udo said:

LoveGalore said:

None of what udo says ever is based in logic.

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If you cannot see the logic, then why are you making such statements?

Your logic says that they should put whatever in any boxset to sell the stuff.

That is logic yes, but does not work with any context at all.

And context is important.

The boxset covers the era pretty comprehensively (exlclusing previously released stuff, such as Dream Factory, because it's redundant).

They've chosen to go in chronological order, which makes perfect sense, even if it doesn't flow like Crystal Ball (1998). But we're in an era where you can create your own tracklist with ease.

Wendy & Lisa and the Revolution are a fundamental part of this era because they were still around when it started. What other collection are you going to put Dream Factory tracks on?

Your comment on the format of the book/discs in just bizarre. The discs need to be at the front because the music is more important than the book? It's completely nonsensical.

leecaldon said:

udo said:

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If you cannot see the logic, then why are you making such statements?

Your logic says that they should put whatever in any boxset to sell the stuff.

That is logic yes, but does not work with any context at all.

And context is important.

The boxset covers the era pretty comprehensively (exlclusing previously released stuff, such as Dream Factory, because it's redundant).

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That was not the point...

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Wendy & Lisa and the Revolution are a fundamental part of this era because they were still around when it started. What other collection are you going to put Dream Factory tracks on?

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They were gone when SOTT was created.

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Your comment on the format of the book/discs in just bizarre. The discs need to be at the front because the music is more important than the book? It's completely nonsensical.

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Because?

Is this a book with music added or music with some storeis I will not read but lament over the stupid size of the thing?

No, I have to go to the back of the book, find that separate sheet to see tracks and get CD's.

That is convenince.

It is not practical at all.

If you think that's bizarre then so is your reality or at least your view of reality.

These releases keep Prince relevant and connected to his base. The big paydays$$$ are yet to come in the form of movies, broadway, Vegas, etc. They are prolly waiting out the IRS negotiations and the completion of court activity.

udo said:

LoveGalore said:

udo said:

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If you cannot see the logic, then why are you making such statements?

Your logic says that they should put whatever in any boxset to sell the stuff.

That is logic yes, but does not work with any context at all.

And context is important.

What does that have to do with you saying SOTT's expanded set is a book release rather than an album release?

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Do you really need convincing?

Does the book look like a record?

Does the book look like a CD?

Does the book function like a book?

Does the book smell like a book?

Then it must be a book.

You will not see music in the book.

Except when you go until the very end of the book.

Also the volume of book is greater than the volume of music.

So it must be a book.

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There is zero logic to that.

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Dream on.

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It doesn't make any sense and isn't based in reality.

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Dream on.

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Similarly, you think that the estate includes you

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Bullshit and you know it.

When someone is critical about stuff people get personaol when they run out of arguments.

That is a sign of weakness.

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So if the book would have been smaller, less protrusive, then sales in the US and perhaps the rest of the world could have been better.

The price could have been lower, shipping could have been cheaper, storage could have been easier and music could therefor be more enjoyable.

udo said:

udo said:

leecaldon said:

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They were gone when SOTT was created.

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Your comment on the format of the book/discs in just bizarre. The discs need to be at the front because the music is more important than the book? It's completely nonsensical.

.

Because?

Is this a book with music added or music with some storeis I will not read but lament over the stupid size of the thing?

No, I have to go to the back of the book, find that separate sheet to see tracks and get CD's.

That is convenince.

It is not practical at all.

If you think that's bizarre then so is your reality or at least your view of reality.

If you don't know that Wendy & Lisa were hugely important to the creation of music in the SOTT era, then I'm afraid your knowledge of this era of Prince music is sorely lacking.

I suggest you go and listen to the recent podcast series that was released to coincide with this MUSIC release. (You can think of it as book with some music - the rest of us can continue to understand what this set is).

leecaldon said:

udo said:

If you don't know that Wendy & Lisa were hugely important to the creation of music in the SOTT era, then I'm afraid your knowledge of this era of Prince music is sorely lacking.

I suggest you go and listen to the recent podcast series that was released to coincide with this MUSIC release. (You can think of it as book with some music - the rest of us can continue to understand what this set is).

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Did I say they were not important?

Au contraire!

I only described what I recall about Prince's approach to SOTT.

You are changing the subject.

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I do not need a podcast to know that bit of history.

I only stated a few facts bout the original album.

Not about the approach of the SDE thing or what I think is important w.r.t. the history of these songs.

udo said:

leecaldon said:

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Did I say they were not important?

Au contraire!

I only described what I recall about Prince's approach to SOTT.

You are changing the subject.

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I do not need a podcast to know that bit of history.

I only stated a few facts bout the original album.

Not about the approach of the SDE thing or what I think is important w.r.t. the history of these songs.

No, you said "They were gone when SOTT was created." That is not true. They were gone when it was released.

leecaldon said:

udo said:

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Did I say they were not important?

Au contraire!

I only described what I recall about Prince's approach to SOTT.

You are changing the subject.

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I do not need a podcast to know that bit of history.

I only stated a few facts bout the original album.

Not about the approach of the SDE thing or what I think is important w.r.t. the history of these songs.

No, you said "They were gone when SOTT was created." That is not true. They were gone when it was released.

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Sure.

SOTT was being created without W&L because they were still around.

No, SOTT was assembled after W&L left.

Songs were stripped from their contributions.

Or other songs were chosen.

I.e.: there was a specific goal, a purpose when SOTT was assembled.

This shows the line that the 'experts' should not have crossed.

udo said:

lavendardrummachine said:

I think it's pretty well accepted that SOTT has had the best execution of the 3, and fans want to see the same or better going forward.

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The SOTT has similar flaws as the other two sets.

No bad mastering.

Not too much censorship.

But we have the book.

We have the song selection.

We have the version(s) chosen.

We see clear lack of understanding of the concept of SOTT.

We see clear lack of understanding of the concept of music.

I am just glad they didn't hire YOU to do these boxsets. We would hear the same song over and over again! Like a broken record...

homesquid said:

RODSERLING said:

Best selling album in the US in 2020 )(without streaming): #57 Purple Rain (115.000 copies). Total soundscan : 4.040.000 Out of these 115k, an incredible 98k (!) were sold on the vinyl format (#16 best selling album in vinyl this year) . That is to say 85% of the total sales. #161 Sign O The Times (51.000). Total SS : 459.000. Out of ranking : 1999 (33.000) Total SS : 1.049.000. Prince is the #22 best selling artist of the year, with an estimated 270.000 copies sold in 2020 ( against 320.000 copies in 2019). That could be explained by the fact there were two WB releases in 2019 ( against one in 2020) and 3 waves of Sony re releases ( against one in 2019).

#161 Sign O The Times (51.000)? YOU CHEAP BASTARDS. I bought two. I bet some of you spend $150 bucks a month on cigarettes or fast food but whine about a Super Deluxe set of some of the best music ever recorded.

😂 So True.

Ppl complain about buying amazing music and art but will buy dozens of $4 coffees.

homesquid said:

RODSERLING said:

Best selling album in the US in 2020 )(without streaming): #57 Purple Rain (115.000 copies). Total soundscan : 4.040.000 Out of these 115k, an incredible 98k (!) were sold on the vinyl format (#16 best selling album in vinyl this year) . That is to say 85% of the total sales. #161 Sign O The Times (51.000). Total SS : 459.000. Out of ranking : 1999 (33.000) Total SS : 1.049.000. Prince is the #22 best selling artist of the year, with an estimated 270.000 copies sold in 2020 ( against 320.000 copies in 2019). That could be explained by the fact there were two WB releases in 2019 ( against one in 2020) and 3 waves of Sony re releases ( against one in 2019).

#161 Sign O The Times (51.000)? YOU CHEAP BASTARDS. I bought two. I bet some of you spend $150 bucks a month on cigarettes or fast food but whine about a Super Deluxe set of some of the best music ever recorded.

Bear in mind, it's also much cheaper to come here and complain about almost anything while streaming the whole set...

udo said:

leecaldon said:

No, you said "They were gone when SOTT was created." That is not true. They were gone when it was released.

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Sure.

SOTT was being created without W&L because they were still around.

No, SOTT was assembled after W&L left.

Songs were stripped from their contributions.

Or other songs were chosen.

I.e.: there was a specific goal, a purpose when SOTT was assembled.

This shows the line that the 'experts' should not have crossed.

Ok, we're getting somewhere. So you admit that W&L did, in fact to contribute to songs on SOTT, even if those songs changed after their departure.

I'm not sure what kind of Super Deluxe boxset of the era you're after, but I think almost everyone else would agree that hearing early versions of the songs that ended up on the album is key part of that.

And I think everyone else groups in the Dream Factory/Camille/Crystal Ball projects as the basis for almost all of SOTT. So to exclude anything from those on the basis that W&L were involved (and they were thanked in the SOTT liner notes, btw) would be baffling.

Which era would you put those projects in?

I think we can all be glad that you were not involved in putting this great collection together.

leecaldon said:

udo said:

.

Sure.

SOTT was being created without W&L because they were still around.

No, SOTT was assembled after W&L left.

Songs were stripped from their contributions.

Or other songs were chosen.

I.e.: there was a specific goal, a purpose when SOTT was assembled.

This shows the line that the 'experts' should not have crossed.

Ok, we're getting somewhere. So you admit that W&L did, in fact to contribute to songs on SOTT, even if those songs changed after their departure.

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Their contributions (instrument, vocal tracks) were removed.

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I'm not sure what kind of Super Deluxe boxset of the era you're after,

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They would have made a different set if they would have held the SOTT-change in mind.

Maybe not as large as the current SOTT SDE but more respectful for Prince's new phase, more documents of that phase.

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but I think almost everyone else would agree that hearing early versions of the songs that ended up on the album is key part of that.

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They could be on the Parade SDE as it will document this very creative period.

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I think we can all be glad that you were not involved in putting this great collection together.

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If I were involved I would not be alone....

So do not fear.

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[Edited 2/27/21 5:42am]

Sorry, but you're flogging a dead horse down a dead-end alley with this approach.

Yes, by the time Sign O The Times was released, it was a Prince solo record... but few major albums have ever so notoriously (or so famously) evolved from previous projects into their final guise. In this case, Sign O The Times was the final destination product of not one, but two previous works...

It stands to reason that any expansion of the final album is going to explore the progress of that evolution from project to project... by definition, exploring the album means exploring its roots... those roots are with The Revolution.

So the tracks selected by the estate are exactly the ones that should be on the expanded Sign O The Times......

People can always argue over 'this should've been left off', 'this should've been included', of course they can, but no one cares what anyone else thinks should've been on there. They released what they released. It's an expanded album full of fantastic music.

You can try and tear that down and say 'I would have done it better' til you're blue in the face, but it's just whining when all's said and done.

udo said:

leecaldon said:

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They could be on the Parade SDE as it will document this very creative period.

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I think we can all be glad that you were not involved in putting this great collection together.

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If I were involved I would not be alone....

So do not fear.

feeluupp said:

renfield said:

They really need to refresh his certifications. For his singles too...many of them would receive digital gold/platinum certifications, some of which had none at all in the days of physical sales (like 1999, LRC, Raspberry Beret, etc etc etc). You can see some of the sales totals from after his passing here: https://hiphopdx.com/news...once-drake

And that doesn't include any streaming totals, which also count towards certification now too.

Receiving half a dozen or more certifications at once for the catalog would be some nice press for the estate, I would think. It would also bump him up the all-time list of most certified artists, which would also be a good look for the estate going forward.

MJ's estate is always on top of this, BAD was certified 10x platinum in USA. Purple Rain would be on the Top 10 best sellings albums of all time in USA, and if there was a real audit, I wouldn't be surprised if Purple Rain hit the 20 million mark in USA, making it as the Top 7 biggest selling album of all time in USA.

If 1996 the last certification was 13 million in USA, imagine by now, with all the physical, digital sales, vinyl sales, deluxe editions, boost in sales due to his death, etc... It's just absurd they haven't re-certified Purple Rain by now.

Prince(r.i.p.) himself always believed that Purple Rain sales were deliberately underestimated and wanted a audit himself. I agree with him. He was so in tune with "THE TRUTH".

You have exposed your lack of knowledge and/or understanding here.

How would including songs made AFTER Parade was finished make any sense whatsoever? Those songs show the beginning of the evolution of the next project - SOTT. And that's why their place is on this release.

udo said:

leecaldon said:

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They could be on the Parade SDE as it will document this very creative period.

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I think we can all be glad that you were not involved in putting this great collection together.

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If I were involved I would not be alone....

So do not fear.

what i really want is a white vinyl edition of lovesexy.

jfenster said:

The only thing that I haven't been pleased with was the fact that the Purple Rain 30th didn't have the extended version of 17 Days and the release of that Piano and A Microphone.

Loved 1999 Super Deluxe and SOTT SDE was fabulous.

muleFunk said:

udo said:

In a way - we as fans should hope that the sales dwindle - so they just unload the vault for the true funk soldiers! the more the releases make the more they build strategies and marketing bollocks for the next release. I haven't bought one of the straight re-releases because they offer me nothing I haven't got already - but I'm ready to spend cash on stuff I haven't heard! I truly think they should start as second tier of release dedicated to the real fans (online/downloads if it neccessary). Even a monthly release of a few songs would be welcome.

RODSERLING said:

People think the sales numbers are the only thing. Let's face it, his music will be taught and discussed and loved for years thanks to people like us. Do you think Beethovens music sold a lot in the past year? No, but he is a household name and that is what Prince is and will be.

lavendardrummachine said:

SOTT did some shakey numbers then. Yikes. I hope that doesn't influence the next releases.

It went #13 on the Billboard Charts however even as a big deluxe set. Thats really good.