First one was "You're My Love" from 'Originals', and now it seems to be happening again with "Cosmic Day", "It Ain't Over Til The Fat Lady Sings", "All My Dreams"...

Does anybody know why?

LausOrg said:

First one was "You're My Love" from 'Originals', and now it seems to be happening again with "Cosmic Day", "It Ain't Over Til The Fat Lady Sings", "All My Dreams"...

Does anybody know why?

Probably so they don't have to pay him.
Or maybe they are holding them for a complete Prince and Clare Fisher collection (doubtful, but you never know).

Hi LausOrg.

This is not true of all tracks. According to Number23's review the 7" edit of Crystal Ball includes Clare Fischer's strings.

VaultCurator said:

Hi LausOrg.

This is not true of all tracks. According to Number23's review the 7" edit of Crystal Ball includes Clare Fischer's strings.

You are right, I missed that one! And that makes it a bit more intriguing as to the reasons why the tracks I mention do not include them. Maybe they did not find mixdowns with strings and did not want to take the artistic freedom to just throw them into their own mix? It would be interesting to ask Michael Howe about it one day.

Michael Howe and whoever seems to be trying to find the most definitive version and the most pure version of a song. Prince likely had Clare orchestrate a lot of things, but it doesn't always mean he intended on using it.

I think where Clare's strings - aka the alt versions - are going to be required is on the Parade expanded. "New Position" with Clare's strings leaked earlier this year (or late 2019?) and it was a very interesting listen.

It seems like "All My Dreams" would've been something to have on there w/ Clare. But just the song itself is what's important. However, it could be included on a future Parade set because remember it was originally "Old Friends 4 Sale" seguing into "All My Dreams" (which is why the beginning of the song faded in, or had some weird blurry hypnotic resonating happening - that was the end of "Old Friends 4 Sale"). Maybe there, a string version of both, intact as they originally segued, would be doable.

LausOrg said:

First one was "You're My Love" from 'Originals', and now it seems to be happening again with "Cosmic Day", "It Ain't Over Til The Fat Lady Sings", "All My Dreams"...

Does anybody know why?

I don't think there's much logic, probably Michael Howe just likes them better that way.

.

Take the logic behind the choice of versions on Originals, as explained by Niko Bolas on the P&B podcast: aparently Howe said to take the earliest possible recording so it's truly an "original" and to follow the vault mixdown's mix and edit as close as possible and to mix and edit the tracks so they're as close as possible to the released versions by another artist

Basically poor Niko was given contradictory orders, and Howe couldn't even stick to his own logic. For example WYLTLM isn't the earliest recorded version of the song, and the mix of NC2U -among others- doesn't attempt to emulate either the Prince demo nor released Family mix - or it does both all at once, it's hard to tell with a mess like that... No wonder we ended-up with Frankenstein mixes and a completely erratic tracklist.

Common sense would have been to pick and recreate the final version of the song as it was handed to the artist for rerecording/overdubbing, since these were the "originals" said artists had to work with.

.

So hopefully things are a little less chaotic by now, at least that's what 1999SDE suggested. But when it comes to choosing content I'd still assume Howe will listen to various versions and arbitrarily pick whatever. Maybe he ain't too fond of Clare's strings is all.

LausOrg said:

SquirrelMeat said:

LoveGalore said:

SquirrelMeat said:

LoveGalore said:

Yes but it had strings added prior to being submitted to Kenny Rogers.

Yes, in 86, but the 1982 version obviously won't have them. So its not a case of them being removed, but a creative choice as to which version to release.

Fair point!

SquirrelMeat said:

LausOrg said:

First one was "You're My Love" from 'Originals', and now it seems to be happening again with "Cosmic Day", "It Ain't Over Til The Fat Lady Sings", "All My Dreams"...

Does anybody know why?

You're My Love was recorded before Prince worked with Clare. For the others, like Trivial said, is simply because other versions might be preferred. The unreleased version of New Position with strings is interesting, but Prince made the right call to cut them. Maybe we'll find out more from the release notes.

And I meant to add that these songs existed whether Clare added to them or not. That's likely why Howe is choosing a lot of non-Clare versions. It's not to not pay Clare. It's just the purity of the most original and organic version to Prince's creative process. It's a bit like hearing his early version of "Kiss" compared to David Z.'s. I would think that early verison is inherent to an expanded Parade for that reason.

I will say this, with "All My Dreams" being one of my all time favorite songs, I sorta need to hear those strings at some point.

I think the version of All My Dreams I know and love is the version without strings. So, I hope I'm not screwed when SOTT Deluxe comes out!

If it's missing anything crucial I remember from the bootleg, I'll be pissed!

williamb610 said:

I think the version of All My Dreams I know and love is the version without strings. So, I hope I'm not screwed when SOTT Deluxe comes out!

If it's missing anything crucial I remember from the bootleg, I'll be pissed!

Like Crystal Ball, there are several versions/stages of the song; it seems The Estate is going for the versions marked 'final' by Prince, which is not always the best choice, imho

Aas with 100MPH on Originals having the added guitar lick and misses the awesome 'uhu'-intro, and as with Witness 4 The Prosecution Version 1, which is actually Version 2, but that is how you look at it.
Let's just say that EITHER The Estate is keeping bootlegs viable OR might release other versions on other Deluxe sets.

I know Prince once said that the boots we have are unfinished, but some just work better that way, like leaving the bass of When Doves Cry, or releasing Dirty Mind as it was.

In this case, whatever version is on here, I am sure we'll get the other version of All My Dreams on the Parade Deluxe. We'll just have to be patient. Let's just say I will start saving up for nest year's Super Deluxe.

I would love to have a version of Parade particularly with all of the unedited original string arrangements and even demo arrangements. That version of I wonder U with Prince on lead that ?love played was the bomb.

I think this would be justified with Parade particularly because Clare`s arrangement was such a huge part of the album.

JorisE73 said:

LausOrg said:

First one was "You're My Love" from 'Originals', and now it seems to be happening again with "Cosmic Day", "It Ain't Over Til The Fat Lady Sings", "All My Dreams"...

Does anybody know why?

Probably so they don't have to pay him.
Or maybe they are holding them for a complete Prince and Clare Fisher collection (doubtful, but you never know).

Fisher's orchestrations were a work for hire, meaning, payment was already made. Releasing Prince recordings with or without Fisher's strings now has no bearing whatsoever on Fisher or his estate.

christobole said:

JorisE73 said:

Probably so they don't have to pay him.
Or maybe they are holding them for a complete Prince and Clare Fisher collection (doubtful, but you never know).

Fisher's orchestrations were a work for hire, meaning, payment was already made. Releasing Prince recordings with or without Fisher's strings now has no bearing whatsoever on Fisher or his estate.

I would assume the same but I vaguely recall Brent Fischer explaining in an interview that they were surprised and pleased to get a royalties check for the strings samples from CB on The Future.

Now I honestly don't know shit about how these contracts work so IDK, and I'm not even sure about reading this, it's just a vague memory of being surprised when i read or heard it, but I could be confusing it with something else.

Regardless, I don't think the Estate can be that cheap. I sure hope not!!

christobole said:

JorisE73 said:

Probably so they don't have to pay him.
Or maybe they are holding them for a complete Prince and Clare Fisher collection (doubtful, but you never know).

Fisher's orchestrations were a work for hire, meaning, payment was already made. Releasing Prince recordings with or without Fisher's strings now has no bearing whatsoever on Fisher or his estate.

I attended a music convention some years ago with Clare Fisher and his son talking about his recordings and he said he still got royalties for things Prince released with his work on it. So I assumed they still have to pay him if they release something with him on it.