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Thread started 09/02/20 5:36am

thebanishedone

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How well did his musicianship stand against other popular acts?

In the 80s Prince,Michael Jackson, Lionel Riche, Madonna and Springsteen were

the biggest names in popular music.

But unlike Prince their albums usually had a list of high profile bassists,

guitar,drums and keyboards players who were the

backbone of what those albums .

You had killer funk bassist Louis Johnson, master

rhythm guitarists like Paul Jackson jr ,lead players

like Steve Lukather and keyboard wizard Greg Phillinganes

all playin super tight melodies.hooks,licks.

On the other hand you had Prince who played all those instruments by himself

on his records.

So how did Prince hold against this guys in term of musical content?

Did Prince stand a chance in your opinion on bass against

Louis Johnson?

or on rhythm guitar against Paul Jackson jr or on other

instruments?In terms of execution on the records.

Cause we all know those guys dedicated their life to 1 instrument and

this guy was playing 4 instruments on his records?

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Reply #1 posted 09/02/20 5:53am

JorisE73

I think most people here don't care much about his technical skills but more about the way he played and his sound.
Technically he isn;t as good as the players you mention but IMO his sound and what he plays and the pure emontion he coaxes through his instruments is miles above theres and unreachable by any of them.
Prince's playing evokes feelings and emotions that I never get with for example Toto even tho those musicians are amazingly good.

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Reply #2 posted 09/02/20 6:26am

SPYZFAN1

I think P could have held his own as a studio musician/sideman (if he never had become a performer). He was versatile enough and had a good ear to pick up things.

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Reply #3 posted 09/02/20 7:06am

thebanishedone

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So you think that what Prince played resonates more because emotional content is stronger than just being a pro session player?
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Reply #4 posted 09/02/20 7:21am

JorisE73

thebanishedone said:

So you think that what Prince played resonates more because emotional content is stronger than just being a pro session player?


To me it does but to others maybe not. No harm in that right?
Most pro session players, as much as I admire a love there skills and music, don't give me the same feeling that Prince gave me when he played.
For example, Steve Vai is one hell of a player that I really love but he doesn't grip me as when Prince played.
But this is just me and how music works for me. It's not a competition but an artform and art is subjective.

[Edited 9/2/20 7:24am]

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Reply #5 posted 09/02/20 7:25am

jazzz

Was Oscar Peterson a better musician than Thelonius Monk...
.
Some people will say yes, others think no.
.
Would Sgt. Pepper’s have sounded better when the wrecking crew had played the music?
.
It is just how you define “better”...
.
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Reply #6 posted 09/02/20 7:48am

thebanishedone

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I start this tread to be a comparation not competition based.there are lot of Purple Rain vs.Thriller discussions.Would you say that musicianship displayed on Purple Rain is inferior compared to an all star studio pros?
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Reply #7 posted 09/02/20 8:12am

JorisE73

thebanishedone said:

Would you say that musicianship displayed on Purple Rain is inferior compared to an all star studio pros?


Absolutely not.

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Reply #8 posted 09/02/20 8:34am

LoveGalore

thebanishedone said:

So you think that what Prince played resonates more because emotional content is stronger than just being a pro session player?

Prince was responsible for the entire creation of the song. He dreamed it, ate it, breathed it. Each instrument. When you are that much in control, there is a distinct difference in how comfortable a person sounds in the mix. It is way more organic than being pulled in to do a great job on your instrument for someone else's project.

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Reply #9 posted 09/02/20 8:36am

jazzz

If you want to hear how Prince’s music sounds when played by 80’s LA session musicians, listen to “With You” on Jill Jones’ album. The sterility of the playing makes it the ‘stand-out’ track of the album! Imagine the whole album done this way... or even SOTT...
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Reply #10 posted 09/02/20 9:42am

SantanaMaitrey
a

JorisE73 said:



thebanishedone said:


So you think that what Prince played resonates more because emotional content is stronger than just being a pro session player?


To me it does but to others maybe not. No harm in that right?
Most pro session players, as much as I admire a love there skills and music, don't give me the same feeling that Prince gave me when he played.
For example, Steve Vai is one hell of a player that I really love but he doesn't grip me as when Prince played.
But this is just me and how music works for me. It's not a competition but an artform and art is subjective.

[Edited 9/2/20 7:24am]


The thing with session players is that they're just doing their job. Prince always gave it his best when he was recording. And that makes it more personal. When I think of the music I like, it's usually a one man band like Prince or a singer-songwriter like Bob Dylan or a band like the Rolling Stones...
If you take any of this seriously, you're a bigger fool than I am.
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Reply #11 posted 09/02/20 12:52pm

thebanishedone

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SantanaMaitreya said:

JorisE73 said:



thebanishedone said:


So you think that what Prince played resonates more because emotional content is stronger than just being a pro session player?


To me it does but to others maybe not. No harm in that right?
Most pro session players, as much as I admire a love there skills and music, don't give me the same feeling that Prince gave me when he played.
For example, Steve Vai is one hell of a player that I really love but he doesn't grip me as when Prince played.
But this is just me and how music works for me. It's not a competition but an artform and art is subjective.

[Edited 9/2/20 7:24am]


The thing with session players is that they're just doing their job. Prince always gave it his best when he was recording. And that makes it more personal. When I think of the music I like, it's usually a one man band like Prince or a singer-songwriter like Bob Dylan or a band like the Rolling Stones...
great observation smile
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Reply #12 posted 09/02/20 2:47pm

SPYZFAN1

He would have had his own signature style/sound (like Ray Parker Jr., Luke and Phil Collins when they played on other people's songs). His studio cameo appearances with Stevie Nicks, Common, Stevie Wonder and George Clinton proved that.

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Reply #13 posted 09/02/20 10:56pm

JorisE73

jazzz said:

If you want to hear how Prince’s music sounds when played by 80’s LA session musicians, listen to “With You” on Jill Jones’ album. The sterility of the playing makes it the ‘stand-out’ track of the album! Imagine the whole album done this way... or even SOTT...


That one is horrible and soulless.

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Reply #14 posted 09/02/20 11:26pm

RJOrion

quite well.
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Reply #15 posted 09/02/20 11:39pm

databank

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Well I'd just like to remind y'all that an esteemed fellow orger once seriously claimed Prince needed to take drums lessons lol
So... Maybe not the best place to ask such a question? lol
A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...scography/
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Reply #16 posted 09/03/20 12:00am

lavendardrumma
chine


Sessions players have chops, and they might even get some long rope to creatively bring something to the table, but they're not doing what Prince did. So yeah, maybe Prince wouldn't win as a session player on bass, but why would he need to? Why is there a comparison? What we hear again and again from players with chops that have worked as session guys is that Prince could hold his own, and would grab their instrument and do something better than they could.

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Reply #17 posted 09/03/20 7:27am

thebanishedone

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lavendardrummachine said:


Sessions players have chops, and they might even get some long rope to creatively bring something to the table, but they're not doing what Prince did. So yeah, maybe Prince wouldn't win as a session player on bass, but why would he need to? Why is there a comparison? What we hear again and again from players with chops that have worked as session guys is that Prince could hold his own, and would grab their instrument and do something better than they could.


Reason to compare is because many times on this site i heard people downplaying Prince as a musician.yet most of the stuff he did alone unlike other big acts at the time
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Reply #18 posted 09/03/20 7:43am

jaawwnn

jazzz said:

If you want to hear how Prince’s music sounds when played by 80’s LA session musicians, listen to “With You” on Jill Jones’ album. The sterility of the playing makes it the ‘stand-out’ track of the album! Imagine the whole album done this way... or even SOTT...

I prefer her version to the Prince version!

Anyway, the question is a non-starter, most session musicians dedicate their lives to their instrument but have little vision outside of that, which is fine, it's how it's supposed to be. I love Greg Phillinganes but he wasn't exactly knocking out those solo albums. Prince's albums probably could sound better in a technical sense if he had got in the best session musicians and bent them to his will, but it would have dramatically dropped his level of output.

A better question might be, what would Thriller have sounded like if Prince had been a session musician on it? What would the solo of Beat It sounded like?

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Reply #19 posted 09/03/20 7:52am

tab32792

Technicality doesn’t equal better player. The end. He would’ve and could’ve held his own. Easiest example is the purple rain guitar solo. Solo evokes emotions that a technical player never could. Especially now that he’s gone. I love and prefer feel over technicality.
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Reply #20 posted 09/03/20 10:36am

lavendardrumma
chine

thebanishedone said:

lavendardrummachine said:


Sessions players have chops, and they might even get some long rope to creatively bring something to the table, but they're not doing what Prince did. So yeah, maybe Prince wouldn't win as a session player on bass, but why would he need to? Why is there a comparison? What we hear again and again from players with chops that have worked as session guys is that Prince could hold his own, and would grab their instrument and do something better than they could.

Reason to compare is because many times on this site i heard people downplaying Prince as a musician.yet most of the stuff he did alone unlike other big acts at the time



Isn't that more of a reason not to compare? I mean, not knocking wanting to discuss it but that era's weakness was how manufactured most music got. Whole genres came out of it in response based around bands that played their own music and wrote their own songs. The big stars tried to take more creative control and write more, and it usually lead to weaker material.

The fact is, Prince had the chops to be The Revolution, and The Time, and put out songs like Manic Monday that sounds like session musicians could have done it. But if you listen to the stems or software created solo tracks for big hits of his, a lot of it's the vibe. What he created was better than the sum of any of the parts.

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Reply #21 posted 09/03/20 7:22pm

masaba

Lol these topics are stupid. Prince was an extremely talented individual. If he wanted to be a session musician, he would and would be great at it on rhythm, lead or bass guitar, even piano if it was his dedicated instrument. He had a great ear, great internal time, strong hands and great feel. He basically was a session musician, just for himself. And he could be super technical or super loose whenever he wanted.

I lol when I see some people questioning his ability to play the bass. He could make any sound he wanted to on that thing. Don't forget P is one of the funkiest.
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Reply #22 posted 09/04/20 12:13pm

Shawy89

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I think what I always found lacking in Prince's 80's catalog that was fairly abundant in other records was the quality of sonics and the mastering crispiness (Dirty Mind and Controversy would be exceptions since they're essentially minimalistic). Otherwise, I think his basslines, melodies and synth ideas were very creative, catchy, innovative and unique.

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Reply #23 posted 09/04/20 4:14pm

rogifan

Is the question whether Prince would have been a good session musician? I think he would have been amazing at whatever he set his mind to.

Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #24 posted 09/05/20 10:12pm

lavendardrumma
chine

rogifan said:

Is the question whether Prince would have been a good session musician? I think he would have been amazing at whatever he set his mind to.


Yeah that sums up the question. Plus he was essentially a session player at times. "Stand Back", "Like a Prayer" and the "Make me feel", etc.

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Reply #25 posted 09/06/20 3:48pm

grantevans

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Technical skills does not equal musicality. Listen to over-rehearsed mechanical kids doing grade 8 exams, compared to a pianist who may not be as technically mechanical but plays with feeling. If you do not really 'feel' the music you are playing as it is not yours, then the effect is not so pleasing emotionally.

Great technical players can play with feeling, but you can always feel what is missing. That is why they stay as session musos

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Reply #26 posted 09/06/20 4:29pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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I put it this way... some were better than he was at any given instrument... but put them all together, then add: producing, composing, lyrics, preforming, and productivity... add style and one of the best given names in rock... he is hard to beat...

"Keep on shilling for Big Pharm!"
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Reply #27 posted 09/07/20 2:42am

Hamad

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Prince reminds me of Duke Ellington, in the sense that he treated his instruments like characters as opposed to eminent objects. There's a human element to them, sometimes even a conversational quality to the way he played. Duke came at a time when piano virtuosos such as Willie 'The Lion' Smith, Fats Waller, Art Tatum & James P Johnson were his contempraries, they ecplised him technically and had more vocabulary in their playing than he ever did, but he dug within his imagination and brought something infinite from his own limitations that resonated with listeners globally. Prince couldn't play the guitar like Eddie Hazel, or bass like Bootsy Collins, or drums like his own drummer John Blackwell, or the keyboards like Bernie Worrell or Herbie Hancock, but what he lacked in their techincal skills, he drew many worlds with his imagination that made everyone of them tip their hats to him. Composionally, his music could range from simple to somewhat complex/abstract, moreso the former which to me is what made listeners resonate with his music.

Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...

Twitter: https://twitter.com/QLH82
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Reply #28 posted 09/07/20 3:03am

Wolfie87

Well, Swedens most respected contempary journalist, who moved to NY in 1978 and witnessed the rise of Hip-Hop on front row, Mats Nileskär, said after the news on Prince's death; "He was the Innovator, the greatest musician of the past half century"

And this guy has interviewed them all (except Prince, which almost happened, and MJ). He finally made his Aretha Franklin interview two years ago. He is one of the few who got the chance to interview Tupac Shakur back in 1994.

So yeah, Prince is obviously a monumental deal to him. That speaks volumes.
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Reply #29 posted 09/07/20 10:48am

SantanaMaitrey
a

Hamad said:

Prince reminds me of Duke Ellington, in the sense that he treated his instruments like characters as opposed to eminent objects. There's a human element to them, sometimes even a conversational quality to the way he played. Duke came at a time when piano virtuosos such as Willie 'The Lion' Smith, Fats Waller, Art Tatum & James P Johnson were his contempraries, they ecplised him technically and had more vocabulary in their playing than he ever did, but he dug within his imagination and brought something infinite from his own limitations that resonated with listeners globally. Prince couldn't play the guitar like Eddie Hazel, or bass like Bootsy Collins, or drums like his own drummer John Blackwell, or the keyboards like Bernie Worrell or Herbie Hancock, but what he lacked in their techincal skills, he drew many worlds with his imagination that made everyone of them tip their hats to him. Composionally, his music could range from simple to somewhat complex/abstract, moreso the former which to me is what made listeners resonate with his music.


Yes, all the musicians you mention may have been better on their instruments than Prince, but... John Blackwell didn't play guitar. Bernie Worrell didn't drum. Bootst Collins didn't dance. Herbie Hancock wasn't a songwriter. The great thing about Prince is that he was all of those things. And just like Duke Ellington or Sly Stone or George Clinton, sometimes I think that the "instrument" that he played the best was his band.
If you take any of this seriously, you're a bigger fool than I am.
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