I think I read somewhere that all the vault material will belong to Warner even after the catalogue goes to Sony. Is this for ALL vault material or just for the vault material for the Warner years ?

It's nice that Sony has done some reissues but would be so much better if they also did Super Deluxe releases with later albums like Rave Unto The Joy Fantastic or 3121 etc.

Love 1999 Super Deluxe and very much looking forward to Sign O The Times Super Deluxe!

Thanks for any info

The777Man

The777Man said:

I think I read somewhere that all the vault material will belong to Warner even after the catalogue goes to Sony. Is this for ALL vault material or just for the vault material for the Warner years ?

It's nice that Sony has done some reissues but would be so much better if they also did Super Deluxe releases with later albums like Rave Unto The Joy Fantastic or 3121 etc.

Love 1999 Super Deluxe and very much looking forward to Sign O The Times Super Deluxe!

Thanks for any info

The777Man

Only WBR ERA MATERIAL (LIVE&STUDIO)...4 post 95 ....not confirmed but Sony is just around the corner but no contract signed officially announced for the vault post 95 era material....so ?

love2thenines2003 said:

The777Man said:

I think I read somewhere that all the vault material will belong to Warner even after the catalogue goes to Sony. Is this for ALL vault material or just for the vault material for the Warner years ?

It's nice that Sony has done some reissues but would be so much better if they also did Super Deluxe releases with later albums like Rave Unto The Joy Fantastic or 3121 etc.

Love 1999 Super Deluxe and very much looking forward to Sign O The Times Super Deluxe!

Thanks for any info

The777Man

Only WBR ERA MATERIAL (LIVE&STUDIO)...4 post 95 ....not confirmed but Sony is just around the corner but no contract signed officially announced for the vault post 95 era material....so ?

Thanks for your reply. So Sony will ge the rest of the Warner material except the soundtracks. Does it mean that they can release a Dirty Mind Super Deluxe and use vault material or they can only release Dirty Mind as is for exemaple ?

The777Man

The777Man said:

love2thenines2003 said:

Only WBR ERA MATERIAL (LIVE&STUDIO)...4 post 95 ....not confirmed but Sony is just around the corner but no contract signed officially announced for the vault post 95 era material....so ?

Thanks for your reply. So Sony will ge the rest of the Warner material except the soundtracks. Does it mean that they can release a Dirty Mind Super Deluxe and use vault material or they can only release Dirty Mind as is for exemaple ?

The777Man

sorry if u missunderstood me.....WBR will keep the rights over all unreleased stuff during the time Prince was under contract with....= 78-94 ....until now & after 2020 et so on !

[Edited 7/15/20 7:52am]

In 2079 Purple Rain will fall into public domain. I will be 103 years old and I have already planned to release the most brickwalled remaster of all times in order to reach the deaf teenagers of the late 21st century. It'll be titled "Prince's Purple Rain Unloaded" and it will be craaaaaaazy!!

.

So no worries, folks

.

[Edited 7/15/20 8:18am]

databank said:

In 2079 Purple Rain will fall into public domain. I will be 103 years old and I have already planned to release the most brickwalled remaster of all times in order to reach the deaf teenagers of the late 21st century. It'll be titled "Prince's Purple Rain Unloaded" and it will be craaaaaaazy!!

.

So no worries, folks

.

[Edited 7/15/20 8:18am]

Your maths is out. But I look forward to the release on my 100th birthday.

love2thenines2003 said:

The777Man said:

Thanks for your reply. So Sony will ge the rest of the Warner material except the soundtracks. Does it mean that they can release a Dirty Mind Super Deluxe and use vault material or they can only release Dirty Mind as is for exemaple ?

The777Man

sorry if u missunderstood me.....WBR will keep the rights over all unreleased stuff during the time Prince was under contract with....= 78-94 ....until now & after 2020 et so on !

[Edited 7/15/20 7:52am]

Thanks for the clarification. That's exaclty the information I was looking for. So perhaps Sony can release a 3121 Super Deluxe at some point ? I guess Warner can release Vault material by itself from that time or perhaps partner with Sony ? "We give you vault material for Dirty Mind you release a Super Deluxe and we split the profits" ?

The777Man

The rumor is that the 2014 deal Prince signed with Warner had a clause where all the studio vault material recorded during Prince's original Warner deal would have to have Warner's approval and cooperation.

So there's no cutting Warner out of future deals. If Sony wants to do Dirty Mind: Super Deluxe Edition with studio vault material, they'll have to bring Warner along.

Now clearly that doesn't include demos, live material, rehearsal footage or studio vault material recorded after 1995.

Sony would need to cut a new deal with the Estate if they want that material. The Sony deal only covers previously released albums and b-sides/etc. Not unreleased material.

Strive said:

The rumor is that the 2014 deal Prince signed with Warner had a clause where all the studio vault material recorded during Prince's original Warner deal would have to have Warner's approval and cooperation.

So there's no cutting Warner out of future deals. If Sony wants to do Dirty Mind: Super Deluxe Edition with studio vault material, they'll have to bring Warner along.

Now clearly that doesn't include demos, live material, rehearsal footage or studio vault material recorded after 1995.

Sony would need to cut a new deal with the Estate if they want that material. The Sony deal only covers previously released albums and b-sides/etc. Not unreleased material.

So, the rights of the unreleased material recorded after 1995 are not with Sony? So, has the estate not given those rights to anyone as yet?

That would explain why none of the Sony re-releases have included vault material.

iveivan said:

Strive said:

The rumor is that the 2014 deal Prince signed with Warner had a clause where all the studio vault material recorded during Prince's original Warner deal would have to have Warner's approval and cooperation.

So there's no cutting Warner out of future deals. If Sony wants to do Dirty Mind: Super Deluxe Edition with studio vault material, they'll have to bring Warner along.

Now clearly that doesn't include demos, live material, rehearsal footage or studio vault material recorded after 1995.

Sony would need to cut a new deal with the Estate if they want that material. The Sony deal only covers previously released albums and b-sides/etc. Not unreleased material.

So, the rights of the unreleased material recorded after 1995 are not with Sony? So, has the estate not given those rights to anyone as yet?

That would explain why none of the Sony re-releases have included vault material.

I believe Sony only had the rights to REISSUE albums from the later years, they did not have the rights to additional material.... whether this changes in 2021 I have no idea... the whole is as confusing as it could possibly be.

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

The details of vault material contracts have never been publicly disclosed. As several people have already said the RUMORS point to WB having control of the vault material recorded during P's years with them. The Sony deal was spelled out pretty explicitly, and vault material was not mentioned at all. My speculation (once again, simply my belief) is that very few companies are interested in the material from the later years. Hell, once Universal realized they wouldn't be getting "the good stuff" they bailed. I think Sony was more willing to play the long game, believing they would be able to capitalize on the investment eventually.

What you want to say is "the 3 majors are not interested in the material from the later years".

It might be true, though the fact that Prince was in a position to drop Kobalt in order to be the subject of a bidding war between Warner and Sony in 2014 (for AOA and Plec), as well as the way Sony is happily rereleasing the whole post-WB catalogue, suggests otherwise.

Worst case, there are dozens of smaller labels that would be more than happy to get the crumbs the 3 majors don't want (to some labels, it would even represent the deal of a lifetime).

Not to mention the possibility of the estate taking matters into their own hands one day, the way Prince occasionally did it, by releasing some material themselves.

.

For this reason, if love2thenines' info is confirmed, I don't see much of a problem in Sony remastering the WB era albums they'll own with associated b-sides, edits and mixes, and WB releasing collections of outtakes separately. The estate could even play it smart and have both labels release things from the same era at about the same time, in order to generate interest.

I just don't have much hope on 2 competiting majors releasing joint ventures, but stranger things have been seen so who knows...

.

All to say that I'm not too worried about the material finding its way to us. Such a situation could even allow for more: for the last 2 years the estate and WB settled for 3 CDs of studio material and 2 live shows a year. If WB and some other label both have to capitalize on 2 different parts of the catalogue, this means we could hope for twice as much material.

I also don't think the estate can sit on the material too much: the vault is their biggest asset and Iron Mountain is probably a very expensive storage location. Not to use your main asset while spending money to keep it isn't very sensible from a business perspective.

.

But of course this is just me thinking out loud, so who knows what'll happen... Time will tell.

[Edited 7/15/20 13:42pm]

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

The 2014 situation was different though. Both of those companies were trying to position themselves as the future home of Prince's biggest hits from the past. IMO it had very little to do with AOA and Plec and more to do with Prince being able to start getting album rights back. But yes, you are right. I did mean the majors. I'm sure smaller companies would love to get their hands in the pot, and it would also give the impression that someone with a catalog as iconic as Prince's had to end up on a dinky label.

To be honest, many "dinky" labels are incredibly respected for their integrity and the quality of their output, and I think the estate working with a smaller company could probably be the best possible thing for us fans. I don't expect that from Comerica of course but if one day the family regains control and don't act like crazy, partnering with a smaller label would probably allow for more releases.

Anyway, the estate isn't bond to exclusivity and it appears the catalogue will be split anyways, so there is room for all: majors to release big profile cash grabbin' projects, smaller labels to release smaller scale projects, and Bandcamp for the most hardcore releases (like rehearsals and shit). Given the amount of material available, a sound strategy could be to diversify. That's kind of what Prince did when alive.

so from what i am reading nobody owns the post wb vault material .. or the estate does but no one else is interested in putting the material out .. so sony can't give us rave outtakes or crystal ball 2 .. i cant imagine prince signing away his vault after his wb revelations .. we know there is a twenty10 deluxe tracks out there too .. i know i would buy any prince album with a disk of unheard outtakes and an unheard live show tacked on .. the material must be there .. even those shit quality mp3 rehearsals would sound better if not mp3 from the a0a 4 year dry spell .. lotsa outtake material not accounted for betwixt sony and wb .. if pink floyd can put out a 20 disk set for one album .. and phish and pearl jam can print up a whole tours worth of live cds .. surely the prince estate can give up the goods ..

My guess, based on what's been released since Prince's death, the lack of 'rush' from WB and the fact that Universal bailed, is that WB own, or at the very least have the purpetual distribution rights for anything recorded, (released or not) from the period he was under contract with them.

If WB were to lose control of those rights in 2021, as rumoured, surely they would just unload it before they lose control. It would make no sense to simply hand them back to the estate.

I think Prince may have 'negotiated back his masters' in 2014, but I'm guessing it only transfered after remaster/box set type releaeses had given WB a last pay day. They had no reason to give them back for free. All the unreleased material was recorded under WB paid for studio time.

Post WB, most Prince albums were one off deals, so I imaging the Estate have far greater control, but we don't know those deals.

SquirrelMeat said:

My guess, based on what's been released since Prince's death, the lack of 'rush' from WB and the fact that Universal bailed, is that WB own, or at the very least have the purpetual distribution rights for anything recorded, (released or not) from the period he was under contract with them.

If WB were to lose control of those rights in 2021, as rumoured, surely they would just unload it before they lose control. It would make no sense to simply hand them back to the estate.

I think Prince may have 'negotiated back his masters' in 2014, but I'm guessing it only transfered after remaster/box set type releaeses had given WB a last pay day. They had no reason to give them back for free. All the unreleased material was recorded under WB paid for studio time.

Post WB, most Prince albums were one off deals, so I imaging the Estate have far greater control, but we don't know those deals.

Regarding the last point, we do know: Prince's one off deals only concerned the material involved in said deals, of which he kept the masters and for which distribution rights were only valid for a short amount of time since the estate was able to give everything to Sony Legacy (in most cases where several distribution channels were involved, it appears distribution wasn't even exclusive at the time of release anyway). Anything unreleased, the labels had nothing to do with and Prince (now the estate) maintains full ownership of both masters and distribution rights.

With the Universal deal, from what I've heard, it wasn't that not only did they not get the rights to vault material recorded under his original WB deal but the details of the 2014 WB deal they didn't know about.

They thought they were getting all the albums sooner than the deal said, didn't know it didn't include the soundtrack albums and didn't know that Prince gave away the rights for certain albums in certain regions.

databank said:

AvocadosMax said:

databank said:

In 2079 Purple Rain will fall into public domain. I will be 103 years old and I have already planned to release the most brickwalled remaster of all times in order to reach the deaf teenagers of the late 21st century. It'll be titled "Prince's Purple Rain Unloaded" and it will be craaaaaaazy!!

.

So no worries, folks

.

[Edited 7/15/20 8:18am]

Thanks man. I need my kids’ kids to love that album lol

I'm thinking longterm, your GRANDkids

This is a fascinating question and poses a dilemma for us fans I think. If WB owns the vault pre 1995 or so we will not get a "Dirty Mind", "ATWIAD" or "LoveSexy" deluxe, right? BUT if that were the case WHY does Sony allegedly own the WB era material on the 1998 "Crystal Ball"?

homesquid said:

This is a fascinating question and poses a dilemma for us fans I think. If WB owns the vault pre 1995 or so we will not get a "Dirty Mind", "ATWIAD" or "LoveSexy" deluxe, right? BUT if that were the case WHY does Sony allegedly own the WB era material on the 1998 "Crystal Ball"?

Good one, Homesquid!

I'm gonna go deep into speculation and guess that Prince "bootlegged" his own unreleased material at that time since it was already out there *somehow*.

(*somehow* meaning employees at the WB)

nayroo2002 said: