file under 1990-1999

some of lovesexy is overproduced, or over arranged/layered

batman is the same, though maybe the problem there is that it was over produced, under written

diamonds and pearls i think was in general not too cluttered

but the symbol album definitely was

some of it has wayyyyy too much going on

and its underwritten again

emancipation also had a lot of songs that had too much going on - but i suppose he was so worried about it being a new chapter, he probably overworked it over and over

The early versions of Endorphinemachine are far superior to the one that ended up on TGE (IMO).

Besides that, I don't think he made too many wrong decisions musically, and none of us here are remotely qualified to dispute his musical decisions.

I read where he said once "I just wish I could it to sound like what's in my head" so I'll attribute it to that. AS an artist myself, a lot of times I'll keep fucking with something and doing re-draws because, in my head, I'm picturing something different. But often, people are more drawn to my initial drafts and think they're better.

There's also the thing where almost everyone who sees my stuff has a different favorite and a lot of times really like pieces that I don't consider "Finished" or fully realized. A lot of bands and musicians hate their biggest hits and thought they were complete shit when they wrote those songs.

This subject came up in the "Data Bank" thread too.

Sometimes, as an artist, you think you didn't work enough in it for it to be good or had a different idea starting out versus what you wound up with.

You have to keep in mind that Prince told Leeds to put horns on it and Leeds did.

That doesn't mean that all of Leeds horns would have made the final cut. And the fact that Prince disregarded everything showed he could see less is more in certain songs.

Prince was master of less in more up until Lovesexy.

But he already start going over the top in 1985.

Some of Family stuff i can't listen because of those

painful overlong sax solos.

Also 1 of Sheila E albums is one long sax solo.i think 1987 album.

Those Montreux shows 2013 with million horn players on stage are the worst

concerts by Prince in my opinion.

I like horns in funk but somehow they never complimented Prince music.

this is a weird thread

in the 80s prince was all about less is more

the dorothy parker horns version shows he was just considering it, not actually releasing it

he made the right call

in the 90s, he got a lot more maximal

minimalism went way out the window

thebanishedone said:

I like horns in funk but somehow they never complimented Prince music.

controversial!

never?

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

thebanishedone said:

I like horns in funk but somehow they never complimented Prince music.

controversial!

never?

On Parade and Sign o the times tours horns were in the function of music.hornheads knew how to make important but not overblown horn arrangement. horns in his latter days 2012 2013 terrible

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

What about the rainbow children years? I never thought maceo, candy, najee etc were that great really.

Rainbow Kids years only small horn section

prince couldnt see that less is more sometimes? i guess youve never heard kiss?

[Edited 12/26/20 8:28am]

savagedreams said:

prince couldnt see that less is more sometimes? i guess youve never heard kiss?

[Edited 12/26/20 8:28am]

that's kind of true. Often times he did and was able to strip down tracks to their bare essence. Other times he kept revisting them, over dubbing them too much and layering on too much production. But the whole argument boils down to us basicaly arguing "why didn't Prince write songs the way I would?" and that's a bit of a fool's game.

I think he was chsing the sound in his head usually and trying to make things perfect. I won't faul him for any of it nor tell him how to write music. He was far better at it than me. You know?

The op's question baffles me a bit.

Didn't Prince make 10-15 versions of varying lengths of every other song he created because he knew that sometimes less is more, sometimes more is more, and sometimes too much is just enough?

Why couldn't Prince exactly do, as I wanted him to do?

From listening to Eric on the Prince Podcast it sounds like the horns request was done after the release of the album. Possibly for a maxi-single release? Who knows. But Eric says something(paraphrasing) about always liking that song and why would he think it needed horns. So i don't thing it was ever cinsideredfo the SOTT album.

I think P himself knew he would overdub and overproduce too much, a way of channeling the mad scientist in him where probably all record producers use that head space.

Take for instance 3121, an album eminently thick with maybe too much going on. The guys playing alongside P on the record were a a couple of members from the early 90s period, first NPG iteration.
According to one of them, immediately after the record was finished, he would jam and record new songs as a trio or quartet, them included, this new live material. In other words stripped down, no overdubs. So as to try and get that analytical, fussy approach to the record he had just recorded completely out of his system. That's according to NPG member, either Michael or Sonny.

masaba said:

Prince is literally the master of less is more in pop.

YESSS. His pop songs are mostly raw renditions. "Free Urself" is a good example. Very simple arrangemnt not overproduced.

I think For You--.>Sign of the Times/Black album was raw.

Beginning from Lovesexy, he overproduces. Positivity is an incredible song, but I would have love stripped down.

Come demo is raw, but then he puts the polished one with the horns on the album. His began to have poor judgment of the sounds of his songs and couldn't keep himslef from overproducing. My guess is his addiction played a big part in losing the ability of what sounds good, and what is sexy. Just my 2 cents

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

some of lovesexy is overproduced, or over arranged/layered

batman is the same, though maybe the problem there is that it was over produced, under written

diamonds and pearls i think was in general not too cluttered

but the symbol album definitely was

some of it has wayyyyy too much going on

and its underwritten again

emancipation also had a lot of songs that had too much going on - but i suppose he was so worried about it being a new chapter, he probably overworked it over and over

BS! As P once said - it sounds as it sounds because it was MEANT TO SOUND THAT WAY!

jaawwnn said:

file under 1990-1999

-

Or file under 1991 - 2015.

Just Kidding.

Overproduced is not the right term, when you want to point out the 'less is more' approach.

Lovesexy is a masterpiece (to me).

Just try that ! Or find another artist who achieved a similar result.

Those layers upon layers are an almost unheard of and wonderfully complex whole, which translates and radiates total joy and tremendous skills.

Even "3 Chains Of Gold" may sound onverproduced, but that is in the ear of the beholder.

Just like all other self-produced Prince products.

Isn't it all just a matter of taste?

I'm very happy to have the ''Dorothy Parker'' with horns by the way.

-

[Edited 12/28/20 3:23am]

camilleisastar said:

After long listening to SoTT and the horn version of Dorothy Parker, just so pleased that he didn’t leave them on as it totally changes the song from one of his very finest songs to a jazz cafe background drone. Are there any other songs you really wished he didn’t overdo and stripped them back a bit

NO - literally not a single one. It's like telling Da Vinci to take 2 arms & 2 legs off Vitruvian Man ffs!

Prince's art was HIS art & if that's how HE wanted to present it then so be it.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

camilleisastar said:

After long listening to SoTT and the horn version of Dorothy Parker, just so pleased that he didn’t leave them on as it totally changes the song from one of his very finest songs to a jazz cafe background drone. Are there any other songs you really wished he didn’t overdo and stripped them back a bit

NO - literally not a single one. It's like telling Da Vinci to take 2 arms & 2 legs off Vitruvian Man ffs!

Prince's art was HIS art & if that's how HE wanted to present it then so be it.

-

Something like that, yes.

-

Frank Zappa's Joe's Garage from '79 is a good example of how a record can sound thic without being overproduced. The sound is AMAZING. There's a lot going on but never too much. Back then probably 24 tracks was the maximum you could lay on the tape, maybe 32.

But I can't think of one record from the 70s that sounds overproduced. Also, having a great dynamic range helps a multilayered production not sound cluttered. Joe's Garage seems to have great dynamics. So maybe that's part of the secret. Prince's The Rainbow Children has expansive dynamic range as well, allegedly, but some people think it's overproduced.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Frank Zappa's Joe's Garage from '79 is a good example of how a record can sound thic without being overproduced. The sound is AMAZING. There's a lot going on but never too much. Back then probably 24 tracks was the maximum you could lay on the tape, maybe 32.

But I can't think of one record from the 70s that sounds overproduced. Also, having a great dynamic range helps a multilayered production not sound cluttered. Joe's Garage seems to have great dynamics. So maybe that's part of the secret. Prince's The Rainbow Children has expansive dynamic range as well, allegedly, but some people think it's overproduced.

i dont think they think its over produced i think they dont like the loudness thing going on