SOTT Live In Utrecht (LP 11, LP 12 & LP 13)

Reply #92 posted 09/30/20 2:39pm

ForceofNature

I think a good idea could be applying like musical Occam's Razor to it, which would be the more plausible explanation:

- Prince, just for one specific Utrecht gig, had all of the instruments tuned slightly flat defying the universally agreed upon tuning system in the Western world

or...

- For this release somwhere in the mastering process or transferring of the tapes it got 2% slower and wasn't corrected prior to the disks being sent out

[Edited 9/30/20 14:43pm]

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Reply #93 posted 09/30/20 2:39pm

PRNelson

Fandangouk2014 said:

To my untrained and ignorant ears the whole concert sounds flat and lifeless. It may be because the crowd is barely audible, or something about the sharpness of the drums, I dunno. Like I said, I'm no expert, but the whole thing sounds lacking any energy. Loving the set though, feels like Xmas came early. Quite enjoyed the dvd too, a strange little gig but with plenty of genuinely charming glimpses into Prince's personality.

This is a fair assessment in my opinion. Also, for such an incredibly tight band, the Utrecht show is littered with performance errors. What was the reason given, if any, for choosing this particular show for the release?

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funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Reply #94 posted 09/30/20 3:07pm

PRNelson said:

Fandangouk2014 said:

There is no reason.
I'm sure there are better shows our there worth comparable sound quality (esp as this one just sounds like any sound board bootleg)
You can find livelier shows on YouTube.
[Edited 9/30/20 15:12pm]

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Reply #95 posted 09/30/20 3:14pm

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

PRNelson said:

There is no reason.
I'm sure there are better shows our there worth comparable sound quality (esp as this one just sounds like any sound board bootleg)

Comparing it to the Paris bootleg was a mistake I made. The performance of that Paris show really highlights how listless this Utrecht performance is.

Here’s what Howe said about why it was chosen:

“ How did you select the live stuff that’s on there? And what’s with the absence of anything from the movie?
We had a number of different possibilities. We couldn’t really use anything that was contemplated for use in the Sign O’ the Times theatrical film, because there were all kinds of rights issues wrapped up in that which are basically too involved for me to disentangle on this call. We tried many, many different ways to include the theatrical release of the film, and couldn’t really do it in a way that we thought was complete and had the sort of integrity that Prince would have demanded for it. So we had to look at some other possibilities from a live standpoint, and the one that jumped out at us was the [June 20th, 1987] Utrecht [Netherlands] show, which was a particularly beloved show in the fan community and had never to my knowledge circulated as a finished stereo mix. I think there’s kind of a substandard audience recording that has floated around for a while. It was an incendiary show and shone a light on his live artistry at that point. And we chose the Paisley Park, New Year’s Eve [1987] DVD because it’s such an unbelievable performance, and also because, of course, it has the Miles Davis appearance.”
[Edited 9/30/20 15:16pm]

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funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Reply #96 posted 09/30/20 3:27pm

Hes just good at talking shit in a way that sounds like the work of painstaking research and decision making
There are better shows, more dynamic, more fun, more audience atmosphere, just fiercer performances on YouTube alone, never mind on bootleg.
Shame as this tour and band should be better represented
[Edited 9/30/20 15:28pm]

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Reply #97 posted 09/30/20 3:54pm

databank

avatar

Kares confirms the Utrecht show is below normal pitch. Says Blanche and a couple of other studio tracks, too.

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Reply #98 posted 09/30/20 4:36pm

databank said:

Kares confirms the Utrecht show is below normal pitch. Says Blanche and a couple of other studio tracks, too.

What a shame. At least it’s correctable, but still. What are the other tracks?

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Reply #99 posted 09/30/20 7:29pm

udo

avatar

parker said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

im not a pro musician nor an engineer, but having heard these songs played live many times, i do not hear anything noticeable. there are slight speed differences with alot of unreleased vault songs compared to bootlegs though, so who is to say which is the speed as it is meant to be.

This is the point, if you're a professional musician, you can notice all of the bands instruments are out of tune.

So for mere mortals, how can we find out?

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.

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Reply #100 posted 09/30/20 7:43pm

udo said:

parker said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

im not a pro musician nor an engineer, but having heard these songs played live many times, i do not hear anything noticeable. there are slight speed differences with alot of unreleased vault songs compared to bootlegs though, so who is to say which is the speed as it is meant to be.

This is the point, if you're a professional musician, you can notice all of the bands instruments are out of tune.

So for mere mortals, how can we find out?

When a professional confirms something is incorrect is all I’ve been depending on. That and hearing how it sounds off. Don’t think there’s a way to do what you’re asking.

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Reply #101 posted 09/30/20 7:45pm

parker said:

databank said:

Kares confirms the Utrecht show is below normal pitch. Says Blanche and a couple of other studio tracks, too.

What a shame. At least it’s correctable, but still. What are the other tracks?

It must be one of the not widely circulating tracks. None sound off to me, I can hear the sluggishness on Blanche, which I kinda like...maybe Wally? Still sounds a little fast...

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Reply #102 posted 09/30/20 8:00pm

databank

avatar

parker said:
databank said:

Kares confirms the Utrecht show is below normal pitch. Says Blanche and a couple of other studio tracks, too.

What a shame. At least it’s correctable, but still. What are the other tracks?

He didn't say (but I didn't ask).

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Reply #103 posted 09/30/20 8:22pm

databank said:

parker said:

databank said:

Kares confirms the Utrecht show is below normal pitch. Says Blanche and a couple of other studio tracks, too.

What a shame. At least it’s correctable, but still. What are the other tracks?

He didn't say (but I didn't ask).

Damn. Ignorance is bliss, but now I’ll be suspecting every track lol

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Reply #104 posted 10/01/20 12:37am

rafael	parker said: udo said: . So for mere mortals, how can we find out? When a professional confirms something is incorrect is all I’ve been depending on. That and hearing how it sounds off. Don’t think there’s a way to do what you’re asking. What do u mean by professional?
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Reply #105 posted 10/01/20 2:48am

scififilmnerd

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Who cares about the pitch! Guys & Boys is on! I'm singing along. excited Now it's Slow Love. I'm still singing! nutty

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Reply #106 posted 10/01/20 8:14am

dualboot

avatar

scififilmnerd said:

Who cares about the pitch! Guys & Boys is on! I'm singing along. Now it's Slow Love. I'm still singing!

Guys & Boys.... lol

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Reply #107 posted 10/01/20 1:42pm

CAL3

scififilmnerd said:

Who cares about the pitch! Guys & Boys is on! I'm singing along. excited Now it's Slow Love. I'm still singing! nutty

.
Yeah! Who cares if highly-skilled professionals bother to master the music properly before issuing it as an expensive collectors edition!
.
Yay for insultingly poor quality control!
.
Three cheers for the consumer getting screwed!

I’ve been informed that my opinion is worth less than those expressed by others here.

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Reply #108 posted 10/01/20 2:06pm

herb4	Holy shit. I'm so god damned dumb I slept on this, thinking it was just audio of the DVD or the movie. I need to pay closer attention and drink less. Got something for the front burner for tomorrow though! Man....this whole set is gonna take a while to absorb. I've only played the vault discs 1x each and watched the DVD. I need to get into headphone mode this weekend.
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Reply #109 posted 10/01/20 2:11pm

LoveGalore	dualboot said: scififilmnerd said: Who cares about the pitch! Guys & Boys is on! I'm singing along. Now it's Slow Love. I'm still singing! Guys & Boys.... Yikes
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Reply #110 posted 10/01/20 2:35pm

ufoclub said:

Some flaws in the performance:

Housequake... is Levi playing the bassline out of time at the beginning?

Let's Go Crazy and 1999 arrangements don't sound very good.

The Cross would have been amazing... but someone hit the keyboard horn accidentally before it kicks in, lol. Love the particular delay effect on his vocal.

And the good:

Wow, really like all the vamping and variations on "Forever in My Life", and "If I was Your Girlfriend" and "Hot Thing" sound great. And "It's Gonna Be a Beautful Night" is tight.

I like hearing good bands fuck up live.

The Stones (And Zeppelin) are notorious for it but watching them find the song again on a dime is really fun and speaks to their professionalism somehow. At least to me. Makes it more human and relatable somehow and also reinforces the reality that they're all actually fucking playing; Unlike all the piped in pre-recorded crap that passes for "live shows" these days.

I'm an illustrator and, along similar lines, always enjoy watching a professional go through the various stages of producing the final piece. Unlike musicans, they can do another draft and rarely have to draw anything "live" but I distinctly recall feeling better watching some of my favorite artists struggle. I always just assumed that what we saw (the final album cover, comic book, painting) was done in "one take" and seeing the process helped me gain some confidence.

...

I've been reading these threads and it keeps cracking me up hearing people obsess over a 2 second moment or a hiccup in a few tracks over, like, 9 fucking discs. Apparently something burps on Rebirth of the Flesh too but what an odd thing to focus on with so much great shit in this collection. It seems a little nitpicky and petty to me but then I remember that this is the org and then it makes more sense.

Never change, Prince.org.

Never change.

The imperfections make it better, y'all.

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Reply #111 posted 10/01/20 2:43pm

LoveGalore

herb4 said:

ufoclub said:

Some flaws in the performance:

Housequake... is Levi playing the bassline out of time at the beginning?

Let's Go Crazy and 1999 arrangements don't sound very good.

The Cross would have been amazing... but someone hit the keyboard horn accidentally before it kicks in, lol. Love the particular delay effect on his vocal.

And the good:

Wow, really like all the vamping and variations on "Forever in My Life", and "If I was Your Girlfriend" and "Hot Thing" sound great. And "It's Gonna Be a Beautful Night" is tight.

That last bit is subjective but as for the rest...

No. I'm not saying we burn down Paisley over this stuff but please don't think that stifling this discussion would somehow help improve either the product or the consumer's enjoyment of the product. In fact, this is the kind of shit companies do all the time - in a rush to secure the bag, they release subpar products and either use the consumers unwittingly as beta testers or at worst they think subpar product is acceptable to them. Again, no.

Do the quibbles matter much on their own? Depends. But as they pile up? Fuck yeah! Each individual grain of sand builds a whole ass beach and while it doesn't take the beauty out of the scenery if the grains of sand are razor sharp and cut your feet, it sure as shit means I ain't enjoying the beach the way I could if it were ready for public enjoyment.

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Reply #112 posted 10/01/20 3:15pm

SquirrelMeat said:

The speeds sounds fine to me.

I always thought the sound in the movie runs slightly fast. Maybe that's why they sound so different.

seriously.

Some of y'all will bitch about anything.

Prince never gave us anything close to the live recordings, outtakes and recorded shows that we've gotten so far with these 3 SDE sets. And he had ample opportunity to do so. When he was living, we got Rave 2000, ONA Live and Syracuse (I guess you could count Livesexy if you want) while he sat on stuff. People were clamoring for something like this to be released 10-20 years ago and anxious to pay for it, through a website stream, a DVD or anything else. We were dying for vault tracks and live performances. This set gives us TWO live shows and 3 discs of the vault.

Now we're getting it and (some are) bitching about crowd noise and shit which is a weird complaint. Only time the lack of crowd noise bugs me is when/because Prince likes to do call outs and sing alongs a lot so it sounds flat when you can't here that, but I was never much of fan of him doing that anyway.

This box set is astonishing in its scope and is gonna take me a good while to digest. Nitpicking it to death is not something I feel much like doing right now as much as finding a block of uninterrupted time to really explore it. I'm still not completely done injecting 1999 SDE into my purple veins and now this. We also got Originals and the Piano and Mic CD's, which all offer something different.

I think the estate is doing a great job handling these releases and am excited to see what's next.

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Reply #113 posted 10/01/20 3:21pm

LoveGalore said:
herb4 said:

I like hearing good bands fuck up live.

...

That last bit is subjective but as for the rest... No. I'm not saying we burn down Paisley over this stuff but please don't think that stifling this discussion would somehow help improve either the product or the consumer's enjoyment of the product. In fact, this is the kind of shit companies do all the time - in a rush to secure the bag, they release subpar products and either use the consumers unwittingly as beta testers or at worst they think subpar product is acceptable to them. Again, no. Do the quibbles matter much on their own? Depends. But as they pile up? Fuck yeah! Each individual grain of sand builds a whole ass beach and while it doesn't take the beauty out of the scenery if the grains of sand are razor sharp and cut your feet, it sure as shit means I ain't enjoying the beach the way I could if it were ready for public enjoyment.

OK, man. I know it;s ALL subjective.

Sorry you're not satisfied. I;m enjoying this stuff a lot so w/e

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Reply #114 posted 10/01/20 4:05pm

SquirrelMeat

avatar

herb4 said:

SquirrelMeat said:

The speeds sounds fine to me.

I always thought the sound in the movie runs slightly fast. Maybe that's why they sound so different.

seriously.

Some of y'all will bitch about anything.

Prince never gave us anything close to the live recordings, outtakes and recorded shows that we've gotten so far with these 3 SDE sets. And he had ample opportunity to do so. When he was living, we got Rave 2000, ONA Live and Syracuse (I guess you could count Livesexy if you want) while he sat on stuff. People were clamoring for something like this to be released 10-20 years ago and anxious to pay for it, through a website stream, a DVD or anything else. We were dying for vault tracks and live performances. This set gives us TWO live shows and 3 discs of the vault.

Now we're getting it and (some are) bitching about crowd noise and shit which is a weird complaint. Only time the lack of crowd noise bugs me is when/because Prince likes to do call outs and sing alongs a lot so it sounds flat when you can't here that, but I was never much of fan of him doing that anyway.

This box set is astonishing in its scope and is gonna take me a good while to digest. Nitpicking it to death is not something I feel much like doing right now as much as finding a block of uninterrupted time to really explore it. I'm still not completely done injecting 1999 SDE into my purple veins and now this. We also got Originals and the Piano and Mic CD's, which all offer something different.

I think the estate is doing a great job handling these releases and am excited to see what's next.

Eh? I ain't bitching about anything.

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Reply #115 posted 10/01/20 4:18pm

SoulAlive

herb4 said:

SquirrelMeat said:

The speeds sounds fine to me.

I always thought the sound in the movie runs slightly fast. Maybe that's why they sound so different.

I agree with everything you said.This set is amazing! The estate are doing an incredible job.You won’t hear any nitpicking from me
biggrin

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Reply #116 posted 10/01/20 4:41pm

SquirrelMeat said:

herb4 said:

seriously.

Some of y'all will bitch about anything.

Prince never gave us anything close to the live recordings, outtakes and recorded shows that we've gotten so far with these 3 SDE sets. And he had ample opportunity to do so. When he was living, we got Rave 2000, ONA Live and Syracuse (I guess you could count Livesexy if you want) while he sat on stuff. People were clamoring for something like this to be released 10-20 years ago and anxious to pay for it, through a website stream, a DVD or anything else. We were dying for vault tracks and live performances. This set gives us TWO live shows and 3 discs of the vault.

Now we're getting it and (some are) bitching about crowd noise and shit which is a weird complaint. Only time the lack of crowd noise bugs me is when/because Prince likes to do call outs and sing alongs a lot so it sounds flat when you can't here that, but I was never much of fan of him doing that anyway.

This box set is astonishing in its scope and is gonna take me a good while to digest. Nitpicking it to death is not something I feel much like doing right now as much as finding a block of uninterrupted time to really explore it. I'm still not completely done injecting 1999 SDE into my purple veins and now this. We also got Originals and the Piano and Mic CD's, which all offer something different.

I think the estate is doing a great job handling these releases and am excited to see what's next.

Eh? I ain't bitching about anything.

Yeah, my bad.

I started to write about agreeing with you and then got caught up in a rant and just happened to quote you. SOrry

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Reply #117 posted 10/01/20 4:45pm

databank

avatar

SoulAlive said:
herb4 said:

seriously.

Some of y'all will bitch about anything.

Prince never gave us anything close to the live recordings, outtakes and recorded shows that we've gotten so far with these 3 SDE sets. And he had ample opportunity to do so. When he was living, we got Rave 2000, ONA Live and Syracuse (I guess you could count Livesexy if you want) while he sat on stuff. People were clamoring for something like this to be released 10-20 years ago and anxious to pay for it, through a website stream, a DVD or anything else. We were dying for vault tracks and live performances. This set gives us TWO live shows and 3 discs of the vault.

Now we're getting it and (some are) bitching about crowd noise and shit which is a weird complaint. Only time the lack of crowd noise bugs me is when/because Prince likes to do call outs and sing alongs a lot so it sounds flat when you can't here that, but I was never much of fan of him doing that anyway.

This box set is astonishing in its scope and is gonna take me a good while to digest. Nitpicking it to death is not something I feel much like doing right now as much as finding a block of uninterrupted time to really explore it. I'm still not completely done injecting 1999 SDE into my purple veins and now this. We also got Originals and the Piano and Mic CD's, which all offer something different.

I think the estate is doing a great job handling these releases and am excited to see what's next.

I agree with everything you said.This set is amazing! The estate are doing an incredible job.You won’t hear any nitpicking from me

Putting aside outtakes and shows selection, which will always be subject to everyone's personal wishlist and thus cannot be assessed with much objectivity, how is doing a job with flaws incredible? "Decent", OK, "good", if you will, but incredible?

I'm very sorry, but the fact that, for the third time (after P&AM83 and IFFY), we're facing speed tape issues isn't exactly what I would call incredible (what I DO find incredible is that WB's professional engineers haven't, in month of planning, been able to identify a problem that fans identified in a matter of days!!). Audience level, maybe there wasn't anything to do about it if all they had was an "on the spot" mix without the multitracks, which is very possible. I'll take that. But tape speed?

The fact that some tracks are lossy, while I do not care personally about it, is also far from incredible when your product is aimed at a community of people who are mostly audiophiles. And I do not see any reason why this would happen. It's not like all they could find was mp3 files in P's computer (or if so, they should tell us).

The fact that one edit, one remix and one OST song that belong there aren't included is also quite problematic for the many completists among the target audience.

And I'm not even going to go into the myriad of other problems we've had with each and every previous Estate release. Each. And. Every. One. Of. Them.

So no, I'm sorry.

Yes, this box-set is good overall and yes, we should be happy to have everything that's on it, flaws or not, I certainly am. But incredible? No.

There are several people here that'd have done a better job, I'm sorry.

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Reply #118 posted 10/01/20 4:49pm

SquirrelMeat

avatar

herb4 said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Eh? I ain't bitching about anything.

Yeah, my bad.

I started to write about agreeing with you and then got caught up in a rant and just happened to quote you. SOrry

No worries! biggrin

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Reply #119 posted 10/01/20 6:24pm

LoveGalore

herb4 said:

LoveGalore said:

herb4 said:

I like hearing good bands fuck up live.

...

That last bit is subjective but as for the rest... No. I'm not saying we burn down Paisley over this stuff but please don't think that stifling this discussion would somehow help improve either the product or the consumer's enjoyment of the product. In fact, this is the kind of shit companies do all the time - in a rush to secure the bag, they release subpar products and either use the consumers unwittingly as beta testers or at worst they think subpar product is acceptable to them. Again, no. Do the quibbles matter much on their own? Depends. But as they pile up? Fuck yeah! Each individual grain of sand builds a whole ass beach and while it doesn't take the beauty out of the scenery if the grains of sand are razor sharp and cut your feet, it sure as shit means I ain't enjoying the beach the way I could if it were ready for public enjoyment.

OK, man. I know it;s ALL subjective.

Sorry you're not satisfied. I;m enjoying this stuff a lot so w/e

Are you kidding? I'm in love with the set, lol.

I just know that I can both love it and be critical of where it does not at all meet basic QC standards.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but prince never released music with warbles and fucked up pitch on his standard albums... Right?

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