RJOrion said:

coming soon - Episode 2: More Delusions Of Grandeur from Wendy Melvoin

Pretty much The subtle condescending subtext of her words whenever she talks about Prince is so staggering to me.

Hamad said:

RJOrion said:

coming soon - Episode 2: More Delusions Of Grandeur from Wendy Melvoin

Pretty much The subtle condescending subtext of her words whenever she talks about Prince is so staggering to me.

.

You mean that under the overpowering love, admiration, thankfulness and nostalgia there is also a subtle layer of condescension? I never heard that!

mediumdry said:

Hamad said:

Pretty much The subtle condescending subtext of her words whenever she talks about Prince is so staggering to me.

.

You mean that under the overpowering love, admiration, thankfulness and nostalgia there is also a subtle layer of condescension? I never heard that!

Sure.

BartVanHemelen said:

The trailer for this contains a couple of brief clips from the 1987 NYE DVD: https://www.youtube.com/w...8wTbJ_MI9o

Thanks for this. Quality looks good. Looking forward to finally seeing the full show.

My favorite parts:

1. Prince giving directions at the start of Power Fantastic

2. Susannah saying "making music, making art, loving each other, feeding each other, sleeping with each other". Somehow I really liked hearing her say sleeping with each other because it made their relationship and Prince himself seem more real, more ordinary, and more special all at the same time.

3. Alternate version of Strange Relationship.

4. Susan's descripton of Prince singing in the corner, him being annoyed that she had to be in the room, and her getting to hear the vocal alone as Power Fantsatic was being cut

v10letblues said:

I have no idea why people are debating the minutiae of details regarding the SOTT recordings. Just sit back quietly and listen to the folks that were THERE during the recordings and learn and enjoy;

I agree. The nit picking and bickering serves zero purpose.

MoodyBlumes said:

violetcrush said:

LOLOLOLOL

*

First bold - Um, Wendy was SPECIFICALLY ASKED by the journalist how she felt when she heard the SOTT record for the first time after leaving the camp. So, yeah, she's going to have to reflect on 30 yrs ago to actually answer that question, and I appreciate her honesty about it.

*

Second bold - "it dawned on her that Prince had financial obligations to his label"??? You gotta be shitting me, right?? Yeah, I'm sure Wendy and Susannah had absolutely NO clue about how record labels and payments/contracts worked back then, seeing as their Dad only played on every big record of the 60's and 70's, and was the NARAS President when they did Purple Rain, and she had been in the recording studio multiple times with him from about age 10-13. Yeah, I'm sure she was completely clueless

*

Third bold - Ya gotta get your facts straight here if you want to seem credible with your Wendy and Lisa bashing rants THEY did not quit before the Parade tour and then agree to stay for the tour. That my friend was BrownMark. Wendy & Lisa had NO idea Mark had officially quit. Their first indication that Prince was going to disband was during the last Parade show in Japan when he smashed the two guitars. They've discussed this in detail several times.

Why would I be shitting you? What I said, if you read a little bit more closely, is that Wendy and Lisa wanted to quit, and Prince changed their mind to stay to do the Parade tour. At the end of that tour he let them go, as per the desire they had expressed previously. Lisa Coleman absolutely did a podcast describing in detail about when they went solo, believe they were given $1 million, and were absolutely shocked that they had to pay the money back / that it was just a loan. Indeed, they had some learning to do when the left Prince's camp. Her comment was not honest, because Prince didn't just say 'thank you' at the end of the album, he included their relevant song credits. She was sad because 'Colors' was not put onto the SOTT album, and sad that Prince thanked her.

[Edited 8/31/20 16:26pm]

First bold: NOPE. Prince and Wendy had a big fight (which has been written about and discussed) just before they were to travel to Europe for the tour. W & L stormed out and said they were leaving. Bobby Z (also confirmed) chased them down at the airport to bring them back. They NEVER "officially" quit the band. It was Mark who actually told Prince he was done with the band and agreed to do the full tour before leaving. When W & L turned around to go back that day they were not expecting Prince to fire them 3 months later.

*

Second bold: You'll have to provide the actual podcast/article where Lisa stated this, because I would have no doubt that they would have been smart enough - even back then - to have an attorney, manager, or at the very least - their very experienced Fathers - read over their record contract. And if they were unaware I would think it would have been due to the language being buried in the legal mumb jumbo of their contract. Pretty standard thing if/when you are given a large sum of money to confirm whether or not it is a loan or a gift. So, I'll have to see the receipts on that one.

*

Third bold: Please also direct me to where in the audio interview Wendy actually connects her song Colors with her sadness about the SOTT album?? I must have missed that specific comment by her. Your bizarre disdain for W&L really shows through when you write bogus comments such as this one.

*

My conclusion.....you MUST be paulludvig using an alias user name

ForceofNature said:

I just don't even get why certain people are making such a big deal out of pretty much nothing lol. I hope that if they have such an issue with the people on the podcast they sit out the remaining parts so the threads can exist without these trite complaints

I CAN"T STAND IT when members bash these band members, put words in their mouths, spin their comments, and/or just talk complete bullsh*t about them, because for some bizarre personal reason they don't like them. So, they project their own personal dislike onto these threads and just completely ruin a good thing. HATE IT, HATE IT, HATE IT.

*

MoodyBlumes = Paulludvig....I have NO doubt

violetcrush said:

MoodyBlumes said:

violetcrush said:

I think it's great that Susan Rogers has a solid memory of those years, and is so eloquent in her discussions of the details. I was listening again to her almost 3 hour long interview on Prince Podcast, and this is also what she stated when asked about the SOTT period and album:

*

At the 1:20:05 mark: "A major part of his (Prince's) life concerned Wendy, Lisa, and Susannah. They were a big part of his personal life, of his musical life. They were huge to him, and of course, Bobby Z., his friend since High School. So, as his landscape is changing beneath him he's changing his mind about what he wants to share. So, Dream Factory, then Crystal Ball, and then into SOTT happened as he was going through some personal and artistic and professional changes."

*

Susan, in several other interviews/discussions since Prince's passing, has given HUGE praise to Wendy, Lisa, and Susannah for their abilities as musicians, writers, and vocalists (Susannah), and how much they influenced and contributed to Prince's music in the 1985-86 period.

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvvvdrDQ8nU

Okay, so you'll recall in the podcast that Susan also said (at 1:19:10), "SOTT - you can tell from the cover - represented a little bit more of a dark period because the Revolution had disbanded and Sheila E was in his life now and Susannah was in his life but she wasn't going to be there much longer."

Presume she was speaking romantically, because clearly Sheila was around before that. Prince wrote songs and produced her 2 albums during 1984 and 1985. He was jamming with her family long before SOTT - and she is also on the album, credited on You Got the Look and It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night.

.

Susan doesn't mention Matt Fink, who co-wrote It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night, continued on for the SOTT tour, and had been with Prince since 1978.

.

Are 'Colors' or 'Neveah Ni Ecalp' more relevant to SOTT than Madhouse? Those albums were released, and the music was played on the SOTT tour.

.

I'd love to hear about how Prince influenced W, L, S, given this posthumous retrospective. Prince was the youngest producer in Warners history, a whiz in the studio according to those who worked with him. He learned studiocraft at Moonsound. Peggy McCreary describes 18 hour days recording alone with him, Tudahl describes hundreds of hours of Prince in the studio, alone, finishing Purple Rain. David Z remembers Prince surrounded by his instruments, recording each part -- his 1st album kicking off with a many layered a-cappella of his own vocals.

[Edited 9/1/20 15:39pm]

First bold: NO, Susan wasn't just talking "romantically" with Susannah, as she was ALSO working with Prince during that time. Have you listened to all of the backround vocals she provided during that time?? There are at TON. Amazing too - JIR is just beautiful with Prince and Susannah singing.

Of course Sheila had been around since '84...duh. She was playing during PR tour. However, she was mainly out touring with her own band to support the two albums, as Prince wanted her to go solo. So, she was often NOT around. Yes, of course she jammed with Prince sometimes - same with Eric Leeds. However, Sheila was touring with Lionel Ritchie during his 1986 tour, which went from March-December '86 - 58 shows in the US. She began steadily working with Prince when she was finished the tour in December of '86. Susannah had left MN by that time.

*

Second bold: YEP. Colors and Neveah Ni Ecalp actually ARE more relevant to SOTT than Madhouse sessions. I shouldn't have to explain why, but..... Madhouse was a PROTEGE/SIDE project for Prince - NOT a Prince and The Revolution album. Wendy and Lisa were working and creating music to support PRINCE'S next album - NOT one of his side projects. Of courst Madhouse opened during the SOTT tour. Why wouldn't they?? Eric and Bliston were part of the SOTT band, and they had a side project to promote. Wendy & Lisa were not a side project for Prince. If they were I'm sure he would have had them opening for him as well.

*

Third bold: What a completely irrrelevant comment, seeing as this podcast was about PRINCE, and had absolutely NOTHING to do with Wendy & Lisa during their time after Prince. However, if you go back several pages on this thread you'll find my link to Wendy & Lisa in the late 80's talking about what the experience of working with Prince did for them. And YEP, Prince could go into the studio and do it all himself. And HE was also influenced by musicians (Stevie, Santana, Jimi, etc) before him who showed him the way and whom he emulated in many ways. It's been written over and over again - even stated by Prince himself in prior interviews and in song (In This Bed I Scream) - how by 1985 Prince began opening up to various sounds and ideas by W & L and their family members, and bringing W & L in to the studio with him more. But, I guess Prince was just spouting out a bunch of BS everytime he talked about it. Okay, sure.

*

I'll leave these quotes here for ya Moodyblumes-aka-Paulludvig

*

Prince, 1985: "It is true I record very fast. It goes even quicker now that the girls help me. The girls, meaning Wendy & Lisa."

*

Prince, 2016: (playing the opening notes of Raspberry Beret) "I'd like to take a moment to show some love and appreciation for Lisa and Wendy. I met Lisa first and then she introduced me to Wendy. She was in the band for awhile and then she introduced me to Wendy. When I first met Lisa, she didn't look me in the eye. I think...you'll have to ask her why. I called my manager, and I said I don't think this is gonna work out. And then I said hold on...and I could hear the piano coming from the basement. She was playing something...(begins to imitate Lisa's playing)..free form, just...making up these crazy chords that I had never heard until I met Miles Davis when he came to my house and played similar chords. She told me that her favorite piano player was Bill Evans...(pauses) right?!! I'm trying to imitate her now. I would write music and let them go into the studio and just mess around to see what they could come up with. And Lisa wrote this harpsichord part that went...(plays the opening notes to Raspberry Beret). That's a whole song, right?!

Prince 1995: "In This Bed I Scream" -

[Edited 9/2/20 16:21pm]

RJOrion said:

violetcrush said:

I CAN"T STAND IT when members bash these band members, put words in their mouths, spin their comments, and/or just talk complete bullsh*t about them, because for some bizarre personal reason they don't like them. So, they project their own personal dislike onto these threads and just completely ruin a good thing. HATE IT, HATE IT, HATE IT.

*

MoodyBlumes = Paulludvig....I have NO doubt

hi VC i know we've agreed and disagreed in the past, and i mean no ill will here...but, why/how could you "CANT STAND IT HATE IT HATE IT" so much if someone on the internet doesnt agree with you?...you seem abnormally emotionally invested in some of your replies at this site, complete with multiple emojis and everything...your passion is kinda sexy but try to chill out a little...⚘⚘⚘

Well thanks RJOrion I think I am kinda sexy, so I'll take that as a compliment

*

Nah....I was just being purposely and jokingly "over-the-top" with that post, BUT.... it actually IS rather annoying when the same person/few people (or same person w/ multiple user names) troll these threads to literally say the SAME negative things. Just a complete downer. Most true Prince fans who have taken the time to go through the interviews, Biographies, music, etc...know that Wendy & Lisa were a HUGE part of Prince's orb and music from '84-86, which also happens to be one of his most critically acclaimed periods.

*

Just frustrating, that's all. To see the spins and word vomit that mean nothing other than to promote the hate and bashing of two talented female musicians.

controversy99 said:

My favorite parts:

1. Prince giving directions at the start of Power Fantastic

2. Susannah saying "making music, making art, loving each other, feeding each other, sleeping with each other". Somehow I really liked hearing her say sleeping with each other because it made their relationship and Prince himself seem more real, more ordinary, and more special all at the same time.

3. Alternate version of Strange Relationship.

4. Susan's descripton of Prince singing in the corner, him being annoyed that she had to be in the room, and her getting to hear the vocal alone as Power Fantsatic was being cut

Agreed!! On all 4 points.

controversy99 said:

What official releases include Prince talking to band members or giving direction? I love that part of the Power Fantastic clip. We also have Calhoun Square, Cloreen Baconskin, Internaional Lover (Take 1, Live in Studio), comment to engineer at the beginning of Piano & a Microphone 1983, and ending of It's About That Walk. There's also direction on the live albums. Anything else?

Btw, the podcast was good, but it would've been better if the host had just corrected or challenged two misstatements/untruths. Eric's comment especially was silly and an afront, saying the people in the SotT band having no role in the album. All the host had to say is Eric, you were a member of the SotT band, but you weren't a member of the Revolution. Do you think you had a role on the album?

Eric was a member of the Revolution.

I don't think its that simple...these angry fans' motives are not just bashing two ladies. These fans care about how Prince comes off. There are people out there who say Prince was only good BECAUSE of the Revolution. It's a delicate thing...public image and perception. Wendy saying Sign OF the Times was a Revolution album and in the same interview someone saying that he sent in "sketches " on songs for them to complete...if that description is applied to all the songs in the SOTT album by someone who doesn't know better (because they are a casual 80's fan) than that misrepresents most of the songs in the original SOTT album. Prince, contrary to how they describe themselves, was not a member of their band. Wendy saying they could have been the Beatles...things like that rub some of us the wrong way. Who's Paul? Who's John? Is Prince Paul? Are Wendy and Lisa John?

violetcrush said:

RJOrion said:

violetcrush said: hi VC i know we've agreed and disagreed in the past, and i mean no ill will here...but, why/how could you "CANT STAND IT HATE IT HATE IT" so much if someone on the internet doesnt agree with you?...you seem abnormally emotionally invested in some of your replies at this site, complete with multiple emojis and everything...your passion is kinda sexy but try to chill out a little...⚘⚘⚘

Well thanks RJOrion I think I am kinda sexy, so I'll take that as a compliment

*

Nah....I was just being purposely and jokingly "over-the-top" with that post, BUT.... it actually IS rather annoying when the same person/few people (or same person w/ multiple user names) troll these threads to literally say the SAME negative things. Just a complete downer. Most true Prince fans who have taken the time to go through the interviews, Biographies, music, etc...know that Wendy & Lisa were a HUGE part of Prince's orb and music from '84-86, which also happens to be one of his most critically acclaimed periods.

*

Just frustrating, that's all. To see the spins and word vomit that mean nothing other than to promote the hate and bashing of two talented female musicians.

[Edited 9/2/20 17:58pm]

Quotes from Lisa and Wendy during this podcast:

*

Andrea Swensson: So I would love to hear more about that "stuff" that you said Prince would ask you to put on his songs. Can you just describe a little bit of that musical collaboration between you and Wendy and the way that that came into play in Prince's music in this time?

*

Lisa Coleman: Well, I think Wendy and I were just so motivated, inspired and happy to be where we were, working with Prince, and that he had come to the point to trust us so much. You know, we'd jam constantly every day and that builds like this love intimacy thing between all of us and — we would do everything in the studio. Wendy and I would get into the studio, and we were just so inspired we would try everything from let's put a bass part on to doing like patty-cake rhymes and things from our childhood that we'd think of, and it's like "Oh, let's just throw this thing on there," and Prince was like "What was that?" We were just having fun.

*

Wendy Melvoin: To be as young as I was at the time, and to be that productive, um, was an honorable feeling. And to do it with the person that I was in love with — my girlfriend — and to also be doing it with the artist who I felt was the most important artist of my generation other than two others that I had revered as much was Joni Mitchell and David Bowie. So those three people, and to have me be a part of that every time I stepped back and sort of satellited myself in the room. I had my moments in the quiet moments of the night after a project was done and you'd listen back to your work — and what you know your input was and what made him happy and what made him feel inspired — gave me so much energy and motivation to keep at what I was doing. I felt like my voice was important. And it was even stronger because my musical collaboration with Lisa was so strong at that time. Our sound as a duo was so strong at that point — it still is very strong now. It's almost rarified now; back then, it was used for good.

*

VO: There are 63 unreleased tracks being released from the vault this fall, a large portion of the material was written with significant input from Wendy and Lisa. These recordings showcase just how unique and powerful their voices were to Prince's expanding sound.

**Key parts bolded for those trying to argue that Lisa, and especially Wendy - do not have anything positive to say about their time with Prince.

violetcrush said:

Quotes from Lisa and Wendy during this podcast:

*

Andrea Swensson: So I would love to hear more about that "stuff" that you said Prince would ask you to put on his songs. Can you just describe a little bit of that musical collaboration between you and Wendy and the way that that came into play in Prince's music in this time?

*

Lisa Coleman: Well, I think Wendy and I were just so motivated, inspired and happy to be where we were, working with Prince, and that he had come to the point to trust us so much. You know, we'd jam constantly every day and that builds like this love intimacy thing between all of us and — we would do everything in the studio. Wendy and I would get into the studio, and we were just so inspired we would try everything from let's put a bass part on to doing like patty-cake rhymes and things from our childhood that we'd think of, and it's like "Oh, let's just throw this thing on there," and Prince was like "What was that?" We were just having fun.

*

Wendy Melvoin: To be as young as I was at the time, and to be that productive, um, was an honorable feeling. And to do it with the person that I was in love with — my girlfriend — and to also be doing it with the artist who I felt was the most important artist of my generation other than two others that I had revered as much was Joni Mitchell and David Bowie. So those three people, and to have me be a part of that every time I stepped back and sort of satellited myself in the room. I had my moments in the quiet moments of the night after a project was done and you'd listen back to your work — and what you know your input was and what made him happy and what made him feel inspired — gave me so much energy and motivation to keep at what I was doing. I felt like my voice was important. And it was even stronger because my musical collaboration with Lisa was so strong at that time. Our sound as a duo was so strong at that point — it still is very strong now. It's almost rarified now; back then, it was used for good.

*

VO: There are 63 unreleased tracks being released from the vault this fall, a large portion of the material was written with significant input from Wendy and Lisa. These recordings showcase just how unique and powerful their voices were to Prince's expanding sound.

**Key parts bolded for those trying to argue that Lisa, and especially Wendy - do not have anything positive to say about their time with Prince.

Significant input...vague statement. They need to be more specific. Otherwise, it can lead people into thinking they were brains behind the brawn, that they were quincy jones to his MJ. Those kind of things are what bug people.. Its one thing to say Prince was a genius in an obligatory manner. It's another thing to be specific about why. Without the specifics, it is just empty platitudes. And when Wendy and Lisa are the main point of discussion along with the vagueness about his own input in his own songs...well, that's what bugs people and makes them suspicious of folks.

violetcrush said:

RJOrion said:

violetcrush said: hi VC i know we've agreed and disagreed in the past, and i mean no ill will here...but, why/how could you "CANT STAND IT HATE IT HATE IT" so much if someone on the internet doesnt agree with you?...you seem abnormally emotionally invested in some of your replies at this site, complete with multiple emojis and everything...your passion is kinda sexy but try to chill out a little...⚘⚘⚘

Well thanks RJOrion I think I am kinda sexy, so I'll take that as a compliment

*

Nah....I was just being purposely and jokingly "over-the-top" with that post, BUT.... it actually IS rather annoying when the same person/few people (or same person w/ multiple user names) troll these threads to literally say the SAME negative things. Just a complete downer. Most true Prince fans who have taken the time to go through the interviews, Biographies, music, etc...know that Wendy & Lisa were a HUGE part of Prince's orb and music from '84-86, which also happens to be one of his most critically acclaimed periods.

*

Just frustrating, that's all. To see the spins and word vomit that mean nothing other than to promote the hate and bashing of two talented female musicians.

It's not just one person or sexist men who have concerns about how W and L represents Prince and their importance.

Think for a second about what the song Waterfall says about Prince... are they not telling everyone in that song that Prince ain't shit without us?

Shannon319 said:

violetcrush said:

Quotes from Lisa and Wendy during this podcast:

*

Andrea Swensson: So I would love to hear more about that "stuff" that you said Prince would ask you to put on his songs. Can you just describe a little bit of that musical collaboration between you and Wendy and the way that that came into play in Prince's music in this time?

*

Lisa Coleman: Well, I think Wendy and I were just so motivated, inspired and happy to be where we were, working with Prince, and that he had come to the point to trust us so much. You know, we'd jam constantly every day and that builds like this love intimacy thing between all of us and — we would do everything in the studio. Wendy and I would get into the studio, and we were just so inspired we would try everything from let's put a bass part on to doing like patty-cake rhymes and things from our childhood that we'd think of, and it's like "Oh, let's just throw this thing on there," and Prince was like "What was that?" We were just having fun.

*

Wendy Melvoin: To be as young as I was at the time, and to be that productive, um, was an honorable feeling. And to do it with the person that I was in love with — my girlfriend — and to also be doing it with the artist who I felt was the most important artist of my generation other than two others that I had revered as much was Joni Mitchell and David Bowie. So those three people, and to have me be a part of that every time I stepped back and sort of satellited myself in the room. I had my moments in the quiet moments of the night after a project was done and you'd listen back to your work — and what you know your input was and what made him happy and what made him feel inspired — gave me so much energy and motivation to keep at what I was doing. I felt like my voice was important. And it was even stronger because my musical collaboration with Lisa was so strong at that time. Our sound as a duo was so strong at that point — it still is very strong now. It's almost rarified now; back then, it was used for good.

*

VO: There are 63 unreleased tracks being released from the vault this fall, a large portion of the material was written with significant input from Wendy and Lisa. These recordings showcase just how unique and powerful their voices were to Prince's expanding sound.

**Key parts bolded for those trying to argue that Lisa, and especially Wendy - do not have anything positive to say about their time with Prince.

Significant input...vague statement. They need to be more specific. Otherwise, it can lead people into thinking they were brains behind the brawn, that they were quincy jones to his MJ. Those kind of things are what bug people.. Its one thing to say Prince was a genius in an obligatory manner. It's another thing to be specific about why. Without the specifics, it is just empty platitudes. And when Wendy and Lisa are the main point of discussion along with the vagueness about his own input in his own songs...well, that's what bugs people and makes them suspicious of folks.

But it wasn't just Wendy and Lisa. Susan Rogers was also providing tons of input. And the reason Wendy and Lisa were more of the focus is because they were the two in the band that Prince was recording with more frequently. They did discuss an example of the input - Power Fantastic came about from Lisa's piano recording she had done during her time with Wendy and Susan at the London studio while Prince was finishing filming UTCM. Susan Rogers stated point blank that it was Lisa's piano piece that Prince worked off of to write the lyrics and melody for the song. Matt Fink confirmed It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night stemmed from the band's jam session while in Europe. It's not like they had a set time schedule for input, and were writing every detail down on paper. The whole band has stated that a lot of ideas for songs came as a result of rehearsal jams. Lisa also stated that Prince would send tapes back and forth to them and they would add their parts to basic ideas that came from Prince - piano, guitar and/or drums. So, how do you nail down every detail of something like that?? I don't think any of them were keeping a dated log of their musical input.

We've resorted to transcripts of the podcasts. Amazing.

Shannon319 said:

violetcrush said:

Well thanks RJOrion I think I am kinda sexy, so I'll take that as a compliment

*

Nah....I was just being purposely and jokingly "over-the-top" with that post, BUT.... it actually IS rather annoying when the same person/few people (or same person w/ multiple user names) troll these threads to literally say the SAME negative things. Just a complete downer. Most true Prince fans who have taken the time to go through the interviews, Biographies, music, etc...know that Wendy & Lisa were a HUGE part of Prince's orb and music from '84-86, which also happens to be one of his most critically acclaimed periods.

*

Just frustrating, that's all. To see the spins and word vomit that mean nothing other than to promote the hate and bashing of two talented female musicians.

It's not just one person or sexist men who have concerns about how W and L represents Prince and their importance.

Think for a second about what the song Waterfall says about Prince... are they not telling everyone in that song that Prince ain't shit without us?

I don't think that is what the meaning of Waterfall is at all. It's their description of being blindsided by Prince's decision to fire them. and how he could so easily move on:

*

The time bomb
Of your life has come
People may come, people may go
Just as long as the water's slow
But watch out when you're
Headed for the waterfall

*

Love lost always makes one sad
You seem
You seem to rise instead
Feel the water, ice cool water
People may come, people may go

*

I think you may be thinking of their song called Song About :

*

It makes me want to cry
Thinking about you
"Beautiful"? you said
The way you shook your head
So strange, that no one stayed
At the end of the parade

[Chorus]
This is just another song about it
This is just another song about

[Verse 2]
Standing next to me
Imagine that it's true
You where singing songs
About life or doom
I was singing songs to you

[Chorus]
This is just another song about it
This is just another song about

[Verse 2]
I gave colors to you you'd never seen
You washed my heart
With many dreams
Dreams I'd never seen
The pain of my spirit and the pain of my heart
Don't ever tell me to let it all go

*

I don't even see this song as Wendy & Lisa talking about how they did everything. I think they were just expressing their experience with Prince at that time - how it was a dream come true, how he did collaborate with them and shared music, and how he abruptly let them go. It actually seems to demonstrate how close they all really were. And if you read and listen to In This Bed I Scream you'll hear the same sentiments from Prince 9 years later. So, clearly it resonated deeply with him too.

Milty2 said:

We've resorted to transcripts of the podcasts. Amazing.

Because people are on here literally stating that Wendy & Lisa had ONLY negative things to say about Prince and/or folks are just choosing to flat out ignore it in order to support the negative spin.

violetcrush said:

Shannon319 said:

It's not just one person or sexist men who have concerns about how W and L represents Prince and their importance.

Think for a second about what the song Waterfall says about Prince... are they not telling everyone in that song that Prince ain't shit without us?

I don't think that is what the meaning of Waterfall is at all. It's their description of being blindsided by Prince's decision to fire them. and how he could so easily move on:

*

The time bomb
Of your life has come
People may come, people may go
Just as long as the water's slow
But watch out when you're
Headed for the waterfall

*

Love lost always makes one sad
You seem
You seem to rise instead
Feel the water, ice cool water
People may come, people may go

*

I think you may be thinking of their song called Song About :

*

It makes me want to cry
Thinking about you
"Beautiful"? you said
The way you shook your head
So strange, that no one stayed
At the end of the parade

[Chorus]
This is just another song about it
This is just another song about

[Verse 2]
Standing next to me
Imagine that it's true
You where singing songs
About life or doom
I was singing songs to you

[Chorus]
This is just another song about it
This is just another song about

[Verse 2]
I gave colors to you you'd never seen
You washed my heart
With many dreams
Dreams I'd never seen
The pain of my spirit and the pain of my heart
Don't ever tell me to let it all go

*

I don't even see this song as Wendy & Lisa talking about how they did everything. I think they were just expressing their experience with Prince at that time - how it was a dream come true, how he did collaborate with them and shared music, and how he abruptly let them go. It actually seems to demonstrate how close they all really were. And if you read and listen to In This Bed I Scream you'll hear the same sentiments from Prince 9 years later. So, clearly it resonated deeply with him too.

yep! I caught this when I first heard it when it came out... they said "no one stayed at the end of the Parade" Ouch! But it also says that "this is just another song about it..."

No one is disputing Power Fantastic's origins lie with Lisa (I am not disputing that W and L are super talented women either). Although I think we need to hear Lisa's original so we can get a better idea how much Prince or others added.

But it is more what they chose to focus on. Wendy once did an interview about SOTT and basically she implied that the only song Prince wrote without them was the title song. The argument that songs of his came from jams implies that the band helped to write all but one of the songs he released on that album.. Do you believe that? That he couldn't and didn't at that time come up with vocal melodies and accompaniment without them helping him do so in jams? Do they deserve credits for I could never take the place of your man even though it was written in 79 and there is proof of that? Remember this is a guy who didn't write down his music, didn't read music, and couldn't sleep until he got stuff out of his head and on record.

I think they deserve credit for the stuff they did on Dream Factory and for the accompaniment, arranging or production that he shelved. But he wrote the songs and he often led the jams. So even if jam sessions led to songs, they need to be specific about that stuff. He was the boss. He was the genius behind his music. Even if they brought their sensibilities, he knew when he hired them that hired two S. California hippie types who would bring those sensibilities.. I am tired of people implying that Prince was a blank slate that everyone else colored on.

Here's another harp. The whole Prince needed to be told about Jazz, the Beatles, Joni Mitchell and Dorothy Parker by his associates in the mid 80's? That shit makes no sense. His dad was a jazz musician. He grew up listening to "white" radio so of course he's heard some Beatles, Joni Mitchell references are early in his career and MN friends of his loved her too as a kid, Dorothy Parker was known for her wit and wrote poems with Ballade in the title and she referenced a "prince" in one of them...all those references in his song and yet he has never heard of her?

They talk about everything they taught him musically and culturally. But other than dressing up and work effort, when have they talked about what he taught them musically or culturally?

violetcrush said:

Shannon319 said:

Significant input...vague statement. They need to be more specific. Otherwise, it can lead people into thinking they were brains behind the brawn, that they were quincy jones to his MJ. Those kind of things are what bug people.. Its one thing to say Prince was a genius in an obligatory manner. It's another thing to be specific about why. Without the specifics, it is just empty platitudes. And when Wendy and Lisa are the main point of discussion along with the vagueness about his own input in his own songs...well, that's what bugs people and makes them suspicious of folks.

But it wasn't just Wendy and Lisa. Susan Rogers was also providing tons of input. And the reason Wendy and Lisa were more of the focus is because they were the two in the band that Prince was recording with more frequently. They did discuss an example of the input - Power Fantastic came about from Lisa's piano recording she had done during her time with Wendy and Susan at the London studio while Prince was finishing filming UTCM. Susan Rogers stated point blank that it was Lisa's piano piece that Prince worked off of to write the lyrics and melody for the song. Matt Fink confirmed It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night stemmed from the band's jam session while in Europe. It's not like they had a set time schedule for input, and were writing every detail down on paper. The whole band has stated that a lot of ideas for songs came as a result of rehearsal jams. Lisa also stated that Prince would send tapes back and forth to them and they would add their parts to basic ideas that came from Prince - piano, guitar and/or drums. So, how do you nail down every detail of something like that?? I don't think any of them were keeping a dated log of their musical input.

They are warning him that he is going to take a fall because their love has left--that they kept him grounded and the waters calm. . They say he is heading for a fall because they aren't around to provide him the dry land etc. The line about seeing his future and the water is over his head and its calm...pretty foreboding..without our love (or musical accompaniment) you will figuratively go down a waterfall and drown in your fame or excess. Prince did eventually die due to fame and overworking. But it was years later and had nothing to do with them being let go of.

Alan Leeds said they threatened to quit. Threatening to quit a musical perfectionist with abandonment issues and a strong independence streak during a tour....is it so surprising that he would cut his losses?

violetcrush said:

Shannon319 said:

It's not just one person or sexist men who have concerns about how W and L represents Prince and their importance.

Think for a second about what the song Waterfall says about Prince... are they not telling everyone in that song that Prince ain't shit without us?

I don't think that is what the meaning of Waterfall is at all. It's their description of being blindsided by Prince's decision to fire them. and how he could so easily move on:

*

The time bomb
Of your life has come
People may come, people may go
Just as long as the water's slow
But watch out when you're
Headed for the waterfall

*

Love lost always makes one sad
You seem
You seem to rise instead
Feel the water, ice cool water
People may come, people may go

*

I think you may be thinking of their song called Song About :

*

It makes me want to cry
Thinking about you
"Beautiful"? you said
The way you shook your head
So strange, that no one stayed
At the end of the parade

[Chorus]
This is just another song about it
This is just another song about

[Verse 2]
Standing next to me
Imagine that it's true
You where singing songs
About life or doom
I was singing songs to you

[Chorus]
This is just another song about it
This is just another song about

[Verse 2]
I gave colors to you you'd never seen
You washed my heart
With many dreams
Dreams I'd never seen
The pain of my spirit and the pain of my heart
Don't ever tell me to let it all go

*

I don't even see this song as Wendy & Lisa talking about how they did everything. I think they were just expressing their experience with Prince at that time - how it was a dream come true, how he did collaborate with them and shared music, and how he abruptly let them go. It actually seems to demonstrate how close they all really were. And if you read and listen to In This Bed I Scream you'll hear the same sentiments from Prince 9 years later. So, clearly it resonated deeply with him too.

I gave colors to you, you had never seen...

They brought colors... Well, the dude wasn't completely enveloped in black and white before they arrived..

OnlyNDaUsa said:

violetcrush said:

I don't think that is what the meaning of Waterfall is at all. It's their description of being blindsided by Prince's decision to fire them. and how he could so easily move on:

*

The time bomb
Of your life has come
People may come, people may go
Just as long as the water's slow
But watch out when you're
Headed for the waterfall

*

Love lost always makes one sad
You seem
You seem to rise instead
Feel the water, ice cool water
People may come, people may go

*

I think you may be thinking of their song called Song About :

*

It makes me want to cry
Thinking about you
"Beautiful"? you said
The way you shook your head
So strange, that no one stayed
At the end of the parade

[Chorus]
This is just another song about it
This is just another song about

[Verse 2]
Standing next to me
Imagine that it's true
You where singing songs
About life or doom
I was singing songs to you

[Chorus]
This is just another song about it
This is just another song about

[Verse 2]
I gave colors to you you'd never seen
You washed my heart
With many dreams
Dreams I'd never seen
The pain of my spirit and the pain of my heart
Don't ever tell me to let it all go

*

I don't even see this song as Wendy & Lisa talking about how they did everything. I think they were just expressing their experience with Prince at that time - how it was a dream come true, how he did collaborate with them and shared music, and how he abruptly let them go. It actually seems to demonstrate how close they all really were. And if you read and listen to In This Bed I Scream you'll hear the same sentiments from Prince 9 years later. So, clearly it resonated deeply with him too.

yep! I caught this when I first heard it when it came out... they said "no one stayed at the end of the Parade" Ouch! But it also says that "this is just another song about it..."

They say positive things but people don't trust their intentions entirely. I am on the fence about most of these associates. They all have some ego and ambition of their own. Prince was not an angel... but its not a business of angels.

violetcrush said:

Milty2 said:

We've resorted to transcripts of the podcasts. Amazing.

Because people are on here literally stating that Wendy & Lisa had ONLY negative things to say about Prince and/or folks are just choosing to flat out ignore it in order to support the negative spin.

Shannon319 said:

They say positive things but people don't trust their intentions entirely. I am on the fence about most of these associates. They all have some ego and ambition of their own. Prince was not an angel... but its not a business of angels.

violetcrush said:

Because people are on here literally stating that Wendy & Lisa had ONLY negative things to say about Prince and/or folks are just choosing to flat out ignore it in order to support the negative spin.

Literally in the same breath.

Hey Shannon, they're human, they have ego and ambition of their own, it's not a business of angels, why are you expecting them to act like angels?

Shannon319 said:

I gave colors to you, you had never seen...

They brought colors... Well, the dude wasn't completely enveloped in black and white before they arrived..

OnlyNDaUsa said:

yep! I caught this when I first heard it when it came out... they said "no one stayed at the end of the Parade" Ouch! But it also says that "this is just another song about it..."

I don't think they are stating that Prince saw only "black and white" before they came along, and could not see any colors. They are stating that they brought him some sounds (colors) that he either hadn't considered or wasn't using at that time. Big difference. I don't think anyone - including W&L have ever eluded to the fact that Prince could not do it all on his own if he wanted to - they are just stating that he expanded his repetoire of sounds and ideas during that time, and if you listen to the music - especially the unreleased tracks - you hear that.

jaawwnn said:

Shannon319 said:

They say positive things but people don't trust their intentions entirely. I am on the fence about most of these associates. They all have some ego and ambition of their own. Prince was not an angel... but its not a business of angels.

Literally in the same breath.

Hey Shannon, they're human, they have ego and ambition of their own, it's not a business of angels, why are you expecting them to act like angels?

Right jaawwnn. Well.....we ALL know Prince was FAR from an angel when it came to his business and/or working with his associates. And I think he'd be the first to admit it - especially later in his life. But again, I do not think that Wendy and Lisa are being intentionally misleading or negative in order to satsify their own ambitions. They've both been successful in music, and are settled. They are being asked to describe their experiences working with Prince. I don't suspect them of being dishonest just to garner attention.

violetcrush said:

Shannon319 said:

Significant input...vague statement. They need to be more specific. Otherwise, it can lead people into thinking they were brains behind the brawn, that they were quincy jones to his MJ. Those kind of things are what bug people.. Its one thing to say Prince was a genius in an obligatory manner. It's another thing to be specific about why. Without the specifics, it is just empty platitudes. And when Wendy and Lisa are the main point of discussion along with the vagueness about his own input in his own songs...well, that's what bugs people and makes them suspicious of folks.

But it wasn't just Wendy and Lisa. Susan Rogers was also providing tons of input. And the reason Wendy and Lisa were more of the focus is because they were the two in the band that Prince was recording with more frequently. They did discuss an example of the input - Power Fantastic came about from Lisa's piano recording she had done during her time with Wendy and Susan at the London studio while Prince was finishing filming UTCM. Susan Rogers stated point blank that it was Lisa's piano piece that Prince worked off of to write the lyrics and melody for the song. Matt Fink confirmed It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night stemmed from the band's jam session while in Europe. It's not like they had a set time schedule for input, and were writing every detail down on paper. The whole band has stated that a lot of ideas for songs came as a result of rehearsal jams. Lisa also stated that Prince would send tapes back and forth to them and they would add their parts to basic ideas that came from Prince - piano, guitar and/or drums. So, how do you nail down every detail of something like that?? I don't think any of them were keeping a dated log of their musical input.

It's Gonna Be A Beautiful night is shown on SOTT as a Revolution track. The album SOTT, however, is not a Revolution album.