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Thread started 09/17/20 5:58am

LausOrg

Clare Fischer's string arrangements deliberately being left out on recently released vault tracks?

First one was "You're My Love" from 'Originals', and now it seems to be happening again with "Cosmic Day", "It Ain't Over Til The Fat Lady Sings", "All My Dreams"...

Does anybody know why?

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Reply #1 posted 09/17/20 6:05am

JorisE73

LausOrg said:

First one was "You're My Love" from 'Originals', and now it seems to be happening again with "Cosmic Day", "It Ain't Over Til The Fat Lady Sings", "All My Dreams"...

Does anybody know why?


Probably so they don't have to pay him.
Or maybe they are holding them for a complete Prince and Clare Fisher collection (doubtful, but you never know).

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Reply #2 posted 09/17/20 6:26am

VaultCurator

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Hi LausOrg.

This is not true of all tracks. According to Number23's review the 7" edit of Crystal Ball includes Clare Fischer's strings.

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Reply #3 posted 09/17/20 7:03am

LausOrg

VaultCurator said:

Hi LausOrg.

This is not true of all tracks. According to Number23's review the 7" edit of Crystal Ball includes Clare Fischer's strings.

You are right, I missed that one! And that makes it a bit more intriguing as to the reasons why the tracks I mention do not include them. Maybe they did not find mixdowns with strings and did not want to take the artistic freedom to just throw them into their own mix? It would be interesting to ask Michael Howe about it one day.

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Reply #4 posted 09/17/20 10:32am

TrivialPursuit

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Michael Howe and whoever seems to be trying to find the most definitive version and the most pure version of a song. Prince likely had Clare orchestrate a lot of things, but it doesn't always mean he intended on using it.

I think where Clare's strings - aka the alt versions - are going to be required is on the Parade expanded. "New Position" with Clare's strings leaked earlier this year (or late 2019?) and it was a very interesting listen.

It seems like "All My Dreams" would've been something to have on there w/ Clare. But just the song itself is what's important. However, it could be included on a future Parade set because remember it was originally "Old Friends 4 Sale" seguing into "All My Dreams" (which is why the beginning of the song faded in, or had some weird blurry hypnotic resonating happening - that was the end of "Old Friends 4 Sale"). Maybe there, a string version of both, intact as they originally segued, would be doable.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #5 posted 09/17/20 10:40am

databank

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LausOrg said:

First one was "You're My Love" from 'Originals', and now it seems to be happening again with "Cosmic Day", "It Ain't Over Til The Fat Lady Sings", "All My Dreams"...

Does anybody know why?

I don't think there's much logic, probably Michael Howe just likes them better that way.

.

Take the logic behind the choice of versions on Originals, as explained by Niko Bolas on the P&B podcast: aparently Howe said to take the earliest possible recording so it's truly an "original" and to follow the vault mixdown's mix and edit as close as possible and to mix and edit the tracks so they're as close as possible to the released versions by another artist wacky

Basically poor Niko was given contradictory orders, and Howe couldn't even stick to his own logic. For example WYLTLM isn't the earliest recorded version of the song, and the mix of NC2U -among others- doesn't attempt to emulate either the Prince demo nor released Family mix - or it does both all at once, it's hard to tell with a mess like that... No wonder we ended-up with Frankenstein mixes and a completely erratic tracklist.

Common sense would have been to pick and recreate the final version of the song as it was handed to the artist for rerecording/overdubbing, since these were the "originals" said artists had to work with.

.

So hopefully things are a little less chaotic by now, at least that's what 1999SDE suggested. But when it comes to choosing content I'd still assume Howe will listen to various versions and arbitrarily pick whatever. Maybe he ain't too fond of Clare's strings is all.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #6 posted 09/17/20 10:47am

SquirrelMeat

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LausOrg said:

First one was "You're My Love" from 'Originals', and now it seems to be happening again with "Cosmic Day", "It Ain't Over Til The Fat Lady Sings", "All My Dreams"...



Does anybody know why?



You're My Love was recorded before Prince worked with Clare.

For the others, like Trivial said, is simply because other versions might be preferred. The unreleased version of New Position with strings is interesting, but Prince made the right call to cut them.

Maybe we'll find out more from the release notes.
.
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Reply #7 posted 09/17/20 11:02am

LoveGalore

SquirrelMeat said:

LausOrg said:

First one was "You're My Love" from 'Originals', and now it seems to be happening again with "Cosmic Day", "It Ain't Over Til The Fat Lady Sings", "All My Dreams"...



Does anybody know why?



You're My Love was recorded before Prince worked with Clare.

For the others, like Trivial said, is simply because other versions might be preferred. The unreleased version of New Position with strings is interesting, but Prince made the right call to cut them.

Maybe we'll find out more from the release notes.


Yes but it had strings added prior to being submitted to Kenny Rogers.
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Reply #8 posted 09/17/20 11:10am

SquirrelMeat

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LoveGalore said:

SquirrelMeat said:



You're My Love was recorded before Prince worked with Clare.

For the others, like Trivial said, is simply because other versions might be preferred. The unreleased version of New Position with strings is interesting, but Prince made the right call to cut them.

Maybe we'll find out more from the release notes.


Yes but it had strings added prior to being submitted to Kenny Rogers.


Yes, in 86, but the 1982 version obviously won't have them.

So its not a case of them being removed, but a creative choice as to which version to release.
.
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Reply #9 posted 09/17/20 11:11am

LoveGalore

SquirrelMeat said:

LoveGalore said:
Yes but it had strings added prior to being submitted to Kenny Rogers.
Yes, in 86, but the 1982 version obviously won't have them. So its not a case of them being removed, but a creative choice as to which version to release.

Fair point!

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Reply #10 posted 09/17/20 12:58pm

TrivialPursuit

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SquirrelMeat said:

LausOrg said:

First one was "You're My Love" from 'Originals', and now it seems to be happening again with "Cosmic Day", "It Ain't Over Til The Fat Lady Sings", "All My Dreams"...

Does anybody know why?

You're My Love was recorded before Prince worked with Clare. For the others, like Trivial said, is simply because other versions might be preferred. The unreleased version of New Position with strings is interesting, but Prince made the right call to cut them. Maybe we'll find out more from the release notes.


And I meant to add that these songs existed whether Clare added to them or not. That's likely why Howe is choosing a lot of non-Clare versions. It's not to not pay Clare. It's just the purity of the most original and organic version to Prince's creative process. It's a bit like hearing his early version of "Kiss" compared to David Z.'s. I would think that early verison is inherent to an expanded Parade for that reason.

I will say this, with "All My Dreams" being one of my all time favorite songs, I sorta need to hear those strings at some point.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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