Didnt even invite them on the W2A tour and then went all in with Ida (along with Hannah and Donna).

emesem said:

Didnt even invite them on the W2A tour and then went all in with Ida (along with Hannah and Donna).

Do you know what their relationship was? What agreement they had? How they knew each other? For how long? What the plans were for all of them after the album was recorded? Do you know they weren't invited on the tour?

How do you know there was 'ghosting' involved? Are you friends with Tal?

emesem said:

Didnt even invite them on the W2A tour and then went all in with Ida (along with Hannah and Donna).

I think they served the purpose of getting the music out of his system in 2010 with no real intention of getting this put there,

the 3rd eye move was after something changed. I feel that is a different event.

Listen to the podcasts. Tal and Chris both say they never heard from Prince again (after telling them how happy he was with the music). They are sad but not bitter about it and are happy the music is coming out now.

Rimshottbob said:

emesem said:

Didnt even invite them on the W2A tour and then went all in with Ida (along with Hannah and Donna).

Do you know what their relationship was? What agreement they had? How they knew each other? For how long? What the plans were for all of them after the album was recorded? Do you know they weren't invited on the tour?

How do you know there was 'ghosting' involved? Are you friends with Tal?

[Edited 8/3/21 8:04am]

Prince asks you to do something. You either

1) Drop everything and do it.

2) Tell him you are unavailable.

If you do the second more than twice, he seemingly forgets you and moves on until the next time you pop into his head.

With that group, there was never any reason for them to pop back into his head because Prince found 3rd Eye Girl and, after Hannah got pregnant, he moved onto the next concept.

Interesting he did a Tour with this Album's name even though none of the songs from this Album is played on the Tour or at least not at Madison Square Garden...

TOUR NAME: https://princevault.com/i...erica_Tour

[Edited 8/3/21 15:04pm]

tab32792 said:

Reading is fundamental and so is listening. Tal said he asked her to tour but she had other obligations with Herbie Hancock so he not only shelved the album but chalked the touring idea as they weren’t Available

Exactly. And for Prince, who for much of his life didn't "hear" any response that wasn't a yes (even when people gave him one), Tal might as well have ghosted him by being unavailable for the tour. To Prince, the situation was simple. He had a plan to tour with her now, she said no, must mean she's just plain not interested. Oh well. Move on. So he did, and the album, and his collaboration with Tal and Chris, got left behind.

Now, I know we hear (particularly from Elisa) that Prince wasn't quite the same a few years later, having developed some understanding that people really could have other things that could matter to them in addition to being there for him, but the way he responded to Tal is just the way he was for much of his life. It's pretty standard behavior. That's why people didn't give him no's, or beg off a call to the studio or rehearsal, until they were actually ready to leave the Prince world. Doing so might not matter at all, but it was also true that any single sign of ambivalence could be the one that meant Prince was done with you.

EddieC said:

tab32792 said:

Reading is fundamental and so is listening. Tal said he asked her to tour but she had other obligations with Herbie Hancock so he not only shelved the album but chalked the touring idea as they weren’t Available

Exactly. And for Prince, who for much of his life didn't "hear" any response that wasn't a yes (even when people gave him one), Tal might as well have ghosted him by being unavailable for the tour. To Prince, the situation was simple. He had a plan to tour with her now, she said no, must mean she's just plain not interested. Oh well. Move on. So he did, and the album, and his collaboration with Tal and Chris, got left behind.

Now, I know we hear (particularly from Elisa) that Prince wasn't quite the same a few years later, having developed some understanding that people really could have other things that could matter to them in addition to being there for him, but the way he responded to Tal is just the way he was for much of his life. It's pretty standard behavior. That's why people didn't give him no's, or beg off a call to the studio or rehearsal, until they were actually ready to leave the Prince world. Doing so might not matter at all, but it was also true that any single sign of ambivalence could be the one that meant Prince was done with you.

Yeah, or.... he saw this project as a collaboration with them, especially Tal. He didn't initially ask them to commit to more than some jam sessions and when he decided he wanted more, he found she wasn't available, so decided to do something else and shelved the project.

Not necessarily anything insidious, nefarious or even unusual behaviour-wise.

Based on what I've read and heard in the interviews, when he initially called them up, and even when they recorded, it seems that he wasn't certain he was going to make an album with them. When he decided to do so and then that he wanted to tour, Tal wasn't available. I think it was unusual for him to find people obliged to other artists of his own calibre - Herbie and Stevie are not Soul Asylum or Justin Bieber. He may have realized he missed his shot with this one. He probably thought it might happen later down the line, but by that stage he'd developed new projects and moved on.

None of this contradicts your narrative, but it just isn't an essential component.

When Prince asks his musicians can you come right now his next question is why aren't you here yet

wasitgood4u said:

EddieC said:

Exactly. And for Prince, who for much of his life didn't "hear" any response that wasn't a yes (even when people gave him one), Tal might as well have ghosted him by being unavailable for the tour. To Prince, the situation was simple. He had a plan to tour with her now, she said no, must mean she's just plain not interested. Oh well. Move on. So he did, and the album, and his collaboration with Tal and Chris, got left behind.

Now, I know we hear (particularly from Elisa) that Prince wasn't quite the same a few years later, having developed some understanding that people really could have other things that could matter to them in addition to being there for him, but the way he responded to Tal is just the way he was for much of his life. It's pretty standard behavior. That's why people didn't give him no's, or beg off a call to the studio or rehearsal, until they were actually ready to leave the Prince world. Doing so might not matter at all, but it was also true that any single sign of ambivalence could be the one that meant Prince was done with you.

Yeah, or.... he saw this project as a collaboration with them, especially Tal. He didn't initially ask them to commit to more than some jam sessions and when he decided he wanted more, he found she wasn't available, so decided to do something else and shelved the project.

Not necessarily anything insidious, nefarious or even unusual behaviour-wise.

Based on what I've read and heard in the interviews, when he initially called them up, and even when they recorded, it seems that he wasn't certain he was going to make an album with them. When he decided to do so and then that he wanted to tour, Tal wasn't available. I think it was unusual for him to find people obliged to other artists of his own calibre - Herbie and Stevie are not Soul Asylum or Justin Bieber. He may have realized he missed his shot with this one. He probably thought it might happen later down the line, but by that stage he'd developed new projects and moved on.

None of this contradicts your narrative, but it just isn't an essential component.

I agree with you. I don't see his behavior as that unusual--it's certainly within the range of things almost anyone could have done. Not meant to suggest anything particularly wrong about his character. And I think it's quite possible that with time he might have reconnected (or maybe not--I've seen references to him talking about the experience helping him "find his sound" or something similar, so maybe even without the same players he saw himself as carrying things forward anyway.) And obviously he revisited some of the material in later years, and that might have led to wanting to try another period with the band setup.

I guess my point originally was that I don't see much need for any "ghosting" to be explained. A few weeks of work or so, however productive, is not necessarily something that leads to relationships that should be expected to continue. Especially since everything had to stop for awhile for Tal's other obligations. Prince wasn't gonna hold up, and since by his own account his favorite music was whatever he was making now, as much as he might have liked things with Tal and Chris, things were gonna move on.

I don't see what the controversy is. I think it boiled down to the fact that Tal was already booked up to tour with Herbie Hancock.

toejam said:

I don't see what the controversy is. I think it boiled down to the fact that Tal was already booked up to tour with Herbie Hancock.

This^^^^^

tab32792 said:

Reading is fundamental and so is listening. Tal said he asked her to tour but she had other obligations with Herbie Hancock so he not only shelved the album but chalked the touring idea as they weren’t Available

Exactly. Her year was already booked with Herbie Hancock AND Jeff Beck. She made the right call. Only Prince can be a flake and still have a career.

Tal Wilkenfeld is the trigger. She is a very talented bass player. Prince has an eye for talent. She played with the best of the earth, Jeff Beck, Herbie Hancock. Plus she is very good looking, open en young. Prince loved young woman. All the ingrediants for him to be interested. Did you see Stratus and Cause we've ended as lovers from Jeff Beck live with Tal on bass? Pure enjoyment to the ears and the eyes. A raw diamond at the time. He wanted her in the band but she was already committed to play withe Herbie Hancock. One of the reasons I think ' Welcome 2 America' was not released.