parker said:

Really odd the Utrecht show runs slow. Is the estate thinking they found it that way, and it was an artistic choice by Prince it running slow?

you have it all wrong. they're just not ready to take such creative liberties. flying in parts overdubbed months later and making a mix that was never meant to be? that's fine... but when you start talking about speeding up a tape or removing hiss from a tape, that's a step too far. i'm thankful to see the integrity of this estate fully displayed.

lustmealways said:

parker said:

Really odd the Utrecht show runs slow. Is the estate thinking they found it that way, and it was an artistic choice by Prince it running slow?

you have it all wrong. they're just not ready to take such creative liberties. flying in parts overdubbed months later and making a mix that was never meant to be? that's fine... but when you start talking about speeding up a tape or removing hiss from a tape, that's a step too far. i'm thankful to see the integrity of this estate fully displayed.

lustmealways said:

i have heard some stunning and properly mastered multitracks and i am of the opinion that utrecht is decidedly not a multitrack

i'm ready to be proven wrong if i am, but i just don't hear it.

Like you said, ''mastered'' and in many cases with overdubs. Its just that the instruments here, they are too prominent. Dont forget, the tape is 33 years old. Im not saying im right, any info given in the book would have been proper.

lustmealways said:

parker said:

lustmealways said:

you have it all wrong. they're just not ready to take such creative liberties. flying in parts overdubbed months later and making a mix that was never meant to be? that's fine... but when you start talking about speeding up a tape or removing hiss from a tape, that's a step too far. i'm thankful to see the integrity of this estate fully displayed.

You’re talking about Originals. That’s the point, they’ve over corrected because of the hardcore fan backlash to that set.

I don't think any speed issue with the live recording can possibily be attributed to a desire of authenticity. There is a limit to stupidity even at Iron Mountain. If true (I mean IDK, I cannot tell for myself if that tape has a problem or not, I have to ask Kares), it can only be the result of either a lack of skills (it slipped thru the cracks), or cost reduction measures (let's not pay an engineer to fix this)

The latter is hard to believe, but I was told that the non-restoration of P&AM83 wasn't a matter of authenticity as alleged, but a matter of saving costs. I cannot say for sure whether it's true, so don't take my word for it, but I trust my source.

databank said:

I don't think any speed issue with the live recording can possibily be attributed to a desire of authenticity. There is a limit to stupidity even at Iron Mountain. If true (I mean IDK, I cannot tell for myself if that tape has a problem or not, I have to ask Kares), it can only be the result of either a lack of skills (it slipped thru the cracks), or cost reduction measures (let's not pay an engineer to fix this)

The latter is hard to believe, but I was told that the non-restoration of P&AM83 wasn't a matter of authenticity as alleged, but a matter of saving costs. I cannot say for sure whether it's true, so don't take my word for it, but I trust my source.

this would be truly head scratching because it took someone all of 5 minutes to point out Utrecht was running slow and the fix can be done in literal minutes by throwing the tracks into any DAW and speeding it up 2 percent. and on the topic of piano 83 (and the I Feel For You acoustic thing from last year!) some touch ups/fixes on those could've been done by literally anyone who knows how to work a computer. if it's cost saving, i shudder to imagine their line of thinking... it's perhaps emblematic of a larger line of thinking that pervades corporations which is more money thrown on a problem = better results when in reality the best answer is often the easiest and cheapest one.

[Edited 9/29/20 11:43am]

lustmealways said:

databank said:

I don't think any speed issue with the live recording can possibily be attributed to a desire of authenticity. There is a limit to stupidity even at Iron Mountain. If true (I mean IDK, I cannot tell for myself if that tape has a problem or not, I have to ask Kares), it can only be the result of either a lack of skills (it slipped thru the cracks), or cost reduction measures (let's not pay an engineer to fix this)

The latter is hard to believe, but I was told that the non-restoration of P&AM83 wasn't a matter of authenticity as alleged, but a matter of saving costs. I cannot say for sure whether it's true, so don't take my word for it, but I trust my source.

this would be truly head scratching because it took someone all of 5 minutes to point out Utrecht was running slow and the fix can be done in literal minutes by throwing the tracks into any DAW and speeding it up 2 percent. and on the topic of piano 83 (and the I Feel For You acoustic thing from last year!) some touch ups/fixes on those could've been done by literally anyone who knows how to work a computer. if it's cost saving, i shudder to imagine their line of thinking... it's perhaps emblematic of a larger line of thinking that pervades corporations which is more money thrown on a problem = better results when in reality the best answer is often the easiest and cheapest one.

[Edited 9/29/20 11:43am]

I know, baffling, right? IDK what happened, how it happened and why it happened. But someone is doing too much coke at Iron Mountain, that much I can tell.

lustmealways said:

i have heard some stunning and properly mastered multitracks and i am of the opinion that utrecht is decidedly not a multitrack

i'm ready to be proven wrong if i am, but i just don't hear it.

.

Wait!

Didn't mr Howe explain the process that this recording endured?

Oh dear!

parker said:

Really odd the Utrecht show runs slow. Is the estate thinking they found it that way, and it was an artistic choice by Prince it running slow?

If I had to guess, either the person who mastered it didn't catch it during the mastering process and they were delivered tapes that were transferred at the wrong speed, or post-mastering process there was an error while exporting the final product and that mistake was never corrected

[Edited 9/29/20 23:41pm]

parker said:

Really odd the Utrecht show runs slow. Is the estate thinking they found it that way, and it was an artistic choice by Prince it running slow?

.

How did you find out is is slow?

Please describe the details for us.

(not all of us have golden ears or the 100% correct speed master at home)

parker said:

The speeds sounds fine to me.

I always thought the sound in the movie runs slightly fast. Maybe that's why they sound so different.

SquirrelMeat said:

The speeds sounds fine to me.

I always thought the sound in the movie runs slightly fast. Maybe that's why they sound so different.

We need to get to the bottom of it. I haven't checks Steve Hoffmann yet so IDK what is the reasoning behind the argument.

databank said:

GeurtWalraven said:

parker said:

im not crazy about this recording but 1) its not slow 2) its not out of tune

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

parker said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

im not crazy about this recording but 1) its not slow 2) its not out of tune

Are you a professional musician? Seems in the thread I linked a couple of them are, and have checked the Utrecht show, and there’s no doubt it’s out of tune. If you listen to the Paris bootleg, or even the NYE show, it does sound a little draggy, and off.

They seem split on the thread.

I'm no pro, but some of them are comparing it to the movie when suggesting Utrect is slow. I think its the other way around. The movie has been slightly sped up.

I base that assuption on two things. One, when you see he perform SOTT at the likes of the MTV awards and NYE concert, they more closely match the speed of Utrect than the movie.

Secondly, a bit of memory recollection. I went to many of the SOTT shows, and when, a few months later I saw the movie, my first thought was, 'why did they speed it up?'

Every time I listen to the concert CDs, I feel compelled to turn it up and dance when Hot Thing comes on.

And then, when If I Was Your Guyfriend comes on, I feel compelled to sing.

Those are the highlights of the show for me.

[Edited 10/1/20 2:49am]

parker said:

parker said:

It’s out of tune, it’s an objective conclusion.

This is the start of the discussion: https://forums.stevehoffm...t-25028823

Who are these people on stevehoffman? Professional engineers/musicians? Right....... Ive checked it with Audacity. 2% is hardly, no wait, not noticeable.

databank said:

SquirrelMeat said:

The speeds sounds fine to me.

I always thought the sound in the movie runs slightly fast. Maybe that's why they sound so different.

We need to get to the bottom of it. I haven't checks Steve Hoffmann yet so IDK what is the reasoning behind the argument.

so, many of us have many soundboard Lovesexy shows...some Sign shows too (Paris). Purple Rain is obviously slow...

Compared to the studio versions, all the tracks are clearly a bit too slow on the live show. I think it happened while recording the show and tape was maybe running a bit too fast. They could have easily fixed it during transfer for this release, but didn't notice the issue or didn't care to check it?

At least I can pitch it up when playing the vinyl records.

SquirrelMeat said:

parker said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said: Are you a professional musician? Seems in the thread I linked a couple of them are, and have checked the Utrecht show, and there’s no doubt it’s out of tune. If you listen to the Paris bootleg, or even the NYE show, it does sound a little draggy, and off.

They seem split on the thread.

I'm no pro, but some of them are comparing it to the movie when suggesting Utrect is slow. I think its the other way around. The movie has been slightly sped up.

I base that assuption on two things. One, when you see he perform SOTT at the likes of the MTV awards and NYE concert, they more closely match the speed of Utrect than the movie.

Secondly, a bit of memory recollection. I went to many of the SOTT shows, and when, a few months later I saw the movie, my first thought was, 'why did they speed it up?'

I hope you're right. Some are making comparisons like that, but the original person who found the potential problem is doing it based on the tuning of the instruments. Unfortunetly I read this information before listening, so what I'm hearing is biased, because I'm listening for it.

Hard to beleive this could happen, but I've yet to see somebody refute the claim with anything other than a subjective opinion.

JoeyCococo said:

databank said:

We need to get to the bottom of it. I haven't checks Steve Hoffmann yet so IDK what is the reasoning behind the argument.

so, many of us have many soundboard Lovesexy shows...some Sign shows too (Paris). Purple Rain is obviously slow...

Is the Paris show running fast?

im not a pro musician nor an engineer, but having heard these songs played live many times, i do not hear anything noticeable. there are slight speed differences with alot of unreleased vault songs compared to bootlegs though, so who is to say which is the speed as it is meant to be.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

im not a pro musician nor an engineer, but having heard these songs played live many times, i do not hear anything noticeable. there are slight speed differences with alot of unreleased vault songs compared to bootlegs though, so who is to say which is the speed as it is meant to be.

This is the point, if you're a professional musician, you can notice all of the bands instruments are out of tune.