MoodyBlumes said:

"And these letters he sent me after my Rolling Stone stories are my stocks and bonds... I'm waiting for him to die frankly, I am, because they're worth infinitely more... he is worth so much more than Bob Dylan, his signature. I was just at an autograph show and everyone was saying... 'wait 'til he dies'." - Neal Karlen, April 8, 2016

https://video.startribune...375081441/

[Edited 10/7/20 5:28am]

a 'friend' apparently?.... Jeeze.....

rednblue said:

LovePaisley said:

Margot said: Well, he did have 4 years to remember all this, talk with people, laugh and tell old stories. Yeah, I think Neal is for real. I did the YouTube live thing last night and it was awesome-- in its unique way. Neal is so earnest, so caught up in his feelings. Like he said, never finishes a sentence, has six conversations at once. Very open boundaries. I get why Prince liked him. Neal strikes me as a guy you can shoot the intellectual shit with for hours.

YES! to all of this. Love your description of his way with conversation.

Each person will make own judgment. Suggested on other thread, where some were asking who Neal is, that they can read some of his earlier articles and books. Should have also thought about interviews, etc. like the one you describe here. People can see what they think for themselves.

As for judgment about lies/truth, there are some things fans know directly, but a lot we simply don't know with "direct evidence" about lie vs. truth. If it's to be said about this book, it's to be said about most books.

I really enjoyed Mayte's book. I know that book said some things people didn't want to hear. Not wanting to hear something doesn't make it true or untrue. I'm one of those fans who has zero direct knowledge, but I appreciate these books.

As for talk of making money off of books, writing a book is not the thing to choose if the goal is big money.

Neal will make good coin on this one... trust. Wonder why his insurance wouldn't cover his apartment fire? Here is his April 2017 'Go Fund Me'... he raised $44,780.

.

Help Neal Get Back on His Feet!

https://www.gofundme.com/...n-his-feet

ThatWhiteDude said:

KoolEaze said:

See? That´s what I was referring to on that other thread. Thanks to MoodyBlumes for posting that quote because I only paraphrased it.

Dude won´t get a penny from me, I don´t care if he´s got regrets.

And how is he supposed to know that Susannah Melvoin was the only strong woman Prince had a relationship with if they hadn´t spoken in a long time? That´s probably wishful thinking on his behalf.

I can´t stand that guy. We´ve had several threads about him and his behaviour a couple of years ago.

I doubt that vanity wasn't a strong person. She comes across as a head strong person from the stories I've read about her. Also Mani, she has to be some sort of strong person to go through with the plan she had laid out. I can't think of any woman in his camp that isn't strong in my eyes. Hell, I think you had to be strong to keep up with his personality.

Absolutely agree!

For what it's worth, there is a point in the book when Karlen says that thinks the relationship with Susannah at the time was a big force with the potential to keep someone in Prince's position grounded, a sort of last opportunity. So that particular observation didn't say that those Prince dated before Susannah couldn't do the same.

But I totally agree that there's no way that Prince didn't have any romantic relationships with strong women after the late 1980's. There is just no way! And I also agree with you that I can think of particular women who seem very strong to me.

There is SO much insecurity in general about recognizing that there were times in the relationships when women were strong and Prince wasn't in the sense that he couldn't prevent himself from getting badly hurt. Prince expressed some of this hurt loudly and clearly in his music.

Prince was at "superhuman" levels as a musician, but that didn't mean he didn't get hurt in romantic relationships in a very human way.

From all I can see, Prince was romantically involved with many very strong women. He wasn't the cool free-love guy, because that means not losing your cool as both parties are able to play around. Over and over again, Prince wasn't able to keep from losing his cool and getting hurt badly when women took other lovers. My point is that this is just one example of when Prince wasn't strong. And goodness knows, nobody needs to be strong all the time to be admired. But the notion that Prince was incredibly strong and cool while most all of his romantic partners were weak. That's utterly ridiculous, IMO!

MoodyBlumes said:

rednblue said:

YES! to all of this. Love your description of his way with conversation.

Each person will make own judgment. Suggested on other thread, where some were asking who Neal is, that they can read some of his earlier articles and books. Should have also thought about interviews, etc. like the one you describe here. People can see what they think for themselves.

As for judgment about lies/truth, there are some things fans know directly, but a lot we simply don't know with "direct evidence" about lie vs. truth. If it's to be said about this book, it's to be said about most books.

I really enjoyed Mayte's book. I know that book said some things people didn't want to hear. Not wanting to hear something doesn't make it true or untrue. I'm one of those fans who has zero direct knowledge, but I appreciate these books.

As for talk of making money off of books, writing a book is not the thing to choose if the goal is big money.

Neal will make good coin on this one... trust. Wonder why his insurance wouldn't cover his apartment fire? Here is his April 2017 'Go Fund Me'... he raised $44,780.

.

Help Neal Get Back on His Feet!

https://www.gofundme.com/...n-his-feet

Can you please provide evidence of the large amounts of money that many Prince book authors have made off of writing about Prince?

I'm honestly happy to be proved wrong, but I need to see evidence of this potential via book proceeds.

In general, book writing has one of the lowest hourly pay rates around.

If you can list high pay rates for even a handful of the legions of Prince authors, I'll be impressed.

To ask again, can you provide these numbers you know about?

rednblue said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Neal will make good coin on this one... trust. Wonder why his insurance wouldn't cover his apartment fire? Here is his April 2017 'Go Fund Me'... he raised $44,780.

.

Help Neal Get Back on His Feet!

https://www.gofundme.com/...n-his-feet

Can you please provide evidence of the large amounts of money that many Prince book authors have made off of writing about Prince?

I'm honestly happy to be proved wrong, but I need to see evidence of this potential via book proceeds.

In general, book writing has one of the lowest hourly pay rates around.

If you can list high pay rates for even a handful of the legions of Prince authors, I'll be impressed.

To ask again, can you provide these numbers you know about?

Well 'rednblue', Neal Karlen isn't the hairdresser or a bodyguard. And I doubt Kim Berry was giving away locks of Prince's hair or his socks for free. It is noteworthy that Neal had no savings or insurance in 2017 when his apartment had fire.

[Edited 10/7/20 8:20am]

MoodyBlumes said:

rednblue said:

Can you please provide evidence of the large amounts of money that many Prince book authors have made off of writing about Prince?

I'm honestly happy to be proved wrong, but I need to see evidence of this potential via book proceeds.

In general, book writing has one of the lowest hourly pay rates around.

If you can list high pay rates for even a handful of the legions of Prince authors, I'll be impressed.

To ask again, can you provide these numbers you know about?

Well 'rednblue', Neal Karlen isn't the hairdresser or a bodyguard. And I doubt Kim Berry was giving away locks of Prince's hair or his socks for free. It is noteworthy that Neal had no savings or insurance in 2017 when his apartment had fire.

[Edited 10/7/20 8:20am]

Noted.

Can you provide what I asked about?

rednblue said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

KoolEaze said: I doubt that vanity wasn't a strong person. She comes across as a head strong person from the stories I've read about her. Also Mani, she has to be some sort of strong person to go through with the plan she had laid out. I can't think of any woman in his camp that isn't strong in my eyes. Hell, I think you had to be strong to keep up with his personality.

Absolutely agree!

For what it's worth, there is a point in the book when Karlen says that thinks the relationship with Susannah at the time was a big force with the potential to keep someone in Prince's position grounded, a sort of last opportunity. So that particular observation didn't say that those Prince dated before Susannah couldn't do the same.

But I totally agree that there's no way that Prince didn't have any romantic relationships with strong women after the late 1980's. There is just no way! And I also agree with you that I can think of particular women who seem very strong to me.

There is SO much insecurity in general about recognizing that there were times in the relationships when women were strong and Prince wasn't in the sense that he couldn't prevent himself from getting badly hurt. Prince expressed some of this hurt loudly and clearly in his music.

Prince was at "superhuman" levels as a musician, but that didn't mean he didn't get hurt in romantic relationships in a very human way.

From all I can see, Prince was romantically involved with many very strong women. He wasn't the cool free-love guy, because that means not losing your cool as both parties are able to play around. Over and over again, Prince wasn't able to keep from losing his cool and getting hurt badly when women took other lovers. My point is that this is just one example of when Prince wasn't strong. And goodness knows, nobody needs to be strong all the time to be admired. But the notion that Prince was incredibly strong and cool while most all of his romantic partners were weak. That's utterly ridiculous, IMO!

So why do you think Neal would paint him as such? Tamron Hall is a 'strong woman' who said Prince was her best friend and the only person she spoke more to was her mother. Here is her interview about their relationship -- https://www.youtube.com/w...pp=desktop

.

Prince hadn't been with Susannah for 30 years. And I recall her having a loan receivable on Prince's books at his death... she was auctioning off his leg warmers.

rednblue said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Well 'rednblue', Neal Karlen isn't the hairdresser or a bodyguard. And I doubt Kim Berry was giving away locks of Prince's hair or his socks for free. It is noteworthy that Neal had no savings or insurance in 2017 when his apartment had fire.

[Edited 10/7/20 8:20am]

Noted.

Can you provide what I asked about?

Believe you are the one who needs to provide the evidence. Professional writers are generally... paid. Neal Karlen isn't writing his book on Prince for free. Kim Berry or Wally Safford weren't getting coverage and promo in Rolling Stone.

[Edited 10/7/20 8:28am]

MoodyBlumes said:

rednblue said:

Can you please provide evidence of the large amounts of money that many Prince book authors have made off of writing about Prince?

I'm honestly happy to be proved wrong, but I need to see evidence of this potential via book proceeds.

In general, book writing has one of the lowest hourly pay rates around.

If you can list high pay rates for even a handful of the legions of Prince authors, I'll be impressed.

To ask again, can you provide these numbers you know about?

Well 'rednblue', Neal Karlen isn't the hairdresser or a bodyguard. And I doubt Kim Berry was giving away locks of Prince's hair or his socks for free. It is noteworthy that Neal had no savings or insurance in 2017 when his apartment had fire.

Please prove that he didn't have savings or insurance.

Genesia said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Well 'rednblue', Neal Karlen isn't the hairdresser or a bodyguard. And I doubt Kim Berry was giving away locks of Prince's hair or his socks for free. It is noteworthy that Neal had no savings or insurance in 2017 when his apartment had fire.

Please prove that he didn't have savings or insurance.

Here you go: https://www.gofundme.com/...n-his-feet

MoodyBlumes said:

Genesia said:

Please prove that he didn't have savings or insurance.

Here you go: https://www.gofundme.com/...n-his-feet

That's not proof. I read the page - and nowhere does it say he didn't have insurance or savings. Care to try again?

v10letblues said:

I did. He quoted the title to Mayte’s book wrong (again something very easy to verify) and mispronounced Mani's name. For me, strike, strike and strike, he's a professional journalist for godsakes. There are other things in listening like the sound of what's supposed to be his(the author's) voice in these recordings, they either sound like a completely different person, like Toure or somebody, or the voice is slowed down considerably in some cases, it's downright confusing. But hearing Prince's voice was very pleasurable to me even if there's tampering involved, which made it worth it to me for the moment.

Genesia said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Here you go: https://www.gofundme.com/...n-his-feet

That's not proof. I read the page - and nowhere does it say he didn't have insurance or savings. Care to try again?

If he had savings and insurance, and set up a Gofund me, raising $44,780, then what does that say about him? My parents home (not apartment) burned to the ground... and their insurance put them up into accommodation until they could get on their feet. A bed, couch, clothes, rent, food...for someone who works, with savings and insurance... how much do you think we're talking?

MoodyBlumes said:

rednblue said:

Absolutely agree!

For what it's worth, there is a point in the book when Karlen says that thinks the relationship with Susannah at the time was a big force with the potential to keep someone in Prince's position grounded, a sort of last opportunity. So that particular observation didn't say that those Prince dated before Susannah couldn't do the same.

But I totally agree that there's no way that Prince didn't have any romantic relationships with strong women after the late 1980's. There is just no way! And I also agree with you that I can think of particular women who seem very strong to me.

There is SO much insecurity in general about recognizing that there were times in the relationships when women were strong and Prince wasn't in the sense that he couldn't prevent himself from getting badly hurt. Prince expressed some of this hurt loudly and clearly in his music.

Prince was at "superhuman" levels as a musician, but that didn't mean he didn't get hurt in romantic relationships in a very human way.

From all I can see, Prince was romantically involved with many very strong women. He wasn't the cool free-love guy, because that means not losing your cool as both parties are able to play around. Over and over again, Prince wasn't able to keep from losing his cool and getting hurt badly when women took other lovers. My point is that this is just one example of when Prince wasn't strong. And goodness knows, nobody needs to be strong all the time to be admired. But the notion that Prince was incredibly strong and cool while most all of his romantic partners were weak. That's utterly ridiculous, IMO!

So why do you think Neal would paint him as such? Tamron Hall is a 'strong woman' who said Prince was her best friend and the only person she spoke more to was her mother. Here is her interview about their relationship -- https://www.youtube.com/w...pp=desktop

.

Prince hadn't been with Susannah for 30 years. And I recall her having a loan receivable on Prince's books at his death... she was auctioning off his leg warmers.

I took the particular passage I read as one characterizing romantic partners.

But either way, to say that Prince didn't have any women in his life post-80's with a ton of potential to help keep someone grounded is ridiculous.

I definitely take issue with some of what I've read in the book. But that's true of all the books I've read, and also of plenty of Prince's statements about other people, including some from P that came off as insecure and were frankly pretty terrible toward people who he'd been close to or had done a lot for him. P himself commented on his own striking ability to simply walk away from significant people in his life. P saying awful, unreasonable things about someone, or walking away (in the way he described himself as amazingly capable of doing), doesn't make that person nonsignifcant to P's life.

In the same vein, there are a few people in my own life who read a quote or two from Prince, concluded Prince treated people horribly, and now want nothing to do with Prince.

IMO, if people judge human beings that simply, it's their loss. Prince said some awful things. Neal said some awful things. We can call spades spades. But most humans have said awful things, and also been kind, nurturing, and cool. Prince was beyond brilliant to boot! He did incredibly kind things for people. As another example, I still want to hear from some people on the D and P tour, even though Rosie says she was treated horribly by some, and my instinct is to believe her. Like most fans I don't truly know what actually went down in the Prince camp. Fans do know that there have been many fabrications in the Prince world.

I'd rather hear from Prince and from the others, despite the fact that most humans have told some fibs, and most humans are far from perfect.

Hands down, my favorite "Prince-world" book purchase is The Beautiful Ones. To read Prince's words, and see those thoughts written out in his beautiful handwriting...breaks my heart that he wasn't able to write more chapters.

[Edited 10/7/20 9:58am]

MoodyBlumes said:

Genesia said:

That's not proof. I read the page - and nowhere does it say he didn't have insurance or savings. Care to try again?

If he had savings and insurance, and set up a Gofund me, raising $44,780, then what does that say about him? My parents home (not apartment) burned to the ground... and their insurance put them up into accommodation until they could get on their feet. A bed, couch, clothes, rent, food...for someone who works, with savings and insurance... how much do you think we're talking?

First of all, Neal didn't set up the GoFundMe - a friend did.

Your parents' experience has nothing to do with the situation. Maybe they have a lot of money. Maybe they were insured to the hilt. Who fucking cares? (I don't.)

But for the record, I have friends who lost their home to a fire - an actual house, total loss, blah blah blah. Other friends set up a GoFundMe for them - because there are things insurance doesn't cover. There might be a deductible, for example. And insurance often doesn't pay right away or cover full replacement value - so folks are out of pocket immediately.

Also, how much do you think journalists make? Let me help you (since I was one) - a lot less than you think. So it's entirely possible Neal didn't have much in savings. (Most people don't.) And that is absolutely none of your business. By the way - did you catch the part of the GoFundMe where it said he'd had cancer? Maybe that's why he didn't have sufficient savings to deal with his expenses following a fire.

You're pissed off about the book for some reason and clutching at anything you can to make your case. You're failing.

[Edited 10/7/20 9:11am]

MoodyBlumes said:

rednblue said:

Noted.

Can you provide what I asked about?

Believe you are the one who needs to provide the evidence. Professional writers are generally... paid. Neal Karlen isn't writing his book on Prince for free. Kim Berry or Wally Safford weren't getting coverage and promo in Rolling Stone.

[Edited 10/7/20 8:28am]

Are you saying you'd like me to post articles reflecting that book-writing is not one of the first places to turn when looking to make good money? I can do that if you want. I also know some authors of books about Prince who said they made far less per hour doing that book writing than they did in other jobs they needed to hold to be able to earn a living.

I'm asking for evidence of what you said will happen with this book. You said, "Neal will make good coin on this one... trust."

So again, please provide the evidence of this from the pay rate of some of the multiple Prince book authors of varied backgrounds.

Or does "good coin" commonly refer to a low pay rate?

rednblue said:

MoodyBlumes said:

So why do you think Neal would paint him as such? Tamron Hall is a 'strong woman' who said Prince was her best friend and the only person she spoke more to was her mother. Here is her interview about their relationship -- https://www.youtube.com/w...pp=desktop

.

Prince hadn't been with Susannah for 30 years. And I recall her having a loan receivable on Prince's books at his death... she was auctioning off his leg warmers.

I took the particular passage I read as one characterizing romantic partners.

But either way, to say that Prince didn't have any women in his life post-80's with a ton of potential to help keep someone grounded is ridiculous.

I definitely take issue with some of what I've read in the book. But that's true of all the books I've read, and also of plenty of Prince's statements about other people, including some from P that came off as insecure and were frankly pretty terrible toward people who he'd been close to or done a lot for. P himself commented on his own striking ability to simply walk away from significant people in his life. P saying awful, unreasonable things about someone, or walking away (in the way he described himself as amazingly capable of doing), doesn't make that person nonsignifcant to P's life.

In the same vein, there are a few people in my own life who read a quote or two from Prince, concluded Prince treated people horribly, and now want nothing to do with Prince.

IMO, if a person judges human beings that simply, it's their loss. Prince said some awful things. Neal said some awful things. We can call spades spades. But most humans have said awful things, and also been kind, nurturing, and cool. Prince was beyond brilliant to boot! He did incredibly kind things for people. As another example, I still want to hear from some people on the D and P tour, even though Rosie says she was treated horribly by some, and my instinct is to believe her. Like most fans I don't truly know what actually went down in the Prince camp. Fans do know that there have been many fabrications in the Prince world.

I'd rather hear from Prince and from the others, despite the fact that most humans have told some fibs, and most humans are far from perfect.

Hands down, my favorite "Prince-world" book purchase is The Beautiful Ones. To read Prince's words, and see those thoughts written out in his beautiful handwriting...breaks my heart that he wasn't able to write more chapters.

Yes, it is ridiculous... agree. So why would Neal do that? Susannah was a romantic partner 3+ decades ago... and she has admitted he was seeing other women. So she did 'take shit'... I don't judge her for it as she wanted to be with Prince. She still called him the lover of her life. But dismissing all the other women he was with as floozies, including his wives, strikes me as odd.

.

I don't know many people without relationship issues... family, friend, at work. That is life.

.

I also loved The Beautiful Ones... and have several copies. It is nice to hear about others who treasure it I also loved his writing style, the way he draws the reader in. Plus I loved the pictures... seeing those swirls on his mom's dress reminded me of the swirls on his costumes. I also appreciate the nuanced way he described his parents... the maturity of an older man.

rednblue said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Believe you are the one who needs to provide the evidence. Professional writers are generally... paid. Neal Karlen isn't writing his book on Prince for free. Kim Berry or Wally Safford weren't getting coverage and promo in Rolling Stone.

[Edited 10/7/20 8:28am]

Are you saying you'd like me to post articles reflecting that book-writing is not one of the first places to turn when looking to make good money? I can do that if you want. I also know some authors of books about Prince who said they made far less per hour doing that book writing than they did in other jobs they needed to hold to be able to earn a living.

I'm asking for evidence of what you said will happen with this book. You said, "Neal will make good coin on this one... trust."

So again, please provide the evidence of this from the pay rate of some of the multiple Prince book authors of varied backgrounds.

Or does "good coin" commonly refer to a low pay rate?

Neal isn't writing for free. If he doesn't make much money, then I will be happy. I haven't read the book but everything I have read about it doesn't sit well. And I was pro Neal when I first heard about the book. Here is an article on celebrity bios, which isn't quite the same, but Neal is being promoted as 'Prince's Biographer' yada yada. My guess is he is expecting to get paid. I am not comparing Neal with Kim Berry or Wally Safford, etc. although I believe they also expected to be well paid (even if they were not).

.

https://www.nydailynews.c...-1.1751111

Just parts of this article...

"There's big money in star memoirs."

.

MoodyBlumes said:

rednblue said:

Are you saying you'd like me to post articles reflecting that book-writing is not one of the first places to turn when looking to make good money? I can do that if you want. I also know some authors of books about Prince who said they made far less per hour doing that book writing than they did in other jobs they needed to hold to be able to earn a living.

I'm asking for evidence of what you said will happen with this book. You said, "Neal will make good coin on this one... trust."

So again, please provide the evidence of this from the pay rate of some of the multiple Prince book authors of varied backgrounds.

Or does "good coin" commonly refer to a low pay rate?

Neal isn't writing for free. If he doesn't make much money, then I will be happy. I haven't read the book but everything I have read about it doesn't sit well. And I was pro Neal when I first heard about the book. Here is an article on celebrity bios, which isn't quite the same, but Neal is being promoted as 'Prince's Biographer' yada yada. My guess is he is expecting to get paid. I am not comparing Neal with Kim Berry or Wally Safford, etc. although I believe they also expected to be well paid (even if they were not).

.

https://www.nydailynews.c...-1.1751111

Just parts of this article...

"There's big money in star memoirs."

.

"He's dating that boom to the publication of Keith Richards' blockbuster autobio, "Life." The guitarist's wild and witty book sold over 1 million copies, helping pay back a reported $7 million advance to the star.

Richards' success caused what book agent Sarah Lazin calls "a feeding frenzy. Publishers started looking for any star who has a clear fan base."

Small wonder book deals have recently been announced for Bryan Cranston, cashing in on the "Breaking Bad" craze, Lena Dunham, riding her "Girls" wave to the tune of a reported $3.5 million advance, and Flea, to recount his sex- and drug-fueled exploits with the Red Hot Chili Peppers."

.

"Autobios by Clapton, Steven Tyler, Nikki Sixx (plus Sixx's band, Motley Crue), Anthony Kiedis, Jay-Z, Bob Dylan and Patti Smith all sold robustly by industry standards — between 250,000 and 500,000 copies each, according to Ruby-Strauss. Smith's work, "Just Kids," which passed the half-million sales mark, according to BookScan, brought prestige to the genre by earning a National Book Award."

.

"Having a sense of humor also helps. Tina Fey enjoyed one of the industry's biggest successes with her 2011 autobio, "Bossypants." It has sold over 1 million copies. This has fueled interest in one from her old "Saturday Night Live" boss, Lorne Michaels. Piazza says such a tome could fetch an advance of $5 million."

Good grief. You don't even know the difference between a memoir and a biography.

Sit the fuck down already.

MoodyBlumes said:

rednblue said:

I took the particular passage I read as one characterizing romantic partners.

But either way, to say that Prince didn't have any women in his life post-80's with a ton of potential to help keep someone grounded is ridiculous.

I definitely take issue with some of what I've read in the book. But that's true of all the books I've read, and also of plenty of Prince's statements about other people, including some from P that came off as insecure and were frankly pretty terrible toward people who he'd been close to or done a lot for. P himself commented on his own striking ability to simply walk away from significant people in his life. P saying awful, unreasonable things about someone, or walking away (in the way he described himself as amazingly capable of doing), doesn't make that person nonsignifcant to P's life.

In the same vein, there are a few people in my own life who read a quote or two from Prince, concluded Prince treated people horribly, and now want nothing to do with Prince.

IMO, if a person judges human beings that simply, it's their loss. Prince said some awful things. Neal said some awful things. We can call spades spades. But most humans have said awful things, and also been kind, nurturing, and cool. Prince was beyond brilliant to boot! He did incredibly kind things for people. As another example, I still want to hear from some people on the D and P tour, even though Rosie says she was treated horribly by some, and my instinct is to believe her. Like most fans I don't truly know what actually went down in the Prince camp. Fans do know that there have been many fabrications in the Prince world.

I'd rather hear from Prince and from the others, despite the fact that most humans have told some fibs, and most humans are far from perfect.

Hands down, my favorite "Prince-world" book purchase is The Beautiful Ones. To read Prince's words, and see those thoughts written out in his beautiful handwriting...breaks my heart that he wasn't able to write more chapters.

Yes, it is ridiculous... agree. So why would Neal do that? Susannah was a romantic partner 3+ decades ago... and she has admitted he was seeing other women. So she did 'take shit'... I don't judge her for it as she wanted to be with Prince. She still called him the lover of her life. But dismissing all the other women he was with as floozies, including his wives, strikes me as odd.

.

I don't know many people without relationship issues... family, friend, at work. That is life.

.

I also loved The Beautiful Ones... and have several copies. It is nice to hear about others who treasure it I also loved his writing style, the way he draws the reader in. Plus I loved the pictures... seeing those swirls on his mom's dress reminded me of the swirls on his costumes. I also appreciate the nuanced way he described his parents... the maturity of an older man.

Prince and many of the women he was involved with hurt one another badly at times. I do think that's inconsistent with the "cool player" P image some seem in love with. But I prefer what I see as the truth, because the hurt makes P and the women all beautifully human.

Would it have been ideal for Prince to find a way to do his non-monogamy in the common definition of polyamory, where there is disclosure and it is agreed that all parties are supported in taking other lovers? For him to be able to do that and not get badly hurt? Sure! At least I think so. But that's a lot to ask of humans. Maybe that requires near-genius abilities of other sorts. : )

I was referencing a particular passage in the book. I took from that passage that Neil is saying that he thinks Susannah was Prince's last shot, via romantic relationship, to experience such a relationship with the power to be a force to help keep him fairly grounded.

I don't understand why Neal thinks and says that. I can't imagine it can be true. FWIW, I didn't take Neal to be characterizing all the other women as floozies in what I read. But you may have read something different in another part of the book (I haven't finished the book), or have been referencing something said in an interview or other place.

One thing about another topic discussed. Neal says that Prince was aware he was being taped in the car. But, of course, awareness of taping does not say what should be done with the tapes.

Life is full of issues, that is sure. Through it all, humans have hearts that can fall in love. Fall hard! I love how Prince is such a genius in expressing this in music. As a side note, I also love that Prince's music exudes the truth that women are not limited docile creatures who don't experience peaks of wildness, love, lust, anger, sadness, joy, etc., etc.

Love your observation about the swirls...and all those bolded Beautiful Ones observations. I, too, fell hard for those parts of that book.

[Edited 10/7/20 10:14am]

rednblue said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Yes, it is ridiculous... agree. So why would Neal do that? Susannah was a romantic partner 3+ decades ago... and she has admitted he was seeing other women. So she did 'take shit'... I don't judge her for it as she wanted to be with Prince. She still called him the lover of her life. But dismissing all the other women he was with as floozies, including his wives, strikes me as odd.

.

I don't know many people without relationship issues... family, friend, at work. That is life.

.

I also loved The Beautiful Ones... and have several copies. It is nice to hear about others who treasure it I also loved his writing style, the way he draws the reader in. Plus I loved the pictures... seeing those swirls on his mom's dress reminded me of the swirls on his costumes. I also appreciate the nuanced way he described his parents... the maturity of an older man.

Prince and many of the women he was involved with hurt one another badly at times. I do think that's inconsistent with the "cool player" P image some seem in love with. But I prefer what I see as the truth, because the hurt makes P and the women all beautifully human.

Would it have been ideal for Prince to find a way to do his non-monogamy in the common definition of polyamory, where there is disclosure and it is agreed that all parties are supported in taking other lovers? For him to be able to do that and not get badly hurt? Sure! At least I think so. But that's a lot to ask of humans. Maybe that requires near-genius abilities of other sorts. : )

I was referencing a particular passage in the book. I took from that passage that Neil is saying that he thinks Susannah was Prince's last shot, via romantic relationship, to experience such a relationship with the power to be a force to help keep him fairly grounded.

I don't understand why Neal thinks and says that. I can't imagine it can be true. FWIW, I didn't take Neal to be characterizing all the other women as floozies in what I read. But you may have read something different in another part of the book (I haven't finished the book), or have been referencing something said in an interview or other place.

One thing about another topic discussed. Neal says that Prince was aware he was being taped. But, of course, awareness of taping does not say what should be done with the tapes.

Life is full of issues, that is sure. Through it all, humans have hearts that can fall in love. Fall hard! I love how Prince is such a genius in expressing this in music. As a side note, I also love that Prince's music exudes the truth that women are not limited docile creatures who don't experience peaks of wildness, love, lust, anger, sadness, joy, etc., etc.

Love your observation about the swirls...and all those bolded Beautiful Ones observations. I, too, fell hard for those parts of that book.

[Edited 10/7/20 9:47am]

I haven't read Neal's book as I am turned off. Just extrapolating... the comments about Susannah are unfounded, even by her own sharings.

.

Prince disallowed taping for a very long time... Neal (and other journalists) shared about that extensively. Neal even shared about wanting to cut a hole in the crotch of his pants to hide a microphone. To me publishing Prince's voice (when he didn't authorize it) suggests that the book needs something to validate it. The quantity of errors noted show a sloppiness that is inexcusable given his credentials.

.

I also find Prince's music to be rich, and his vibrant depicitions of women are refreshing, even hilarious. Dorothy Parker is not only an interesting song 'character', but he clearly respected her as a writer. The real Dorothy was quite a social activist, even writing on race relations... she wasn't too docile at all.

.

I was blown away by those swirls... I thought wow, his mom was his fashion inspiration! Just beautiful writing and memories. Not so many pages... but still a treasure which reveals much.

[Edited 10/7/20 10:27am]

Genesia said:

MoodyBlumes said:

Neal isn't writing for free. If he doesn't make much money, then I will be happy. I haven't read the book but everything I have read about it doesn't sit well. And I was pro Neal when I first heard about the book. Here is an article on celebrity bios, which isn't quite the same, but Neal is being promoted as 'Prince's Biographer' yada yada. My guess is he is expecting to get paid. I am not comparing Neal with Kim Berry or Wally Safford, etc. although I believe they also expected to be well paid (even if they were not).

.

https://www.nydailynews.c...-1.1751111

Just parts of this article...

"There's big money in star memoirs."

.

"He's dating that boom to the publication of Keith Richards' blockbuster autobio, "Life." The guitarist's wild and witty book sold over 1 million copies, helping pay back a reported $7 million advance to the star.

Richards' success caused what book agent Sarah Lazin calls "a feeding frenzy. Publishers started looking for any star who has a clear fan base."

Small wonder book deals have recently been announced for Bryan Cranston, cashing in on the "Breaking Bad" craze, Lena Dunham, riding her "Girls" wave to the tune of a reported $3.5 million advance, and Flea, to recount his sex- and drug-fueled exploits with the Red Hot Chili Peppers."

.

"Autobios by Clapton, Steven Tyler, Nikki Sixx (plus Sixx's band, Motley Crue), Anthony Kiedis, Jay-Z, Bob Dylan and Patti Smith all sold robustly by industry standards — between 250,000 and 500,000 copies each, according to Ruby-Strauss. Smith's work, "Just Kids," which passed the half-million sales mark, according to BookScan, brought prestige to the genre by earning a National Book Award."

.

"Having a sense of humor also helps. Tina Fey enjoyed one of the industry's biggest successes with her 2011 autobio, "Bossypants." It has sold over 1 million copies. This has fueled interest in one from her old "Saturday Night Live" boss, Lorne Michaels. Piazza says such a tome could fetch an advance of $5 million."

Good grief. You don't even know the difference between a memoir and a biography.

Sit the fuck down already.

Dearly articulate font... if you actually read the post you will notice that I said "Here is an article on celebrity bios, which isn't quite the same". Here is how Neal presents himself on his facebook:

.

https://www.facebook.com/neal.karlen

.

Perhaps you meant he is the one who needs to 'sit the fuck down'? Appears he also doesn't know the difference between a memoir and a biography.

[Edited 10/7/20 10:25am]

I read this chapter - or the extended extract in RS online. I enjoyed the anecdotes and the emotional response the author had about Prince's death. The one thing that really bugged me? "The gazillion Grammys" - nope. 7. Skrillex has more, Ziggy Marley has more, Norah Jones has more, Taylor Swift and Justin Timberlake have more, Foo Fighters and Dixie Chicks have more... a gazillion... come on.

*

Oh, and this is all simply to highlight the ... how shall I say ... signifiance of the Grammys. And it should be Grammies...but it isn't.

[Edited 10/7/20 11:04am]

This is noise. He said this in an article in the Star Tribune shortly before Prince died in April 2016:

Q: How long has it been since you had contact with him?

A: When did I insult him on John Hines' show? Several years ago; I'd say three. In the last year I've been to Paisley Park a few times. A few times we have locked eyes and we smiled at each other.

He also said the following:

Q: Do you keep them in some place safe?

A: Yes. I will sell that. … His signature, he doesn’t sign autographs. I’m waiting for him to die, frankly, because they are worth infinitely more. His signature is worth so much more than Bob Dylan’s. … The most loyal professional [smile] and I’m waiting till he dies? [to the camera ]A long life, Prince.

https://www.startribune.com/c-j-writing-a-book-with-prince-would-be-a-nightmare-job-says-neal-karlen-who-loves-the-purple-guy/375907901/?refresh=true

Stop letting people who lie on Prince and who have been disloyal to Prince tell his story.

[Edited 10/7/20 11:09am]

MoodyBlumes said:

rednblue said:

Are you saying you'd like me to post articles reflecting that book-writing is not one of the first places to turn when looking to make good money? I can do that if you want. I also know some authors of books about Prince who said they made far less per hour doing that book writing than they did in other jobs they needed to hold to be able to earn a living.

I'm asking for evidence of what you said will happen with this book. You said, "Neal will make good coin on this one... trust."

So again, please provide the evidence of this from the pay rate of some of the multiple Prince book authors of varied backgrounds.

Or does "good coin" commonly refer to a low pay rate?

Neal isn't writing for free. If he doesn't make much money, then I will be happy. I haven't read the book but everything I have read about it doesn't sit well. And I was pro Neal when I first heard about the book. Here is an article on celebrity bios, which isn't quite the same, but Neal is being promoted as 'Prince's Biographer' yada yada. My guess is he is expecting to get paid. I am not comparing Neal with Kim Berry or Wally Safford, etc. although I believe they also expected to be well paid (even if they were not).

.

https://www.nydailynews.c...-1.1751111

Just parts of this article...

"There's big money in star memoirs."

.

"He's dating that boom to the publication of Keith Richards' blockbuster autobio, "Life." The guitarist's wild and witty book sold over 1 million copies, helping pay back a reported $7 million advance to the star.

Richards' success caused what book agent Sarah Lazin calls "a feeding frenzy. Publishers started looking for any star who has a clear fan base."

Small wonder book deals have recently been announced for Bryan Cranston, cashing in on the "Breaking Bad" craze, Lena Dunham, riding her "Girls" wave to the tune of a reported $3.5 million advance, and Flea, to recount his sex- and drug-fueled exploits with the Red Hot Chili Peppers."

.

"Autobios by Clapton, Steven Tyler, Nikki Sixx (plus Sixx's band, Motley Crue), Anthony Kiedis, Jay-Z, Bob Dylan and Patti Smith all sold robustly by industry standards — between 250,000 and 500,000 copies each, according to Ruby-Strauss. Smith's work, "Just Kids," which passed the half-million sales mark, according to BookScan, brought prestige to the genre by earning a National Book Award."

.

"Having a sense of humor also helps. Tina Fey enjoyed one of the industry's biggest successes with her 2011 autobio, "Bossypants." It has sold over 1 million copies. This has fueled interest in one from her old "Saturday Night Live" boss, Lorne Michaels. Piazza says such a tome could fetch an advance of $5 million."

Article above seems about memoirs from the star's voice. So they are sold as memoirs of the star's life, as the star recounts it.

As I understand it, the "memoir" part of Neil Karlen's book refers to a recounting of parts of the life of Neal Karlen, who is not a star.

The "biography" part refers to Neal Karlen writing about Prince, vs. Prince's writing telling us about Prince. Celebrities surely very often have writers and editors involved in their memoirs, but the idea is that the story is told in their written voice, even in cases when others have edited, etc.

MoodyBlumes said:

rednblue said:

Prince and many of the women he was involved with hurt one another badly at times. I do think that's inconsistent with the "cool player" P image some seem in love with. But I prefer what I see as the truth, because the hurt makes P and the women all beautifully human.

Would it have been ideal for Prince to find a way to do his non-monogamy in the common definition of polyamory, where there is disclosure and it is agreed that all parties are supported in taking other lovers? For him to be able to do that and not get badly hurt? Sure! At least I think so. But that's a lot to ask of humans. Maybe that requires near-genius abilities of other sorts. : )

I was referencing a particular passage in the book. I took from that passage that Neil is saying that he thinks Susannah was Prince's last shot, via romantic relationship, to experience such a relationship with the power to be a force to help keep him fairly grounded.

I don't understand why Neal thinks and says that. I can't imagine it can be true. FWIW, I didn't take Neal to be characterizing all the other women as floozies in what I read. But you may have read something different in another part of the book (I haven't finished the book), or have been referencing something said in an interview or other place.

One thing about another topic discussed. Neal says that Prince was aware he was being taped. But, of course, awareness of taping does not say what should be done with the tapes.

Life is full of issues, that is sure. Through it all, humans have hearts that can fall in love. Fall hard! I love how Prince is such a genius in expressing this in music. As a side note, I also love that Prince's music exudes the truth that women are not limited docile creatures who don't experience peaks of wildness, love, lust, anger, sadness, joy, etc., etc.

Love your observation about the swirls...and all those bolded Beautiful Ones observations. I, too, fell hard for those parts of that book.

[Edited 10/7/20 9:47am]

I haven't read Neal's book as I am turned off. Just extrapolating... the comments about Susannah are unfounded, even by her own sharings.

.

Prince disallowed taping for a very long time... Neal (and other journalists) shared about that extensively. Neal even shared about wanting to cut a hole in the crotch of his pants to hide a microphone. To me publishing Prince's voice (when he didn't authorize it) suggests that the book needs something to validate it. The quantity of errors noted show a sloppiness that is inexcusable given his credentials.

.

I also find Prince's music to be rich, and his vibrant depicitions of women are refreshing, even hilarious. Dorothy Parker is not only an interesting song 'character', but he clearly respected her as a writer. The real Dorothy was quite a social activist, even writing on race relations... she wasn't too docile at all.

.

I was blown away by those swirls... I thought wow, his mom was his fashion inspiration! Just beautiful writing and memories. Not so many pages... but still a treasure which reveals much.

[Edited 10/7/20 10:27am]

RE: Tapes, before I headed back to work, I edited above comment as I realized I hadn't specified "in the car," as Neil said Prince knew that he was running a tape recorder at that particular time...the time that they were taking the drives around town that Neil describes extensively in his book.

Have to go into work now, but YES to a TREASURE.

donnyenglish said:

This is noise. He said this in an article in the Star Tribune shortly before Prince died in April 2016:

Q: How long has it been since you had contact with him?

A: When did I insult him on John Hines' show? Several years ago; I'd say three. In the last year I've been to Paisley Park a few times. A few times we have locked eyes and we smiled at each other.

He also said the following:

Q: Do you keep them in some place safe?

A: Yes. I will sell that. … His signature, he doesn’t sign autographs. I’m waiting for him to die, frankly, because they are worth infinitely more. His signature is worth so much more than Bob Dylan’s. … The most loyal professional [smile] and I’m waiting till he dies? [to the camera ]A long life, Prince.

https://www.startribune.com/c-j-writing-a-book-with-prince-would-be-a-nightmare-job-says-neal-karlen-who-loves-the-purple-guy/375907901/?refresh=true

Stop letting people who lie on Prince and who have been disloyal to Prince tell his story.

[Edited 10/7/20 11:09am]

Am rushing because have to go, so sorry if this comes off as dense and harsh.

If you are looking for someone to write a book about Prince who hasn't ever lied about Prince and others in the purple world, and who hasn't been extemely and harshly disloyal to others in the purple world at times, you'd have to rule out Prince himself.

Can absolutely and totally understand saying Prince is number one source due to his genius and for being the reason the purple world exists in the first place...but that's not the same as being superhuman in not fibbing and being exempt from some pretty terribly disloyal treatment of others.

Also, sorry for super dense question, but how does above quoted exchange preclude the notion of March 2016 phone call?

And can you suggest a few books on Prince? I've got (and love) The Beautiful Ones.

[Edited 10/7/20 11:32am]

MoodyBlumes said:

Genesia said:

Good grief. You don't even know the difference between a memoir and a biography.

Sit the fuck down already.

Dearly articulate font... if you actually read the post you will notice that I said "Here is an article on celebrity bios, which isn't quite the same". Here is how Neal presents himself on his facebook:

.

https://www.facebook.com/neal.karlen

Neal Karlen

9 books,bazillion articles;Rolling Stone,Newsweek;NYTimes;Prince bio/memoir,
10/20,St.Martin's Press

.

Perhaps you meant he is the one who needs to 'sit the fuck down'? Appears he also doesn't know the difference between a memoir and a biography.

[Edited 10/7/20 10:25am]

Right. You said "celebrity bios," then posted a link to an article that is clearly about autobiographies. Learn to read.

[Edited 10/7/20 11:34am]

rednblue said:

....
So when he writes on his Facebook Prince bio/memoir he is referring to himself? You may be right. Again, someone who has written a 'bazillion articles' is expecting to get paid.

Genesia said:

...
How 'bout you learn some manners. Trying to be a big fish in a small pond... got it. Anyone who thinks Neal is writing for free is as naive as they come.