Sorry, I'm just gonna put this out there. The racial divide has really been carved open aross social media with this project. Started in part by the quote that P "was unapologetically black" . The response from many long term white fans has been frankly hideous. As the days ticked by I notice that white music reviewers are dismissive & largely miss the point of the lyrics, likewise it's clearly noticeable that the album is widely loved by the BAME community.

Interesting & depressing in equal measure. Are we are a community now divided on our perception of what race P was ?

Uptown? ....nice whilst it lasted right....

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Sorry, I'm just gonna put this out there. The racial divide has really been carved open aross social media with this project. Started in part by the quote that P "was unapologetically black" . The response from many long term white fans has been frankly hideous. As the days ticked by I notice that white music reviewers are dismissive & largely miss the point of the lyrics, likewise it's clearly noticeable that the album is widely loved by the BAME community.

Interesting & depressing in equal measure. Are we are a community now divided on our perception of what race P was ?

Uptown? ....nice whilst it lasted right....

you sure about all that?

idk what the response has been like on social media, so i cant speak to the racial divide youre talking about, but nearly all reviews have been positive. and nearly all reviewers have been white guys.

so you might be just a tad off base there.

[Edited 8/12/21 4:31am]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

LoveGalore said:

I've definitely seem some really bonkers comments on social media by some white fans. But these kinds of wypipo exist every day and it has little to do with this album itself other than the fact that these kinds of wypipo love to claw back Prince's race so he can stand as some amorphous, colorless blob of sex in their minds. I'm sure for some white fans, the thought of being sexually aroused by a black man is jarring so he "transcends race" for them and their conscience is clean.

lol sorry what? sexually aroused? are you talking about straight hetero white dudes?

i dont think the arousal is an issue, its more just they dont want to deal with race.

ill be honest, i dont really care much for prince's lyrics on race. most of it is just bad writing about race. bad writing is bad writing. or uninteresting writing on race is uninteresting writing on race. i read quite a bit on race, and there are artists who are good at singing and writing about it. there are also plenty of bad songs on it.

do i want to deny he was black though? no.

his ways of expressing his blackness def changed over the years though, partly as he was just young and still learning and growing, but also yes, because he was a crossover star in the 80s, so it was a delicate line to tread. later i think he felt he didnt express his blackness enough so suddenly decided to make up for lost time, or he just had a sudden awakening, and felt he HAD to write about it. which is fine, but it doesnt mean i think he wrote great stuff on it. he wasnt nina simone, or gil scot heron. or marvin gaye for that matter (to use the example of someone who wasnt really a conistently political singer but made one political soul masterepiece).

i also dont think every black artist has to write about race or racism. they are still black. racism is racism. just cos youre a black artist does not mean you have to be a political one.

prince was more interesting to me as an artist who didnt tow usual party lines on race, or most things, really. and no, i didnt much care for princes conservative/vaguely republican patriot lyrics in the 80s either, but hey, america and ronnie talk to russia are better songs than say, we march.

[Edited 8/12/21 5:18am]

Number23 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

you sure about all that?

idk what the response has been like on social media, so i cant speak to the racial divide youre talking about, but nearly all reviews have been positive. and nearly all reviewers have been white guys.

so you might be just a tad off base there.

[Edited 8/12/21 4:31am]

Generally, people see what they want to see. And anyone trying to get a sense of perspective from social media needs to have a serious word with themselves. It’s very lifeblood is toxicity. And, ironically, this thread which ultimately seeks to highlight division does exactly what ‘Uptown’ was railing against. I’d ask the OP for evidence of his claim but if it’s going to be screengrabs from a few attention-seeking pricks on Twitter then your argument is built on sand my friend.

point taken but genuinely shocked at the volume of comments across twitter, facebook etc related to race. Agree that social media, inc the org is hugely toxic across any subject.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Number23 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said: Generally, people see what they want to see. And anyone trying to get a sense of perspective from social media needs to have a serious word with themselves. It’s very lifeblood is toxicity. And, ironically, this thread which ultimately seeks to highlight division does exactly what ‘Uptown’ was railing against. I’d ask the OP for evidence of his claim but if it’s going to be screengrabs from a few attention-seeking pricks on Twitter then your argument is built on sand my friend.

point taken but genuinely shocked at the volume of comments across twitter, facebook etc related to race. Agree that social media, inc the org is hugely toxic across any subject.

ive literally not seen any of the comments on twitter, etc.

wanna post a few links?

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

LoveGalore said:

I've definitely seem some really bonkers comments on social media by some white fans. But these kinds of wypipo exist every day and it has little to do with this album itself other than the fact that these kinds of wypipo love to claw back Prince's race so he can stand as some amorphous, colorless blob of sex in their minds. I'm sure for some white fans, the thought of being sexually aroused by a black man is jarring so he "transcends race" for them and their conscience is clean.

lol sorry what? sexually aroused? are you talking about straight hetero white dudes?

i dont think the arousal is an issue, its more just they dont want to deal with race.

ill be honest, i dont really care much for prince's lyrics on race. most of it is just bad writing about race. bad writing is bad writing. or uninteresting writing on race is uninteresting writing on race. i read quite a bit on race, and there are artists who are good at singing and writing about it. there are also plenty of bad songs on it.

do i want to deny he was black though? no.

his ways of expressing his blackness def changed over the years though, partly as he was just young and still learning and growing, but also yes, because he was a crossover star in the 80s, so it was a delicate line to tread. later i think he felt he didnt express his blackness enough so suddenly decided to make up for lost time, or he just had a sudden awakening, and felt he HAD to write about it. which is fine, but it doesnt mean i think he wrote great stuff on it. he wasnt nina simone, or gil scot heron. or marvin gaye for that matter (to use the example of someone who wasnt really a conistently political singer but made one political soul masterepiece).

i also dont think every black artist has to write about race or racism. they are still black. racism is racism. just cos youre a black artist does not mean you have to be a political one.

prince was more interesting to me as an artist who didnt tow usual party lines on race, or most things, really. and no, i didnt much care for princes conservative/vaguely republican patriot lyrics in the 80s either, but hey, america and ronnie talk to russia are better songs than say, we march.

[Edited 8/12/21 5:18am]

I... think you are idealizing Prince's early career, which avoided blatant discussions of race in favor of his haphazard political ideas, and using it to paint the entirety of his life.

Prince was very, very clear about where he stood on race issues beginning in the 1990s and never ceasing from there.

When a black man writes songs like "Slave" or "Dear Mr. Man" or "Avalanche" or "2045 Radical Man" or a whole host of others, it isn't because he's ambivalent on race. Prince was never ambivalent on race.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Number23 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said: Generally, people see what they want to see. And anyone trying to get a sense of perspective from social media needs to have a serious word with themselves. It’s very lifeblood is toxicity. And, ironically, this thread which ultimately seeks to highlight division does exactly what ‘Uptown’ was railing against. I’d ask the OP for evidence of his claim but if it’s going to be screengrabs from a few attention-seeking pricks on Twitter then your argument is built on sand my friend.

point taken but genuinely shocked at the volume of comments across twitter, facebook etc related to race. Agree that social media, inc the org is hugely toxic across any subject.

Aye, agreed. To me, Prince's ongoing conundrum from 1986 to 2006 was that white money built Paisley Park - and that's certainly a topic where angels fear to tread on the org. I predict this thread will take a toxic turn at one point, if it hasn't already, as many of us seem incapable of having a empathetic and mature conversation about the alchemic qualities of Prince's music and why, it its peak, his work was the epitome of the best (and sometimes worst!) sonic structures of both worlds.

Prince is often disliked by music 'purists' - viewed as a superficial showbiz Christmas tree with no depth. Both he and his music - by accident or design - were almost impossible to compartmentalise and market effectively, with most humans desiring homogenisation and compartmentalisation to maintain order in their minds. This near-fascistic yet prevailing conformist mindset in Western society often handicapped Prince's career - his outrageous diversity and unwillingness to 'walk in a straight line', as he put it, often saw him dismissed as too black for white audiences and too white for black listeners. His natural genius - an instinctive alchemy of all his influences - dismissed as pandering.

Yet, that man's ability to absorb and mutate the history of popular music through some kind of transmitter lightening rod osmosis then output it as a new alien formation filtered through some unfathomable internal metamorphisis or crystalis process is exactly what distinguised Prince's output from the rest of the 10,000 or so album releases in any given year. It had no nucleus - adhering to no solidified genre, like the vast majority if not all modern 'pop' music does. Prince had no interest in authenticity. He knew such a term was a sham to be sold and marketed. His music is timeless - and will be proven to be the peak of 20th century popular muisc in the centuries to come - because of this often deep alchemic strangeness and otherness and seemingly casual absorbsion of his concurrent cultural sonic surroundings. An alien amalgamation of so-called 'genres' that can sometimes repulse casual listeners - who subconciously desire a defined aural experience for sound to make sense to them. To me, it's when Prince has sailed too far in either direction to please a particular section of his audience that his music becomes deriative or generic. Thankfully, those occasions have been few and far between.

I'm only reacting to what I've heard other people say about his work. Confusion is often processed as dislike in many minds, but it's why Prince's music always demands repeated listenings - particularly from discerning music lovers. His songs can give up their secrets slowly. Yet, dismissivenes to such unique oddness in the popular music industry is certainly the prevailing attitude. It's a fast food culture - and Prince knew it. He wasn't made for these times.

I'm not on Facebook and don't follow any Prince fans or group on Twitter either so haven't saw anything of a prejudiced or racist nature being posted - just generally positive reviews online from, I assume, mainly white critics. But again I'm making assumptions. The only truth i genuinely know is my own and I enjoy the album despite my own deeply limited and flawed understanding of where it's coming from.

[Edited 8/12/21 7:37am]

I don't even know what BAME is 🤷🏻‍♂️

I also don't pay much attention to social media, so I'm out of the loop on a lot of things.

LoveGalore said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

lol sorry what? sexually aroused? are you talking about straight hetero white dudes?

i dont think the arousal is an issue, its more just they dont want to deal with race.

ill be honest, i dont really care much for prince's lyrics on race. most of it is just bad writing about race. bad writing is bad writing. or uninteresting writing on race is uninteresting writing on race. i read quite a bit on race, and there are artists who are good at singing and writing about it. there are also plenty of bad songs on it.

do i want to deny he was black though? no.

his ways of expressing his blackness def changed over the years though, partly as he was just young and still learning and growing, but also yes, because he was a crossover star in the 80s, so it was a delicate line to tread. later i think he felt he didnt express his blackness enough so suddenly decided to make up for lost time, or he just had a sudden awakening, and felt he HAD to write about it. which is fine, but it doesnt mean i think he wrote great stuff on it. he wasnt nina simone, or gil scot heron. or marvin gaye for that matter (to use the example of someone who wasnt really a conistently political singer but made one political soul masterepiece).

i also dont think every black artist has to write about race or racism. they are still black. racism is racism. just cos youre a black artist does not mean you have to be a political one.

prince was more interesting to me as an artist who didnt tow usual party lines on race, or most things, really. and no, i didnt much care for princes conservative/vaguely republican patriot lyrics in the 80s either, but hey, america and ronnie talk to russia are better songs than say, we march.

[Edited 8/12/21 5:18am]

I... think you are idealizing Prince's early career, which avoided blatant discussions of race in favor of his haphazard political ideas, and using it to paint the entirety of his life.

Prince was very, very clear about where he stood on race issues beginning in the 1990s and never ceasing from there.

When a black man writes songs like "Slave" or "Dear Mr. Man" or "Avalanche" or "2045 Radical Man" or a whole host of others, it isn't because he's ambivalent on race. Prince was never ambivalent on race.

im idealising his early career how exactly?

like i said his views, or his expression of those views, changed OVER THE YEARS. i.e they werent the same when he wrote radical man or avalanche because those came AFTER.

thats hardly controversial to suggest.

youd have to be blind to pretend that there wasnt any difference decade to decade.

prince always supported black causes, thats without a doubt. but did he draw explicit attention to that, or to his race, back in the 80s? id say no. and i think some people did not like that. the same way later on, some people did not like prince talking about race.

LoveGalore said:

genuine q, when you guys say people dont like the thought of being sexually aroused by a black man, do you mean that these guys want to have sex with prince, or they wish they were prince having sex with all the women he had sex with?

a garbage ideology term they made up to keep us apart and obsessing over our differences.

BAME--Black, Asian, Minority Ethnic

I had to look that up. Funny since the 2020 census shows that there's not so much "minority" now in the US (at least).
Aren't we ready to grow bp yet? We should SEE color as a difference and appreciate it as much as a different hair color--not as a slang reference that cheapens people.
Looks to me that neither BAME nor BIPOC are totally inclusive.
Who's going to come up with the longer acronym?

I am not part of the Black community yet I think it is great if the social commentary songs on W2A are especially resonating with that community. I personally like the W2A songs fairly well, but prefer Dear Mr. Man and Avalanche.

I don't doubt that there are people who get inflamed any time the race issue is brought up, and that they can spew their hate on people like Prince who address it.

What I have noticed beyond just Prince is there seems to be race talk fatigue even among many folks that haven't been reactionary in the past. I am not justifying it, but it is so clear that this is happening. I suspect it is part White Fragility (difficulty in really understanding privilege and systematic racism in any type of sustained way) as well the over-application of the word racism to so many things that it loses its meaning. If someone has ever said anything at any point in their life that is racially insensitive, they are automatically lumped as if they are part of the KKK. This prevents any meaningful dialogue about racism, personal or systematic, and just polarizes things further. Even on this otherwise decent OP, the overgeneralizing by including the false statement about white critics gets people to dismiss other more salient points made. And yes, Black male sexuality has been historically and probably to some extent still feared by bigots (i.e., black male/white female couples seem to experience way more negative public responses than white men/black women), But, I don't think little androgynous light brown skinned Prince stirred much Mandingo fear in the men. If anything, I think he stirred up homophobic reactions despite being straight. Also, I doubt if there are many white women left that would freak out if they felt that a Black Man was sexually attractive. That doesn't mean White women are never racist, but if anything Black men are over-sexualized and not valued enough for their other attributes.

The media as a whole have embraced this project. It's a decent album, not his best.

gandorb said: