funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

I think you are all assuming everything he wrote was auto biographical or truthful Breakdown to me just sounds like a great song he could have written for anyone The drinking details are pretty typical regret theme lines It just doesn't ring true as we know how he lived but most people who are not big fans do not But it's still a great song At this stage, he wasnt that careful about what he wrote anymore, so I'm thinking its just a song like any other If it wasnt one of his last albums I doubt we would read much into it

Yeah, as I mentioned over on another thread's discussion of this song, hopefully P would get a good laugh out of my musings connected to some of his lyrics. Like I said over there, it's easy to take something too much in the way of autobiography or too simplistically or shallowly or too deeply.

Also said over on that other thread that for me at least, it's easy to imagine Prince leaving a large group of people early and retreating from a large party group to his quarters, "sometimes with a friend in tow." But perhaps I underestimate how often it was someone else's quarters. What do I know.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Owen husney got him a place of his own when he signed a deal And it was when he got famous that he started to get more chances to sleep around Not before He was never a big drinker at this stage anyway, going from what most people gave said

As far as the earlier mention of lyrics possibly making reference to painkillers (vs. alcohol intoxication), this brings up P's decision (from all appearances) to be relatively alone in dealing with any substance use issues and also in dealing anything that may have launched or driven the use.

IMO, it's a good thing that the current definition of substance use disorder has a focus on whether the substance brings net harmful consequences to a person's life.

The bottom line is that medicine is a practical field with a purpose to help people. Sometimes, a way of substance use, even though it may cause problems and may involve physical or other dependence, is the best net, overall option for someone's health and well-being.

Trouble is, going it relatively alone can more easily leave someone in disordered use. That is, leave them in a state of harm from using a substance in a way (amount, type) when there may be better options for treatment and relief.

Sorry for using these examples so often, but taking as example the use of high levels of opiates to try to treat and soothe certain mood or immune conditions, especially over long periods of time like years...it may not be the best option, as opiates can really do a number on the mood and immune systems.

But other times, the current abilities of medicine and other methods of help don't have more or better avenues of treatment and comfort to offer. This gets back to why I think the practical focus on net harmful consequences (given the options afforded by the time and place in which a person lives, as well as his/her current state of health and life expectancy) is a positive focus in the current defintion of substance use disorder.

Just using these general examples because they're relatively easy, but the basic point I'm trying to make is that if a person with unipolar or bipolar depression, for example, for a time finds relief and help through opiates, who could not be grateful for that person's moments of relief and help?

But if the person can move away from insistence on being extremely isolated and alone in coping, it can be far easier from a medical standpoint (or at least should be, but that's another issue/story)...far easier from a medical standpoint to get appropriate treatment that doesn't bring on unnecessary additional pain and suffering along with the relief it might give.

[Edited 1/1/21 11:15am]

this idea that princes music is autobiographical i think is naive, and kinda cliche.

his music has never been that clear or easy to pinpoint in that way.

for one thing, he just doesnt write in that way, is not that transparent, and enjoys misleading people.

that did not change as he got older.

in fact it increased, he got more and more cryptic

he got LESS personal i would say, not more.

And that is ok

Princes music appealed to me because of how he put his personality in the music, not his whole life story

[Edited 1/1/21 14:27pm]

[Edited 1/1/21 15:25pm]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

wildgoldenhoney said:

After I looked at the lyrics again, overall he regretted his loose morals when he was younger. The journal full of numbers and the pages he went through mean the different women he slept with.

Prince being a control freak, I cant really imagine him staying at many womens houses I imagine they stayed at his He had his own place pretty early in his career

I think he is talking about 'wilder' parties, orgies etc...the kind that make you wince when you wake up. (not that I would know...ha!)

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Honestly though, if youre intoxicated first and first to leave,you're prob not really gonna get much done at sn orgy lol

Yeah, tbh I was thinking that sometimes it was retiring from the larger group to elsewhere at Paisley with not just a friend...but friends.

A girlfriend and a 90's employee have attested to this. The employee even described a Paisley squad. On call via pagers.

SexyMuthaF said:

None of this should be surprising for someone who is a sexy famous wealthy entertainer.

Absolutely not! But in general, I do too much straying from the topic and joking around.

The OP's the rightful expert on the topic : ), but to look at Breakdown in light of OP topic might be to look at it connected to the terms people apply (or not) to relationships, and different ways of being together, and being alone.

Tried to express some of this on another thread that got to discussing Breakdown. Here's (from that thread) yet more of my words. Apologies in advance. : )

-------------------------------------------

Does lyric below play much into your thoughts? I've wondered if it could have been written both with thoughts of being more vulnerable to nonhuman forces, and also with thoughts of no longer being quite so closed off interpersonally. But who knows? P would probably laugh if he could read this attempt to think about his lyrics. I'd like to think he'd enjoy it a lot, too, as he loved to keep 'em guessing and confused. : )


"there's a door that U can walk thru where there used 2 b a wall"


Also, do you have any thoughts on this song's party reminiscences? Asking because it seems that P loved to sing about, and literally throw, big parties. It's just that for some reason, this song's description seems like that of someone immersed in the center of the parties he threw.

From a lot of what I've read, P threw amazing parties, but also spent lots of time not at the center. He'd be on stage, up above the crowd. Or at the fringes of a club/party, checking out how the dance floor responded to his music. Or retreating to his quarters, maybe with a friend in tow.

I gotta laugh, because all my thoughts are based on assuming the song is autobiographical, at least in part. Never the best idea to assume.

[Edited 1/2/21 12:06pm]

rednblue said:

datdude said:

rednblue said:

Absolutely not! But in general, I do too much straying from the topic and joking around.

The OP's the rightful expert on the topic : ), but to look at Breakdown in light of OP topic might be to look at it connected to the terms people apply (or not) to relationships, and different ways of being together, and being alone.

Tried to express some of this on another thread that got to discussing Breakdown. Here's (from that thread) yet more of my words. Apologies in advance. : )

-------------------------------------------

Does lyric below play much into your thoughts? I've wondered if it could have been written both with thoughts of being more vulnerable to nonhuman forces, and also with thoughts of no longer being quite so closed off interpersonally. But who knows? P would probably laugh if he could read this attempt to think about his lyrics. I'd like to think he'd enjoy it a lot, too, as he loved to keep 'em guessing and confused. : )


"there's a door that U can walk thru where there used 2 b a wall"


Also, do you have any thoughts on this song's party reminiscences? Asking because it seems that P loved to sing about, and literally throw, big parties. It's just that for some reason, this song's description seems like that of someone immersed in the center of the parties he threw.

From a lot of what I've read, P threw amazing parties, but also spent lots of time not at the center. He'd be on stage, up above the crowd. Or at the fringes of a club/party, checking out how the dance floor responded to his music. Or retreating to his quarters, maybe with a friend in tow.

I gotta laugh, because all my thoughts are based on assuming the song is autobiographical, at least in part. Never the best idea to assume.

[Edited 1/2/21 12:06pm]

thanks for ur post. though u jest, just to reiterate I'm not the "expert" just like to take deeper dives beyond the knee jerk, d'uh he was a rich celebrity as if that's synonymous with social maladjustment which I think he had a bit of (celebrity notwithstanding but exacerbating). that said I will listen with fresh ears to the Breakdown. it didn't have emotional weight he seemed to be going for on it with me, but it did for others. the door where there was a wall lyric is profound tho, a definite sign of growth

First off, in case it wasn't clear, I completely didn't mean you were claiming expert status. I meant that you, as the OP, are the expert on the thread. The expert on what questions it asks and what it seeks to explore. If that makes any sense. : )

REALLY, REALLY appreciate your thoughts on this thread. In case you couldn't already tell, I agree about celebrity exacerbating struggles. As you say, "celebrity notwithstanding but exacerbating."

When I replied "Absolutely" to SexyMuthaF, I meant that it's completely unsurprising that a funk/pop/rock star would have people telling stories of stuff way beyond what most people experience (like an in-house group of women with pagers to alert them to group rendezvous).

That story was much like a rock-and-roll cliche, but Prince-style, as he had a concert venue and his own informal living quarters in the same (Paisley) building.

Speaking of cliches, many say they find Breakdown cliche-laden, and many say they find it to have a highly personal feel. Not saying the two are mutually exclusive. Not at all. Just that it's interesting, to me at least.

Have heard Breakdown described as sounding like a very personal statement of someone who regrets having fallen into cliche stuff. Maybe the funny thing is that while many (in total across time and places) people struggle significantly with distraction by material stuff...or struggle significantly with social (as you mention) or intoxication stuff, each person's story is unique. Sometimes, cliches about struggle make it harder for people to recognize less familiar experiences of struggle.

At the same time, there's that saying about cliches being "cliches for a reason." So maybe cliches can be good at evoking the more usual, while making more unusual stories of struggle harder to recognize. It also seems like some cliches go along with human fascination with sensational stuff. So there's that, too.

OK, that's way more than enough from me. Would love to hear your thoughts if you have another listen to Breakdown.

[Edited 1/3/21 10:28am]

wildgoldenhoney said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Q: on breakdown when he sings "first one intoxicated, last one to leave,” does anyone actually believe that's prince, or is he singing in character? Was prince someone to get drunk at parties? Tbh I wonder if a lot of the apparent honesty or regret in AOA is kinda false, or generic kind of 'safe' supposedly personal sentiment, or just so clouded as prince does often, that who would know. Prince obv has some incidents with wines but a big public drinker? Nope Never wanted a trophy wife? C'mon, most of his girlfriends were trophy girls. ''"Im sick and tired of playing hard to get With an animal that's half my age" Urm I dont need to point out the obvious evidence to the contrary here "Any person or object whatsoever That requires your attention Is something that has veered From its path And preordained destiny Of total enlightenment" This seems like a Buddhist belief. But it doesnt quite fit with the reasons a person would want to become a popular entertainer. Unless its prince saying he should never have gone that route. "There's so many reasons why I don't belong here" This sounds like fatalism,but could be just disbelief that he made it despite his insecure childhood. "Most people in this world are born dead But I was born alive" This seems like sacrifice of victor style, blues style myth making and boasting.

Good question about the intoxication, made me think that it's now figurative.. "First one intoxicated, last one to leave Waking up in places that you would never believe" Now that I think about it, he's probably talking about intoxicated emotionally, waking up in different women's beds. Not sure where you were going with the rest of your thoughts though.

This could also be taken to mean achieving fame and it's 'intoxicating' effects on ones life. When he was young and an unknown gifted musician in Minneapolis he was surrounded by other musicians that all wanted the same thing- to become famous. He was the 'first one' to achieve that and he brought along most of his friends to the 'party'. He was the 'last one to leave', meaning he was still a famous musician while the others had somewhat disappeared from the public eye, hence 'last one to leave'. 'Waking up in places that you would never believe' could point towards all of the battles with record companies, defending himself in lawsuits, divorces, etc. It's all open for interpretation.

I actually think his lyrics are straighforward in this song, xcept for the "wall." That lyric seems to engender many interpretations.

Margot said:

I actually think his lyrics are straighforward in this song, xcept for the "wall." That lyric seems to engender many interpretations.

-

When it comes to written songs for or about Susannah,

the lyrics nearly always engender interpretations.

That's what I'm starting to sense.

-

The more real love involved, the more riddles and mysteries, layers.

I mean, the deeper you are in losing someone, the harder it is to convey anything to the world in clear words.

imho of course

-

Vannormal said:

Margot said:

I actually think his lyrics are straighforward in this song, xcept for the "wall." That lyric seems to engender many interpretations.

-

When it comes to written songs for or about Susannah,

the lyrics nearly always engender interpretations.

That's what I'm starting to sense.

-

The more real love involved, the more riddles and mysteries, layers.

I mean, the deeper you are in losing someone, the harder it is to convey anything to the world in clear words.

imho of course

-

Many of his songs are shrouded and metaphoric...

I, though, interpret this song fairly literally. He seemed sorry for past actions, realized the emptiness of earlier values and was attempting to change and was tearful it may be too late. "Give me back the time, you can keep the memories." He cried when he sang this in 2013 (Montreux)

I think something was up.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

He was rich and entitled. This enabled an uneven balance in his relationships A balance that he, from what I've heard, quite relished This is also a guy who I think, didnt even do xmas He worked to avoid a lot of unpleasant things Bring controlling is one thing, being allowed to be that controlling is never healthy He couldnt Express his feelings, and not having to try, didn't help I think it crippled him in fact Wpuldnt be surprised if in that final year, the death of vanity made him reach for his pain killers even more to block those feelings [Edited 12/2/20 6:29am]

Interesting! Never thought about this but totally makes sense.

srodaz said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

He was rich and entitled. This enabled an uneven balance in his relationships A balance that he, from what I've heard, quite relished This is also a guy who I think, didnt even do xmas He worked to avoid a lot of unpleasant things Bring controlling is one thing, being allowed to be that controlling is never healthy He couldnt Express his feelings, and not having to try, didn't help I think it crippled him in fact Wpuldnt be surprised if in that final year, the death of vanity made him reach for his pain killers even more to block those feelings [b][Edited 12/2/20 6:29am][/b

Pretty superficial analysis.

This has been discussed ad infinitum by many orgers over a 2-year period. There was much more going on though Vanity's death didn't help.