Vannormal said:

SexyMuthaF said:

I'm not shocked he was a one of a kind talent with a work ethic unmatched and unlike others he kept his nose clean no criminal charges lawsuits nothing

-

THAT is SO true !

(except for that one bad trip that gave us the wondrous The Black Album.)

But he was just a normal guy too.

Who got lost in religion, choices, trust and doubts, by all means very human.

And that's what I like/love about him the most.

-

beautifully put.

Vannormal said:

Too normal actually. He wasn't talking with pun intended or really that interesting. Jay Leno 2004 come to mind. Except the first interaction with Mel Gibson (which was hilarious by the way), he mostly just talked about his inspirations and why his show is great for the entire family.

The same with the Charlie Murphy segment i Chappelle Show. When the radio host asked him "I'm not that good. He is just that bad" . Like a normal, humble person.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

SantanaMaitreya said:

We're uber critical because we're uber fans. We listen every little bit of music that we can get our hands on and with Prince being so productive, there's bound to be disappointments. Most people who like Prince just enjoy the albums without worrying too much about him being a JW or how he treated Morris or Sheila or whoever. The music lives on, just like with James Brown and Marvin Gaye and so many others who weren't always nice men.

uber fans opinions are rarely relevant & often highly pretentious. That said some of the fan alaysis on social media is exceptional.

I prefer the opinions of his peers acoss the industry who truly understand what it is to have a long, sustained career, appreciate the physical pain of gigging, the art of song writing / playing etc. I think most stars look at fan comments with a raised eyebrow!

Back to the point - I love the fact that P isn't forgotten - his cultural imapact was & remains huge.

Same goes for journalists, but that's not even the point anymore.

Journalism nowadays mainly consists in copy-pasting press releases.
When you read articles praising Prince, it's probably because they have something to sell by the Estate. People get paid to say nice things. Most of the time, they just scratch the surface and are way too happy to coin the "genius" term, so they can skip listening or researching. Most of the articles around contain lots of abberations, wrong facts and simplifications.

Aside from that, your thread is a bit like "I'm happy the sun still shines".
Of course an artist as relevant as Prince isn't going anywhere soon. Skipper's name is engraved in a high place of the pantheon of popular music. He was the Swan Song of Rock'n'Roll. The last soldier taking risks, before pop definitely turned into a mass market commodity.

But don't fool yourself. In this ultra-liberal Divide and Conquer world, we all suffer from confirmation biases and isolation bubbles. It's very hard, if not pointless, to extract a global point of view on anything or anyone anymore.

And do respect "the cesspit". Since you think it's still worth of your kinda useless thread, what does it make you, a black fly?

[Edited 1/3/21 10:47am]

Wolfie87 said:

Vannormal said:

-

THAT is SO true !

(except for that one bad trip that gave us the wondrous The Black Album.)

But he was just a normal guy too.

Who got lost in religion, choices, trust and doubts, by all means very human.

And that's what I like/love about him the most.

-

Too normal actually. He wasn't talking with pun intended or really that interesting. Jay Leno 2004 come to mind. Except the first interaction with Mel Gibson (which was hilarious by the way), he mostly just talked about his inspirations and why his show is great for the entire family. The same with the Charlie Murphy segment i Chappelle Show. When the radio host asked him "I'm not that good. He is just that bad" . Like a normal, humble person.

To think Prince was normal is being self-delusional in the Major League.
He's always been championing the mavericks, the lunatics, the weirdos, and he was at his most interesting when he assumed the role.

It was great to see him acting normal during Musicology, and reap the sows he had planted, and while I find him very elegant and smart during that period, he's not at his most exciting.

Every star knows how to be easy-going in talk shows. That's what talk shows are for. And he had a great sense of humour, sure.

But we're still talking about someone who worked so much he couldn't be anything but in the periphery of what we call a "normal" life.

Normal people have normal relationship at some point. It's fair to assume he never truly did. Calling your friends at four in the morning isn't normal. The way he treated close friends and partners is anything but normal. A whole decade of his career was spent in a paranoid egocentric whirlpool.

We're talking about someone who had to wear make-up and stage clothes morning, noon and night or his ego would crumble.
Someone who bought shoe pairs in the thousands.
The same model, for crying out loud! for years!

I'll always be grateful that he came full circle, but don't sell this false idea that he was a normal guy. Even when he was coming at peace with himself and was more ready to be in the world in a simpler way, you can't live and breathe music day and night, and stay "normal".

Art doesn't work that way. And an Artist he was.

bonatoc said:

Great post! And you're actually right. But that one small frame at Leno, he was as close as normal as HE could be then.

MoodyBlumes said:

Vannormal said:

-

True, that.

And, don't forget that he too became a musicians musician when he was still amongst us.

Now even more so. That helped a lot - the undeniable respect awarded.

This kind of recognition is the best advertising ever to be honest for any artist.

And he has lived well on that. And yes it somehow still does.

But unfortunately it was never resulted in convincing sales, no matter what people might think.

Which also is known to many.

And that is perfectly OK.

I believe he is better known as a niche artist, mainly driven by his numerous talents and skills, as well as his boldness.

Usually commemorated by the masses for those handful of hits they can name,

not to mention his exceptional appearance and unconventional public behavior.

-

The greatest selling jazz album of all time is Miles Davis' Kind of Blue, today having sold about 4 million copies -- not sure most consider Miles and the whole jazz genre niche, never mind classical. Howard Bloom ran the most successful PR firm in the music industry, speaking here on Prince's 2nd album: What Made Prince Prince? - YouTube

.

So not sure your point... indeed, Prince wasn't The Spice Girls, and was never trying to be putting out albums like Dirty Mind. However, he did sell over 100 million albums.

Jazz is a niche, and so is classical music.

4 million albums divided by eight billions individuals gives you 0,0005% of the population
(I'm trying to speak your language, since you seem to love numbers so much).
Multiply this by three or four to get the people who have heard "Kind Of Blue"
at friends’ homes or the radio, and you get how much people on heart
are even aware of this "universal" masterpiece.

Now, did you stop and think to whom SKipper sold those records to?
Is there any chance that a fan owns a dozen albums? And Prince is divisive this way.
You're either a fan, or you aren't. So you can reduce your 100 million unique buyers to 10,
less if you strip out the sales to casual buyers (Purple Rain, Batman, Diamonds and Pearls).

10 million Prince fans gives you 0,00125% of earthlings. Up yours, Miles!

My points is, try to see beyond the mirage of possessions and statistics,
which will always say what we want them to.
Just feel lucky and proud to be one of the happy few in the known,
instead of reducing Prince to materialistic achievements.

There is no point in preaching in the desert.
His records are out there now.
Some lucky people will click to it, find his work speaks to them,
and go down one of the best rabbit holes there is.
But not everyone will go past the incredible outfits,
the bravado, these madman eyes.

Again, Musicology was great to witness only because we knew the terrible years that preceded.
Again, it was well-deserved, and about time the industry paid a tribute.
It was great to see him, his band and the crowds having such a good time.
But where's the urgency, the hunger in Prince Da Bourgeois?
Rock aristocracy is a Godsend to the forty-something,
but a doom to the inner child.

Prince was an anomaly. He's a weirdo who made it big.
More praise to him, fuck the mainstream.
’Til the end of all times.

[Edited 1/3/21 12:53pm]

bonatoc said:

One of the best rabbitholes? Dude, THE best rabbithole. The last 20 minutes I just discovered The Boom by Poet99 & Prince.

Sure, not the best song out there. But this happened in a split minute just now. That speak volumes.

i am so glad that folks who have worked with him, tell cool stories about him. That's how someone lives on. Through memories.

Here is a yutube video of his tour photographer from the Welcome to America tour talking about behind the scenes with him.

https://youtu.be/_FD9V0Ek-m0

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

SantanaMaitreya said:

We're uber critical because we're uber fans. We listen every little bit of music that we can get our hands on and with Prince being so productive, there's bound to be disappointments. Most people who like Prince just enjoy the albums without worrying too much about him being a JW or how he treated Morris or Sheila or whoever. The music lives on, just like with James Brown and Marvin Gaye and so many others who weren't always nice men.

uber fans opinions are rarely relevant

.

Rarely relevant to the general public.

That says plenty.

Even here some fans that know their stuff are too critical for the rest of orgers.

bonatoc said:

MoodyBlumes said:

The greatest selling jazz album of all time is Miles Davis' Kind of Blue, today having sold about 4 million copies -- not sure most consider Miles and the whole jazz genre niche, never mind classical. Howard Bloom ran the most successful PR firm in the music industry, speaking here on Prince's 2nd album: What Made Prince Prince? - YouTube

.

So not sure your point... indeed, Prince wasn't The Spice Girls, and was never trying to be putting out albums like Dirty Mind. However, he did sell over 100 million albums.

Jazz is a niche, and so is classical music.

4 million albums divided by eight billions individuals gives you 0,0005% of the population
(I'm trying to speak your language, since you seem to love numbers so much).
Multiply this by three or four to get the people who have heard "Kind Of Blue"
at friends’ homes or the radio, and you get how much people on heart
are even aware of this "universal" masterpiece.

Now, did you stop and think to whom SKipper sold those records to?
Is there any chance that a fan owns a dozen albums? And Prince is divisive this way.
You're either a fan, or you aren't. So you can reduce your 100 million unique buyers to 10,
less if you strip out the sales to casual buyers (Purple Rain, Batman, Diamonds and Pearls).

10 million Prince fans gives you 0,00125% of earthlings. Up yours, Miles!

My points is, try to see beyond the mirage of possessions and statistics,
which will always say what we want them to.
Just feel lucky and proud to be one of the happy few in the known,
instead of reducing Prince to materialistic achievements.

There is no point in preaching in the desert.
His records are out there now.
Some lucky people will click to it, find his work speaks to them,
and go down one of the best rabbit holes there is.
But not everyone will go past the incredible outfits,
the bravado, these madman eyes.

Again, Musicology was great to witness only because we knew the terrible years that preceded.
Again, it was well-deserved, and about time the industry paid a tribute.
It was great to see him, his band and the crowds having such a good time.
But where's the urgency, the hunger in Prince Da Bourgeois?
Rock aristocracy is a Godsend to the forty-something,
but a doom to the inner child.

Prince was an anomaly. He's a weirdo who made it big.
More praise to him, fuck the mainstream.
’Til the end of all times.

[Edited 1/3/21 12:53pm]

-

Prince was 'normal' in his wrongness. Therefor he was utterly human.

He was a genius in his '(royal) badness'. Therefor he was wonderfully weird.

When he tried to do 'normal' (Musicology era) it wans't 'normal', it was super weird.

Why? He had to act, had his doubts; like, what was 'being cool' about? As if he forgot.

-

You now, Prince was the most normal when he took a dump, lost his mind, fell from his heels,

lost his words, needed lyric sheets on stage, forgot his make-up, or did just too much, told weird shit,

sang about it too, fooled around, fooled all his girlfriends at the same time, filmed GB,

was attacked by a fan on stage, tore down that pole at a James Brown concert,

lost it while trying to improvise infront of MJ & James too, wearing that owefull bathingsuit in 1992-93,

and when he was about to drop the whole the jw shit bit by bit, lived in his recording complex,

and finaly died in his own elevator with one sock, alone.

(We all die alone.)

-

And I do mean all this with the utmost respect for him.

...this all only for those who understand it.

-

Vannormal said:

bonatoc said:

Jazz is a niche, and so is classical music.

4 million albums divided by eight billions individuals gives you 0,0005% of the population
(I'm trying to speak your language, since you seem to love numbers so much).
Multiply this by three or four to get the people who have heard "Kind Of Blue"
at friends’ homes or the radio, and you get how much people on heart
are even aware of this "universal" masterpiece.

Now, did you stop and think to whom SKipper sold those records to?
Is there any chance that a fan owns a dozen albums? And Prince is divisive this way.
You're either a fan, or you aren't. So you can reduce your 100 million unique buyers to 10,
less if you strip out the sales to casual buyers (Purple Rain, Batman, Diamonds and Pearls).

10 million Prince fans gives you 0,00125% of earthlings. Up yours, Miles!

My points is, try to see beyond the mirage of possessions and statistics,
which will always say what we want them to.
Just feel lucky and proud to be one of the happy few in the known,
instead of reducing Prince to materialistic achievements.

There is no point in preaching in the desert.
His records are out there now.
Some lucky people will click to it, find his work speaks to them,
and go down one of the best rabbit holes there is.
But not everyone will go past the incredible outfits,
the bravado, these madman eyes.

Again, Musicology was great to witness only because we knew the terrible years that preceded.
Again, it was well-deserved, and about time the industry paid a tribute.
It was great to see him, his band and the crowds having such a good time.
But where's the urgency, the hunger in Prince Da Bourgeois?
Rock aristocracy is a Godsend to the forty-something,
but a doom to the inner child.

Prince was an anomaly. He's a weirdo who made it big.
More praise to him, fuck the mainstream.
’Til the end of all times.

[Edited 1/3/21 12:53pm]

-

Prince was 'normal' in his wrongness. Therefor he was utterly human.

He was a genius in his '(royal) badness'. Therefor he was wonderfully weird.

When he tried to do 'normal' (Musicology era) it wans't 'normal', it was super weird.

Why? He had to act, had his doubts; like, what was 'being cool' about? As if he forgot.

-

You now, Prince was the most normal when he took a dump, lost his mind, fell from his heels,

lost his words, needed lyric sheets on stage, forgot his make-up, or did just too much, told weird shit,

sang about it too, fooled around, fooled all his girlfriends at the same time, filmed GB,

was attacked by a fan on stage, tore down that pole at a James Brown concert,

lost it while trying to improvise infront of MJ & James too, wearing that owefull bathingsuit in 1992-93,

and when he was about to drop the whole the jw shit bit by bit, lived in his recording complex,

and finaly died in his own elevator with one sock, alone.

(We all die alone.)

-

And I do mean all this with the utmost respect for him.

...this all only for those who understand it.

-

I don't want to drift away from the subject, but I'll express my opinion on this.

It's highly debatable. People who have built ties to people whom they love
and love them in return don't die alone.
Their loved ones accompany them.

The suffering some have gone through during the present conditions
are testament to this. Not being able to hold the hand of a dying loved one
into yours is a trauma that marks you for life.

By extent, the pain, the betrayal we felt by Prince's unfair way to leave,
the impossibility to say goodbye in a proper way to a human being
who has changed your life is a terrible injustice, a cosmic insult to love.


This shitty conception that "we die alone", this miserable quote that became so appealing
because it's much easier to fall into auto-commiseration than look
at humanity and accept it in all his complexity, is fundamentally wrong.
If this were the case, we wouldn't be in lockdown.
We would let the old and the poor die like animals,
and not sacrificing days that will never be given back to us.
Yet we do, whether you like it or not, whether some flawed egoes
prefer to see themselves as victims, which is immoral and sociopathic.

There is no more unifying experience than death.
We all have to go through it, it is something that is shared by all human beings,
therefore it's the last thing you should feel alone about.


The experience of life, the suffering and the pains we go through,
well that's something else. This is where solitude can be most felt.

Joy, whatever you feel like putting under its umbrella,
is the great redeemer of the connection of human beings.
Us writing in this "cesspool" (Djeez almighty, shut up, get a life already, damn!)
couldn't be a better proof. We're gathered here to celebrate and transmit
the love (call it "high esteem" if you're subject to these scientific-obsessed times)
we felt and keep on feeling because a man blessed with talents
honored them the best he could.
To the end of his time.

And also because we still stomp our feet,
clap our hands, make a funk face, which confirms that
with love, there is no death.

[Edited 1/6/21 4:41am]

bonatoc said:

Vannormal said:

-

Prince was 'normal' in his wrongness. Therefor he was utterly human.

He was a genius in his '(royal) badness'. Therefor he was wonderfully weird.

When he tried to do 'normal' (Musicology era) it wans't 'normal', it was super weird.

Why? He had to act, had his doubts; like, what was 'being cool' about? As if he forgot.

-

You now, Prince was the most normal when he took a dump, lost his mind, fell from his heels,

lost his words, needed lyric sheets on stage, forgot his make-up, or did just too much, told weird shit,

sang about it too, fooled around, fooled all his girlfriends at the same time, filmed GB,

was attacked by a fan on stage, tore down that pole at a James Brown concert,

lost it while trying to improvise infront of MJ & James too, wearing that owefull bathingsuit in 1992-93,

and when he was about to drop the whole the jw shit bit by bit, lived in his recording complex,

and finaly died in his own elevator with one sock, alone.

(We all die alone.)

-

And I do mean all this with the utmost respect for him.

...this all only for those who understand it.

-

I don't want to drift away from the subject, but I'll express my opinion on this.

It's highly debatable. People who have built ties to people whom they love
and love them in return don't die alone.
Their loved ones accompany them.

The suffering some have gone through during the present conditions
are testament to this. Not being able to hold the hand of a dying loved one
into yours is a trauma that marks you for life.

By extent, the pain, the betrayal we felt by Prince's unfair way to leave,
the impossibility to say goodbye in a proper way to a human being
who has changed your life is a terrible injustice, a cosmic insult to love.


This shitty conception that "we die alone", this miserable quote that became so appealing
because it's much easier to fall into auto-commiseration than look
at humanity and accept it in all his complexity, is fundamentally wrong.
If this were the case, we wouldn't be in lockdown.
We would let the old and the poor die like animals,
and not sacrificing days that will never be given back to us.
Yet we do, whether you like it or not, whether some flawed egoes
prefer to see themselves as victims, which is immoral and sociopathic.

There is no more unifying experience than death.
We all have to go through it, it is something that is shared by all human beings,
therefore it's the last thing you should feel alone about.


The experience of life, the suffering and the pains we go through,
well that's something else. This is where solitude can be most felt.

Joy, whatever you feel like putting under its umbrella,
is the great redeemer of the connection of human beings.
Us writing in this "cesspool" (Djeez almighty, shut up, get a life already, damn!)
couldn't be a better proof. We're gathered here to celebrate and transmit
the love (call it "high esteem" if you're subject to these scientific-obsessed times)
we felt and keep on feeling because a man blessed with talents
honored them the best he could.
To the end of his time.

And also because we still stomp our feet,
clap our hands, make a funk face, which confirms that
with love, there is no death.

[Edited 1/6/21 4:41am]

I like your statement that our loved ones accompany us in death.

Margot said:

bonatoc said:

I don't want to drift away from the subject, but I'll express my opinion on this.
(......)

This shitty conception that "we die alone",

this miserable quote that became so appealing
because it's much easier to fall into auto-commiseration than look
at humanity and accept it in all his complexity,

is fundamentally wrong.

(.....)

I like your statement that our loved ones accompany us in death.

-

I like that too.

And that shitty conception is indeed shitty.

Though it is my fundamental conception.

For me science above everything.

-

The thought that you don't die alone is a right that everyone has.

As long as it anoints and helps to relieve the thought of pain and loss.

So who am I to have an opinion on those who want enlightenment.

-

Thing is, I'm not afraid of death, really not.

I don't believe, and that also helps enormously.

People who believe say that they have no fear because it supports them.

Don't get me wrong, everyone is free to believe.

But for me, religion is all too often based and grafted on fears, insecurities and personal instability.

And that translates into a form of collective meaning through prayer and gatherings.

Fine, but a missed opportunity of free thinking and exploring imho.

And I have to excuse myself.

I sounded very harsh and unfriendly saying that Prince died alone, is something I did not mean disrespectful or reproachful.

Peace though.

-

Vannormal said:

But for me, religion is all too often based and grafted on fears, insecurities and personal instability.

And that translates into a form of collective meaning through prayer and gatherings.

Fine, but a missed opportunity of free thinking and exploring imho.

And I have to excuse myself.

I sounded very harsh and unfriendly saying that Prince died alone, is something I did not mean disrespectful or reproachful.

I was under the impression that Lovesexy was born from insecurities,
personal instability yet free-thinking and exploring.
The songs from Lovesexy or TRC don't sound to me like
being written and composed based on fear.

A cynical mind could say TRC is ONLY based on fear,
judging it paranoid to the bone. Of course it is.
I don't condone TRC in many places,
yet it's anything but music based on fear.

It's past fear, post-fear. TRC is the album where Prince finally makes peace
with the death of his son (but will realize only later
how much Dirty Larry placed his Kirby® in his brains and soul).


Actually, I don't think Prince ever feared anything (Go Bikinis!) or anyone but God.
That's why it got easy for Larry. Hey, he didn't mean bad,
but there are better ways to live according to a Universal concept.

This JW thing is sure grim, the chosen ones and all of this shit...
"I have a reservation!" shouted Madge, and she was right to mock.
And Skipper was in his 3rd Soul then, so of course he got the joke.
"Even in reverse, just like Wolfgang in the movie!".

Those were the times when
we could crack a laugh at God,
yet still believe in Him.
Then they come and tell you
you have to pick a side.


I think SKipper had a Pascal's Wager going on: Prince doesn't fear death (just like you,
hey just like me, but of course it's not exactly true, not for me, nor for you).
Yet between the two outcomes of the bet, guess which one Skipper picks.
A classic with great talents, since they don't understand themselves
where their talents come from (Mozart finding an answer in the Freemasons,
Jimmy Page with Aleister Crow, Richards, Pop or Reed not getting one with heroin).
If you're a positive person you're going with the positive option,
it's not rocket science. Works if you're feeling south, too.


You being harsh or unfriendly or anything never crossed my mind,
this is what actually happened:


He died alone.


Trust me, believing in God doesn't mean
you don't wanna kick The Olded Bearded Ass
back up to Kingdom Come for the terrible things
He sometimes let happen.

Prince's death is no more important than any unfair death.
But if you feel close to the deceased,
what's already unfair acquires the taste of
pain, anger, deep sadness and God knows what else.

I don't think believing in God saves you from the pain,
the anger, the deep sadness, the blasphemy, all seven and God knows what else.

It's about something else.
And according to the story, it's also about somewhere else,
which would explain why it can sometimes suck so much
feeling like you're stuck "down" here.


(as if there was such a thing as a "up" or a "down".
Considering the universal scale of it all...
Shit goes deep when you start to really dig your own Inner Black Hole — easy Doggies, that's a figure of speech.


If a compass points the north, it points to the south.
Someone said "hey, it makes us look like we're on top of them all!"
at some point.

"Up" and "Down", "North" and "South", "Left", "At the Right of the Father",
let's not derail into how White Supremacy has distorted
cosmic religious imagery through the ages to their benefit now.)

[Edited 1/8/21 12:57pm]

bonatoc said:

Never change, you crazy fucker

Prince had several 'close-to-death' experiences that we know of.

He talked to Judith about his last one, (Moline)

and it did not appear to be

particularly upsetting other than he had to work very hard to get back into

his body. I think he was also quite comfortable with drugs and how they can provide comfort.

So, that part did not seem too difficult.

I think the hard part was that he seemed very ill the last 2 years or so and did not have anyone

to accompany him on that journey where he was facing mortality and was unaccompanied for the most part xcept for 1-2 employees and his sister with whom he was not close.

Margot said:

Prince had several 'close-to-death' experiences that we know of.

He talked to Judith about his last one, (Moline)

and it did not appear to be

particularly upsetting other than he had to work very hard to get back into

his body. I think he was also quite comfortable with drugs and how they can provide comfort.

So, that part did not seem too difficult.

I think the hard part was that he seemed very ill the last 2 years or so and did not have anyone

to accompany him on that journey where he was facing mortality and was unaccompanied for the most part xcept for 1-2 employees and his sister with whom he was not close.

I wonder how his trajectory would've been if instead of cutting people out of his circle, he kept people in his circle who cared about him and yet kept him down to earth.. You may disagree, but people like Jill Jones and Chaka Khan and, if she lived, Boni Boyer come to mind

khill95 said:

Margot said:

Prince had several 'close-to-death' experiences that we know of.

He talked to Judith about his last one, (Moline)

and it did not appear to be

particularly upsetting other than he had to work very hard to get back into

his body. I think he was also quite comfortable with drugs and how they can provide comfort.

So, that part did not seem too difficult.

I think the hard part was that he seemed very ill the last 2 years or so and did not have anyone

to accompany him on that journey where he was facing mortality and was unaccompanied for the most part xcept for 1-2 employees and his sister with whom he was not close.

I wonder how his trajectory would've been if instead of cutting people out of his circle, he kept people in his circle who cared about him and yet kept him down to earth.. You may disagree, but people like Jill Jones and Chaka Khan and, if she lived, Boni Boyer come to mind

I completely agree. Not sure Prince did, though. I don't get the sense he liked to be challenged.