RJOrion said:

Get Stupid!

i thought it was, "Git Stoopid!"

Prince took full responsibility for "Jughead".

He even says in the song, rather low key, "this was my idea".

He liked it so much he even recycled the guitar riff for "The Exodus Has Begun".

LoveGalore said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

i guess thats my point

yeah, he had a new 90% black band

but he was also going for the big pop hits more than he had done since 84 more or less

so a pretty mixed album

hardly a 'back to funk and rnb!' album.

Please point to me the "white" songs on D&P.

thunder

D&P

but the point is its a mix on the whole

saying something is 'black' or 'white' musically seems a bit ridic

but its easier to say that despite the media promo that 'its prince trying to court the black audience again' (i remember seeing pieces saying that, and then theres tony ms quote in possessed about 'ramming the black down his throat' and rosie saying that songs like money dont matter were there to show prince hadnt lost touch), it wasnt really prince returning totally to his R&b and funk base again. or at least not obviously, he did it his own way.

Romeoblu said:

I never hated Jughead. I do think it's the low point of the album however. I like Prince's rap. Personally I would have kept Horny Pony on the album and made Jughead the b side.

I'd say Push and Jughead are equally bad. I don't mind Tony M's voice. He sounds kind of like Chuck D. Rosie and Prince, however, so not need to be rapping. Especially Rosie.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

LoveGalore said:

Please point to me the "white" songs on D&P.

thunder

D&P

but the point is its a mix on the whole

saying something is 'black' or 'white' musically seems a bit ridic

but its easier to say that despite the media promo that 'its prince trying to court the black audience again' (i remember seeing pieces saying that, and then theres tony ms quote in possessed about 'ramming the black down his throat' and rosie saying that songs like money dont matter were there to show prince hadnt lost touch), it wasnt really prince returning totally to his R&b and funk base again. or at least not obviously, he did it his own way.

It became a de facto "black" album because it came out about two weeks after Nevermind by Nirvana and every white music fan went off in the rock, anti-slick direction while Prince continued to double down on glossy, polished R'n'B throughout the 90s.

every white music fan? you think everyone liked nirvana? hip, cool, young people went with grunge.

glossy pop was still being made.

i mean, even in rock, guns n roses were still big news in the early 90s.

they released two albums on the same day!

and they def werent like nirvana.

Listen, if we're using big terms like "black" and "white" we're talking in broad, BROAD strokes. Stop misunderstanding me on purpose.

How many bands that looked like Guns and Roses were signed in 1992/1993? How many bands that looked like Nirvana were signed in 1992/1993?

[Edited 3/4/21 3:00am]

I always thought Rosie's rapping was worse than Tony Ms.

Unbearable

"They call me Rosie G, and i just don't care"

PurpleHigh said:

Dazza said:

I've recently been really into Diamonds & Pearls Beginnings, where there's no (or virtually no?) Tony M. and minimal Rosie Gaines. It's a whole different album with them not on it!

I'm hoping that something like this gets included in the deluxe version. Alternate Insatiable with more spoken word at the end, etc.

I'm sure the Cream and Gett Off EP cuts will be on there.

rosie was great on D&P

just not on jughead

jughead is actually a fun song, if you delete the verses

it should just be a vamp type thing they did on tour

no one wants to hear all that silly/corny rapping.

lol at rj orion naming a list of female rappers who were good, then saying no women have ever been good at rapping. can you say hilariously transparent sexism?

good female rappers -

bahamadia

queen latifah

lil kim

cardi b

mc lyte

heather b

salt n pepa

rah digga

nicki minaj

in fact, prince would have been better off working with female rappers, rather than guys like tony m or tc ellis. but he prob knew that guys like rj orion would then have said prince was weak and working with inferior women rappers rather than great male rappers like tony and tc ellis loooool

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

you sound about 70 years old.

you also lack any kind of understanding of intellectual consistency.

what you wrote is below.

and what you said is all female rappers suck, except six of them.

lol.

missy elliot was never a 'good rapper' btw, but she was a good artist, who made a lot of good records and videos.

the idea that all modern female rappers are strippers who suck as rappers is also dumb. cos say what you want about cardi b, she can make hard bangers. eg. money bag, bodak yellow.

Prince should have never let Rosie rap...clearly not her strength...other than rap legends like MCLyte, Foxy Brown, Lil Kim and Rah Digga or Missy Elliott...or even the slept on Jean Grae...none of the female rappers have ever been very good... the female rappers now are all converted whores who someone trained to rhyme and then ghostwrote their lyrics...thats not hiphop, thats strip-hop

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

What a peachy and loving place this site can be.

Cardi B a good rapper? Just.........just damn.

[Edited 3/4/21 13:15pm]

RJOrion said:

and you named 9 female rappers (since 1980)...3 of which i already named...in fairness ill give you bahamadia and latifah (who needed ghostwriters and switched to acting)..that leaves 4 others in FORTY YEARS... i can name 100s of better male rappers...face reality, some jobs are more equipped for male employees... contact sports, rapping, break dancing, being a father, being a soldier, construction worker, being President Of The United States, etc... thats not sexism, thats a fact of life...basic nirds and bees stuff...the only women that have any kind of career rapping, are the ones willing to take off their clothes, swing around a pole, and say childish rhymes about they wet ass pussy...im not the sexist one, its the way current music is produced, presented and packaged...take the sexism claims up with The Gatekeepers...trying to be so politically correct in spite of differing reality, is corny and played out, and its the epitome of sheep mentality...keep it 100

so youre just gonna double down on your stupidity, when i clearly said other than before i said none of ...meaning (for the slow) "other than these women, none of the others are very good...if you cant read or understand, just look at the pretty pictures when theyre posted...youre trying way too hard and saying nothing of any substance...as usual

i wont resort to the childish personal attacks but using your line of logic, you could say the same for any career or walk of life.

fact is, yeah, rap is male dominated. yes, the 'best' rappers are male. thats obvious. but thats the same in most genres.

there arent as many female artists in rock music. is it cos women cant do rock music?

there arent many women in jazz except for singing. maybe women cant play instruments?

i cant think of many women drummers except sheila e or cindy blackmon. i guess women suck at playing drums too?

lol@being a father as a job women arent very good at.

its not about being politically correct, its just that if you resort to making everything a game of numbers, well then, the only thing women are best at is being a mother according to your logic. cos thats the job that most women do, right? and maybe a few jobs like being a secretary or nurse, but only cos men dont want do do those jobs i guess (lol).

[Edited 3/4/21 13:41pm]

blacknote said:

Cardi B a good rapper? Just.........just damn.

[Edited 3/4/21 13:15pm]

i dont really care about 'good rapper' in the technical sense.

not everyone has to be nas. or eminem (waiting for rj orion to tell me white rappers all suck, except for a small number ofc).

fact is she can make hard bangers.

yeah she might make songs about sex, but who cares.

so did biggie.

nicki minaj's Pink Friday: Roman Reloaded, the rap half, is one of the greatest rap albums of the modern era.

same for invasion of privacy.

if you cant see that, well, youre missing out.

[Edited 3/4/21 14:04pm]

Spurred on by ufoclub, I took PurpleHigh's challenge and had another listen to Jughead … possibly the first time I've deliberately sought it out in my collection …

Observations …

1) As ufoclub says it IS very similar to Housequake in many ways. Tempo and vibe are similar, and there is a kind of beatbox redition of the famous HQ drum line low in the mix. So not only is it like HQ, they all KNOW it's like HQ.

2) 'New dance commercial Take 2' – was Take 1 Horny Pony? I agree with other who've said that he has made a strng of sorrys that seem to be promoting a particular dance, which often seems to be invented. It's a fun idea, I like that he returns to it. I also think Housequake is in that catergory – telling people how to do a dance.


3) Resemblance to HQ made me wonder whether it came directly from an HQ jam. I think he was still playing HQ live in 1990, and it had become increasingly aligned with the Batman/New Jack kind of sound he was aiming for around then (and thus lost a lot of appeal, for me). Would be interested to learn (as I hope we will from a future volume of Duane's books) whether this is possible.


4) I still don't really like it Aside from the quality and content of the rapping, the sound choices of the music is just not my taste. The drumming is kind of interesting, but soemhow robotic. The orchestra hits at this stage were super played out.


5) Glad I gave it another minute! But that was all … Maybe when the remaster hits I'll try again.

[Edited 3/4/21 14:35pm]

you can all shit on jughead as much as you want but the guitar from 3:10 up until about 3:55 is great. is that still the guitar at the very end or is that the bass? love it. wish it had been an instrumental

blacknote said:

jaawwnn said:

It became a de facto "black" album because it came out about two weeks after Nevermind by Nirvana

Yeah that's not really sounding right. You had a lot of crossover and then there were r&b artists that white people just never heard of, and still haven't to this day. Prince was in his own category, and that record kinda didn't fully appeal to any one audience. They were fun songs then but the draw was that it was Prince. Where Prince was the bridge between rock and funk, and r&B, he'd changed the culture already so he seemed glossy and almost adult contemporary with this record.

The other thing is Nirvana and the grunge "punk" groups of the time did connect with some Black fans. The cultural segregation was starting to come down around then and it became a marketing novelty, to combine rape and rock, mostly for white audiences benefit (I don't mean Limp Bizkit crap, I mean booking tours like Lollapalooza, etc.).

of all the prince songs around, i doubt nirvana would have done gett off lol.

they did not do sexual content like that.

steakfinger said:

I'd say Push and Jughead are equally bad. I don't mind Tony M's voice. He sounds kind of like Chuck D. Rosie and Prince, however, so not need to be rapping. Especially Rosie.

WOAH WOAH WOAH! I don't mind you liking Tony M or whatever. I can take him or leave him but DO NOT compare him to Chuck D! My all time favorite rapper

Se7en said:

I've recently been really into Diamonds & Pearls Beginnings, where there's no (or virtually no?) Tony M. and minimal Rosie Gaines. It's a whole different album with them not on it!

Indeed. Those versions are a breath of fresh air.