovesexy to prince.

But what’s ironic is the falling out is not the reason Levi is overlooked. The record companies and the media look to the height of the Minneapolis hit-making machine for an explanation other than Prince’s innate talents, and find it in the Revolution. They not only ignore the THREE DECADES of music Prince created after 1986, but also allow anyone who was ever around him before 1985 to grab credit. That not only vastly diminishes Prince, it ignores many of the stellar musicians who contributed to his production, studio and live performances from an entire lifetime after the Revolution.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 09/18/21 3:51am

antonb

The song is all there on the demo he gave him. The lyrics, the feel of it, the melody. He’s talking bollocks, yes he and others might have added producion on it. But when I hear that demo I hear kiss the song through and through.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 09/18/21 4:34am

PennyPurple

avatar

Mumio said:

PennyPurple said:

Here we go again.

Brown Mark is so mad that he didn't become a star like Prince did.


They've all spouted this nonsense for 5 years now.


Very tiring.

I don't believe any of them. I'm fed up with the after-death stories from those folks.

That makes 2 of us.

According to most of them Prince did nothing but sing. They wrote, they produced, they made up the dances, they did it all. rolleyes

U.S.A.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 09/18/21 6:42am

homesquid

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

Some of his claims statements:

"I produced the song “Kiss” and co-wrote. He presented that song in a very gutted form, it was just his voice with a guitar. And he gave that to me on a cassette and I made that song into what it is today."

"Co-wrote"? Well, the Prince demo only has the first part of the song but the melody is 100% there as are the first lyrics. What we don't know for sure is if Prince wrote all the lyrics. That's really the only potential co-writing possibility. Producing the song from that demo is not songwriting. No way.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 09/18/21 9:19am

Robbajobba

avatar

I don't know who to believe, but David Z's subsequent work as a producer (especially with FYC on "Raw & The Cooked") always made me think he could definitely have come up with all the flourishes that made "Kiss" what it was. Also, IIRC he's talked step by step about what he did and where the inspirations came from... But who knows? Maybe Mark really did write more of the song / work on the demo - which David Z then produced further.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 09/18/21 10:44am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:


When I hear Mark saying he made "Kiss" what it is today, that doesn't ring true. Because at any given time he could've said that. David Z. or any of the howevermany members of Mazarti could have said that. But they didn't.

.

David Z has done numerous interviews over the decades in which he details his involvement in "Kiss". A simple Google search could have told you that.

.

Example: https://www.mixonline.com...iss-365014 .

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 09/18/21 10:52am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

The additional lyrics come from Prince. People, go fucking read Duane Tudahl's book instead of speculating. Sheesh. Hint: it's the 27 April 1985 entry.

.

Oh, and BrownMark talked about "Kiss" in 2003.

.

This whole thread is full of bullshit by fans who do zero effort to research anything and make wild proclamations that are easily debunked.

.

Also, don't even pretend that shitty demo Prince did would have been a worldwide hit. (That is the same BS as people who are dismissive of Sinead O'Connor's cover of NC2U: nobody gave a fuck about that song until she covered it.)

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 09/18/21 3:05pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:

TrivialPursuit said:


When I hear Mark saying he made "Kiss" what it is today, that doesn't ring true. Because at any given time he could've said that. David Z. or any of the howevermany members of Mazarti could have said that. But they didn't.

.

David Z has done numerous interviews over the decades in which he details his involvement in "Kiss". A simple Google search could have told you that.

.

Example: https://www.mixonline.com...iss-365014 .


I don't need it, nor your links. I'm good.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 09/18/21 3:07pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:

This whole thread is full of bullshit by fans ....


[Snip - luv4u]

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 09/18/21 8:32pm

hardwork

Robbajobba said:

I don't know who to believe, but David Z's subsequent work as a producer (especially with FYC on "Raw & The Cooked") always made me think he could definitely have come up with all the flourishes that made "Kiss" what it was. Also, IIRC he's talked step by step about what he did and where the inspirations came from... But who knows? Maybe Mark really did write more of the song / work on the demo - which David Z then produced further.

More to the point David Z. produced The Jets. More specifically he produced their massive funk/R&B hits "Curiosity" and "Crush on You." It wasn't just a one off. Those records were the epitome of the Minneapolis sound.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 09/18/21 9:26pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

hardwork said:

Robbajobba said:

I don't know who to believe, but David Z's subsequent work as a producer (especially with FYC on "Raw & The Cooked") always made me think he could definitely have come up with all the flourishes that made "Kiss" what it was. Also, IIRC he's talked step by step about what he did and where the inspirations came from... But who knows? Maybe Mark really did write more of the song / work on the demo - which David Z then produced further.

More to the point David Z. produced The Jets. More specifically he produced their massive funk/R&B hits "Curiosity" and "Crush on You." It wasn't just a one off. Those records were the epitome of the Minneapolis sound.


Bouncing from that, and to a larger point about some of these folks: I often don't think people realize just how much folks like David Z., Ricky Peterson (Paul's brother), and others have continued to work not just in the industry, but made some of the biggest hits around.

Oliver Leiber (who now played with fDeluxe, and Paul's band, whose father is famous as hell in music) produced and wrote big hits on Paula Abdul's Forever Your Girl album. St. Paul played on that record. Keith "KC" Cohen, Eddie M., Yvette Marine (from Mary Jane Girls), Jesse Johnson, Margie Cox (as Ta Mara) Ricky Peterson... all played, wrote, worked on her record.

I use her as an example (not going on about her singing or whatever, talkin' about the music here) because these folks from Mpls really did work all over the place, and helped carry on the talent and sound that they learned at home.

It's all pretty groovy.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 09/19/21 12:13am

ForceofNature

PennyPurple said:

Here we go again.

Brown Mark is so mad that he didn't become a star like Prince did.


They've all spouted this nonsense for 5 years now.


Very tiring.

I feel like people sharing these sentiments are not reading exactly what these people are saying about Prince and their musical contributions and just assume the worst

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 09/19/21 1:08am

TrivialPursuit

avatar

ForceofNature said:

I feel like people sharing these sentiments are not reading exactly what these people are saying about Prince and their musical contributions and just assume the worst


I mean, people can only go on what they say. We can't read their minds, so we are left to their actions and their words to know their narrative.

I don't believe anyone that worked around Prince is saying, "he'd be nothing without me." I also believe a lot of folks around Prince contributed something. If they didn't, they wouldn't be there. Prince was a genius, but he still feed on people's energy and listened to their ideas. Sometimes he incorporated them, sometimes not.

But to have someone suddenly come forward in the years after his death and repeatedly say, "I wrote that song," or "I made that song was it is!" is utterly ridiculous and disingenuous.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #29 posted 09/19/21 7:43am

lurker316

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:

TrivialPursuit said:


When I hear Mark saying he made "Kiss" what it is today, that doesn't ring true. Because at any given time he could've said that. David Z. or any of the howevermany members of Mazarti could have said that. But they didn't.

.

David Z has done numerous interviews over the decades in which he details his involvement in "Kiss". A simple Google search could have told you that.

.

Example: https://www.mixonline.com...iss-365014 .


@BartVanHemlen,

I think you misunderstood TrivalPursuit's point. I believe he was saying that if Brownmark was truly the mastermind behind Kiss, at some point over the years David Z would have made that clear -- but never once, in all of David Z's interview, did he give Brownmark that much credit.

The article you cite proves TrivalPursuit's point. In that interview, the only credit David Z gives Brownmark is laying down the bass line. That'a far cry from Brownmark's claim. So if you included that link believing it rebutted TrivialPursuit, you were mistaken.


 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 1 of 2 12>
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > BrownMark talks about Prince in Forbes article