That Family album has some stuff I wish he'd kept.

SOmewhat related, I think 17 Days and Girl would have been a good fit too, and a good pick for Family songs. Both were recorded earlier though.

I love that performance of Mutiny from that Parade concert which was broadcast on TV back then.

I love that whole concert, to be honest. No ten minute guitar solos - I don't even think he picks up a guitar during the whole show.

It's Prince being a pop star rather than a musician, and it's so mid-eighties. He looks coked-out of his brain during the part when he's humping the mic stand. I love it. Haha!

Possibly hot take: Prince should have kept all of The Family for himself and mixed some of his own tracks into it. It would have been one of his best albums. Also, Mutiny should have been the closing track. Here's a playlist no one asked for:

1. Love and Sex

2. High Fashion

3. Screams of Passion

4. We Can Funk

5. Yes

6. Emotional Pump

7. Susanna's Pajamas

8. Desire

9. Nothing Compares 2 U

10. Mutiny

Since they were both released in 1985, I see ‘The Family’ as the alternative to ‘Around The World In A Day’, and if I’m being honest I personally prefer ‘The Family’.

I love ‘Condition of the Heart’, but overall I wasn’t a fan on the European influence on ATWIAD. I put together an album called ‘Desire’ on my media player that slots between ATWIAD and Parade, which is essentially ‘The Family’ album with Prince’s vocals. I fixed the intro on ‘High Fashion’ using the proper Family album, and segued ‘High Fashion’ and ‘Mutiny’ together to mimic how the two songs are supposed to run into each other.

1) High Fashion
2) Mutiny
3) The Screams Of Passion
4) Yes
5) Feline
6) Nothing Compares 2 U
7) Miss Understood
8) Desire

VaultCurator said:

Since they were both released in 1985, I see ‘The Family’ as the alternative to ‘Around The World In A Day’, and if I’m being honest I personally prefer ‘The Family’.

I love ‘Condition of the Heart’, but overall I wasn’t a fan on the European influence on ATWIAD. I put together an album called ‘Desire’ on my media player that slots between ATWIAD and Parade, which is essentially ‘The Family’ album with Prince’s vocals. I fixed the intro on ‘High Fashion’ using the proper Family album, and segued ‘High Fashion’ and ‘Mutiny’ together to mimic how the two songs are supposed to run into each other.

1) High Fashion
2) Mutiny
3) The Screams Of Passion
4) Yes
5) Feline
6) Nothing Compares 2 U
7) Miss Understood
8) Desire

I don't follow.
I don't think the Family was an alternative to ATWIAD.

ATWIAD (and Romance 1600) came out of the PR era and one might say they were an alternative to Purple Rain. As did the Family, but the sound switched mid 1985.

Condition of the Heart, was said to be type of early movie script for Under the Cherry Moon.
And I LOVE that piece. Condition of the Heart/Temptation, cuts from the same cloth as God(the Dance Electric)

But where do you get European influences in other places on ATWIAD?
The title cut is Middle Eastern influenced

ATWIAD stands alone, but interconnected with Purple Rain, way more than the Family and Parade.

If I'm not mistaken, leading up to this point, his protege albums usually proceeded his album release. And then those would be in connection with his as an era. Well it was different with the PR era because he knew that the Time and Apollonia 6 were not going to exist as proper protege for the time. But I believe the Glamorous Life did proceed it. the Sheila E albums blurred it. Her 3rd album self titled, the look and sound felt like a different side of Parade, but it proceeded SOTT as did Madhouse and Jill Jones. But with the break up of Dream Factory and his band I suspect Prince was still trying to figure out the direction in 1987.

So the Family is most likely connected to Parade.

OldFriends4Sale said:

LoveGalore said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't follow.
I don't think the Family was an alternative to ATWIAD.

ATWIAD (and Romance 1600) came out of the PR era and one might say they were an alternative to Purple Rain. As did the Family, but the sound switched mid 1985.

Condition of the Heart, was said to be type of early movie script for Under the Cherry Moon.
And I LOVE that piece. Condition of the Heart/Temptation, cuts from the same cloth as God(the Dance Electric)

But where do you get European influences in other places on ATWIAD?
The title cut is Middle Eastern influenced

ATWIAD stands alone, but interconnected with Purple Rain, way more than the Family and Parade.

If I'm not mistaken, leading up to this point, his protege albums usually proceeded his album release. And then those would be in connection with his as an era. Well it was different with the PR era because he knew that the Time and Apollonia 6 were not going to exist as proper protege for the time. But I believe the Glamorous Life did proceed it. the Sheila E albums blurred it. Her 3rd album self titled, the look and sound felt like a different side of Parade, but it proceeded SOTT as did Madhouse and Jill Jones. But with the break up of Dream Factory and his band I suspect Prince was still trying to figure out the direction in 1987.

So the Family is most likely connected to Parade.

The Family songs weren't recorded in 1985 though. They were recorded alongside the ATWIAD album.

what are you refering to in my post?
I did say the early beginnings of the Family music came out of the PR era as ATWIAD did.

vocal overdubs by St Paul and Susannah were worked in to early 1985.

And Clare Fischers work was taking place in early 1985

The album was then completed by May 1985

Unless there is information that ATWIAD was going to have it's own select era, it was a stand alone piece. But the look/style and sound of the Family band was the direction Prince was going into for Parade.

I'm just saying I don't think the Family was an alternative to ATWIAD, but a protege proceeding connected to Parade

Romance 1600 I sorta see in the same way.

Mazarati, I don't know. I mean a lot of what they wore Prince wore during Lovesexy. I just don't know how they fit within the Prince-Protege connection of the time period. Or if they too were a standalone.
Their sound didn't match ATWIAD the Family Romance 1600 or Parade

maybe Mazarati was the alternative to Parade

OldFriends4Sale said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't follow.
I don't think the Family was an alternative to ATWIAD.

Hi OldFriends4Sale,

Maybe I didn’t make myself too clear. When I said I think of The Family as the alternative to ATWIAD I didn’t mean as far as the sound of the album goes. I just meant in terms of when they were released in Prince’s discography, both being 1985 releases and only 4 months apart.

As far as the sound and style of the album goes, I can see why you and spookEElectric would pair it with Parade.

OldFriends4Sale said:

But where do you get European influences in other places on ATWIAD?
The title cut is Middle Eastern influenced

From my understanding, ATWIAD was influenced by bands that The Revolution were listening to at the time which included The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin. The middle eastern influence on the song ATWIAD may have been adopted songs The Beatles released in the late 60s after their tour of India.

Edit for line breaks

[Edited 8/10/20 8:34am]

LoveGalore said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

what are you refering to in my post?
I did say the early beginnings of the Family music came out of the PR era as ATWIAD did.

You said the sound switched in 1985 as a qualifier for why The Family songs relate more to Parade. Those Parade tracks were recorded a year later. The Family just builds off what he was doing with Appollonia's album. A Million Miles could've fit on The Family's album easily. The Euro vibe, whatever people really mean when they say that, doesn't come in until you get the Clare Fischer orchestra on it. But again, this was added much later. IMO, The Family's album sounds closer to ATWIAD (and thus Purple Rain) than Parade despite the orchestra present in the released versions. Prince's Screams of Passion could easily have been a b-side to Pop Life or any single.

The Parade album music they started working on right after ATWIAD was released. They had a first configuration by May 1985. Condition of the Heart was a template to an UTCM movie script, and Prince had lightly talked about it in a 1985 interview(not the one with Kurt L@MTV at the Nice France show) And in the Electr Mojo 85 around the Birthday show time, Prince, when talking about ATWIAD, mentions indirectly Parade (you should hear the new music or new album)

Kiss -4 Mazarati was being worked on by the end of April 1985

Remember that Sometimes It Snows In April was performed @ the Birthday/Masquerade Ball on June 7th 1985

The Parade album music and outtakes) are almost as extensive as the Purple Rain era music and outtakes.
The Flesh sessions took place in late 1985.(Junk music being used in the movie UTCM)

the shooting for the movie started in Sept 1985 after a location was finally scouted out and finalized. This is partially why the Family halted, because Prince took Susannah and Jerome with him to France. If he took the whole band and had them in the movie things would have proceeded differently.

Clare Fischer wasn't European was he? He did work on Rufus and Chaka Khan music. I neve thought of the strings as a "European vibe" It just falls under Classical Music.

I just don't hear the Family album feeling anything like Purple Rain. No the early version of NC2U yes it feel like Another Lonely Christmas. But Screams of Passion doesn't feel to me like a connection to ATWIAD.

Now, the Apollonia 6 albums, I was thinking about this yesterday actually, musically is very good. It should have been Brenda 6. I guess I can hear echoes of A6 in the Family album, but to me the sound it manifactured too drastically.

LoveGalore said:

The Family just builds off what he was doing with Appollonia's album. A Million Miles could've fit on The Family's album easily. The Euro vibe, whatever people really mean when they say that, doesn't come in until you get the Clare Fischer orchestra on it. But again, this was added much later. IMO, The Family's album sounds closer to ATWIAD (and thus Purple Rain) than Parade despite the orchestra present in the released versions. Prince's Screams of Passion could easily have been a b-side to Pop Life or any single.

.

I think it's interesting to note the difference in appreciation for the Appolonia 6 album and the Family album. The Family is often hailed as his finest spin-off album, where the Appolonia 6 album is seen as "an album Prince lost interest in before it was finished, removing the best tracks".

.

To me, Side 2 of the Appolonia 6 album is great, start to finish (I don't like side 1 one much) and is more "sophisticated" (for lack of a better word) than most of his other spin-off albums to that point. It sounds, to me, miles beyond Purple Rain (there's side 1 for that) So I can see the idea of Appolonia 6 + The Time + Clare Fischer = The Family having some merit.

.

I do think though, that the strings put it beyond ATWIAD though, or between ATWIAD and Parade. With the Jill Jones album ending that era. (SOTT and onwards is yet another thing)

VaultCurator said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't follow.
I don't think the Family was an alternative to ATWIAD.

Hi OldFriends4Sale,

Maybe I didn’t make myself too clear. When I said I think of The Family as the alternative to ATWIAD I didn’t mean as far as the sound of the album goes. I just meant in terms of when they were released in Prince’s discography, both being 1985 releases and only 4 months apart.

As far as the sound and style of the album goes, I can see why you and spookEElectric would pair it with Parade.

***OF4$ oh ok. I never thought about it as an alternative. Prince said he released ATWIAD as a love letter to his fans. Like if you look at the protege releases prior they all proceed Prince's album/movie. I just saw the Family as him doing the same thing. It was released mid August 1985 and talk of a new Prince album and upcoming movie was already on the waves.

OldFriends4Sale said:

But where do you get European influences in other places on ATWIAD?
The title cut is Middle Eastern influenced

From my understanding, ATWIAD was influenced by bands that The Revolution were listening to at the time which included The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin. The middle eastern influence on the song ATWIAD may have been adopted songs The Beatles released in the late 60s after their tour of India.

Edit for line breaks

[Edited 8/10/20 8:34am]



***OF4$ Oh Ok. I never looked at those groups particularly as an "European Influence". But I know what you mean. I don't hear a 'European' influence on ATWIAD though, in that sense of cultural/ethnic sounds. But I can hear a 60s cultural influence. Prince was into the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin since the 70s. And he said he really didn't follow the Beatles much. Dez and Bobby Z talked about their interactions with Prince concerning the Beatles, but maybe Prince secretly did get into them. He was into John Lennon(but maybe as a solo performer)

Around the World in a Day was actually created by David Coleman for his birthday. He was proficient in Middle Eastern instruments(We Can Fuck came out some sessions with David) Ouds and certain middle eastern hand cymbals(Prince used one that David or Jonathon gave him during the 1986 First Ave open rehearsal show)

Tick Tick Bang feels like an evolution from Tick Tick Bang -> Darling Nikki - Tamborine
America??
The Ladder feels like an evolution of Free -> (maybe)Purple Rain -> the Ladder
and Tempation as he said at the Nice Frane rehearsals (Is like one of those bar room songs)

OldFriends4Sale said:

VaultCurator said:

From my understanding, ATWIAD was influenced by bands that The Revolution were listening to at the time which included The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin. The middle eastern influence on the song ATWIAD may have been adopted songs The Beatles released in the late 60s after their tour of India.

Edit for line breaks

[Edited 8/10/20 8:34am]



***OF4$ Oh Ok. I never looked at those groups particularly as an "European Influence". But I know what you mean. I don't hear a 'European' influence on ATWIAD though, in that sense of cultural/ethnic sounds. But I can hear a 60s cultural influence. Prince was into the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin since the 70s. And he said he really didn't follow the Beatles much. Dez and Bobby Z talked about their interactions with Prince concerning the Beatles, but maybe Prince secretly did get into them. He was into John Lennon(but maybe as a solo performer)

Around the World in a Day was actually created by David Coleman for his birthday. He was proficient in Middle Eastern instruments(We Can Fuck came out some sessions with David) Ouds and certain middle eastern hand cymbals(Prince used one that David or Jonathon gave him during the 1986 First Ave open rehearsal show)

Tick Tick Bang feels like an evolution from Tick Tick Bang -> Darling Nikki - Tamborine
America??
The Ladder feels like an evolution of Free -> (maybe)Purple Rain -> the Ladder
and Tempation as he said at the Nice Frane rehearsals (Is like one of those bar room songs)

I think I remember Jill Jones gives herself credit for the finger cymbals... she supposedly gave Prince a pair early on which he hung over the studio console. They are apparant in "Take Me With U", dunno if they appear on an earlier released track.

ufoclub said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think I remember Jill Jones gives herself credit for the finger cymbals... she supposedly gave Prince a pair early on which he hung over the studio console. They are apparant in "Take Me With U", dunno if they appear on an earlier released track.

On Prince's first album For You, finger cymbals are list on the song Crazy You. At 1:20min there is 1 ting on the finger cymbals. I love that song by the way.

But in my eye aching ear rejoicing search I don't believe he used them again until the Purple Rain era. We hear it heavy in the 1984-1986 period including the Dream Factory music.

.

I went through a search last yr on his use of the finger cymbals.

.

David Coleman was used on the Purple Rain and Glamorous Life music too, so I don't know.

I never heard that from Jill Jones. It could be. If you have a quote please do share, I love to add the info. But the ones Susannah said David Coleman give Prince were a specific Middle Eastern kind. Much bigger than the general finger cymbals we are familiar with. Susannah is playing a pair in the Girls & Boys video.

SUSANNAH MELVOIN SHARES A SPECIAL MEMORY WITH PRINCE

While recording Prince’s version of “Around the World in a Day” Jonathan and David did play the finger Cymbals, while David played his Darbuka and Oud, creating the definitively explosive new sound for Prince. Wendy, Lisa and I sang the backing vocals. I don’t know when exactly, but, at some point when leaving the studio that night, David offered Prince his Finger Cymbals as a gift. Those Finger Cymbals stayed with Prince for as long as I new him."

OldFriends4Sale said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

ufoclub said:

I think I remember Jill Jones gives herself credit for the finger cymbals... she supposedly gave Prince a pair early on which he hung over the studio console. They are apparant in "Take Me With U", dunno if they appear on an earlier released track.

On Prince's first album For You, finger cymbals are list on the song Crazy You. At 1:20min there is 1 ting on the finger cymbals. I love that song by the way.

But in my eye aching ear rejoicing search I don't believe he used them again until the Purple Rain era. We hear it heavy in the 1984-1986 period including the Dream Factory music.

.

I went through a search last yr on his use of the finger cymbals.

.

David Coleman was used on the Purple Rain and Glamorous Life music too, so I don't know.

I never heard that from Jill Jones. It could be. If you have a quote please do share, I love to add the info. But the ones Susannah said David Coleman give Prince were a specific Middle Eastern kind. Much bigger than the general finger cymbals we are familiar with. Susannah is playing a pair in the Girls & Boys video.

SUSANNAH MELVOIN SHARES A SPECIAL MEMORY WITH PRINCE

Susannah posted a fantastic story about the sounds for ATWIAD and the making of "Make Yo' Mamma Happy" with great and interesting detail.

*

FINGER CYMBALS

By Susannah Melvoin

They are small, circular, and mostly made of brass.

Finger Cymbals, were always part of my family’s arsenal of noise makers. On weekends, the Coleman kids and the Melvoin kids would be dragged willingly to either home so our parents could hang out. But, it was really to get the kids together for some inevitable musical play time.

Here, is where I would find the Finger Cymbals sitting on top of a piano, a kitchen table or a bedside in either house. I loved playing with them. The top cymbal dangled itself perfectly off my middle finger and the bottom mate sat perfectly perched upside down on my thumb. Finger Cymbals do have a satisfying feel to them. I would say, it’s similar to what fidget spinners feel like for anxious kids or grownups, but with the added musical outlet. It satisfies a kind of finger feel for us fidgety musicians. That’s if you don’t have a guitar or large instrument to attend to. It’s a Beautiful, clear-ting of noise joy. These small percussive jewels have a weighty grace and a physicality to them that you can’t deny. But, I digress.

While recording Prince’s version of “Around the World in a Day” Jonathan and David did play the finger Cymbals, while David played his Darbuka and Oud, creating the definitively explosive new sound for Prince. Wendy, Lisa and I sang the backing vocals. I don’t know when exactly, but, at some point when leaving the studio that night, David offered Prince his Finger Cymbals as a gift. Those Finger Cymbals stayed with Prince for as long as I new him."

Ah, no you're right, that's Susanna's story, not Jill Jones. Except the part about them hanging over the console is missing.... hmmm. But wait.... let me check something.

"Take Me With U" features finger cymbals prominantly in the mix, correct?

That was recorded January 1984.

"Around the World in a Day" the song was recorded in demo form on June 1984... 5 months later.

we can fuck is from 30 december 1983 with fairly prominent finger cymbals.

mediumdry said:

we can fuck is from 30 december 1983 with fairly prominent finger cymbals.

True... I can't locate where I heard the story of the particular pair of finger cymbals given to Prince.

ufoclub said:

"Take Me With U" features finger cymbals prominantly in the mix, correct?

That was recorded January 1984.

"Around the World in a Day" the song was recorded in demo form on June 1984... 5 months later.

Yes Finger cymbals throught Take Me With U
That's one David Coleman, Suzi Katayama and Novi Novog are on

But what are you asking in particular?

ufoclub said:

mediumdry said:

we can fuck is from 30 december 1983 with fairly prominent finger cymbals.

True... I can't locate where I heard the story of the particular pair of finger cymbals given to Prince.

We Can Fuck December 30-31 1983-Jan 1 1984 @ Sunset Sound

• Prince - all vocals and instruments, except where noted
• Wendy Melvoin - guitar and background vocals
• Lisa Coleman - keyboards and background vocals
• David Coleman - oud and finger cymbals
• Jill Jones - vox

Princevault

https://www.facebook.com/...1423514267

OldFriends4Sale said:

ufoclub said:

"Take Me With U" features finger cymbals prominantly in the mix, correct?

That was recorded January 1984.

"Around the World in a Day" the song was recorded in demo form on June 1984... 5 months later.

Yes Finger cymbals throught Take Me With U
That's one David Coleman, Suzi Katayama and Novi Novog are on

But what are you asking in particular?

ah, okay I thought the story was that they were introduced with the demo of "Around the World in a Day" but clearly it was before that, but still from David Coleman.

This finger symbol tangent is amazing.

SoulAlive said:

“High Fashion”,with its lyrics about a “stuck up little rich girl”,seems like it was tailor-made for UTCM.A few of the other tracks also would have worked well on Parade and in the movie.

The Family performing this at Mary's night time birthday party, while Christopher is working the crowed or flirting with Mary would have been perfect.

lavendardrummachine said:

This finger symbol tangent is amazing.