muleFunk said:

rednblue said:

Bone-on-bone.

Do you know if there was anything Prince could turn to (opiate pain relievers or otherwise) that could do anything to alleviate the pain when it had become that severe?

I told people after his passing that he had problems beyond what was known.

-

Don't forget, that unhuman jehova shit could've messed up a lot too - these ultra creepy freaks had him in their grip.

I wonder, did Larry know he was in such pain and needed a replacement ?

Would he supported a friend in need on that level ? Beyond those stupid religious restrictions ?

An operation with blood transfusions ?

-

Vannormal said:

muleFunk said:

I told people after his passing that he had problems beyond what was known.

-

Don't forget, that unhuman jehova shit could've messed up a lot too - these ultra creepy freaks had him in their grip.

I wonder, did Larry know he was in such pain and needed a replacement ?

Would he supported a friend in need on that level ? Beyond those stupid religious restrictions ?

An operation with blood transfusions ?

-

• He had hip surgery in 2010
• Back in 2010, when a patient had hip surgery, the doctor attached a device called a hemovac to the incision which caught the excess drainage from the incision. The drainage did not usually exceed 20 ounces/1 pint. It was then re-transfused into the patient thereby avoiding the need for a transfusion. I am a nurse and have cared for many of these patients
• There is also a blood-like substance which is sanctioned by JW's which can be used instead of blood.
• Once again, he was walking with a brisk stride, with no limping, on the last video 4/20.
• There were other problems, not hip.

Margot said:

• There were other problems, not hip.

.

Such as?

Margot said:

Vannormal said:

-

Don't forget, that unhuman jehova shit could've messed up a lot too - these ultra creepy freaks had him in their grip.

I wonder, did Larry know he was in such pain and needed a replacement ?

Would he supported a friend in need on that level ? Beyond those stupid religious restrictions ?

An operation with blood transfusions ?

-

• He had hip surgery in 2010
• Back in 2010, when a patient had hip surgery, the doctor attached a device called a hemovac to the incision which caught the excess drainage from the incision. The drainage did not usually exceed 20 ounces/1 pint. It was then re-transfused into the patient thereby avoiding the need for a transfusion. I am a nurse and have cared for many of these patients
• There is also a blood-like substance which is sanctioned by JW's which can be used instead of blood.
• Once again, he was walking with a brisk stride, with no limping, on the last video 4/20.
• There were other problems, not hip.

are you referring to the HIV & AIDS allegations?

RJOrion said:

Margot said:

• He had hip surgery in 2010
• Back in 2010, when a patient had hip surgery, the doctor attached a device called a hemovac to the incision which caught the excess drainage from the incision. The drainage did not usually exceed 20 ounces/1 pint. It was then re-transfused into the patient thereby avoiding the need for a transfusion. I am a nurse and have cared for many of these patients
• There is also a blood-like substance which is sanctioned by JW's which can be used instead of blood.
• Once again, he was walking with a brisk stride, with no limping, on the last video 4/20.
• There were other problems, not hip.

are you referring to the HIV & AIDS allegations?

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

RJOrion said:

are you referring to the HIV & AIDS allegations?

I will just say it was likely an illness that caused weight loss, wasting etc.

It is a touchy subject here, so that is all I will say.

[Edited 11/6/20 11:09am]

Margot said:

Vannormal said:

-

Don't forget, that unhuman jehova shit could've messed up a lot too - these ultra creepy freaks had him in their grip.

I wonder, did Larry know he was in such pain and needed a replacement ?

Would he supported a friend in need on that level ? Beyond those stupid religious restrictions ?

An operation with blood transfusions ?

-

• He had hip surgery in 2010
• Back in 2010, when a patient had hip surgery, the doctor attached a device called a hemovac to the incision which caught the excess drainage from the incision. The drainage did not usually exceed 20 ounces/1 pint. It was then re-transfused into the patient thereby avoiding the need for a transfusion. I am a nurse and have cared for many of these patients
• There is also a blood-like substance which is sanctioned by JW's which can be used instead of blood.
• Once again, he was walking with a brisk stride, with no limping, on the last video 4/20.
• There were other problems, not hip.

-

Oh well thank you !

I did not know that. There goes my big mouth.

And,

'other problems' you say ?

-

Not this. Again.

Vannormal said:

Margot said:

• He had hip surgery in 2010
• Back in 2010, when a patient had hip surgery, the doctor attached a device called a hemovac to the incision which caught the excess drainage from the incision. The drainage did not usually exceed 20 ounces/1 pint. It was then re-transfused into the patient thereby avoiding the need for a transfusion. I am a nurse and have cared for many of these patients
• There is also a blood-like substance which is sanctioned by JW's which can be used instead of blood.
• Once again, he was walking with a brisk stride, with no limping, on the last video 4/20.
• There were other problems, not hip.

-

Oh well thank you !

I did not know that. There goes my big mouth.

And,

'other problems' you say ?

-

No worries, I just wanted to share my experience to allay fears. It is scary to most people that the JW's don't believe in blood transfusions.

One more thing I forgot to mention is that many people who had hip surgery back then would come in 2-3 months pre-surgery and 'give' their own blood. It would be ready for the surgery in case it was needed. They have made great strides in hip replacements today so that many are discharged the same day with very little blood loss etc.

Prince was a VIP and I'm certain their were many safeguards in place.

laytonian said:

purplethunder3121 said:

He wasn't old enough for a midlife crisis in the 90s...

He was 40 in 1998. That's midlife, folks.

I can confirm this I hated turning 40 recently, and I didn't think of myself as all that shallow. Purplethunder3121 is correct - it probably isn't strictly mid-life, especially now that we're all living longer, but it's an age at which society no longer allows you to consider yourself young. It seems to represent some kind of threshold in people's minds. Personally I didn't notice any significant physical signs of ageing until the age of 38, but after that it was pretty rapid.

I'd usually dismiss a topic like this, but Prince exhibited a few signs in my view. Marrying a girl half his age is perhaps a big one... refusing to count birthdays. In anyone else it would be considered comical. He himself spoke of his displeasure at turning 40 if I recall.

That said, a big part of a mid-life crisis is often dissatisfaction with your achievements to date (unfulfilled ambitions etc) and Prince could never have suffered that moment, at least in terms of his life's work.

Personally, I wouldn’t read anything into the creative decisions that he made, like appropriating rap etc – I think that it was just strategic (but ill-judged in my opinion). Miles Davis did an equivalent thing in his 40s with his electric period, and that represents some of his best work for me. I’ve never accepted the view that there’s some kind of cut-off to creativity as we age. It’s often the case that people expend their creative energies and lose their way creatively because that’s just a common course of an artist's life, but it isn’t necessarily so. Samuel Beckett didn’t really get going as a writer until his 40s and 50s (the stuff before then is comparatively weak), and after a period of creative stalemate reached another peak in his 70s. Picasso was innovative pretty much throughout his life. George Clinton shamelessly pinches stuff from every generation and never ceases to be cool. Any creative mistakes that Prince made I'd put down to being a bit isolated and introverted - he would have benefitted from having more equals around him who were unafraid to challenge him.

fen said:

laytonian said:

He was 40 in 1998. That's midlife, folks.

I can confirm this I hated turning 40 recently, and I didn't think of myself as all that shallow. Purplethunder3121 is correct - it probably isn't strictly mid-life, especially now that we're all living longer, but it's an age at which society no longer allows you to consider yourself young. It seems to represent some kind of threshold in people's minds. Personally I didn't notice any significant physical signs of ageing until the age of 38, but after that it was pretty rapid.

I'd usually dismiss a topic like this, but Prince exhibited a few signs in my view. Marrying a girl half his age is perhaps a big one... refusing to count birthdays. In anyone else it would be considered comical. He himself spoke of his displeasure at turning 40 if I recall.

That said, a big part of a mid-life crisis is often dissatisfaction with your achievements to date (unfulfilled ambitions etc) and Prince could never have suffered that moment, at least in terms of his life's work.

Be reassured that turning 40 is nothing--it is a day past 39. No difference. The big changes come past 50. It's all relative, isn't it.

[Edited 11/6/20 21:25pm]

That said, a big part of a mid-life crisis is often dissatisfaction with your achievements to date (unfulfilled ambitions etc) and Prince could never have suffered that moment, at least in terms of his life's work.

you think? i wouldnt be surprised if he did have some regrets etc.

just think how many times he stopped performing certain songs, or changed lyrics, etc.

im sure he thought there were things that were perfectly good and great that he later thought he 'shouldn't have done.

he seemed to go through a lot of phases trying to curtail one aspect of himself or another.

purplethunder3121 said:

fen said:

I can confirm this I hated turning 40 recently, and I didn't think of myself as all that shallow. Purplethunder3121 is correct - it probably isn't strictly mid-life, especially now that we're all living longer, but it's an age at which society no longer allows you to consider yourself young. It seems to represent some kind of threshold in people's minds. Personally I didn't notice any significant physical signs of ageing until the age of 38, but after that it was pretty rapid.

I'd usually dismiss a topic like this, but Prince exhibited a few signs in my view. Marrying a girl half his age is perhaps a big one... refusing to count birthdays. In anyone else it would be considered comical. He himself spoke of his displeasure at turning 40 if I recall.

That said, a big part of a mid-life crisis is often dissatisfaction with your achievements to date (unfulfilled ambitions etc) and Prince could never have suffered that moment, at least in terms of his life's work.

Be reassured that turning 40 is nothing--it is a day past 39. No difference. The big changes come past 50. It's all relative, isn't it.

[Edited 11/6/20 21:25pm]

Very true. I remember being chatted up by some young girl who'd taken a shine to me in a local bar once, and when I told her my age she gasped "God, you're really old!". I was barely 34. Considering how quickly my 30s seemed to pass I'm developing a strong sense of the tragi-comic nature of it all. "...nothing of any note till coming up to sixty when-...what?...seventy?...good God!" Not I, S.Beckett

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

That said, a big part of a mid-life crisis is often dissatisfaction with your achievements to date (unfulfilled ambitions etc) and Prince could never have suffered that moment, at least in terms of his life's work.

you think? i wouldnt be surprised if he did have some regrets etc.

just think how many times he stopped performing certain songs, or changed lyrics, etc.

im sure he thought there were things that were perfectly good and great that he later thought he 'shouldn't have done.

he seemed to go through a lot of phases trying to curtail one aspect of himself or another.

General regrets and the changing of perspectives as we age are something different though, aren't they? I'm talking about a full-blown existential crisis regarding the whole trajectory of a person's life - at its worst that's what a mid-life crisis is. It's not necessarily an entirely negative thing either, since it can prompt change. I don't think that Prince would ever have seriously questioned the central choices that he made though.

[Edited 11/7/20 9:59am]

fen said:

It's not necessarily an entirely negative thing either, since it can prompt change.

An old friend of mine has just quit a £1,000,000+ city salary, bought a place in Alaska and retrained as a wood furniture designer.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

That said, a big part of a mid-life crisis is often dissatisfaction with your achievements to date (unfulfilled ambitions etc) and Prince could never have suffered that moment, at least in terms of his life's work.

you think? i wouldnt be surprised if he did have some regrets etc.

just think how many times he stopped performing certain songs, or changed lyrics, etc.

im sure he thought there were things that were perfectly good and great that he later thought he 'shouldn't have done.

he seemed to go through a lot of phases trying to curtail one aspect of himself or another.

Even before his JW conversion, there was a theme of Prince trying to wrestle with a certain part of himself; the part that did not 'please God.' I think he struggled with certain urges that many of us don't have (to that degree)

yes i was listening to a 97 show recently as i never caught that tour (it never came to the UK) and was surprised when he apologises for one song/lyric (cant remember which). he was still cursing but you can definitely hear some doubts when hes saying certain things (also quite a bit of serious god talk). even more so during the 2004 tour. you def get the sense he lost that conviction in what he was about or believed.

[Edited 11/7/20 9:00am]

fen said:

on that note, i was listening to all the albums he put out in 2014 and it was really quite dissapointing. obviously there were some good songs, some nice instrumental moments, but it often felt so forced. like he was STILL trying to come up with some modern bangers and so on. just, WHY prince WHY?! silly to still be trying to compete with 20 somethings when youre almost 60.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

on that note, i was listening to all the albums he put out in 2014 and it was really quite dissapointing. obviously there were some good songs, some nice instrumental moments, but it often felt so forced. like he was STILL trying to come up with some modern bangers and so on. just, WHY prince WHY?! silly to still be trying to compete with 20 somethings when youre almost 60.

I don't think he was feeling his best in 2014.

fen said:

Personally, I wouldn’t read anything into the creative decisions that he made, like appropriating rap etc – I think that it was just strategic (but ill-judged in my opinion). Miles Davis did an equivalent thing in his 40s with his electric period, and that represents some of his best work for me. I’ve never accepted the view that there’s some kind of cut-off to creativity as we age. It’s often the case that people expend their creative energies and lose their way creatively because that’s just a common course of an artist's life, but it isn’t necessarily so. Samuel Beckett didn’t really get going as a writer until his 40s and 50s (the stuff before then is comparatively weak), and after a period of creative stalemate reached another peak in his 70s. Picasso was innovative pretty much throughout his life. George Clinton shamelessly pinches stuff from every generation and never ceases to be cool. Any creative mistakes that Prince made I'd put down to being a bit isolated and introverted - he would have benefitted from having more equals around him who were unafraid to challenge him.

-

Oh, I totally agree.

In fact, a creative process has nothing to do with age.

About what is important with 'instant success' - I don't remember who or where, but I read an article somewhere about the pros and cons of success in the lives of all kinds of artists (which turned out to be different even for men and women).

The sooner it comes, the greater the public's expectations and recognitions are.

It is often being received by a very young public first.

Success can be repeated. But it will always be weighed again and thus differently with what was achieved before.

For example, if success comes from innovation, it is often viewed by the public as a competitive victory over what is currently going on.

It is a kind of mass appreciation of the instant 'new', but not immediately on the quality. (Damn, I have to find that article again.)

But to answer the bold part of your answer; 'I'd put down to being a bit isolated and introverted' Isolated; I do not fully agree. Many isolated artists have made tremendous achievements in life, and the same is true for those who are the introvert. Sure Prince was a bit of both, but for me it was something else.

-

I believe that he worked so hard to make sure what he could do best, to hide any insecurities (or weaknesses if you like) and his inner complexes.

For example a self-righteous song like 'My Name Is Prince' ?!

That lyric is pretty boastful in many ways, even beyond the sense of humor, should it be the case.

I believe he wrote that at the time (when he was upon his second succesful wave) like as if this song was an answer to the new musical developments that occured.

It was obvious that he wasn't the game changer anymore.

We all know he had a very turbulent childhood with possible very divided parental love and shifting structures.

He's also this quintessential American Dream boy, a self-made young fellow, tremendously driven, with extraordinarily self tought and developed skills, his particular staunch belief in music making.

And in addition, what a character!

And the fact that he was so cute and goodlooking - it is a fact that those kind of people always have some advatages.

He had trouble believing in people, learning to trust them - he himself said that over and over.

From an early age he had too much freedom to do what he wanted.

Knowing that it is very difficult to make room for imposed or even collaborative creativity.
Especially after you have tasted that quickly acquired freedom?

I mean, that's quite a serious burden on the shoulders of a young twenties.

And on top of that, all that money and the possibility to make endless plans.

When he built Paisley Park, etc, Actually, PP didn't always run that well.

He had to tour a lot, play the hits, make money and keep his lifestyle up to standard.

Regularly firing his entourage, accounts, managers, lawyers, etc.

The man has accomplished an awful lot in his life, but just couldn't bear to listen to others.

Perhaps that's why after The Revolution he supposedly wanted to surround himself safely with only people who wouldn't get in his way.

But we often have the guesswork with this particularly complex purple fella.

That's what makes it so interesting, of course. (All in my humble opinon). -

-

[Edited 11/8/20 1:26am]

Margot said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

Margot said: From what I was told, it was 2011 in LA. Had his stomach pumped at Cedars-Sinai and almost died then. One of the reasons of his eventual falling out with Sheila.

Sorry, yes, 2011.

I wasn't aware of this.

TrcikyChristopher said:

From what I was told, it was 2011 in LA. Had his stomach pumped at Cedars-Sinai and almost died then. One of the reasons of his eventual falling out with Sheila.

.

I.e.:

She knew.

She confronted him and he did not budge.

?

I am going to get rid of the whole (mid-life) part of this question, as we will all never quite agree when that is. And, I am from Prince's generation, so there's that.

His most dire crisis in my opinion only, was when he lost his son, followed quickly by the miscarriage. You have to move on somehow, but my Lord in heaven..........................everything that happened later on was tinged by these events.

Vannormal said:

fen said:

Personally, I wouldn’t read anything into the creative decisions that he made, like appropriating rap etc – I think that it was just strategic (but ill-judged in my opinion). Miles Davis did an equivalent thing in his 40s with his electric period, and that represents some of his best work for me. I’ve never accepted the view that there’s some kind of cut-off to creativity as we age. It’s often the case that people expend their creative energies and lose their way creatively because that’s just a common course of an artist's life, but it isn’t necessarily so. Samuel Beckett didn’t really get going as a writer until his 40s and 50s (the stuff before then is comparatively weak), and after a period of creative stalemate reached another peak in his 70s. Picasso was innovative pretty much throughout his life. George Clinton shamelessly pinches stuff from every generation and never ceases to be cool. Any creative mistakes that Prince made I'd put down to being a bit isolated and introverted - he would have benefitted from having more equals around him who were unafraid to challenge him.

-

Oh, I totally agree.

In fact, a creative process has nothing to do with age.

About what is important with 'instant success' - I don't remember who or where, but I read an article somewhere about the pros and cons of success in the lives of all kinds of artists (which turned out to be different even for men and women).

The sooner it comes, the greater the public's expectations and recognitions are.

It is often being received by a very young public first.

Success can be repeated. But it will always be weighed again and thus differently with what was achieved before.

For example, if success comes from innovation, it is often viewed by the public as a competitive victory over what is currently going on.

It is a kind of mass appreciation of the instant 'new', but not immediately on the quality. (Damn, I have to find that article again.)

But to answer the bold part of your answer; 'I'd put down to being a bit isolated and introverted' Isolated; I do not fully agree. Many isolated artists have made tremendous achievements in life, and the same is true for those who are the introvert. Sure Prince was a bit of both, but for me it was something else.

-

I believe that he worked so hard to make sure what he could do best, to hide any insecurities (or weaknesses if you like) and his inner complexes.

For example a self-righteous song like 'My Name Is Prince' ?!

That lyric is pretty boastful in many ways, even beyond the sense of humor, should it be the case.

I believe he wrote that at the time (when he was upon his second succesful wave) like as if this song was an answer to the new musical developments that occured.

It was obvious that he wasn't the game changer anymore.

We all know he had a very turbulent childhood with possible very divided parental love and shifting structures.

He's also this quintessential American Dream boy, a self-made young fellow, tremendously driven, with extraordinarily self tought and developed skills, his particular staunch belief in music making.

And in addition, what a character!

And the fact that he was so cute and goodlooking - it is a fact that those kind of people always have some advatages.

He had trouble believing in people, learning to trust them - he himself said that over and over.

From an early age he had too much freedom to do what he wanted.

Knowing that it is very difficult to make room for imposed or even collaborative creativity.
Especially after you have tasted that quickly acquired freedom?

I mean, that's quite a serious burden on the shoulders of a young twenties.

And on top of that, all that money and the possibility to make endless plans.

When he built Paisley Park, etc, Actually, PP didn't always run that well.

He had to tour a lot, play the hits, make money and keep his lifestyle up to standard.

Regularly firing his entourage, accounts, managers, lawyers, etc.

The man has accomplished an awful lot in his life, but just couldn't bear to listen to others.

Perhaps that's why after The Revolution he supposedly wanted to surround himself safely with only people who wouldn't get in his way.

But we often have the guesswork with this particularly complex purple fella.

That's what makes it so interesting, of course. (All in my humble opinon). -

-

[Edited 11/8/20 1:26am]

Enjoyed both of your posts.

I think there might be something about not being around enough equals; people he could have trusted and listened to. When he was a younger man, he collaborated with equals.

I can understand the need to develop into the boss, but it might have gone too far.

Many celebrities can count on spouses to keep it real.

Seahorsie said:

I am going to get rid of the whole (mid-life) part of this question, as we will all never quite agree when that is. And, I am from Prince's generation, so there's that.

His most dire crisis in my opinion only, was when he lost his son, followed quickly by the miscarriage. You have to move on somehow, but my Lord in heaven..........................everything that happened later on was tinged by these events.

Always enjoy your posts. They are a treat and show such compassion for Prince.

Seahorsie said: