Crazy, after 3 years I'd never noticed it: there appears to be a glitch at 4:49 on PR Deluxe's Wonderful Ass. First I thought my file was corrupted so I got another one and it's there, too. Unless the new file I got is from the same faulty source as the one I got, I guess it was on the original cassette they used. Does anyone hear it, too? It's very discreet but once you know it's there, you can't miss it!!

...now I'm a bit scared to fast forward to the 4:49 mark on my PR deluxe

I'm not hearing it, unless... is it something to do with the rhythm track?

jaawwnn said:

I'm not hearing it, unless... is it something to do with the rhythm track?

OK I just realized one way to be absolutely sure is to check it on a streaming platform. I checked on Spotify and it's absolutely there, exactly similar to my file. It's in fact more at the very end of 4:48, a split second before it goes to :49. You can't possibly not hear it one you know it's there.

databank said:

bwaaatch said:

Also hear it on my ‘box o chocolates’ boot version, at exactly the same time stamp. So either a feature of the song or an error that is part of the original recording. Grundmann’s reputation is safe. But is there a way we can blame Josh or Howe? 🤔

Good catch! I didn't think of comparing it with the bootleg. It has nothing to do with mastering. If it's also there on the Box O' Chocolate version it indicates one thing and one thing only: the cassette mixdown used to source both the bootleg and the album is the same, and the glitch is on said cassette, meaning the leak probably came from the WB vault in the first place, where the cassettes used for PR Deluxe supposedly also come from.

Is there a superior copy of the mixdown in the vault without the glitch? I cannot tell. As with the glitch on Computer Blue (and unlike the one on Erotic City), it appears to be something WB and Howe were powerless to fix as long as they could only depend on the WB cassettes. However, I'm pretty convinced this is not an intended thing, so either there exist a mixdown without the glitch in the vault, or a Bolas mix will be "needed" do fix it.

Yet, minor as it is, this is another problem with PR Deluxe...

bwaaatch said:

Also hear it on my ‘box o chocolates’ boot version, at exactly the same time stamp. So either a feature of the song or an error that is part of the original recording. Grundmann’s reputation is safe. But is there a way we can blame Josh or Howe? 🤔

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As I've said it many times before: the estate had nothing to do with PRDeluxe, it was done by Warners and all the vault tracks came from their cassettes as at that time they didn't have access to the Paisley Park vault assets yet.
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[Edited 8/4/20 11:18am]

This is interesting!

I have checked eight versions from boots and 1 version from the CD.

I do hear a slight 'nuance' but I would not say this is a glitch.

It's as though Prince's vocal comes in slightly late by the width of a hair! But it sounds natural.

So maybe this is just how it was recorded and subsequently edited when the track was compiled.

mushmackalenta said:

That is because it's a Frankenstein mix.

Not funny.

darkroman said:

This is interesting!

I have checked eight versions from boots and 1 version from the CD.

I do hear a slight 'nuance' but I would not say this is a glitch.

It's as though Prince's vocal comes in slightly late by the width of a hair! But it sounds natural.

So maybe this is just how it was recorded and subsequently edited when the track was compiled.

OK, IDK, I would definitely call what I hear on the official release a technical glitch. I don't see how this could have been intended or accepted by Prince on a final release. Now I'm no engineer so IDK for sure, of course.

Well Wonderful Ass audio quality it's not the best anyways.

mushmackalenta said:

Phase3 said:

mushmackalenta said:

That is because it's a Frankenstein mix.

What in the world is a "Frankenstein mix"? Is there also a Dracula mix and a Wolfman mix too?

Where were you in 2019? The term was dubbed by Neversin when Originals was released and a few of us here denounced the fact that many mixes on the records were obviously posthumous fakes (something that was already pretty obvious with NC2U, released a year earlier). By this, we mean that Michael Howe and his engineers made new apocryphal mixes with elements from various mixes of a song -new mixes in the sense that they never existed in Prince's lifetime- either by adding or removing elements. Simple example is Baby You're A Trip, where Jill Jones' background vocals, most likely recorded in 1986 at the same time as her lead vocals and the orchestra, were added to Prince's original 1982 recording. Of course it's hard to tell with absolute certainty for each song what is genuine or not but there are several tracks where we have solid evidence of some posthumous tinkering.

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These "frankenstein" mixes are to be differentiated from posthumous reconstructions, where in the absence of an usable mix, Niko Bolas tried to recreate the original mix as faithfully as possible based on cassette mixdowns, or from other dubious experiments such as the fake single edit of Let's Work on 4ever or the poor attempt at recreating the Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden crossfade on PR Deluxe with 2 separate cassette mixdowns. I guess the former could be dubbed Wolfman and the latter Dracula, but that's up to you.

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Wonderful Ass is not a Frankenstein, Dracula or Wolfman mix since it's sourced from a cassette mixdown submited by Prince to WB at the time. The mix is genuine, but the source unfortunately appears to have sustained some damage.

databank said:

jazzz said:

Could this have something to do with the editing methods used back in the days to make the “montage” of the song (i.e. the cutting and then re-attaching the pieces of tape). I understand this was the method to make the edits.

That's exactly my first thought.

Hell, there are more obvious cuts like that in "The Ladder" and "Purple Rain," too.

I'm listening on Tidal, and not hearing anything that might be considered a glitch.

databank said:

Romeoblu said:

databank said:

Where were you in 2019? The term was dubbed by Neversin when Originals was released and a few of us here denounced the fact that many mixes on the records were obviously posthumous fakes (something that was already pretty obvious with NC2U, released a year earlier). By this, we mean that Michael Howe and his engineers made new apocryphal mixes with elements from various mixes of a song -new mixes in the sense that they never existed in Prince's lifetime- either by adding or removing elements. Simple example is Baby You're A Trip, where Jill Jones' background vocals, most likely recorded in 1986 at the same time as her lead vocals and the orchestra, were added to Prince's original 1982 recording. Of course it's hard to tell with absolute certainty for each song what is genuine or not but there are several tracks where we have solid evidence of some posthumous tinkering.

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These "frankenstein" mixes are to be differentiated from posthumous reconstructions, where in the absence of an usable mix, Niko Bolas tried to recreate the original mix as faithfully as possible based on cassette mixdowns, or from other dubious experiments such as the fake single edit of Let's Work on 4ever or the poor attempt at recreating the Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden crossfade on PR Deluxe with 2 separate cassette mixdowns. I guess the former could be dubbed Wolfman and the latter Dracula, but that's up to you.

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Wonderful Ass is not a Frankenstein, Dracula or Wolfman mix since it's sourced from a cassette mixdown submited by Prince to WB at the time. The mix is genuine, but the source unfortunately appears to have sustained some damage.

This is all conjecture. People base this theory on the outlets they have. They can't seem to accept that they are not necessarily the final versions.

You're wrong. If you'd followed the debates at the time you'd know that there were many other things taken into account when it came to assess the authenticity of a mix. This was done seriously.

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When it comes to JJ you are right in the sense that there is a slight possibility she recorded these background vocals back in 1982. Unlikely but possible. I just took this example because it was the one that required the least explaination. There is sufficient hard evidence of tinkering when it comes to several other tracks, though, I won't go into the details over and over again, the threads are still there to be read and you're an experienced orger. Besides, Niko Bolas himself kind of made a veiled admission of tinkering in his Peach and Black podcast. So no, it's not all conjecture.

databank said:

Romeoblu said:

databank said:

You're wrong. If you'd followed the debates at the time you'd know that there were many other things taken into account when it came to assess the authenticity of a mix. This was done seriously.

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When it comes to JJ you are right in the sense that there is a slight possibility she recorded these background vocals back in 1982. Unlikely but possible. I just took this example because it was the one that required the least explaination. There is sufficient hard evidence of tinkering when it comes to several other tracks, though, I won't go into the details over and over again, the threads are still there to be read and you're an experienced orger. Besides, Niko Bolas himself kind of made a veiled admission of tinkering in his Peach and Black podcast. So no, it's not all conjecture.

Why is there only a "slight possibility" Jill recorded her vocals in 1982. Baby you're a trip was recorded at Sunset sound in July 1982. At this time we know Jill was at Sunset sound working with Prince. Not proof but I would say that suggests there was a good chance

Besides the fact that we possess a 1982 mixdown on which Prince does all background vocals himself, while he would usually use Jill on the spot at the time, and the fact that JJ's background vocals are strictly identical to those on her album (one could assume the whole vocals would have been rerecorded with david Z. for homogeneity), there is the fact that the way her vocals are used on the Originals version is quite atypical for what Prince used to do (I would even go as far as to say clumsy, but of course Prince could have been experimenting). Add to this the fact that several other mixes were undeniably messed-up with and I'd say there are more reasons to assume it's a fake mix than to assume that it's not. There is legitimate doubt in this case, I agree, it could be that it's not a frankenstein mix. But I seriously doubt it's legit.

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Not sure if Jill is responsive on social networks but if so it'd be easy to ask her directly. If not, I believe Duane will eventually provide a definitive reply to this question in his next book, since he'll have to address the finalization of the track in 1986. He should also address the matter of Holly Rock and Dear Michaelangelo (both obvious fuck-ups) in that same book. I hope his current ties with the estate (as a liner notes writer) will not compromise his capacity to clarify the matter, but I trust his integrity as a researcher. It's also a pity the first book was completed before Originals came out, as the topic couldn't be addressed in regards to the numerous 83-84 recordings included on Originals.

The only "glitch" imo is the friggin ear piercing cymbal sound throughout. How anybody can listen to that track at a loud volume is beyond me. Very cool song, but not a great version. Anyway, there are other awesome tracks on that vault disc

[Edited 8/6/20 5:45am]

Listening on Tidal - there's a glitch like sound but it's hard to differentiate it from what could be a misplaced drum sound.

I hear what sounds like possible edits or punch ins at various points in the song, so I'd wonder if the drums weren't chopped up. I'm pretty sure there's a repeated timing jump into "you've got a wonderful ass", most noticable when Prince trails off and Jill continues at 1:51. Drums come in early in spots.

When he first introduces the Genius of Love stuff and then the breakdown at 4:40 there's something up there too.

I just tried on mine in iTunes (ripped directly from CD). I'm not hearing it.