I'm glad it's out. It's wonderful to hear. It sheds light on the music of Prince. But ultimately i could see why it was shelved. This version of the track is not very good.

jaawwnn said:

yello1 said:

databank said:

yello1 said:

Do you know the name of the song?!

I do but unfortunately it's not my place to tell. Those who heard it will know the one I'm talking about. My point was just that sometimes Prince was ahead not just of his time but also himself.

Thank u anyway...(is listed in Princevault? (when the shit comes...? )

SquirrelMeat said:

yello1 said:

databank said:

yello1 said:

Thank u anyway...(is listed in Princevault? (when the shit comes...? )

It is yes

ohh ! thanks!

parker said:

jaawwnn said:

I really don't think All My Dreams should be on there, it's a nail in the coffin for the chances of a Parade Super Deluxe anyway.

Easily could have 2-3 discs of Parade vault material. * New position (82 version) * Wendy’s parade * I wonder u (Prince vocals) * Old friends 4 sale (85 version) * Others here with us * Tibet * Kiss (Xtended Version) * Evolsidog * Heaven * Stella and Charles * Come Elektra Tuesday * Polka dot tiger * Zebra with the blonde hair * Drawers * God is everywhere * Call of the wild * Love or $ (alt version) * (U got the) good drawers * Go * Splash * Empty room * An honest man * U gotta shake something * A coupe of miles * Junk music * Up from below * Y’all want some more * Conversation piece 1/12/86 * Funny love 3/11/86 * Twosday 3/11/86

That's true. The Complete Flesh Sessions would be an amazing boxset on its own.

As wonderful as this version is, and trust me when I say I love it because I've had it on repeat since it came out, I think it completely and utterly reinforces my thoughts regarding putting not-of-the-era recordings on these boxes. It sticks out like a sore thumb, sound and feel wise, compared to the other vault tracks that are actually of the era. This would've been better suited to a Prince deluxe and It's A Wonderful Day to a Parade deluxe.

jaawwnn said:

lustmealways said:

databank said:

ForceofNature said:

lustmealways said:

SantanaMaitreya said:

But who says those Deluxe albums are coming? Better have it now than God knows when. Besides, the great thing about these archive releases is that you can hear how a song or an album progressed, so there is something to be said for having different versions of a song together even though they're years apart.

I mean, fair enough I guess. The only plus is now v.s. later but that also means something was taken off this set in favor of ICNTTPOYM, we've already seen discussion on multiple 86' song titles that should've been on the set based on recording date. Even if, let's say, Pony Ride or whatever song title you wanna talk about is substantially less interesting than this 79' version, I'd still rather have the of-the-era recording.

But that's just me! I'm eternally grateful anything's getting released at all and I'm not going to complain too much because, overall, the SOTT deluxe set has already exceeded my expectations of the estate (which were pretty low...) so I'm definitely looking forward to it even if I don't agree with certain inclusions.

databank said:

Now to these people who complain about those, I must remind you that I was pretty much alone in saying that I was happy with the sound quality of the PR SDE outtakes and that I wanted the estate to release P's mixes as such even if it meant using cassettes. So while no one asked for Frankenstein mixes, the community begged for those reconstructed mixes,

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This is such strawman bullshit. Go on, post links to such comments where people said they wanted these reconstructed mixes.

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What we wanted were recordings sourced from PROPER mixdowns, not cassette copies. That they cannot find these is incomprehensible to me, unless Prince at one point cleared out those from the vault. Kares had a thread not long ago in which he expressed the same doubt: that it is so unlikely that these mixdowns do not exist anymore other than in cassette form.

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Now, if these do indeed do not exist, then these reconstructed mixes are the closest we're going to get when it comes to "professionally sounding" recordings... but the archivists should at least have offered up the original cassette copies so we can compare them to the final mixes. Maybe download only or whatever. But when you're peddling expensive box sets, at least give the hardcore fans who'll buy it that bit extra.

Why would a proper mixdown of a song he had not yet completed exist? I wouldn't be against the cassette version as well though.

Imagine, if When Doves Cry was an unreleased track we'd likely have it with a bass line and be none the wiser.

jaawwnn said:

Why would a proper mixdown of a song he had not yet completed exist?

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That is hineininterpretierung. We now see that he revisisted songs years later and added parts to them, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were unfinished at the time of recording. These "demo" mixes are often already somewhat complex, so why do those only for a cassette tape, an inferior way of storing them, when you could just as well tape them professionally and then get multiple tape copies from that? How would an engineer even know when to mix to PRO tape vs cassette tape, considering that considering that Prince sometimes worked on songs that would literally be in stores mere weeks later?

BartVanHemelen said:

BartVanHemelen said:

But when you're peddling expensive box sets, at least give the hardcore fans who'll buy it that bit extra.

Expensive!?!? AHEM. Heard of Google, bud? I recall a poster with a username quite remisicent of your handle informing me that the price gouging--I mean scaling--of these sets is really quite average when cross-compared to the price of a typical boxset.... I'm just going to assume this post was computed via randomized algorithm and you bear no personal responsibility for any contradictions amassed underneath the Bart by-line.

[Edited 7/22/20 0:05am]

WhisperingDandelions said:

BartVanHemelen said:

But when you're peddling expensive box sets, at least give the hardcore fans who'll buy it that bit extra.

Expensive!?!? AHEM. Heard of Google, bud? I recall a poster with a username quite remisicent of your handle informing me that the price gouging--I mean scaling--of these sets is really quite average when cross-compared to the price of a typical boxset.... I'm just going to assume this post was computed via randomized algorithm and you bear no personal responsibility for any contradictions amassed underneath the Bart by-line.

[Edited 7/22/20 0:05am]

Does this really need to be explained???
Just becuase the price is average compared to similar box-sets, doesn't mean it can't be expensive.

jaawwnn said:

Why would a proper mixdown of a song he had not yet completed exist? I wouldn't be against the cassette version as well though.

Imagine, if When Doves Cry was an unreleased track we'd likely have it with a bass line and be none the wiser.

Maybe to listen to the progress of it or maybe to showcase it to someone he wanted to add something to it?

jaawwnn said:

Why would a proper mixdown of a song he had not yet completed exist? I wouldn't be against the cassette version as well though.

Imagine, if When Doves Cry was an unreleased track we'd likely have it with a bass line and be none the wiser.

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You don't know when something is completed. (which is your point, I guess) When it comes to these mixes, I feel strongly that , for instance, 100MPH should sound close to either the released version, but with Prince vocals, or like the bootleg versions that are out there, as they were mixes that were done. In none of those you hear the extra guitar lines that were on the multitrack but were wisely muted. Just like I feel that When Doves Cry, indeed, should not have a bass and Let's Go Crazy shouldn't have the alternate lead guitar mixed in as well.

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Or, for that matter, whatever happened to Nothing Compares 2 U. He had a final mix, the wonderful version on the Family album. Mix it like that, with Prince vocals! Not all these much worse mixes that have been released now.

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I hope the deluxe will be great. The two singles sound good to me.

LoveGalore said:

SanMartin said:

In what songs does Prince sexualise a woman crying? That's interesting, but I can't think of examples apart from Automatic. Don't get me wrong, I know 'she was looking alright' refers to her looking hot, but I find the scenario hard to imagine if she was actually crying in that moment and not later, after sex, or at least as something she confessed to him afterwards.

They didn't get to sex in the 86 version. He asked her to dance and she's like actually I need a real man, are you the one? And thus the song is born. In the 79 version he clearly states his case, but that he'll try anyway (which just means he'll sleep with her and see if something more happens). Prince has mentioned a sort of strange dichotomy between crying and sex and laughing on a few occasions but most poignantly in the scene from Purple Rain with the backmasked song, Automatic, and it's even vaguely referenced in A Place In Heaven ("it's as easy to imagine laughing when you really hear a cry"). I'm not saying if he did it on purpose or not but it seems a bit too on the nose to ignore.

I'd forgotten about the line "she told me with tears in her eyes", which shows my interpretation was off because she definitely was crying at the bar. I still think the guitar solo (duo) is a cool way of representing their flirting or the sexual tension between them. Thanks for the clarification re. sexualising crying.

mediumdry said:

So called "cancel culture" seems to be an issue to some depending on issues. Calling out Nick but calling out cancel culture on a separate thread. Or vice versa. Either we work towards a better society or not, let's just net be too hypocritical about it.

databank said:

Nonsense. The Family version with Prince vocals would be as much a Frankenstein abomination as what they did. No such version ever existed in Prince's lifetime. Either you wish to document Prince's creative process as it happened, which means releasing (or recreating identically) his work in progress mixes as they were on a'y given day, or you're better off leaving it all in the vault. The arbitrary approach that consists in "finishing" the songs to make them more listener-friendly is nothing less than butchering, and any fan demanding it should see their Prince collection confiscated for all they deserve to hear "for their entertainment" is the latest Justin Bieber and Britney Spears records. Now I said it

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It seems we keep having similar discussions

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In the case of Nothing Compares, you say that the eventual version that Prince felt was ready for release, but then with Prince vocals would be a frankenstein abomination. In this case, I disagree. The vocals were replaced at some point (see the 2 almost identical versions that exist with Prince vocals on one, StPaul's on the other). The song, as it was deemed done, is the version on the Family album. I want to hear the song with Prince on vocals. I would like to hear the end result, not intermediate versions that are inferior and are ideas that were discarded. So instead of hearing how Prince felt the song should be, we are hearing stuff that was looked at but rejected.

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The song didn't change from muting the Prince vocal track and putting in the St Paul vocal track. I don't see anything frankensteinish in simply swapping the faders round again, like Prince did while he was constructing the song.

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The way you describe it, it means that the only sources for Prince related releases from here on out are the 2 track masters and cassettes. The multitrack recordings should never be touched anymore, as it is impossible to get a "proper" mix without Prince's input, as his way of mixing was mostly real time, without automation and thus without proper documentation. I feel that doing that would be wrong. Then again, I feel that the stems for every song should be released, like the Let's Go Crazy leak recently.

mediumdry said:

databank said:

What you clearly don't understand is what you want to hear (you, me. anyone) is irrelevant.

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We agree completely here. What is important is what the rightsholders want, but we can make suggestions. Unfortunately, what Prince wanted, or created, is ultimately only as relevant as the commercial value given to it. By which I mean that I think the rightsholders will have to do a market assessment and act accordingly, to keep a revenue stream large enough to keep preparing releases. :-/

.

databank said:

The version on The Family was finished (in its minimalist form) after Paul recorded his vocals. This version don't exist, never existed, never was intended to exist with Prince's vocals. This shouldn't even be a discussion really. I'm sorry, but it shouldn't.

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The version exists... as in, all necessary parts are on a multitrack. Prince's voice is simply muted. (they wouldn't have been able to do the mixes they did otherwise) Our difference of opinion is simply if we should go for what Prince made the song into, ready for release, but with his vocals, or if we should only use existing stereo mixes. I am on the song side of things (that's his ultimate arrangement), you are on the historical (he stopped using his voice after St Paul did his vocals, so whatever was the last mix done before that is what should be used)

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I understand your point and have sympathy for it, but I think my version is closer to Prince's art. Agree to disagree.

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databank said:

Now releasing the multitracks like LGC, Who wouldn't want to have them of course, But I don't think it's ever gonna happen beyond the exceptional coup a la Space Oddity. Not for Prince nor any other artist. This would open the fate for so many reinterpretations ans so much vandalism that it would tarnish the artists' legacy, drawing their catalog in an ocean of bullshit amateurish remixes.

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I haven't heard a lot of amateur remixes of Ben Folds album (just one I happened to have and thus thought of, there are others as well) and Prince was thinking about it, during the cd-rom "adventure" he released. (I think it was Interactive)

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I think the "amateur remix" problem is a non-problem. Simply only listen to official releases if you want to hear the actual tracks. As to tarnishing a legacy... nothing will be as bad as what Prince has done himself, the unresolved rights issues, the re-interpretations and stuff played by others and "released" as vault material. I hope nothing like what happened to Hendrix's music will happen to Prince, but the risk of weird mixes has been out there since the start of the sampler and before. I don't see that becoming any different if stems are released officially.

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databank said:

Now don't take me wrong, I respect you and I understand your suggestions come from a good place. But they're misled. . Sorry if there are typos btw I'm not home so typing on the smartphone

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Impressive that you typed that much on a phone. I hope there was noone around to hear you curse.