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Thread started 12/08/20 1:38am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

would prince have sold all rights to his music like dylan?

im going to say yes

prince never had a fixed outlook on anything in life

yeah he cared about his masters, but only cos they were money generators

he didnt care about the music

history to him wasnt of much interest

this is a guy who never wanted to reissue his old albums, prob wouldnt have played his old hits if he had new ones people wanted to hear, and in general, had very little interest in what he did decades ago.

so i think he would have sold his rights just like dylan.

the music business isnt how it was when prince started attacking warners in the early 90s

he would see where things were going, where the money was, and sell up pronto.

i think he would have relished it in fact.

dylan knows where things are going for heritage artists, plus hes getting old, so has little interest in this stuff anymore most probably, so is happy to give the authority to someone else.

pretty sure prince would do the same.

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Reply #1 posted 12/08/20 3:06am

Rimshottbob

The most important thing to note here, is that Dylan hasn't sold 'all rights' to his music. He's only sold the rights to the publishing.

The rights to the recordings of his music and the masters remain with him/Columbia Records.

Makes a massive difference.

I know Prince said 'sell my publishing? What a laugh!' in White Mansion, but yes, things are very different these days, and he may well have sold the publishing rights as a way of guaranteeing income in a very uncertain market...

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Reply #2 posted 12/08/20 4:54am

JorisE73

?? I thought he struck a deal with Universal for his publishing some years before 2016.

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Reply #3 posted 12/08/20 6:56am

thedoorkeeper

Yes he would have sold the music rights.
And then spent the next 20 years
complaining that he got ripped off.
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Reply #4 posted 12/08/20 7:04am

Musze

avatar

thedoorkeeper said:

Yes he would have sold the music rights. And then spent the next 20 years complaining that he got ripped off.

biggrin We miss our litigious Gemini.

I Love U, But I Don't Trust U Anymore...
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Reply #5 posted 12/08/20 8:18am

BartVanHemelen

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1. Doubtful he would have gotten that much money.

.

2. Considering that Prince left the excellent Warner-Chappell, he already proved he was a lousy businessman. Sure, he signed up with another great company, but there was really no reason to leave WC. Of course, some years before his death he left the other company, and set up... his own. Considering that Prince's business ventures were all miserable failures, and considering that he had zero experience with handling such complicated things as Publishing, who knows what blunders have been made in those few years NPG Publishing was in charge. Of course, after his death his Estate quickly signed a deal with Universal.

.

On a side note: Dylan's catalog goes back to 1962. IMHO the copyrights on such old songs should have ended looong ago. I find it absurd that a company is now paying him $300 million to exploit these songs, becasue they're still under copyright until 70 years after Dylan's death. That is IMHO absurd.

.

https://www.futurelearn.c...eps/105723

.

For example, the British writer Sir Arthur Conan Doyle died on 7 July 1930, more than 85 years ago. All of Conan Doyle’s published work is now in the public domain, including his stories from The Strand Magazine featuring perhaps the most famous literary detective the world has ever known – Sherlock Holmes. This means his work can be re-used by anyone for free, without having to ask for permission. If you wanted to publish and sell Conan Doyle’s stories, you are free to do so. If you want to make use of his stories in the creation of new, derivative works – such as the lyrics of a song – you are free to do that too. The copyright has expired. The work is in the public domain.

.

A YT video on copyright I saw recently argued that a much more sensible time would be 50 years max, and preferably less. That would mean we could now get really creative with the earlier work of The Beatles for instance, or tons of other songs. Instead, we're still massively constrained. And all because a handful of major companies have bought off politicans to change these rules to our detriment, all so they could make money. The joint efforts of Disney and Sonny Bono means works from 1924 (!) only entered the public domain this year. That is ridiculous.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #6 posted 12/08/20 8:22am

langebleu

avatar

moderator

JorisE73 said:

?? I thought he struck a deal with Universal for his publishing some years before 2016.


When the publishing rights previously assigned to Warmers reverted to Prince, he entered into an assignment deal with Universal, which was later renewed.

According to Billboard, that deal finally expired in 2013, with Prince and staff reported to be administering his publishing rights - but with admnistrative support from Peermusic (wwhich might have been tantamount to another assignment deal).

The Prince Estate subsequently entered into a publishing deal with Universal.

https://www.billboard.com...publishing

The reporting of the Dylan deal suggests that the publishing rights have been sold rather than assigned for a limited period.

ALT+PLS+RTN: Pure as a pane of ice. It's a gift.
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Reply #7 posted 12/08/20 8:55am

jaawwnn

avatar

Copyright will last for as long as the Disney Corporation wants to make money off Mickey Mouse.

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #8 posted 12/08/20 9:24am

Margot

Musze said:

thedoorkeeper said:

Yes he would have sold the music rights. And then spent the next 20 years complaining that he got ripped off.

biggrin We miss our litigious Gemini.

LOL

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Reply #9 posted 12/08/20 9:45am

lavendardrumma
chine

Well what went on with Van Jones and that assistant? He apprently did make a publishing deal. He announced publishing deals too, probably for a rights managed situation.


Most of these publishing deals are big advances so artists don't have to work on the road or in the studio when they're burnt out. Could be Prince would do that, but he had the Vault too.

He had pretty unique views on the industry, and living off credit.

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Reply #10 posted 12/08/20 11:15am

tab32792

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

im going to say yes

prince never had a fixed outlook on anything in life

yeah he cared about his masters, but only cos they were money generators

he didnt care about the music

history to him wasnt of much interest

this is a guy who never wanted to reissue his old albums, prob wouldnt have played his old hits if he had new ones people wanted to hear, and in general, had very little interest in what he did decades ago.

so i think he would have sold his rights just like dylan.

the music business isnt how it was when prince started attacking warners in the early 90s

he would see where things were going, where the money was, and sell up pronto.

i think he would have relished it in fact.

dylan knows where things are going for heritage artists, plus hes getting old, so has little interest in this stuff anymore most probably, so is happy to give the authority to someone else.

pretty sure prince would do the same.

you're crazy as hell if you think Prince would've sold the rights to his music. After ALL of that are you really a fan? were you ever paying attention? From the beginning of the WB fight he was all about that and it continued til the end when he's talking about warner's on twitter. Just because he didn't like to look back (which in my opinion is smart cause it can stunt your growth as an artist, especially when it's bad enough you aren't having exciting or new things happen like when you're young and hungry) doesn't mean he didn't care about the music. He just wasn't much of a dweller or a reminicer like so many of us are; almost to a fault. Even the way you view the WB situation as him attacking them, says all that needs to be said. Why would he be concerned about reissuing old shit if he's still actively making new shit? regardless of whether or not you liked it.

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Reply #11 posted 12/08/20 11:16am

tab32792

BartVanHemelen said:

1. Doubtful he would have gotten that much money.

.

2. Considering that Prince left the excellent Warner-Chappell, he already proved he was a lousy businessman. Sure, he signed up with another great company, but there was really no reason to leave WC. Of course, some years before his death he left the other company, and set up... his own. Considering that Prince's business ventures were all miserable failures, and considering that he had zero experience with handling such complicated things as Publishing, who knows what blunders have been made in those few years NPG Publishing was in charge. Of course, after his death his Estate quickly signed a deal with Universal.

.

On a side note: Dylan's catalog goes back to 1962. IMHO the copyrights on such old songs should have ended looong ago. I find it absurd that a company is now paying him $300 million to exploit these songs, becasue they're still under copyright until 70 years after Dylan's death. That is IMHO absurd.

.

https://www.futurelearn.c...eps/105723

.

For example, the British writer Sir Arthur Conan Doyle died on 7 July 1930, more than 85 years ago. All of Conan Doyle’s published work is now in the public domain, including his stories from The Strand Magazine featuring perhaps the most famous literary detective the world has ever known – Sherlock Holmes. This means his work can be re-used by anyone for free, without having to ask for permission. If you wanted to publish and sell Conan Doyle’s stories, you are free to do so. If you want to make use of his stories in the creation of new, derivative works – such as the lyrics of a song – you are free to do that too. The copyright has expired. The work is in the public domain.

.

A YT video on copyright I saw recently argued that a much more sensible time would be 50 years max, and preferably less. That would mean we could now get really creative with the earlier work of The Beatles for instance, or tons of other songs. Instead, we're still massively constrained. And all because a handful of major companies have bought off politicans to change these rules to our detriment, all so they could make money. The joint efforts of Disney and Sonny Bono means works from 1924 (!) only entered the public domain this year. That is ridiculous.

jesus christ. why are you even here anymore? do you even like the man? lol i've never seen a positive post from you in the 15 years or so i've been on this site.

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Reply #12 posted 12/08/20 12:03pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

tab32792 said:



funkbabyandthebabysitters said:


im going to say yes


prince never had a fixed outlook on anything in life


yeah he cared about his masters, but only cos they were money generators


he didnt care about the music


history to him wasnt of much interest


this is a guy who never wanted to reissue his old albums, prob wouldnt have played his old hits if he had new ones people wanted to hear, and in general, had very little interest in what he did decades ago.


so i think he would have sold his rights just like dylan.


the music business isnt how it was when prince started attacking warners in the early 90s


he would see where things were going, where the money was, and sell up pronto.


i think he would have relished it in fact.


dylan knows where things are going for heritage artists, plus hes getting old, so has little interest in this stuff anymore most probably, so is happy to give the authority to someone else.


pretty sure prince would do the same.







you're crazy as hell if you think Prince would've sold the rights to his music. After ALL of that are you really a fan? were you ever paying attention? From the beginning of the WB fight he was all about that and it continued til the end when he's talking about warner's on twitter. Just because he didn't like to look back (which in my opinion is smart cause it can stunt your growth as an artist, especially when it's bad enough you aren't having exciting or new things happen like when you're young and hungry) doesn't mean he didn't care about the music. He just wasn't much of a dweller or a reminicer like so many of us are; almost to a fault. Even the way you view the WB situation as him attacking them, says all that needs to be said. Why would he be concerned about reissuing old shit if he's still actively making new shit? regardless of whether or not you liked it.



Lol did you burst a vein writing that?

The point as another person said, Dylan still owns his masters. This deal is for publishing. So prince,despite his battle for his masters, could retain them and still do a deal like Dylan just did. Fact is that prince wasnt always as consistent as you might like to think. His quest for control was the motivation behind all his moves in the last 25 years of his career. He hated others profiting off his work. But he also hated other artists making better deals. So I bet if he saw this, he would be eager to do the same. Music industry isnt what it was in 95. Hed do what he had to do make more money than the competition.

He did attack WB. I passed no judgement on that. But the fact is he did attack them often
It's why he was paranoid they would hire a hit man to kill him.
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Reply #13 posted 12/09/20 6:08am

JorisE73

langebleu said:

JorisE73 said:

?? I thought he struck a deal with Universal for his publishing some years before 2016.


When the publishing rights previously assigned to Warmers reverted to Prince, he entered into an assignment deal with Universal, which was later renewed.

According to Billboard, that deal finally expired in 2013, with Prince and staff reported to be administering his publishing rights - but with admnistrative support from Peermusic (wwhich might have been tantamount to another assignment deal).

The Prince Estate subsequently entered into a publishing deal with Universal.

https://www.billboard.com...publishing

The reporting of the Dylan deal suggests that the publishing rights have been sold rather than assigned for a limited period.


thumbs up!

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Reply #14 posted 12/09/20 6:11am

JorisE73

BartVanHemelen said:

1. Doubtful he would have gotten that much money.

.

2. Considering that Prince left the excellent Warner-Chappell, he already proved he was a lousy businessman. Sure, he signed up with another great company, but there was really no reason to leave WC. Of course, some years before his death he left the other company, and set up... his own. Considering that Prince's business ventures were all miserable failures, and considering that he had zero experience with handling such complicated things as Publishing, who knows what blunders have been made in those few years NPG Publishing was in charge. Of course, after his death his Estate quickly signed a deal with Universal.

.

On a side note: Dylan's catalog goes back to 1962. IMHO the copyrights on such old songs should have ended looong ago. I find it absurd that a company is now paying him $300 million to exploit these songs, becasue they're still under copyright until 70 years after Dylan's death. That is IMHO absurd.

.

https://www.futurelearn.c...eps/105723

.

For example, the British writer Sir Arthur Conan Doyle died on 7 July 1930, more than 85 years ago. All of Conan Doyle’s published work is now in the public domain, including his stories from The Strand Magazine featuring perhaps the most famous literary detective the world has ever known – Sherlock Holmes. This means his work can be re-used by anyone for free, without having to ask for permission. If you wanted to publish and sell Conan Doyle’s stories, you are free to do so. If you want to make use of his stories in the creation of new, derivative works – such as the lyrics of a song – you are free to do that too. The copyright has expired. The work is in the public domain.

.

A YT video on copyright I saw recently argued that a much more sensible time would be 50 years max, and preferably less. That would mean we could now get really creative with the earlier work of The Beatles for instance, or tons of other songs. Instead, we're still massively constrained. And all because a handful of major companies have bought off politicans to change these rules to our detriment, all so they could make money. The joint efforts of Disney and Sonny Bono means works from 1924 (!) only entered the public domain this year. That is ridiculous.


in my opinion the copyright should stay intact and should only revert to the public domain if there aren't anyone left who have a legal right to the material.
Imagine all these no talent assholes raping great music for a buck sad

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Reply #15 posted 12/09/20 7:44am

Vannormal

avatar

-

I think Prince wasn't the kind of guy to sell his own stuff.

He was way too untrustfull and stubborn.

He had no good reason.

He was financialy somewhat safe, no kids, no family.

You can say for his (half) siters and brothers, but I seriously doubt that.

Like Bart said, imagine if he wanted to sell it, it sure wasn't going to be worth all that much

in the last years of his life.

-

[Edited 12/10/20 4:06am]

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #16 posted 12/09/20 8:21am

databank

avatar

jaawwnn said:

Copyright will last for as long as the Disney Corporation wants to make money off Mickey Mouse.

Even Disney failed to make copyright last forever. The original, 1928 incarnation of Mickey will fall into public domain in 3 years (i.e. you can make Mickey action figuers that look the way he looked in 1928, but not the way he looks in later incarnations). Every subsequent Disney property, in their incarnation at any given time, will fall into public domain after 95 years. The only restriction will be not to make it look like your product is a Disney product (which would violate trademark law, for which there's no time limit).

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #17 posted 12/09/20 9:11am

ufoclub

avatar

Doesn't it make sense to time out copyright based on:

A. On the status of the holder / owner / director being alive. In other words if they are alive, they can still actively hold the copyright if it a an individual that it is registered to.

B. A time period if not. Like 50 years, or 75, or whatever.

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Reply #18 posted 12/09/20 1:58pm

lavendardrumma
chine

ufoclub said:

Doesn't it make sense to time out copyright based on:

A. On the status of the holder / owner / director being alive. In other words if they are alive, they can still actively hold the copyright if it a an individual that it is registered to.

B. A time period if not. Like 50 years, or 75, or whatever.


I used to think public domain is a good thing, but in this age, not so much. People have no boundaries. It's one thing to see the Black Album circulate largely in pirated form, and another for people to be able to just do anything they want with Prince's music, likeness, etc. Imagine a musical porn with deep fakes revolving around the idea Prince wrote all his songs about Vanity, or was the actual devil using Black Album songs. My imagination can't even come up with the worst scenarios we would see.

[Edited 12/9/20 14:00pm]

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Reply #19 posted 12/09/20 3:17pm

SexyMuthaF

I say no because many songs he wanted to be kept from the public either because he wasn't totally happy with them or they conflicted with his faith.
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Reply #20 posted 12/10/20 10:52am

Se7en

avatar

I've never been much of a Dylan fan (mostly I don't care for his singing voice) but I have to admit that he writes some VERY good songs!

I'm happy for him that he's able to achieve a deal this large. Bowie did something similar too.

I don't think Prince would have sold his publishing rights, especially since at the very end he created NPG Publishing in the hopes of monetizing his music for commercials, movies, etc.

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Reply #21 posted 12/10/20 11:54am

RJOrion

at some point. yes. of course
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Reply #22 posted 12/10/20 11:55am

RJOrion

thedoorkeeper said:

Yes he would have sold the music rights.
And then spent the next 20 years
complaining that he got ripped off.




LOL...word
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Reply #23 posted 12/10/20 1:46pm

looby

thedoorkeeper said:

Yes he would have sold the music rights. And then spent the next 20 years complaining that he got ripped off.

lol I had to laugh when I read that one. I loved the guy, but you're probably right.

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Reply #24 posted 12/13/20 4:02pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Dolly Parton is doing this too.

So you KNOW prince should've been trying to get his piece of the pie too.
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Reply #25 posted 12/13/20 6:18pm

vinaysfunk

Uh no he wouldn’t have sold his publishing rights. In fact he sang about this very subject on Emancipation’s song White Mansion.

“How about them publishing rights? Sell my publishing? What a laugh. I don’t know Bo, but I do know math!”

To me that’s quite clear how he felt about this very subject. So I don’t believe he would. To him he views it as a non starter.

And I get that.
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Reply #26 posted 01/06/21 3:08pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Looks like Neil young has jumped on this bandwagon too.

Face it, if prince were around, he would be right there, waiting next in line.

All those tears battling for his masters would have evaporated.

He was always looking where the industry was going and he would know which way the wind was blowing.
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Reply #27 posted 01/06/21 4:06pm

Margot

He may have considered it but I can't see him giving up 'his children.'

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Reply #28 posted 01/07/21 1:06am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

prince wasnt always as romantic as some like to think.

he was shrewd as anything.

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Reply #29 posted 01/07/21 1:08am

JorisE73

Margot said:

He may have considered it but I can't see him giving up 'his children.'


For the right price he would sell his "children" in a heartbeat.

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Forums > Prince: Music and More > would prince have sold all rights to his music like dylan?