TrivialPursuit said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

has anyone ever made an edit of this album and D&P without the raps?

not including the flow, ofc. as that would be hard to do lol

Yes, I have, as noted. "The Flow" was sorta hard, but I just cut his verse out, and it seems to work. Although you still hear Prince say, "Tony, kick that piece of ...." then nothing. But whatever.

I took him out of 98% of that album and and it's grand, if I say so myself.

So yeah, my edits should be circulating. It's just those songs, not the whole albums.

They are great!

Margot said:

This is not my strength...but something you said had me wondering: Didn't living w/Andre in No. Minnie in his teens (musically informative?) expose him to an environment conducive to rapping?

Of course, No. Minnie was not Compton...

What environment is conducive to rapping?

TrivialPursuit said:

lustmealways said:

Is it possible there are demos of the album WITH MORE Tony m???

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YES YES YES YES !

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RJOrion said:

the problem was, Prince would always put him on songs that DIDNT NEED OR FIT HAVING RAPPING ON IT...Prince wasnt making any hiphop beats or instrumentals conducive to rhyming...that wasnt his strength or forte, being he was never really exposed to that environment during his musically informative years...by the 90s he was playing catchup and he was forcing tony to rhyme over sugary r&b/pop productions...it just didnt fit.

But on 99% of early hip hop records, MCs were rapping over R&B, disco, & funk tracks. Such as the stuff on Sugarhill Records. Or it was over Kraftwerk style electronic dance music like Planet Rock, which beacme known as electrofunk. Scorpio by Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five is another example. There were songs by pop acts like Queen Of The Rapping Scene by Modern Romance & Rapture by Blondie. Wham!'s debut single was Wham! Rap. They also had Young Guns. Many of the early songs were long. Rapper's Delight was 15 minutes & The Adventures of Super Rhymes by Jimmy Spicer was close to it. Even the shorter songs were around 7 minutes. That's why early rap singles were only released on 12" maxi singles.

Even in the late 1980s to early 1990s there was dance rap like Falco, C+C Music Factory, Betty Boo, Gerardo, MC Hammer, Technotronic, Snap!, Marky Mark, 2 Live Crew, L'Trimm, etc. DJ Magic Mike did the Miami Bass sound. Freedom Williams from C+C even sounded similar to Ice-T. Rap didn't have just one sound, just like country music didn't. Rappers like Tone Loc & Young MC got a lot of Top 40 airplay.

OperatingThetan said:

He does and his style and delivery fits the time period perfectly. The criticism is mostly in retrospect

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Pur-lease. He was considered a joke at the time by those of us who had listened to rap.

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and I think predominantly emanates from those who were displeased at Prince incorporating rap into his music

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It was him incorporating shitty rappers. It was one of the first times where I saw him desperately chasing trends, and of course he did it incompetently, because he was so arrogant to think that his version was a better version. Instead of learning from the masters and collaborating with pros, he instead searched for some local "talent" that would follow his directions. Hence Tony M., hence T.C. Ellis, hence Robin Power, etc.

MickyDolenz said:

RJOrion said:

...successful hiphop acts werent recording rhymes over R&B/Pop beats...im not referring to pop songs with a few rhymes in them...im talking about genuine hiphop

Puff Daddy was doing that in the 1990s and was successful.

OperatingThetan said:

FunkJam said:

What IS wrong with it?

I think he sounds just fine on "Willling and Able" and "Live 4 Love".

He does and his style and delivery fits the time period perfectly. The criticism is mostly in retrospect and I think predominantly emanates from those who were displeased at Prince incorporating rap into his music and generally dislike it as a form. I first became a fan when I was 14 in 1991 and there was nothing out-of-place about Tony M at that time, hence the commercial success.

That is exactly my problem with it - and with much of Prince's 90s catalog, in general. It sounds "of its time" - which is not something he concerned himself with prior to that.

MickyDolenz said:

RJOrion said:

did Prince grow up and live in Harlem?.

Eric Clapton & The Rolling Stones did not grow up in Memphis or even the USA, yet they made blues songs. There's country singers & jazz bands in Japan. Frank Sinatra put out a bossa nova album. What does growing up around something has to do with someone doing it or having success with it? Vanilla Ice's 1st album sold 10 million in the US and he's not from NYC. Hollywood made a movie with him in it and he also did the theme song to the Ninja Turtles movie.

MickyDolenz said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Dazza said:

I just made my own edits. Daddy pop, Push and My name is Prince are soooo much better Happy to share. Send me a note

Are those the edits where the whole section is cut out, like the chorus of "The Max" and it just goes verse to verse or whatever?

I sent them my edits, where I used instrumental parts over Tony's parts to just literally erase him from the songs (mostly, depends on the tune).

TrivialPursuit said:

Wolfie87 said:

I think it works on "Love 2 The 9's" speaking part with Mayte, honestly. The song has such a great dynamic when it comes back to Prince's breakdown at the end. One of the shining moments of the 90's.

Isn't that Carmen?

Close. It's Mayte on L2T9s and Carmen on The Continental.

RJOrion said:

Margot said:

This is not my strength...but something you said had me wondering: Didn't living w/Andre in No. Minnie in his teens (musically informative?) expose him to an environment conducive to rapping?

Of course, No. Minnie was not Compton...

hiphop (as we know it), wasnt invented yet while Prince was living with Andre...HipHop is/was an East Coast(NY/NJ/Penn) subculture until the mid to late 80s..by then, Prince was an established artist who first belittled rap as a passing fad

Thanks, appreciate it.

I believe the true issue that many original Prince fans have with Tony M is that fact that he was the vehicle to bring rap to Prince's work.

Up until then, Prince did not yield to trends - he set them. This was the first time that we saw him do what so many other black artists were doing: sticking rap into the music to keep up with the hip hop craze. Even legends like Earth, Wind and Fire were doing this.

I recall being disappointed that Diamond and Pearls marked the first time that I felt Prince was a follower. I didn't hate what Tony M added but I didn't love it. It just seemed unnecessary.

RJOrion said:

Growing up in Minnesota, the man was not exposed to hiphop...then when he was exposed to it, he didnt respect it... then when he tried to catch up, he didnt know how to successfully incorporate it into what he was already doing...im not sure why that easy concept is so hard to follow or understand? or why its even up for debate...Prince and his ex bandmates and co-workers have discussed this ad nauseum in various interviews and podcasts and books

Hip hop did not exist when Prince was growing up.

AMERICA1ST said:

theres no science to this.

lary blackmon didnt 'grow up' with rap either, but he did a better job of working with it on word up for example than prince did.

BartVanHemelen said:

OperatingThetan said:

and I think predominantly emanates from those who were displeased at Prince incorporating rap into his music

.

It was him incorporating shitty rappers. It was one of the first times where I saw him desperately chasing trends, and of course he did it incompetently, because he was so arrogant to think that his version was a better version. Instead of learning from the masters and collaborating with pros, he instead searched for some local "talent" that would follow his directions. Hence Tony M., hence T.C. Ellis, hence Robin Power, etc.

Does this guy like Prince at all? lol Every post is literally negative.

Genesia said:

OperatingThetan said:

FunkJam said: He does and his style and delivery fits the time period perfectly. The criticism is mostly in retrospect and I think predominantly emanates from those who were displeased at Prince incorporating rap into his music and generally dislike it as a form. I first became a fan when I was 14 in 1991 and there was nothing out-of-place about Tony M at that time, hence the commercial success.

That is exactly my problem with it - and with much of Prince's 90s catalog, in general. It sounds "of its time" - which is not something he concerned himself with prior to that.

You really think When Doves cry doesn't sound 80's? lol None of that stuff sounds "new" and that's ok.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

you guys can complain about this GREAT music (and great rapper, mr. M)

i'll be over here kicking the flow, as it were

lustmealways said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

theres no science to this.

lary blackmon didnt 'grow up' with rap either, but he did a better job of working with it on word up for example than prince did.

This isn't really a rap, but the 12" version of She's Strage is. There's others like Johnny Guitar Watson & Millie Jackson who are of an earlier generation from Prince who released rap songs in the early 1980s. Rapping existed long before there was a hip hop genre. You can find songs from the 1920s that have rap cadences, and also in some old movie musicals. Some examples are 1960s songs like The Name Game by Shirley Ellis & Here Comes The Judge by Pigmeat Markham.

LoveGalore said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Isn't that Carmen?

Close. It's Mayte on L2T9s and Carmen on The Continental.

There ya go. I knew they were both somewhere, but couldn't recall it right off.

MickyDolenz said: