How many of you remember back in the mid-to-late 1980's when the "older" folks in their late 20s and early 30s used to say things like this:

"I loved Prince's old stuff, you know, For You, Prince, Dirty Mind, etc. but after 1999 he got weird. Purple Rain was cool, but I that psychedelic-rock-freaky stuff is too weird for me. I hope he comes back around."

Those of us who were "Purple Rain" neophytes would say something like:

"Prince is a genus, he's going off in new directions and he's better than ever."

It seems like those "new" listeners are now the "old" listeners. I know. I am an "old" Prince listener. A lot of his stuff since the late 80's has been good, and he's put on some great performances since then, but nothing he's done since will compare to the "old" stuff. Now he's gone in a new direction that I don't intend to follow.

I never thought I'd be an "old" Prince fan, but here I am.

you're not supposed to compare his old stuff to the new stuff.
It's just something different. not better or worse, just something else.

MissCute said:

folks'll do that, regardless.

MissCute said:

I have to disagree with the not worse comment. Prince still writes an occasional great song, but truth-be-told he cannot compete with himself of yesterday.

namepeace said:

from a few ago

opening nights of a new era in 1984

This is an excerpt from the opening night of the PR tour back in 1984 by Greg Tate in Record Magazine--"And he was baaad" is the title.



Another problem I had with Princes act now, matter of fact, is that he's really the only one who throws down visually in terms of that tepschore. Guitarist Wendy Melvoin and bassist Brownmark look cool and doo-hickey on the frontline, but the Prince band with Dez Dickerson and Andre Cymone was too chill. Yet if the loss of Dez and Cymone cost Prince's show a measurable degree of fire and stage presence, losing his black ausience of old to the MTV generation may end up costing him something more precious as far asemotional and spiritual gratification goes. I really didnt pick up on this vibe until the final encore of Purple Rain, truly rhe evenings transcendent moment all three nights. Principally because it's there Prince kicks into a torrid and explosive intense 10 minute guitar solo ablaze with Hendrixian fury ( albeit if not ablaze with Hendrixian imagination). The spiritual pull Prince exerts stretching out this anthem is both riveting and chilling, becasue for perhaps the first time in the show you feel as plugged in to whatever energy he's been drawing on as he himself does. The upshot is that on the third night he got so into it his face and body was so visibly wracked with pain, suffering, tears, and dare I say it, a need to be loved. And however he came to sense it, he seemed to know that his audience that night was not feeding back to him what he was pouring forth in incendiary ergs. And during the end of the solo he began screaming and cursing at the crowd, the rage clearly evident on his face. I suddenly thought of Hendrix back when he was playing his heart out to stadiums full of drugged-out zombies who could no more reciprocate his energy than catatonics:only this crew wasn't spiritually void by way of substance abuse (I may have smelled but one or two joints each evening) but by way of music videos. Concerts simply arent the Events of Ones Young Life as they were when I was coming up. The rock audience of today is so saturated by music, its heroes so accessible by way of television, film, and home video that much of the magic of live events seem to have been considerably diminished. Walking out of the show with Princes audience I felt none of the excitement or electricity in the air that I know would've been there when me and my friends were 16, 17-, 18 years old: that night I felt like was with people who were heading home after watching a giant video screen light up then fade to black. And I got to wondering what would happen to Prince when, like Hendrix, he got tired of being the circus freak and just wanted to recieve as much respect for his musicianship as for his visual razzle-dazzle and highly sexual showmanship"

ok, ok...so you're saying i'm an old listener that still old or I'm a new trying to be old but listening to music...did I get it right...

rdhull said:

Excellent use of an old review, RD!

This writer comes across as just another sad sack who can't figure out why artists can't make him feel like he did when he was young. Except for the higher quality writing, this is pretty much the same thing I've been reading here and elsewhere on the Internet since 1993.

Why isn't it like it was back in my day? The simple answer is that you were confusing the happiness of your youth with the quality of music you were listening to at the time. And now you're doing the same thing with your less-happy adulthood.

But to add another level I think a big part of it comes down to the answer people give when asked why they got into Prince in the first place.

If their answer reveals that they related with him more in a stylistic, attitudinal, or ideological sense, then they're probably not feeling Prince at all or as much now.

If their answer reveals that they related with him almost exclusively on a musical level, then they probably are feeling Prince a good deal right now.

Just look at the threads created every day with people spewing their insecurities back at us about Prince's opinions and beliefs and cries for the "old Prince." These people are just expressing the level in which they related to Prince of the past, and very little of it has anything to do with the music, except for the cries for Prince to start making music that fits their narrow tastes: “Prince, I want funk! Prince, I want rock! Prince, start having opinions that I agree with again! Prince, you need to make me happy again like back in the day!”


[This message was edited Fri Apr 25 16:07:16 PDT 2003 by Brendan]

I knew it! Iknew it!!! I knew after I turn 30 peeps iz gonna say something about getting old...

I only posted that old review to show that even then folks were not comfy with the change he made even then..and Im sure folks were pissed when he came out with Dirty Mind after the perfect pop RnB of the prince album.

Also from that same essay/review he talks more about the change and it the effect it had on some of his fans albeit deragatory in its expression:

.." and maybe cost hims some of his black audience. It's a mystery to me just what the real deal is far as this racial imbroglio goes, but I do know that before he came back for his encore that first night, bloods were screaming at the top of thier lungs for Prince-like funk like Erotic City, Lady Cab Driver, and Irresistable Bitch. One brother in fact wanted to hear the latter so bad he got to hurling obscenities at prince-as in "Play 'Irresistable bitch' you bitch, you faggot mutha!"

hmm...i guess I'm a old fan...

Time to take Brendan to school. Good Lord, I'm glad this herb set it off.

Brendan said:

First of all, you don't know me. So ease up on the "sad sack" comment, big boy. While I appreciate your backhanded comment, let me let you in on a little secret. I've been moved by several different artists over the years. From Monk to Mos Def, from Steely Dan to Horace Silver, from Beck to Badu, from Jamiroquai to Jazzanova, from Coltrane to Lauryn Hill. Music didn't end with Lovesexy or begin with For You, Brendan. If you knew me like you think you know me, Brendan, you never would have written that tripe.





Ya think so, Dr. Freud? You just open your mouth just to swap feet. I'm a successful professional, I make a good living, I'm well respected in my community, and I have a loving family and friends from all over. I love God. Not all eyes will weep for me.



Wow, when you're not trying to deconstruct the psyches of people you don't know, you can make a decent point.



Hey. Genius. The import of the thread was that as you age, your perspective changes and you wind up taking positions you never thought you'd take. I never thought I'd ever see the day where Prince went too far out there, even for me. But it seems to have arrived. Do I miss the old Prince? Yup. But life goes on. Let's discover new artists. Big deal.



Wow, you're a pretentious idiot. For someone making so many misguided presumptions about who I am and my perspectives to imply that I am narrow minded is funny. Prince has made so much great music already that I'd never cry for more. Anything else is just gravy on the grits. And I've got enough on my plate as it is, Junior.

What are you, the NPGMC police?

Quoth Danny Glover in "Silverado": "Mister, you've got a lot to learn about people."

Oh shit...(grabs popcorn and a cell phone)

I think it's cool that the younger genration dig Prince. Most of them got into Prince during the late 80's & 90's. The older of course the early 80's. I am part of the older generation. I am still into his music...but i will say it is not like it use to be. He still has that great vibe going & all. His music has changed sooo much. You can't really say you are a true Prince fan unless you were there from the start.

so, like...am i new or old?

Like Robert DeNiro said, “You talking to me?”.

Sorry to disappoint, but I don’t play like that, so there will be no show here today. RD, put down the pop corn. There’s absolutely nothing to see here.

I was talking about the writer’s perspective and general observations I’ve made here and elsewhere, not making a specific comment towards you or anyone else.

I apologize if I came on too strong and you felt I was calling you names. I wasn’t and I don’t. I really mean that. I’ve got nothing against you in the least, as I don’t even know you, nor was I even addressing you.

I write with a lot of fire, so I expect as much back. I was just hoping for more of the fire and less of the personal component. Since you don’t in fact know me either and I’m almost certain you were directly addressing me.

Oh yeah, anyone want to debate the issue at hand?

MissCute said:

You're kidding me right? When Doves Cry vs. The Wedding Feast?

pejman said:

Hey I'm not even 30 yet and I am being called old

so shush!!

I hear you I'm still puzzled by folks who came in @ the Gold Experience & are floored by it as a whole Maybe it has to do w/ when you get onboard, or when you're @ the age when you enjoy it most. Something...

Old school is the only school babee. You newbies make me sick. heee

Well, I think Brendan and I have worked out the differences, and I apologize for going off. I had just had enough of getting ripped for expressing a simple opinion.

There is no "right" or "wrong" opinion on Prince music, or for that matter, most music. I was just thinking about how our perspectives change.

i'm just a prince fan, period. I like and dislike material from all of his eras. Loving Prince's work does not mean you have to love all of the work. I wonder if some will ever understand that concept?

namepeace said:

Someone hadn’t attacked me that hard with “peace” as a moniker since I walked by a group of war protestors.

But we're cool as far as I'm concerned.

Namepeace, I think if you and I got to talking outside the crazy confines of the Internet you’d find that we have a lot in common, especially your expansive musical tastes of which I share.

I don’t flame people for their opinions. The reason I hang out here from time to time is that there is a difference in opinion that both challenges and educates me. I try to challenge people right back.

Let me speak directly to the topic and clarify my position.

You can be a cool, rational, intelligent, loving human being and dislike every Prince era.

You can be a cool, rational, intelligent, loving human being and love only some Prince eras.

You can be a cool, rational, intelligent, loving human being and love portions of every Prince era.

You can be a cool, rational, intelligent, loving human being whose evolved into a position where you no longer relate or “feel” Prince.

You can be a cool, rational, intelligent, loving human being whose evolved into a position where you can truly accept differing opinions without becoming enraged or feeling preached at.

You can be a cool, rational, intelligent, loving human being that has primarily related with Prince on a music and/or artistic level.

You can be a cool, rational, intelligent, loving human being that has primarily related with Prince on a stylistic and/or ideological level.

The people in the above general categories tend to have one thing in common; that is, they rarely become defensive about their particular position. Unfortunately plenty of what I read here is just brimming with insecurity and selfishness, and that’s what I was speaking to.

My music collection is filled with artists expressing opinions, viewpoints and behaviors that I don’t agree with or fully accept. But my music collection is about the music and about the artistry and about hearing and learning from other people’s unique perspectives on the world, not about finding those people whom most strongly align with my particular sensibilities. Besides, my views are in a constant state of flux, so I’d be swapping music at the used CD store constantly.

In my opinion people who start a sentence with “back in my day” have to one degree or another already slowed down their evolution and admitted that they are no longer completely open to being as thrilled as they once were about the topic that follows. That statement has nothing to do with Prince and can be applied to any interest.

And as you say, people change and grow in a myriad of directions and speeds and in many people old passions are replaced with new ones, like with children or family, or with different types of art or artists. That’s all very cool, but no one should expect a free pass when they step up to the plate in a public forum with little more than emotion to support their viewpoint.

And no, I’m not talking about anyone in particular with that last sentence. I am aiming that thought at everyone, including and most importantly myself.

Brendan said:

Well said. Eloquently stated. I'd like to publicly retract my rebuke and I regret the harsh reswponse. Sorry!

Actually, when you look at it, we "old" Prince fans can laugh at ourselves now. We thought we were so cool backinaday because we "got" what he was talking about and we could dig his vibe with each successive turn. Now, many of us don't understand where he's coming from.

As Res says, "Time goes by and people grow," I guess.

Good thing there's plenty of "old" and "new" music to discover outside the Prince Universe.

Happy listening!

"One thing about music ... when it hit ya, ya feel no pain."

Are there any other Prince fans out there with grey pubes?

namepeace said:

I appreciate your classy response. And thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify my position.

There really is so much great music out there that you wouldn't have time to listen to it all if you lived 5 lifetimes.

So what kind of Prince fan am I? As if anyone cares, right?

I'm the type of person (even was when I was really young) who chooses the art and artists that I consume based almost exclusively on the quality of the material. I’m attracted specifically to the combination of enormous talent and hard work. Add into the mix a prolific output and I’m probably sold to one degree or another for life.

I’m in a constant search for the greatest art and artists. To accomplish this you have to leave the ego and the biases at the door, as well as the natural human desire to only embrace that which you directly relate with. Of course there’s going to be plenty of times when you do relate anyway. With Prince I’ve related primarily with his healthy view of sexuality, his independent spirit and his shyness as a kid. But I didn’t come to the table for those reasons, but rather found those similarities with myself after being drawn in by the music and the talent.

I’m far too young to have followed the careers of Duke Ellington or Miles Davis, and just a bit too young to have followed much of Bob Dylan's career. To me Prince is the only person from my generation that brings to the table this type of awesome game, someone that will be writing music until the day he takes his final breath. I wouldn’t even be surprised if that last breath occurs while composing or recording. He works that hard and is that into his music.

It’s fascinating following all the twists and turns of an artist of this caliber. What will the next project sound like? What will be its inspiration? Will it be something I’ll be playing for the rest of my life (“TRC”) or something that I will only pick up occasionally to dust (“Rave”).

In short, I’m just a no-name reporter here to observe it all, riding out the times that hold little interest to me and getting knee deep during the periods that do.