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Thread started 01/13/21 9:40am

thebanishedone

Not playing guitar live on When Doves Cry a missed opportunity

Prince wanted to dance and sing when performing live When Doves Cry but he could have play the guitar intro than leave the instrument and pick it up for the solo.

Instead he learned Wendy a very simplified versions of intro and solo and she butchered even that.

Some orgers think Prince did some kind of studio trickery but he didn't he just played fast 16th notes with harmonizer effect.This guy on the upload i share with u plays it like Prince https://easyupload.io/71d...GgwGg9lcJY

so it was possible but he still didn't do it. Imagine him doing it on acoustic during musicology unplugged sections cool

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Reply #1 posted 01/13/21 10:21am

bsprout

WOW! cool video. Cocky of him to say he likes his version better than the one on the record, but very cool video nonetheless.

I would love to have seen Prince play that lick live on this epic song.

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Reply #2 posted 01/13/21 10:37am

thebanishedone

bsprout said:

WOW! cool video. Cocky of him to say he likes his version better than the one on the record, but very cool video nonetheless.

I would love to have seen Prince play that lick live on this epic song.

u know whats funny,when he do intro and for a moment he stops and looks at the camera with "are you ready suckers" and he goes into that 16th note pattern biggrin

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Reply #3 posted 01/13/21 11:02am

JoeyCococo

I have always thought this...that he should have played that opening solo and the one at the end live. It is so damn good...and the closest I have ever heard it performed is Craig Ross who did it with Lenny Kravitz during the 2017 Rock and ROll Hall of Fame. He picked that end solo apart....wow!

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Reply #4 posted 01/13/21 1:58pm

bsprout

thebanishedone said:

bsprout said:

WOW! cool video. Cocky of him to say he likes his version better than the one on the record, but very cool video nonetheless.

I would love to have seen Prince play that lick live on this epic song.

u know whats funny,when he do intro and for a moment he stops and looks at the camera with "are you ready suckers" and he goes into that 16th note pattern biggrin

yeah, hahahahah lol

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Reply #5 posted 01/15/21 1:41am

lavendardrumma
chine

He could have slid the guitar behind his back and still danced. There's really only two spots that needed him on guitar though. It never totally lived up to the records live, and that could be one reason why.

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Reply #6 posted 01/15/21 2:37am

HisRoyalBadnes
s07

I mean, l saw him play it in '97 at the Jam of the Year tour. It was so bad ass l burst into tears. I actually cried through the whole concert because I was in awe and he was so awesome..is that weird? Prince was like a deity in person
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Reply #7 posted 01/15/21 5:11am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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The Parade tour version was always my favorite. But it is a song that live doesn't translate the recording.

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Reply #8 posted 01/15/21 5:24am

thebanishedone

OldFriends4Sale said:

The Parade tour version was always my favorite. But it is a song that live doesn't translate the recording.

How about Nude tour version? i think he got all the dots on that 1

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Reply #9 posted 01/15/21 5:45am

Vannormal

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OldFriends4Sale said:

The Parade tour version was always my favorite. But it is a song that live doesn't translate the recording.

-

Agree.

And I've always felt the same with ''Kiss'', imho.

-

And I don't agree with thebanishedones that Wendy 'butchered' it.

She did the best in her 19/20yo young ability.

-

(Maybe Dez would've pulled it off too.)

-

Off topic;

Mico Weaver is playing guitar again, showing clips on instagram. Nice to hear him.

He looks very good btw. smile

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #10 posted 01/15/21 5:52am

thebanishedone

Vannormal said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

The Parade tour version was always my favorite. But it is a song that live doesn't translate the recording.

-

Agree.

And I've always felt the same with ''Kiss'', imho.

-

And I don't agree with thebanishedones that Wendy 'butchered' it.

She did the best in her 19/20yo young ability.

-

(Maybe Dez would've pulled it off too.)

-

Off topic;

Mico Weaver is playing guitar again, showing clips on instagram. Nice to hear him.

He looks very good btw. smile

-

Compared to Prince it's terrible,and funny thing is God know how many times she rehearsed it,but still not good enough

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Reply #11 posted 01/15/21 6:04am

Vannormal

avatar

thebanishedone said:

Vannormal said:

-

Agree.

And I've always felt the same with ''Kiss'', imho.

-

And I don't agree with thebanishedones that Wendy 'butchered' it.

She did the best in her 19/20yo young ability.

-

(Maybe Dez would've pulled it off too.)

-

Off topic;

Mico Weaver is playing guitar again, showing clips on instagram. Nice to hear him.

He looks very good btw. smile

-

Compared to Prince it's terrible,and funny thing is God know how many times she rehearsed it,but still not good enough

-

YAWN

smile

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #12 posted 01/15/21 6:08am

LoveGalore

Vannormal said:



OldFriends4Sale said:




The Parade tour version was always my favorite. But it is a song that live doesn't translate the recording.



-


Agree.


And I've always felt the same with ''Kiss'', imho.


-


And I don't agree with thebanishedones that Wendy 'butchered' it.


She did the best in her 19/20yo young ability.


-


(Maybe Dez would've pulled it off too.)


-


Off topic;


Mico Weaver is playing guitar again, showing clips on instagram. Nice to hear him.


He looks very good btw. smile


-



I mean, Alan Light mentioned Prince not being pleased with any live renditions of these two songs in particular. So I think people call these two songs out because they're trained to do so.

WDC on the PR tour was still cool, loved the Parade version, and I thought he pulled off Kiss really well ever since the Rave era.

Edit: Alan mentioned this nearly 30 years ago in the liner notes for The Hits.
[Edited 1/15/21 6:09am]
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Reply #13 posted 01/15/21 7:17am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

LoveGalore said:

Vannormal said:

-

Agree.

And I've always felt the same with ''Kiss'', imho.

-

And I don't agree with thebanishedones that Wendy 'butchered' it.

She did the best in her 19/20yo young ability.

-

(Maybe Dez would've pulled it off too.)

-

Off topic;

Mico Weaver is playing guitar again, showing clips on instagram. Nice to hear him.

He looks very good btw. smile

-

I mean, Alan Light mentioned Prince not being pleased with any live renditions of these two songs in particular. So I think people call these two songs out because they're trained to do so. WDC on the PR tour was still cool, loved the Parade version, and I thought he pulled off Kiss really well ever since the Rave era. Edit: Alan mentioned this nearly 30 years ago in the liner notes for The Hits. [Edited 1/15/21 6:09am]

I thought Kiss and Love or $ done at the Minnesota Music Awards in 1986 was wonderful. It felt just like the album with the impromptu feel. And on top of that they did renditions of the extended versions.

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#IDEFINEME
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Reply #14 posted 01/15/21 9:24am

fishwillbite

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I always felt that Prince over-arranged WDC it in a live setting.

.

For a start, the live version always had bass! wink It was usually played too fast, often including live drums, and often had those awful horn lines. Just lost the magic. Perhaps he was worried about playing such a sparse song in an arena setting and just overdid it to keep the momentum of the show. Too bad, I'm sure it would have been possible for him to pull off a great version of it had he been interested.

.

I remember him triggering the original track during the (dreaded) sampler set at London O2 and it sounded incredible.

PIPS! Eurgh...
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Reply #15 posted 01/15/21 9:30am

thebanishedone

fishwillbite said:

I always felt that Prince over-arranged WDC it in a live setting.

.

For a start, the live version always had bass! wink It was usually played too fast, often including live drums, and often had those awful horn lines. Just lost the magic. Perhaps he was worried about playing such a sparse song in an arena setting and just overdid it to keep the momentum of the show. Too bad, I'm sure it would have been possible for him to pull off a great version of it had he been interested.

.

I remember him triggering the original track during the (dreaded) sampler set at London O2 and it sounded incredible.

1990 Nude tour pretty sparse to me smile

[Edited 1/15/21 9:30am]

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Reply #16 posted 01/15/21 9:52am

bsprout

HisRoyalBadness07 said:

I mean, l saw him play it in '97 at the Jam of the Year tour. It was so bad ass l burst into tears. I actually cried through the whole concert because I was in awe and he was so awesome..is that weird? Prince was like a deity in person

hug nah, I'm always moved to tears by music. It's happened to me before at concerts. Not in a crazy fan way. It's just a visceral reaction to powerful music. Then again, I'm a sap so there's that, too.

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Reply #17 posted 01/15/21 9:53am

bsprout

thebanishedone said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

The Parade tour version was always my favorite. But it is a song that live doesn't translate the recording.

How about Nude tour version? i think he got all the dots on that 1

that's my favorite live version (Tokyo '90)

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Reply #18 posted 01/15/21 11:09am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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thebanishedone said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

The Parade tour version was always my favorite. But it is a song that live doesn't translate the recording.

How about Nude tour version? i think he got all the dots on that 1

It was good. I mean, not often has it been. The Nude tour felt like a run through of songs to me. But it was a good run through.

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Reply #19 posted 01/15/21 1:45pm

thebanishedone

OldFriends4Sale said:

thebanishedone said:

How about Nude tour version? i think he got all the dots on that 1

It was good. I mean, not often has it been. The Nude tour felt like a run through of songs to me. But it was a good run through.

u r right but i thionk that with WSC it was not the case. sound was big and his vocals on point. Madrid 90 is even better

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Reply #20 posted 01/16/21 3:52pm

FasterThan67

i had heard before (i 100% doubt that this is true) that Prince never played the intro to WDC live bc he “just came up with it during the session and couldn’t remember it.” i don’t remember where i heard this from but i doubt Prince would forget it.

i think him not playing guitar at all on the track was a way for Wendy to get more spotlight on the PR tour and he just never played the guitar on the track on subsequent tours. it would be hard to have a guitar on your back and crawl during the La, La, La, He, He, Hee interpolation haha

the 1984 birthday show version of When Doves Cry is by far my favorite, even over the album cut. there’s just something about that whole show...
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Reply #21 posted 01/19/21 4:54pm

SquirrelMeat

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To me, the songs that had a unique sound in the studio never translated as well live.

Doves, Kiss, Thieves, Black Sweat etc. The empty spaces and sparseness never worked as well as say, Girls and Boys or 1999. Those were made for the stage.

I often wonder if Prince felt the same about Doves, as it's the least represented 'Classic' in the main sets. The later keyboard medley just gave him a change to remind the audience that its one of his and that the drum track was everything.

.
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Reply #22 posted 01/20/21 3:24am

love2thenines2
003

Anyway....the full song version with Prince on guitar has never been played by him LIve....so this is a dream that never see the light of day....my only wish is > discovering the full Studio 1st take version with additionnal production (guitars....keyboards etc...) one day .....on a leak or on the SPD version of Purple Rain if 1 day this release is out ??

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Reply #23 posted 01/20/21 11:58pm

lavendardrumma
chine

SquirrelMeat said:

To me, the songs that had a unique sound in the studio never translated as well live.

Doves, Kiss, Thieves, Black Sweat etc. The empty spaces and sparseness never worked as well as say, Girls and Boys or 1999. Those were made for the stage.


Kiss and Black Sweat were the wrong tempo for starters. Or I should say, a different tempo.

The guitair part always sounded sampled and I think they tried to do it with keys and some reverb effect for some tours? I don't know what was going on but it was usually off.

Black Sweat he wasn't using the same synths. It sounded good on piano though.

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Reply #24 posted 01/21/21 4:16am

thebanishedone

lavendardrummachine said:



SquirrelMeat said:


To me, the songs that had a unique sound in the studio never translated as well live.

Doves, Kiss, Thieves, Black Sweat etc. The empty spaces and sparseness never worked as well as say, Girls and Boys or 1999. Those were made for the stage.




Kiss and Black Sweat were the wrong tempo for starters. Or I should say, a different tempo.

The guitair part always sounded sampled and I think they tried to do it with keys and some reverb effect for some tours? I don't know what was going on but it was usually off.

Black Sweat he wasn't using the same synths. It sounded good on piano though.


Black Sweat synth is moog voyager smile
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Reply #25 posted 01/21/21 11:35am

lavendardrumma
chine

thebanishedone said: synths. It sounded good on piano though.

Black Sweat synth is moog voyager smile


No wonder. He could have traveled with that too.

Is the secondary synth line also Moog?

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Reply #26 posted 01/21/21 11:43am

thebanishedone

lavendardrummachine said:



thebanishedone said: synths. It sounded good on piano though.


Black Sweat synth is moog voyager smile


No wonder. He could have traveled with that too.

Is the secondary synth line also Moog?


Yes all is moog voyager.Lolita as well.And he did travel with it.if you look at Morris Hayes keyboard setup u can easy spot moog voyager
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