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Thread started 10/11/20 7:36am

homesquid

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I Prefer The Liberal Androgynous Love4OneAnother Prince To Mack Daddy Prince

SOTT SD has made me fall deeply in love with the man's music and even the persona he had at the time. From 1978 thru Graffiti Bridge Prince was an open-minded, multi-racial, spiritual, colorful, sexually nonjudgemental, playful, vulnerable, unrestrained, inspired genius.

Then came Hip Hop. Soon after Prince started exhibiting a more macho "mack daddy", I'm that n*gga persona, angry, slave, which oddly lead to a religiously dogmatic penultimate act and a somewhat lost and lonely end. I never stopped liking his music but the magic of 1978-1990 was never the same. I know there are hundreds of fans here who know what I'm talking about.

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Reply #1 posted 10/11/20 7:57am

AvocadosMax

“Why can't they love me 4 what I am
Instead of what they want me 2 be?”
—P
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Reply #2 posted 10/11/20 8:15am

homesquid

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AvocadosMax said:

“Why can't they love me 4 what I am Instead of what they want me 2 be?” —P

"Because what they want u 2 b is what you said that u were" -H

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Reply #3 posted 10/11/20 8:47am

OperatingTheta
n

I don't agree with your assessment of Prince's final years as I feel he was reemerging creatively and distancing himself from the strict dogma and interpretations of the JW faith.


There definitely was a shift from 1990 onwards though. Prior to that, Prince seemed to be channeling the 'Mack Daddy' persona through The Time, particularly Morris Day, and from 91 onward seemed to adjust into embracing it publically himself. This may have been due to personal issues, commercial interests, creative expansion or something else, but I think it was always an aspect of him, just not personally and outwardly displayed until the 90s.
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Reply #4 posted 10/11/20 8:59am

CharismaDove

OperatingThetan said:

I don't agree with your assessment of Prince's final years as I feel he was reemerging creatively and distancing himself from the strict dogma and interpretations of the JW faith.


There definitely was a shift from 1990 onwards though. Prior to that, Prince seemed to be channeling the 'Mack Daddy' persona through The Time, particularly Morris Day, and from 91 onward seemed to adjust into embracing it publically himself. This may have been due to personal issues, commercial interests, creative expansion or something else, but I think it was always an aspect of him, just not personally and outwardly displayed until the 90s.


Exactly. “Chocolate”, “Movie Star”, “Jerk Out”, “Bob George”. The live shows in the ‘80s had a looot of pimp daddy posturing/energy. And in the ‘90s he was still dropping pleny of peace-love-n-sex anthems
[Edited 10/11/20 9:00am]
Maybe eye do, just not like eye did before pimp2
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Reply #5 posted 10/11/20 9:01am

onlyforaminute

Everytime I hear things like this I hear in the back of my mind "U never would have drank my coffee if I had never served U cream" That is all.
If you carry the egg basket do not dance.

Do good, then throw it into the sea.

#octavia tried to tell us
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Reply #6 posted 10/11/20 9:16am

TKO

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I agree brother. It's funny because he represents freedom of expression and sexuality more than he even intended to.

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Reply #7 posted 10/11/20 9:17am

KoolEaze

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I think what you´re saying does make sense if we look at his image ca. Diamonds and Pearls and all the way until the mid to late 90s but he changed again so many times after that phase.

This being said, I think he should´ve just stayed true to himself during that late 80s, early 90s phase because most rappers had huge respect for him anyway, regardless of how effeminate or androgynous his image was. And those who didn´t respect him in the first place or mocked him were not to be convinced by his forays into rap anyway.

Maxwell for instance changed his sound a bit over the years but he still maintained that rather vulnerable, soft, romantic image without creating a tough guy image and it worked and still works for him.

But then again, Prince always incorporated other current genres into his own sound so it was probably inevitable that he´d do what he did since rap had become so ubiqutous and omnipresent.

Was it really necessary? I don´t think so.

The HipHop community always respected him for what he was before he picked up rap influences at an age where most rappers get bored with rap and look for a change in their music, be it rock, reggae or electro, see Ice-T ´s Bodycount or Mos Def´s attempts at Rock music and singing.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #8 posted 10/11/20 10:45am

Mintchip

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OperatingThetan said:

I don't agree with your assessment of Prince's final years as I feel he was reemerging creatively and distancing himself from the strict dogma and interpretations of the JW faith. There definitely was a shift from 1990 onwards though. Prior to that, Prince seemed to be channeling the 'Mack Daddy' persona through The Time, particularly Morris Day, and from 91 onward seemed to adjust into embracing it publically himself. This may have been due to personal issues, commercial interests, creative expansion or something else, but I think it was always an aspect of him, just not personally and outwardly displayed until the 90s.



Maybe, but remember how playful and fun loving The Time was.

Compare that energy to what Prince is serving in something like "Sexy MF", where he lectures the girl on being smart and deep enough to get with him. When Morris does it, you love him for being a scamp. When Prince does it, he sounds deadly serious, like he's lost the plot.

Or "18 and Over", where he has no time to wink or flirt or ellude to anything; he's too busy describing the wheel barrow position. Maybe "Hi ho Silver, it's the Bone Ranger" could have been a joke in Morris' hands, but Prince makes you want to cringe.



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Reply #9 posted 10/11/20 12:25pm

ufoclub

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Mintchip said:

OperatingThetan said:

I don't agree with your assessment of Prince's final years as I feel he was reemerging creatively and distancing himself from the strict dogma and interpretations of the JW faith. There definitely was a shift from 1990 onwards though. Prior to that, Prince seemed to be channeling the 'Mack Daddy' persona through The Time, particularly Morris Day, and from 91 onward seemed to adjust into embracing it publically himself. This may have been due to personal issues, commercial interests, creative expansion or something else, but I think it was always an aspect of him, just not personally and outwardly displayed until the 90s.



Maybe, but remember how playful and fun loving The Time was.

Compare that energy to what Prince is serving in something like "Sexy MF", where he lectures the girl on being smart and deep enough to get with him. When Morris does it, you love him for being a scamp. When Prince does it, he sounds deadly serious, like he's lost the plot.

Or "18 and Over", where he has no time to wink or flirt or ellude to anything; he's too busy describing the wheel barrow position. Maybe "Hi ho Silver, it's the Bone Ranger" could have been a joke in Morris' hands, but Prince makes you want to cringe.



I kid you not. At an afterparty in Austin (during Jam of the Years days) Morris Hayes came over to my tall blonde female roommate and whispered in her ear for a while. A moment later he left (Prince was keeping his distance from the crowd on a floor above peering down). "What did he say to you?" we immediately shouted. She, trying to talk over the din, in her southern drawl with a puzzled look said, "Something about a wheelbarrow?"

I am not kidding.

But during the Diamonds and Pearls and Symbol album period, through Come and Gold, he did have his literal Tootsie Pop and cane and played the part of the pimp mack daddy. For sure. Seems like he dropped it for Emancipation onwards.

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Reply #10 posted 10/11/20 12:39pm

dodger

ufoclub said:



Mintchip said:




OperatingThetan said:


I don't agree with your assessment of Prince's final years as I feel he was reemerging creatively and distancing himself from the strict dogma and interpretations of the JW faith. There definitely was a shift from 1990 onwards though. Prior to that, Prince seemed to be channeling the 'Mack Daddy' persona through The Time, particularly Morris Day, and from 91 onward seemed to adjust into embracing it publically himself. This may have been due to personal issues, commercial interests, creative expansion or something else, but I think it was always an aspect of him, just not personally and outwardly displayed until the 90s.




Maybe, but remember how playful and fun loving The Time was.

Compare that energy to what Prince is serving in something like "Sexy MF", where he lectures the girl on being smart and deep enough to get with him. When Morris does it, you love him for being a scamp. When Prince does it, he sounds deadly serious, like he's lost the plot.

Or "18 and Over", where he has no time to wink or flirt or ellude to anything; he's too busy describing the wheel barrow position. Maybe "Hi ho Silver, it's the Bone Ranger" could have been a joke in Morris' hands, but Prince makes you want to cringe.











I kid you not. At an afterparty in Austin (during Jam of the Years days) Morris Hayes came over to my tall blonde female roommate and whispered in her ear for a while. A moment later he left (Prince was keeping his distance from the crowd on a floor above peering down). "What did he say to you?" we immediately shouted. She, trying to talk over the din, in her southern drawl with a puzzled look said, "Something about a wheelbarrow?"

I am not kidding.

But during the Diamonds and Pearls and Symbol album period, through Come and Gold, he did have his literal Tootsie Pop and cane and played the part of the pimp mack daddy. For sure. Seems like he dropped it for Emancipation onwards.



lol
I didn't take him as 'deadly serious' back then. I thought it was all a bit tongue in cheek and there was still humour there, in the lyrics (that bone ranger line, of course it was a joke!), live shows and videos
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Reply #11 posted 10/11/20 2:09pm

homesquid

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CharismaDove said:

OperatingThetan said:
I don't agree with your assessment of Prince's final years as I feel he was reemerging creatively and distancing himself from the strict dogma and interpretations of the JW faith. There definitely was a shift from 1990 onwards though. Prior to that, Prince seemed to be channeling the 'Mack Daddy' persona through The Time, particularly Morris Day, and from 91 onward seemed to adjust into embracing it publically himself. This may have been due to personal issues, commercial interests, creative expansion or something else, but I think it was always an aspect of him, just not personally and outwardly displayed until the 90s.
Exactly. “Chocolate”, “Movie Star”, “Jerk Out”, “Bob George”. The live shows in the ‘80s had a looot of pimp daddy posturing/energy. And in the ‘90s he was still dropping pleny of peace-love-n-sex anthems [Edited 10/11/20 9:00am]

We didn't know about "Chocolate", "Jerk Out" and "Movie Star" back then publicly. Sure, Morris Day was who he channeled his pimp mack daddy through.... but it wasn't the Prince I saw.

"Bob George" is not a pimp daddy song. In fact Bob was ragging on that "skinny motherfucker with the high voice" I'm talking about.

[Edited 10/11/20 14:09pm]

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Reply #12 posted 10/11/20 2:14pm

homesquid

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TKO said:

I agree brother. It's funny because he represents freedom of expression and sexuality more than he even intended to.

"Uptown"....Prince was liberating and all-inclusive. In touch with both sides of his sexuality even though he was unquestionably heterosexual (not that I would've cared if he wasn't). The man who wrote "If I Was Your Girlfriend" and "Anna Stesia" is not the same man who wrote "Hide The Bone" but like I said he was great all through his career. I'm just expressing the Prince I fell in love with. Even though I was a ripped sports jock who was popular with the ladies Prince really opened my mind with his music.

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Reply #13 posted 10/11/20 2:18pm

KoolEaze

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homesquid said:

TKO said:

I agree brother. It's funny because he represents freedom of expression and sexuality more than he even intended to.

"Uptown"....Prince was liberating and all-inclusive. In touch with both sides of his sexuality even though he was unquestionably heterosexual (not that I would've cared if he wasn't). The man who wrote "If I Was Your Girlfriend" and "Anna Stesia" is not the same man who wrote "Hide The Bone" but like I said he was great all through his career. I'm just expressing the Prince I fell in love with. Even though I was a ripped sports jock who was popular with the ladies Prince really opened my mind with his music.

I understand the point you´re trying to make and I agree with you (see my post above) but.......Prince did not write Hide the Bone. wink

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #14 posted 10/11/20 2:34pm

homesquid

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KoolEaze said:

homesquid said:

"Uptown"....Prince was liberating and all-inclusive. In touch with both sides of his sexuality even though he was unquestionably heterosexual (not that I would've cared if he wasn't). The man who wrote "If I Was Your Girlfriend" and "Anna Stesia" is not the same man who wrote "Hide The Bone" but like I said he was great all through his career. I'm just expressing the Prince I fell in love with. Even though I was a ripped sports jock who was popular with the ladies Prince really opened my mind with his music.

I understand the point you´re trying to make and I agree with you (see my post above) but.......Prince did not write Hide the Bone. wink

highfive

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Reply #15 posted 10/11/20 4:16pm

McD

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I don’t mind the influence rap culture had on him, but on any lesser talent the JW stuff would be unforgivable. His mind was mush on many a subject. Imagine certain other public figures doing that Tavis Smiley interview and how they would have fared afterwards. Also, sad to say, it perhaps didn’t hurt him much as he came across as so dumb it muffled the level of offence.
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Reply #16 posted 10/11/20 6:20pm

jdcxc

Ppl are underestimating what it takes to maintain an interesting 37 year career as a Pop Artist...it is has been rarely done in the history of music. And I followed P throughout all those years and at his core he always remained the iconoclastic, revolutionary and independent artist he was from Day 1.

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Reply #17 posted 10/11/20 6:28pm

jdcxc

KoolEaze said:

homesquid said:

"Uptown"....Prince was liberating and all-inclusive. In touch with both sides of his sexuality even though he was unquestionably heterosexual (not that I would've cared if he wasn't). The man who wrote "If I Was Your Girlfriend" and "Anna Stesia" is not the same man who wrote "Hide The Bone" but like I said he was great all through his career. I'm just expressing the Prince I fell in love with. Even though I was a ripped sports jock who was popular with the ladies Prince really opened my mind with his music.

I understand the point you´re trying to make and I agree with you (see my post above) but.......Prince did not write Hide the Bone. wink


And it was written by a woman...interesting.

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Reply #18 posted 10/11/20 6:52pm

emesem

Yeah Prince’s gangsta act was cringe. Pimp rap tootsie pop can and gun mic. Ugh. He was getting older and no longer the hot thing. Every attempt to be hip just got worse as the years went on. Wasn’t until Rave that he seemed to give up on it but still had his moments of the being the old man at da club but in retrospect it was all good. Towards he end there he was embracing his role as wise elder. Would have been interesting to see where it went. I still think he had one more masterpiece in him.
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Reply #19 posted 10/11/20 8:01pm

jenet8701

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AGREE with you - I am just giggling at the term Mack daddy prince. I will forever think of that when I see him in this phase now 😂 thank you!! 😊
“The only love there is is the love we make.” 💜
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Reply #20 posted 10/12/20 12:44am

EmmaMcG

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There are two Prince "personas" I can't get on board with. His rap phase where he was making music that I didn't much care for. And his bible thumping phase which is just ridiculous. Everything else was great though.
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Reply #21 posted 10/12/20 8:59am

Margot

jdcxc said:

Ppl are underestimating what it takes to maintain an interesting 37 year career as a Pop Artist...it is has been rarely done in the history of music. And I followed P throughout all those years and at his core he always remained the iconoclastic, revolutionary and independent artist he was from Day 1.

Agree

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Reply #22 posted 10/15/20 11:19pm

lavendardrumma
chine

I prefer lacey fey Prince in ascot and silk pajamas over butch designer zoot suit chain mail mask Prince but I don't think the music is clear cut like that. It just happens I don't love the New Jack, overproduced songs as much.

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Reply #23 posted 10/16/20 11:21am

wilmer

Watching Prince from afar, I could say that Prince was fluent in a lot of stereotypical personas. He was no pimp but he could turn it on when he wanted to. He wasn't pansexual (not as far as I know), but he exuded that vibe at times. His personal life however belied that perception. He was fluent in standard English and in AAVE. He was a lot of things through his music. I just love it all. Who was Prince at the core though? My humble opinion is he was free.
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