muleFunk said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

And crazily enough they were also around all the time and thus CAN PROVIDE ACTAL INSIGHT. Who the fuck doesn't want to hear from the very people who Prince so trusted that he told them to play around with his tracks and add their own ideas UNSUPERVISED?

.

Meanwhile there are whiners who ask why the SOTT band isn't interviewed here, ignoring that a) that band didn't exist in 86 and b) that band played on ZERO recordings.

.

Prince had DECADES to provide his side of the story, and didn't.

.

JFC some of you pretend that W&L were a footnote, meanwhile Prince remained obsessed with them for decades and dedicated songs to them and blamed them for the RG debacle (which of course they had zero involvement in) etc.

.

And every goddamn time you complainers open your mouth, it is crystal clear that you lot IMAGINE things and insert your own goddamn imaginary agendas into their words. You lot take words out of context and then bitch about it.

.

You lot offer zero insight and pollute threads with this bullshit. I'd urge the Org mods to either ban you lot or apply timeouts whenever you post this bullshit.

Point is Bastard Prince is dead. Their contributions are no greater than Shelia, Jill, or others. Prince was the straw that stirred the drink. How many number one songs did they have after leaving? How many number one albums? Prince had hit songs a long goddamn time after whatever contributions they gave him. I happen to like them and their post Revolution music but goddamn they didn't make this album or Prince. Its PRINCE and the Revolution. Not The Revolution and it will BE like that forever.

-

1. From your reaction, i'm not convinced if you understand what it means to 'make music' (for all of them). Not to forget the privileged situation they wxere in when it all occured in that blooming period of 1985-1987.

It was all about the magic that happened WHEN all of them collaborated with Prince.

He gave the girls limitless input in creation. The reason why ? Trust, love, frienship and curiosity, new challenges, freshness, and he was always keen enough to learn something from others.

He was most ready for it and open to it, due to trust etc.

Sure he dicided in the end how songs were mixed as the final results we all know.

It was all HIS. I fully agree on that one.

Though, his trust was genuin and open - obvious proof is in the listening, and the comparisson with later work (but that of course is my full humble opinion).

No he isn't around anymore. But i'll cut of my right hand to be able to read that part he was about to write in his own biography of the tremendous love, input, friendship, trust and much more he had with 'the girls' and possibly also with other members.

It was just pure chemistry on a wave of mutual love and respect.

They were so young and invincable. And it was ALL happening !

He was on his peak. Everyone was - they build eachother on a personal, emotional and musical level.

And I'll cut of my left hand too, to be able to read what he would have written about their most strong

chemical releationships, why the breakup/that brutal cut with all of them (only Dr. Fink stayed).

-

2. You Americans (I suppose you are, forgive me if i'm wrong) always want to measure and compare most things in A-results, always need to 'score' and 'compare'. That's not what quality is about, isn't it?

It is not that W&L (or others) did not have HITS later on, that their contribution needs to be downsized.

They became musician-musicians. And thàt is a real strong appreciation of pure recognition in the business.

(I explained it here on the .org some time ago in a very long list of their contributions, etc.

You can find it if interested. But that's not the point right now.)

-

3. No that's not true. Prince had 'some' hits after the Revolution was dismatled.

Again, you presumably are counting in A-results and numbers, though forgive me if I'm wrong.

OK, yes he had hits after The Revolution, before you start giving me a list.

But again that's not the point.

The quality basically was gone. The indepth musicianship as a writer, the saus of pure inovative craftmanship (for me) was gone after the results of that chemical connection with The Revolution.

Lovesey was a great new start though. It's still my favourite album!

But now I can see that most albums after that (if not all) lacked the uniqueness and the skills Prince used to create.

Sure he wrote some great songs, but if you don't understand what I mean, there is no use of a debat.

Let's put it like this; the public in general can decide, and they did (if you want) when measuring the attention span in his later career.

His popularity shranked. Period. Just like his sales (I presume, but I don't care that much for numbers).

If he didn't extendedly toured so much throughout his whole life, he would've been a niche artist.

Now bash me. (peace though)

-

4. You are absolutely right about this : it has always been (first) Prince and (then) The Revolution, Prince up front ! Always. For ever and ever.

But the mix of people back then was so stunning, unpresedented, new and thrilling.

Thàt formula had to fall one day - like it was written in purple stars.

Obviously it was a mix of pureness, and being all so young and full of fire that resulted in the famous music we all know and love so much.

-

Prince & The New Power Generation or wahtever band that came after that, did never ever have it ! Never.

-

[Edited 8/28/20 23:59pm]

bonatoc said:

LoveGalore said:

Of course Wendy has a chip on her shoulder. Considering her and Lisa had such a wildly bumpy ride with Prince throughout 1986, she has a ton of emotions. I think she'd only NOT have a chip on her shoulder had her and Lisa's music careers as solo artists really took off that way as opposed to becoming composers and indie artists. It's hard to go backwards.

That being said, SOTT is as much a Prince solo record as 1999 or Controversy. Sure, some other folks contributed things. Cool beans. But they were projects directly representing Prince and his vision. Not a shared vision. A singular one.

Keep in my mind, as Wendy stated herself, that she was very young at the time.
She was living a dream to be a privileged collaborator of the pop artist all other pop artists revered, and she didn't have the time to digest it, or getting bored with it, she was shot down as she was taking off.

Plus, she said she understands. And I think she means with time, now that she's more mature, she understands the need for Prince to shift and try to pack in as much as he could while the talent was still screaming.

He was frequenting George Clinton and Chaka Kahn for a few years already, and even without having discussions with them, he was clever enough to realize that you only have a short period of time before you turn into a catalog artist, something he obviously fought against during all of the nineties.

I can't blame Wendy: I would be proud as heck for having being so young and trusted with multitracks to arrange, from the guy who is, let's face it, the ultimate arranger. And a little bit mad that it only lasted three years.

[Edited 8/28/20 14:49pm]

-

I 100% agree on how you see it. I couldn't put it any better.

But I do believe it lasted longer than 3 years.. i believe, whatever.

I Believe that it was (and this is my humble opinion) a very steep love amongst all of them that had to explode somewhere. And yes, Prince probably wanted to go further and explore new paths.

But the cut-off was so abrubt. There must've been more going on than just 'a break up'.

Friendships don't end that way i believe. It just became too strong.

The (ultimate)mix with Susannah and all of them, the girls, etc.

To bad he left us before being able write about that in his book.

We'll never know for sure.

-

Vannormal said:

ForbiddenFruit said:

muleFunk said:

BartVanHemelen said: Point is Bastard Prince is dead. Their contributions are no greater than Shelia, Jill, or others. Prince was the straw that stirred the drink. How many number one songs did they have after leaving? How many number one albums? Prince had hit songs a long goddamn time after whatever contributions they gave him. I happen to like them and their post Revolution music but goddamn they didn't make this album or Prince. Its PRINCE and the Revolution. Not The Revolution and it will BE like that forever.

You can't be serious.

[Edited 8/28/20 7:03am]

Agreed. This is perhaps the most rediculous statement of all.

HamsterHuey said:

motherfunka said:

Let the Wendy and Lisa bashing begin!

Come on; it is OBVIOUS their close relationship with Prince, the bond he had with Wendy's sister and the leiway he gave them in the studio and how he responded/expanded on their input is a very special moment in his career. And it is AWESOME how they're willling to share their memories with us all.

It's always great to hear them talk about him; Lisa's choice of words and the joy in her voice when she talks about him and Wendy's awe and gigantic love for him; what's not to love?

Here are some words that have already been shared:

"There was one obvious indication that Prince was about to make some kind of change. “He had been working more on his own than usual,” Coleman said about the recording sessions last year for Prince’s latest album, “Sign ‘O’ the Times.” “We weren’t with him in the studio as much.”

Melvoin and Coleman appear on the “Sign ‘O’ the Times” album, but not to the extent they had expected. “We played on a lot of the material for that album,” Melvoin said. “But he cut a whole lot of it out when he put together the final version of the album.”

https://www.latimes.com/a...story.html

[Edited 8/29/20 5:14am]

WhisperingDandelions said:

muleFunk said:

Prince had hit songs a long goddamn time after whatever contributions they gave him.

I mean, he had some hits after, but a "long time" after is stretching the truth. He had "hits" for like another 6-7 years tops, at least according to chart positions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/...iscography

Vannormal said:

muleFunk said:

BartVanHemelen said: Point is Bastard Prince is dead. Their contributions are no greater than Shelia, Jill, or others. Prince was the straw that stirred the drink. How many number one songs did they have after leaving? How many number one albums? Prince had hit songs a long goddamn time after whatever contributions they gave him. I happen to like them and their post Revolution music but goddamn they didn't make this album or Prince. Its PRINCE and the Revolution. Not The Revolution and it will BE like that forever.

-

1. From your reaction, i'm not convinced if you understand what it means to 'make music' (for all of them). Not to forget the privileged situation they wxere in when it all occured in that blooming period of 1985-1987.

It was all about the magic that happened WHEN all of them collaborated with Prince.

He gave the girls limitless input in creation. The reason why ? Trust, love, frienship and curiosity, new challenges, freshness, and he was always keen enough to learn something from others.

He was most ready for it and open to it, due to trust etc.

Sure he dicided in the end how songs were mixed as the final results we all know.

It was all HIS. I fully agree on that one.

Though, his trust was genuin and open - obvious proof is in the listening, and the comparisson with later work (but that of course is my full humble opinion).

No he isn't around anymore. But i'll cut of my right hand to be able to read that part he was about to write in his own biography of the tremendous love, input, friendship, trust and much more he had with 'the girls' and possibly also with other members.

It was just pure chemistry on a wave of mutual love and respect.

They were so young and invincable. And it was ALL happening !

He was on his peak. Everyone was - they build eachother on a personal, emotional and musical level.

And I'll cut of my left hand too, to be able to read what he would have written about their most strong

chemical releationships, why the breakup/that brutal cut with all of them (only Dr. Fink stayed).

-

2. You Americans (I suppose you are, forgive me if i'm wrong) always want to measure and compare most things in A-results, always need to 'score' and 'compare'. That's not what quality is about, isn't it?

It is not that W&L (or others) did not have HITS later on, that their contribution needs to be downsized.

They became musician-musicians. And thàt is a real strong appreciation of pure recognition in the business.

(I explained it here on the .org some time ago in a very long list of their contributions, etc.

You can find it if interested. But that's not the point right now.)

-

3. No that's not true. Prince had 'some' hits after the Revolution was dismatled.

Again, you presumably are counting in A-results and numbers, though forgive me if I'm wrong.

OK, yes he had hits after The Revolution, before you start giving me a list.

But again that's not the point.

The quality basically was gone. The indepth musicianship as a writer, the saus of pure inovative craftmanship (for me) was gone after the results of that chemical connection with The Revolution.

Lovesey was a great new start though. It's still my favourite album!

But now I can see that most albums after that (if not all) lacked the uniqueness and the skills Prince used to create.

Sure he wrote some great songs, but if you don't understand what I mean, there is no use of a debat.

Let's put it like this; the public in general can decide, and they did (if you want) when measuring the attention span in his later career.

His popularity shranked. Period. Just like his sales (I presume, but I don't care that much for numbers).

If he didn't extendedly toured so much throughout his whole life, he would've been a niche artist.

Now bash me. (peace though)

-

4. You are absolutely right about this : it has always been (first) Prince and (then) The Revolution, Prince up front ! Always. For ever and ever.

But the mix of people back then was so stunning, unpresedented, new and thrilling.

Thàt formula had to fall one day - like it was written in purple stars.

Obviously it was a mix of pureness, and being all so young and full of fire that resulted in the famous music we all know and love so much.

-

Prince & The New Power Generation or wahtever band that came after that, did never ever have it ! Never.

-

[Edited 8/28/20 23:59pm]

That's your opinion which is appreciated by me but it's not fact.

donnyenglish said:

Name a song on the SOTT album other than Beautiful Night that Wendy and Lisa helped write? Yet, the episode implies that they were the key collaborators for the album. Very misleading to talk about the songs that did not make it SOTT as if their contributions to those songs should be attributed to the actual songs that made it on the album. Stop white washing his music. He had moved way beyond 1984 by SOTT but it is 2020 and it seems like the majority of the fan base is still there. To say his new (and better band) had nothing to do with the album is just false when Sheila was much more influential on this album than anyone else.

they've been white-washing Prince's career ever since he died (and even before)...its become sickening...but entirely predictable

RJOrion said:

donnyenglish said:

Name a song on the SOTT album other than Beautiful Night that Wendy and Lisa helped write? Yet, the episode implies that they were the key collaborators for the album. Very misleading to talk about the songs that did not make it SOTT as if their contributions to those songs should be attributed to the actual songs that made it on the album. Stop white washing his music. He had moved way beyond 1984 by SOTT but it is 2020 and it seems like the majority of the fan base is still there. To say his new (and better band) had nothing to do with the album is just false when Sheila was much more influential on this album than anyone else.

they've been white-washing Prince's career ever since he died (and even before)...its become sickening...but entirely predictable

What's sickening is the fact that there are some who believe that a backing band was greater than the person that people have called a modern day Mozart.

i think i'm still a little confused. can someone explain their opinion on wendy and lisa just one more time? i don't think i've heard enough yet.

And this people is a perfect of example of behavior of a SUPERFAN.

BartVanHemelen said:

dodger said:

My thoughts exactly, after listening to that.

The '11 of the 16 tracks were done while he was with The Rev' line is misleading. Technically correct but they're actually only on 2 of the 16. It's making the album sound like something it's not.

Not 'bashing' just saying

.

And crazily enough they were also around all the time and thus CAN PROVIDE ACTAL INSIGHT. Who the fuck doesn't want to hear from the very people who Prince so trusted that he told them to play around with his tracks and add their own ideas UNSUPERVISED?

.

Meanwhile there are whiners who ask why the SOTT band isn't interviewed here, ignoring that a) that band didn't exist in 86 and b) that band played on ZERO recordings.

.

Prince had DECADES to provide his side of the story, and didn't.

.

JFC some of you pretend that W&L were a footnote, meanwhile Prince remained obsessed with them for decades and dedicated songs to them and blamed them for the RG debacle (which of course they had zero involvement in) etc.

.

And every goddamn time you complainers open your mouth, it is crystal clear that you lot IMAGINE things and insert your own goddamn imaginary agendas into their words. You lot take words out of context and then bitch about it.

.

You lot offer zero insight and pollute threads with this bullshit. I'd urge the Org mods to either ban you lot or apply timeouts whenever you post this bullshit.

donnyenglish said:

Name a song on the SOTT album other than Beautiful Night that Wendy and Lisa helped write? Yet, the episode implies that they were the key collaborators for the album. Very misleading to talk about the songs that did not make it SOTT as if their contributions to those songs should be attributed to the actual songs that made it on the album. Stop white washing his music. He had moved way beyond 1984 by SOTT but it is 2020 and it seems like the majority of the fan base is still there. To say his new (and better band) had nothing to do with the album is just false when Sheila was much more influential on this album than anyone else.

.

Well, on THIS album — the one they're actually selling — there's at least 10? Including a few where Wendy and Lisa are playing solo? Like, without Prince? Even on lead vocals? So...

.

The podcast is called the 'Story of Sign O' The Times'. You can't tell that story without The Revolution. Episode one, which is all we've heard, ends with Wendy and Lisa getting fired. This isn't unexpected.

.

There are celebrities I don't like, too. I get that. Miles Teller, for example. I can't stand him. But I don't sit here, ascribing all kinds of extra ulterior motivations to Miles Teller. Because Miles Teller doesn't need it. He's annoying enough as it is.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Mintchip said:

mbdtyler said:

Anyone else blown away by the clip of "Large Room" here? It's gonna take a while to adjust to the slightly slower speed after years of listening to the bootleg, but that song alone would make this entire release worthwhile even without the other amazing material

Yeah !!!

That was awesome.

controversy99 said:

3. Hearing Prince's directions before Power Fantastic was really cool.

.

That was one of my favorite moments as well. I'm a sucker for studio chatters. I really hope they are included in "Power Fantastic (Live In Studio Take 1)". At 7:18, I guess it will be the case. If not, I would be really disappointed.

olb99 said:

controversy99 said:

3. Hearing Prince's directions before Power Fantastic was really cool.

.

That was one of my favorite moments as well. I'm a sucker for studio chatters. I really hope they are included in "Power Fantastic (Live In Studio Take 1)". At 7:18, I guess it will be the case. If not, I would be really disappointed.

THIS.

*

I could go a SDE of studio chatter of this quality and intimacy. For me, it is the stand out moment of the podcast. ...I mean, I'm a huge W&L fan, but even they can't claim they scripted this for him.

donnyenglish said:

olb99 said:

controversy99 said:

3. Hearing Prince's directions before Power Fantastic was really cool.

.

That was one of my favorite moments as well. I'm a sucker for studio chatters. I really hope they are included in "Power Fantastic (Live In Studio Take 1)". At 7:18, I guess it will be the case. If not, I would be really disappointed.

I think it's safe to assume that Prince's directions are included, 7:18 is longer than the bootleg with the instrumental intro. There was also a magazine review of the deluxe album that mentioned Prince's studio talk on "Power Fantastic", if I remember correctly

PS: can we have a dedicated/stickied Wendy & Lisa thread so everyone can debate their merits elsewhere instead of derailing threads like this one?

[Edited 8/29/20 11:49am]

ForceofNature said:

jeffreymiller said:

RJOrion said:

muleFunk said:

RJOrion said:

they've been white-washing Prince's career ever since he died (and even before)...its become sickening...but entirely predictable

What's sickening is the fact that there are some who believe that a backing band was greater than the person that people have called a modern day Mozart.

Except they were only backing him on one song on this album, and Miko's guitar was also featured prominently on that song. What does Eggplant and W&L solos have to do with 'Sign O the Times'? Prince was even overly generous in crediting Susannah on Starfish and Coffee, because all she did was provide a true story, Prince still wrote the music and lyrics.

https://www.latimes.com/a...story.html

“We played on a lot of the material for that album,” Melvoin said. “But he cut a whole lot of it out when he put together the final version of the album.”

mbdtyler said:

RJOrion said:

do Wendy & Lisa (or Suzzanah) ever talk about THEIR OWN drab, uneventful music?...does anyone ever even ask them or interview them about THEIR OWN music?...are they ever invited on TV or podcasts to perform THEIR OWN music?...when is the Wendy & Lisa tribute going to be televised?...when will the memoirs of Wendy & Lisa be published?... surely, musicians as great as they are, have more to talk about than what they did 1982- 1986, while taking orders from their boss, Mr. Nelson, right? [Edited 8/29/20 13:05pm]

Feel free to talk about the other contents of the podcast, like the clips of previously unreleased songs, instead of ranting about musicians you clearly hate and aren't obligated to listen to. You want it to be all about Prince? Then talk about Prince.

Wendy and Lisa's solos have nothing to do with Prince's album 'Sign O the Times'. It is a sign of the times that anyone would even need to be saying that.

https://www.latimes.com/a...story.html

“He had been working more on his own than usual,” Coleman said about the recording sessions last year for Prince’s latest album, “Sign ‘O’ the Times.” “We weren’t with him in the studio as much.”

[Edited 8/29/20 13:50pm]