SOTT SD has made me fall deeply in love with the man's music and even the persona he had at the time. From 1978 thru Graffiti Bridge Prince was an open-minded, multi-racial, spiritual, colorful, sexually nonjudgemental, playful, vulnerable, unrestrained, inspired genius.

Then came Hip Hop. Soon after Prince started exhibiting a more macho "mack daddy", I'm that n*gga persona, angry, slave, which oddly lead to a religiously dogmatic penultimate act and a somewhat lost and lonely end. I never stopped liking his music but the magic of 1978-1990 was never the same. I know there are hundreds of fans here who know what I'm talking about.

AvocadosMax said:

“Why can't they love me 4 what I am Instead of what they want me 2 be?” —P

"Because what they want u 2 b is what you said that u were" -H

OperatingThetan said:

I agree brother. It's funny because he represents freedom of expression and sexuality more than he even intended to.

I think what you´re saying does make sense if we look at his image ca. Diamonds and Pearls and all the way until the mid to late 90s but he changed again so many times after that phase.

This being said, I think he should´ve just stayed true to himself during that late 80s, early 90s phase because most rappers had huge respect for him anyway, regardless of how effeminate or androgynous his image was. And those who didn´t respect him in the first place or mocked him were not to be convinced by his forays into rap anyway.

Maxwell for instance changed his sound a bit over the years but he still maintained that rather vulnerable, soft, romantic image without creating a tough guy image and it worked and still works for him.

But then again, Prince always incorporated other current genres into his own sound so it was probably inevitable that he´d do what he did since rap had become so ubiqutous and omnipresent.

Was it really necessary? I don´t think so.

The HipHop community always respected him for what he was before he picked up rap influences at an age where most rappers get bored with rap and look for a change in their music, be it rock, reggae or electro, see Ice-T ´s Bodycount or Mos Def´s attempts at Rock music and singing.

OperatingThetan said:

I don't agree with your assessment of Prince's final years as I feel he was reemerging creatively and distancing himself from the strict dogma and interpretations of the JW faith. There definitely was a shift from 1990 onwards though. Prior to that, Prince seemed to be channeling the 'Mack Daddy' persona through The Time, particularly Morris Day, and from 91 onward seemed to adjust into embracing it publically himself. This may have been due to personal issues, commercial interests, creative expansion or something else, but I think it was always an aspect of him, just not personally and outwardly displayed until the 90s.

Maybe, but remember how playful and fun loving The Time was.

Compare that energy to what Prince is serving in something like "Sexy MF", where he lectures the girl on being smart and deep enough to get with him. When Morris does it, you love him for being a scamp. When Prince does it, he sounds deadly serious, like he's lost the plot.

Or "18 and Over", where he has no time to wink or flirt or ellude to anything; he's too busy describing the wheel barrow position. Maybe "Hi ho Silver, it's the Bone Ranger" could have been a joke in Morris' hands, but Prince makes you want to cringe.

Mintchip said:

OperatingThetan said:

I don't agree with your assessment of Prince's final years as I feel he was reemerging creatively and distancing himself from the strict dogma and interpretations of the JW faith. There definitely was a shift from 1990 onwards though. Prior to that, Prince seemed to be channeling the 'Mack Daddy' persona through The Time, particularly Morris Day, and from 91 onward seemed to adjust into embracing it publically himself. This may have been due to personal issues, commercial interests, creative expansion or something else, but I think it was always an aspect of him, just not personally and outwardly displayed until the 90s.

Maybe, but remember how playful and fun loving The Time was.

Compare that energy to what Prince is serving in something like "Sexy MF", where he lectures the girl on being smart and deep enough to get with him. When Morris does it, you love him for being a scamp. When Prince does it, he sounds deadly serious, like he's lost the plot.

Or "18 and Over", where he has no time to wink or flirt or ellude to anything; he's too busy describing the wheel barrow position. Maybe "Hi ho Silver, it's the Bone Ranger" could have been a joke in Morris' hands, but Prince makes you want to cringe.

I kid you not. At an afterparty in Austin (during Jam of the Years days) Morris Hayes came over to my tall blonde female roommate and whispered in her ear for a while. A moment later he left (Prince was keeping his distance from the crowd on a floor above peering down). "What did he say to you?" we immediately shouted. She, trying to talk over the din, in her southern drawl with a puzzled look said, "Something about a wheelbarrow?"

I am not kidding.

But during the Diamonds and Pearls and Symbol album period, through Come and Gold, he did have his literal Tootsie Pop and cane and played the part of the pimp mack daddy. For sure. Seems like he dropped it for Emancipation onwards.

ufoclub said:

CharismaDove said:

OperatingThetan said:

I don't agree with your assessment of Prince's final years as I feel he was reemerging creatively and distancing himself from the strict dogma and interpretations of the JW faith. There definitely was a shift from 1990 onwards though. Prior to that, Prince seemed to be channeling the 'Mack Daddy' persona through The Time, particularly Morris Day, and from 91 onward seemed to adjust into embracing it publically himself. This may have been due to personal issues, commercial interests, creative expansion or something else, but I think it was always an aspect of him, just not personally and outwardly displayed until the 90s.

Exactly. “Chocolate”, “Movie Star”, “Jerk Out”, “Bob George”. The live shows in the ‘80s had a looot of pimp daddy posturing/energy. And in the ‘90s he was still dropping pleny of peace-love-n-sex anthems [Edited 10/11/20 9:00am]

We didn't know about "Chocolate", "Jerk Out" and "Movie Star" back then publicly. Sure, Morris Day was who he channeled his pimp mack daddy through.... but it wasn't the Prince I saw.

"Bob George" is not a pimp daddy song. In fact Bob was ragging on that "skinny motherfucker with the high voice" I'm talking about.

[Edited 10/11/20 14:09pm]

TKO said:

I agree brother. It's funny because he represents freedom of expression and sexuality more than he even intended to.

"Uptown"....Prince was liberating and all-inclusive. In touch with both sides of his sexuality even though he was unquestionably heterosexual (not that I would've cared if he wasn't). The man who wrote "If I Was Your Girlfriend" and "Anna Stesia" is not the same man who wrote "Hide The Bone" but like I said he was great all through his career. I'm just expressing the Prince I fell in love with. Even though I was a ripped sports jock who was popular with the ladies Prince really opened my mind with his music.

homesquid said:

TKO said:

I agree brother. It's funny because he represents freedom of expression and sexuality more than he even intended to.

"Uptown"....Prince was liberating and all-inclusive. In touch with both sides of his sexuality even though he was unquestionably heterosexual (not that I would've cared if he wasn't). The man who wrote "If I Was Your Girlfriend" and "Anna Stesia" is not the same man who wrote "Hide The Bone" but like I said he was great all through his career. I'm just expressing the Prince I fell in love with. Even though I was a ripped sports jock who was popular with the ladies Prince really opened my mind with his music.

I understand the point you´re trying to make and I agree with you (see my post above) but.......Prince did not write Hide the Bone.

KoolEaze said:

homesquid said:

"Uptown"....Prince was liberating and all-inclusive. In touch with both sides of his sexuality even though he was unquestionably heterosexual (not that I would've cared if he wasn't). The man who wrote "If I Was Your Girlfriend" and "Anna Stesia" is not the same man who wrote "Hide The Bone" but like I said he was great all through his career. I'm just expressing the Prince I fell in love with. Even though I was a ripped sports jock who was popular with the ladies Prince really opened my mind with his music.

I understand the point you´re trying to make and I agree with you (see my post above) but.......Prince did not write Hide the Bone.

Ppl are underestimating what it takes to maintain an interesting 37 year career as a Pop Artist...it is has been rarely done in the history of music. And I followed P throughout all those years and at his core he always remained the iconoclastic, revolutionary and independent artist he was from Day 1.

KoolEaze said:

homesquid said:

"Uptown"....Prince was liberating and all-inclusive. In touch with both sides of his sexuality even though he was unquestionably heterosexual (not that I would've cared if he wasn't). The man who wrote "If I Was Your Girlfriend" and "Anna Stesia" is not the same man who wrote "Hide The Bone" but like I said he was great all through his career. I'm just expressing the Prince I fell in love with. Even though I was a ripped sports jock who was popular with the ladies Prince really opened my mind with his music.

I understand the point you´re trying to make and I agree with you (see my post above) but.......Prince did not write Hide the Bone.

And it was written by a woman...interesting.

jdcxc said:

Ppl are underestimating what it takes to maintain an interesting 37 year career as a Pop Artist...it is has been rarely done in the history of music. And I followed P throughout all those years and at his core he always remained the iconoclastic, revolutionary and independent artist he was from Day 1.

Agree

I prefer lacey fey Prince in ascot and silk pajamas over butch designer zoot suit chain mail mask Prince but I don't think the music is clear cut like that. It just happens I don't love the New Jack, overproduced songs as much.