Hi everyone.

I’ve been sitting on this rant for a week, however I wanted to wait until W2A hit streaming services to confirm for certain that the sound issues we’ve been concerned about were indeed on the finished album.

I appreciate that not every release is going to be perfect in terms of quality. Given that the estate are largely dealing with tape that degrades over time, coupled with the fact that Prince didn’t do a great job of properly backing up and preserving his work, not everything is going to be crystal clear.

Having said that, if the estate is not going to be transparent about the flaws in the products they are selling, then I am no longer willing to buy any future releases until I’ve heard them for myself.

Within the past two years we’ve had ‘The Versace Experience’ which was sourced from a cassette, SOTT:SD that featured one track with tape warble and one track that was a botched hybrid between two sources, and now we have a studio album with audio distortions and clicking from what we assume to be scratched CD-R.

I’m particularly annoyed in the case of ‘Welcome 2 America’ for a couple of reasons. If this was a multi disc box set of 50+ studio tracks and a couple of the vault tracks were below par in terms of quality it’s not ideal, but if I can see an effort had been made with the rest of the set then I can be generous and assume the estate had tried their hardest and exhausted all the sources available.

This is a twelve track album that (according to the official podcast) was originally recorded on tape. Yet Michael Howe says this finished album was sourced from some CD-Rs and the audio issues we’re experiencing seem to reflect that. Why didn’t anyone, at any stage of the process, point out that the audio quality is below par and suggest they resort to using the original master tapes, as they have done with multiple releases up until now?

Are these audio glitches a result of laziness? Did Sony just not want to go to the expense of remastering from the original tapes? I can’t believe Sony have had the nerve to charge people $99 for a deluxe edition of this flawed release. Also, if this album has been sourced from CD-Rs as these audio glitches seem to suggest, how comes Sony are selling a 24bit, 96kHz digital edition?

Over the past three months we’ve seen multiple interviews with the original band and even the co-producer, where they have told us repeatedly how special this record is. If it’s so important to them then why didn’t anyone make a big deal of the fact that the master they have used contains flaws. Surly they must have noticed. Didn’t the co-producer realise that this release has problems? Also why have none of the reviews highlighted these issues? Everyone who heard this album in advance has chosen to be silent about this!

I’m not saying that tracks with audio issues are deal breakers and will stop me from buying Prince’s music completely. However, it will have an impact on how much I am willing to spend, which editions I choose to buy, or whether I wish to support a particular release at all.

If the estate decides to start being more transparent about these issues (providing details about exactly how a release has been sourced, the process by which an album has been mastered, any problems they may have encountered etc.) then maybe I’d feel differently. Until that day comes they are going to have to work a lot harder for my investment.

What are your thoughts on this matter? Are you growing tired of releases with these sorts of problems? Am I making too bigger deal of this? Are these issues damaging Prince’s discography / legacy? Are you happy to carry on pre-ordering despite these issues? Let me know what you think.

Wishing you all a great weekend.
VC

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[Edited 7/29/21 22:55pm]

I didn't hear it first time but I just got to Stand Up and B Strong on my headphones and yeah that's pretty bad.

[Edited 7/29/21 23:43pm]

I immediately noticed the audio glitches in "Stand Up & B Strong" when I first heard it.

There are also some very slight glitches in "1010" and "Same Page, Different Book."

I hope these are not present in any of the physical editions but unfortunatley they probably will be.

Yeah, I can't imagine that the streaming services just got sent out a bad master, it's more than likely on all versions.

This is why I always download before determining my decision as to whether purchasing or not.

You've put forth a great case with pertinent examples, but as long as there are people less informed or less picky or collectors that just have to have everything, the Estate will continue to deliver products that could be drastically better than they are.

Classic examples; millions have bought 2 Pac albums, despite remixes that are antithetical to the original intent of the songs and millions have bought Michael Jackson's albums, despite an impersonator singing on some tracks. This is really just the sad nature of postumous releases for artists of this calibre - it'll sell regardless of quality or legitimacy.

Don't care / delighted to get the music in my hand at all.

Given how much I've enjoyed certain boots over the years many of which have been in horrific quality, to be able to hear 'new' Prince music is still a thrill, so I'll keep buying everything they put out.

I noticed those too on first listen. If my $100 deluxe edition hadn't already shipped, I'd cancel it and just stick with the $12 cd.

VaultCurator said:

SOTT:SD that featured one track with tape warble and one track that was a botched hybrid between two sources,

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And a concert recording at the wrong speed. And PAAM83 also had tape issues.

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This is a twelve track album that (according to the official podcast) was originally recorded on tape. Yet Michael Howe says this finished album was sourced from some CD-Rs

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Except Morris Hayes says he gave them an alternate version of one of the tracks, so presumably this collection isn't the one from the CDRs(?). Plus there's a photo from the police files where you can see multi-track tapes of the songs from W2A. Oh, and Morris says the songs he produced (nine of the tracks, in his home studio) were done by using a CD, so that's a mixdown of the raw source he used presumably. All of this is confusing and unclear.

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The Apple Digital master sounds wonderful.

No issues, perfect in headphones and car speakers.

VaultCurator

Can you let us know in more details what issues you're experiencing?

I'm not going to get the chance to headphone listen to the album until tomorrow night. So if you can let us know what to listen out for then we can make some notes.

Also can you remind me which SOTT SDE had tape warble? I thought I noticed more than one track with it to be honest.

Totally agree with you on the spin that the Estate et al are giving on the quality issues and other things too. There's the Erotic City intro glitch, and the Japanese HMPL CD issues too.

The audio quality of releases has troubled me for years to be honest. I don't think you are making too much of these issues. If the legacy is important then the Estate et al should treat the commercial releases accordingly, not half-assed.

This should really extend to all areas of the releases - from the historical ret-conning and cultural / political bandwagon hopping all the way to how the SDE extra material is chosen.

I've just about managed to reconcile my own issues concerning the audio quality by reading Duane T's wonderful books - the mantra repeated over and over again (usually by Susan Rogers) that as long as the tape was rolling then the finer details of getting the perfect audio quality didn't matter. So what I deduce from that is we either got 1000+ songs with an assortment of SQ issues or if Prince had gone down the avenue of perfect SQ how manysongs would never even got to tape 100? 200? I'll take quantity over quality but I'll draw the line at tape warblewobblywobble. lol.

I didn't buy any of the legacy reissues at all. They seem like a cash grab. Furthermore the multi-coloured limited edition vinyls I also skipped. Cash grab too.

You're not ranting and you've been quite level-headed and articulate in your points as you always are.

Have a lovely weekend too and hope you're enjoying the album!

As the proud buyer, owner and once happy listener of ancient bootlegs like 'Chocolate box' and 'Charade', may I just say some people don't realise when they got it good?

Buy it or don't.

[Edited 7/30/21 4:14am]

ThePersian said:

VaultCurator

Can you let us know in more details what issues you're experiencing?

I'm not going to get the chance to headphone listen to the album until tomorrow night. So if you can let us know what to listen out for then we can make some notes.

Also can you remind me which SOTT SDE had tape warble? I thought I noticed more than one track with it to be honest.

Totally agree with you on the spin that the Estate et al are giving on the quality issues and other things too. There's the Erotic City intro glitch, and the Japanese HMPL CD issues too.

The audio quality of releases has troubled me for years to be honest. I don't think you are making too much of these issues. If the legacy is important then the Estate et al should treat the commercial releases accordingly, not half-assed.

This should really extend to all areas of the releases - from the historical ret-conning and cultural / political bandwagon hopping all the way to how the SDE extra material is chosen.

I've just about managed to reconcile my own issues concerning the audio quality by reading Duane T's wonderful books - the mantra repeated over and over again (usually by Susan Rogers) that as long as the tape was rolling then the finer details of getting the perfect audio quality didn't matter. So what I deduce from that is we either got 1000+ songs with an assortment of SQ issues or if Prince had gone down the avenue of perfect SQ how manysongs would never even got to tape 100? 200? I'll take quantity over quality but I'll draw the line at tape warblewobblywobble. lol.

I didn't buy any of the legacy reissues at all. They seem like a cash grab. Furthermore the multi-coloured limited edition vinyls I also skipped. Cash grab too.

You're not ranting and you've been quite level-headed and articulate in your points as you always are.

Have a lovely weekend too and hope you're enjoying the album!

I think the warble culprit is Wally. It may be that the master tape itself is damaged, in which case there isn't much that can be done, I think VC is just asking for transparency from the estate. Personally, I'd rather it was released as it is, if the alternative is to not have it at all.

As for legacy reissues, they absolutely aren't a cash grab. I haven't brought any because I have them all but the point of these is to make the music availalble for people that don't already own it. If each one had one new song added to it, then yeah, that would be a cash grab because they know we would all want those new songs.

@Romeoblu

Hi Romeoblu. Unfortunately I don't have access to the CD or the record. I have heard these issues on both the official stream (via Qobuz), and on some of the official podcast clips.

@bluegangsta

Thank you Bluegangsta. It really is a shame that so many fans are settling for less (re: 2Pac and MJ).

@1p1p1i3

I can respect that.

@AhPook

Sorry to hear that AhPook. I hope you enjoy the set all the same.

@BartVanHemelen

Yes, it isn't completely cut and dry how the album was compiled. I'm struggling to believe there was no better source given how this album was recorded relatively late in Prince's lifetime.

@Polo1026

That I cannot explain.

@ThePersian

Thank you very much for this response ThePersian. It was 'Wally' that had the noticeable tape warble on SOTT:SD. When I get a chance later I'll listen to W2A closely and make some notes as to where the sound issues are most noticeable. Speak soon. All the best.

@Marrk

Marrk, I love and treasure a lot of bootlegs myself. Forgive me for holding Sony records to higher standards.

@Marrk

Marrk, I love and treasure a lot of bootlegs myself. Forgive me for holding Sony records to higher standards.

Well you really shouldn't. Sony has form.

At least there isn't a Prince imposter on three of the tracks!

TheEnglishGent said:

I think VC is just asking for transparency from the estate. Personally, I'd rather it was released as it is, if the alternative is to not have it at all.

Hi EnglishGent,

Indeed. Let me be clear. I'm not saying that material that is not in perfect condition should remain unreleased. At the same time I think that every effort should be made to try and avoid these issues, and where it can't be helped the fans should know what they are spending their money on in advance.

I think releases like this should have a sticker placed on with a disclaimer along the lines of...

"Mastered from the best available source. Every effort has been made to present this material in the best sound quality that can be achieved. Due to the method of which this recording was preserved this release contains minor audio defects."

Marrk said:

@Marrk

Marrk, I love and treasure a lot of bootlegs myself. Forgive me for holding Sony records to higher standards.

Well you really shouldn't. Sony has form.

At least there isn't a Prince imposter on three of the tracks!

We hope there isn't

I must say that I haven't yet noticed the clicks on Stand Up and B Strong. I'm not going to go looking for them because I fear that it may be something that cannot be unheard. For now I'll just be grateful for my lack of hearing

Maybe there wasn't anything that could be done? Maybe any flaws are just there in the master? People's frustration is from there not being any answers or information.

VaultCurator said:

Born 2 Die and Stand Up And B Strong are the most glaring examples, but it would not surprise me if the entire record was sourced from a CD-R. It's a shame because it's warm, organic-sounding music that would really benefit from greater clarity and fullness.

Let's hope there is some clarification from the Estate on how it was put together. Surely if they had access to the master tapes they wouldn't have settled for a CD-R copy.

With quite a few vocal people here on the forum being linked with a some of the contributors on this album, did anyone already ask Morris f.i. why we ended up with this type of quality?

I can understand that some of the old recordings have their problems of deterioration after x decades but this shouldn't be the case with an album this recent.

[Edited 7/30/21 8:08am]

Polo1026 said:

The Apple Digital master sounds wonderful.

No issues, perfect in headphones and car speakers.

I listened to the Apple Music version this morning. Listen again to Stand Up and B Strong.

... and I'm here still waiting for my shipping notice for the albums...

It is entirely possible that Morris's arrangements only survived on a couple of CDRs he burned back then (remember, poor guy had his studio burned down a few years ago!), therefore even though the the Estate has the analog multitracks, those only contain Prince's original, bare recordings.

Kares said:

It is entirely possible that Morris's arrangements only survived on a couple of CDRs he burned back then (remember, poor guy had his studio burned down a few years ago!), therefore even though the the Estate has the analog multitracks, those only contain Prince's original, bare recordings.

That's what I was thinking as well; to do this in a perfect way he will probably need to start from scratch. And maybe there is an in between stage where Prince already made a mix (on computer) and that particular version was the source for Morris? We don't know how many gaps there are between the tapings and Morris receiving material to work on.

zobilamouche said:

With quite a few vocal people here on the forum being linked with a some of the contributors on this album, did anyone already ask Morris f.i. why we ended up with this type of quality?

I can understand that some of the old recordings have their problems of deterioration after x decades but this shouldn't be the case with an album this recent.

[Edited 7/30/21 8:08am]

The direct question was posed to Duane on Facebook, who usually answers every post directed towards him, and he isn't touching it with a ten foot pole. I'm sure once you work for the Estate you've got NDA's, and even if not, these guys don't want to blow their future opportunities. It would be nice if someone would step up and explain the sound issues though. To release inferior product onto the market that people are paying money for, and to not explain or even acknowledge the defects is deceptive, and it will create mistrust in the brand.

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[Edited 7/30/21 10:43am]

TheEnglishGent said:

Maybe there wasn't anything that could be done? Maybe any flaws are just there in the master? People's frustration is from there not being any answers or information.

I thought the same. Maybe they should have dropped the problematic tracks and tacked them on as bonuses with a disclaimer?