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Thread started 02/21/20 11:30pm

Urine

Crystal Ball on vinyl

I have recently got myself a vinyl player and have been buying the reissued Prince albums.

My Favourite Album is Crystal Ball and so would love to see it get a vinyl release.

One thing I really like about listening to albums on vinyl is the fact you have sides, and each side kind of takes on it's own identity. Like when I listen to Sign o The Times. My favourite sides are 1 and 3.

So I was thinking about how great it would be to have Crystal Ball on vinyl and how it would be split up for vinyl.

This made me realise that it does pose a problem as the each album is about 50 minutes long which would mean some quite long album sides if it were evenly split over 6 vinyl albums.

It could be jigged about but then I think you would lose the flow and personally I would want each disc as is all kept together. So would you prefer the compromise on sound quality or have the album restructured.
[Edited 2/21/20 23:31pm]
[Edited 2/21/20 23:32pm]
[Edited 2/21/20 23:32pm]
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Reply #1 posted 02/22/20 1:46am

VaultCurator

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EDIT: Post removed. Thank you DJ Thunderfunk for the correction.

[Edited 2/22/20 6:25am]

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Reply #2 posted 02/22/20 2:01am

SantanaMaitrey
a

Album sides of only 9-10 minutes? Nah, 6 LPs is too much.
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Reply #3 posted 02/22/20 2:47am

mynameisnotsus
an

SantanaMaitreya said:

Album sides of only 9-10 minutes? Nah, 6 LPs is too much.


Agreed - you should be able to have a 25 min side - I'd love a triple vinyl. The Truth would be great to have as well.
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Reply #4 posted 02/22/20 4:34am

VaultCurator

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EDIT: Sorry, I'm over thinking this. Ignore me.

[Edited 2/22/20 6:26am]

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Reply #5 posted 02/22/20 4:55am

Romeoblu

I have albums with sides that are about 27 mins long and they sound fine. Two examples are Lotus Flower side 2 and Beck's Odelay side 2.

Therefore Crystal Ball could go on 3 lps.

Lp 1
Side 1 approx 24 mins

Crystal Ball
Dream Factory
Acknowledge Me
Ripopgodazippa

Side 2 approx 26 mins

Love sign
Hide the Bone
2morrow
So Dark
Movie Star
Tell me how

Lp2
Side1 approx 25 mins

Interactive
Da bang
Calhoun Square
What's my name
Crucial
An Honest man
Sexual Suicide

Side 2 approx 26

Coleen Baconskin
Good Love
STRAYS OF THE WORLD

Lp2

Side 1 approx 26 mins

Days of Wild
Last Heart
Poom Poom
She Gave Her Angel's
18 and Over

Side 2 approx 24 mins

The Ride
Get Loose
P Control
Make Your Mama happy
Goodbye
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Reply #6 posted 02/22/20 4:59am

Romeoblu

VaultCurator said:

Hi SantanaMaitreya & Mynameisnotsusan,

It is technically possible to have vinyl's with 25 minutes sides, however from what I understand of vinyl (and I'm not an expert by any means) the best practice is to keep a side under 23 minutes. This limit can be pushed but to the detriment to the signal strength.

Even if Legacy were happy to produce 50 minute LPs, this doesn't actually help in Crystal Ball's case as the tracks to not split evenly into 25 minute clusters. As such it would not be possible to produce a triple vinyl set without performing drastic editing to the tracks (which were already heavily edited in the making of the original CD set).

The set can be released on fewer than 6LPs, however splitting the sequence can be tricky as there are some sections of the set where tracks are either segued together or cross fade into each other.



Disc 1:


'Acknowledge Me' cross fades into 'Ripopgodazippa' which segues into 'Love Sign'


'Hide the Bone' quickly transitions into '2morrow'


'Movie Star' quickly transitions into 'Tell Me How U Wanna B Done'



There are also quick cross fades between...


'Love Sign' to 'Hide the Bone'


'2morrow' to 'So Dark'


'So Dark' to 'Movie Star'...


however I think these can be dealt with easily enough through editing.



Disc 2:


'Crucial' cross fades into 'An Honest Man'


'Good Love' cross fades into 'Strays Of The World'



Disc 3:


'Days Of Wild' segues into 'Last Heart' (sort of)


'18 & Over' cross fades into 'The Ride' which segues into 'Get Loose' which cross fades into 'P. Control'



Again, there is a quick cross fade between 'She Gave Her Angels' and '18 & Over', but I reckon these can be split well in editing.

As such, the best way I could work out to split the set on the fewest number of records is...



LP1 Side A:


Crystal Ball (10:28)


Dream Factory (3:07)


= 13 mins 35 secs



LP1 Side B:


Acknowledge Me (5:27)


Ripopgodazippa (4:39)


Love Sign (Shock G's Silky Remix) (3:53)


= 13 mins 59 secs



LP2 Side A:


Hide The Bone (5:04)


2morrow (4:14)


So Dark (5:14)


= 14 mins 32 secs



LP2 Side B:


Movie Star (4:26)


Tell Me How U Wanna B Done (3:16)


Interactive (3:04)


Da Bang (3:20)


= 14 mins 06 secs



LP3 Side A:


Calhoun Square (4:47)


What's My Name (3:04)


Crucial (5:06)


An Honest Man (1:13)


= 14mins 10secs



LP3 Side B:


Sexual Suicide (3:40)


Cloreen Bacon Skin (15:37)


= 19 mins 17 secs



LP4 Side A:


Good Love (4:55)


Strays Of The World (5:07)


= 10mins 02 secs



LP4 Side B:


Days Of Wild (9:19)


Last Heart (3:02)


Poom Poom (4:32)


She Gave Her Angels (3:53)


= 20 mins 46 secs



LP5 Side A:


18 & Over (5:40)


The Ride (5:14)


Get Loose (3:31)


P. Control (Remix) (6:00)


= 20 mins 25 secs



LP5 Side B:


Make Your Mama Happy (4:01)


Goodbye (4:35)
= 8 mins 36 secs



For me this wouldn't work. I rarely listen to the whole set in one sitting. So I think of each disc as it's own album.

Interactive has to be the first song of disc 2.
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Reply #7 posted 02/22/20 5:04am

VaultCurator

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Romeoblu said:

I have albums with sides that are about 27 mins long and they sound fine. Two examples are Lotus Flower side 2 and Beck's Odelay side 2. Therefore Crystal Ball could go on 3 lps.


Yeah, maybe I'm over thinking it. Sorry guys.

If it can be done on 3LPs I'd much prefer it that way. It'll help keep the cost down to.


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Reply #8 posted 02/22/20 5:47am

RODSERLING

The 6 LP Emancipation was just a cash grabbing, since it could have hold on a 4LP edition.
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Reply #9 posted 02/22/20 5:59am

Romeoblu

RODSERLING said:

The 6 LP Emancipation was just a cash grabbing, since it could have hold on a 4LP edition.



That would have split up the 3 discs missing tracks from each album.

I think the 6 lp set was the correct way to handle it.
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Reply #10 posted 02/22/20 6:09am

djThunderfunk

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VaultCurator said:

Hi Urine, I think tracks cross fading and time constraints are going to dictate how Crystal Ball will be split across vinyl. Anyone reading this can correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe that Sony Legacy are working from master tapes. There are tell tell signs that their reissues are being produced from commercial CDs. For example, on Anthology the song 'Crucial' fades out a split second earlier than on Crystal Ball to disguise the fact that 'Honest Man' is about to start in the background. As such I think sides will be split where there is distinct silence between tracks.


I have the Musicology & 3121 vinyl reissues. They were definitely NOT from the CDs. The brickwalling on the CDs and digital copies is not present on the LPs. As a result, they sound MUCH MUCH better than the discs.

djThunderfunk said:
Not because of some silly milano on the org.

PennyPurple thought it was racial slur and said:
Ban! Ban! Ban! Ban! Ban! lol
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Reply #11 posted 02/22/20 6:20am

VaultCurator

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djThunderfunk said:

VaultCurator said:

Hi Urine, I think tracks cross fading and time constraints are going to dictate how Crystal Ball will be split across vinyl. Anyone reading this can correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not believe that Sony Legacy are working from master tapes. There are tell tell signs that their reissues are being produced from commercial CDs. For example, on Anthology the song 'Crucial' fades out a split second earlier than on Crystal Ball to disguise the fact that 'Honest Man' is about to start in the background. As such I think sides will be split where there is distinct silence between tracks.


I have the Musicology & 3121 vinyl reissues. They were definitely NOT from the CDs. The brickwalling on the CDs and digital copies is not present on the LPs. As a result, they sound MUCH MUCH better than the discs.


Hi DJ Thunderfunk,

Thanks for the info. This is good to know. Do you think they're working from master tapes then? If so I wonder why they couldn't source one for The Versace Experience.

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Reply #12 posted 02/22/20 6:28am

jdcxc

This needs to be a Sony reissue...on vinyl and CD. A lot of great material in the collection. A couple of the cd’s were ganked from my car and I need to re-up!
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Reply #13 posted 02/22/20 6:35am

RODSERLING

Romeoblu said:

RODSERLING said:

The 6 LP Emancipation was just a cash grabbing, since it could have hold on a 4LP edition.



That would have split up the 3 discs missing tracks from each album.

I think the 6 lp set was the correct way to handle it.


Who cares if the songs of one CD is splitter between a vinyl and a half lol?
As long as it's in the same order.
Beside pricing it artificially higher and make the set more heavy, nobody understood the point .
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Reply #14 posted 02/22/20 7:14am

djThunderfunk

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VaultCurator said:

djThunderfunk said:


I have the Musicology & 3121 vinyl reissues. They were definitely NOT from the CDs. The brickwalling on the CDs and digital copies is not present on the LPs. As a result, they sound MUCH MUCH better than the discs.


Hi DJ Thunderfunk,

Thanks for the info. This is good to know. Do you think they're working from master tapes then? If so I wonder why they couldn't source one for The Versace Experience.


I would assume they would have to be working from masters, considering the differences. I figured the issue with Versace was that all they had was the cassette, but that's just a guess. The CD sounds to these ears like that is the case anyway. Everything else I've personally heard from Legacy has been the same (CDs: Rave Ultimate) or improved (IMO) for vinyl (LPs: 3121, Musicology, C&D). It wasn't as noticeable on Chaos as the other two, but it was better.

djThunderfunk said:
Not because of some silly milano on the org.

PennyPurple thought it was racial slur and said:
Ban! Ban! Ban! Ban! Ban! lol
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Reply #15 posted 02/22/20 7:41am

christobole

Really shouldn't be spread over 12 vinyl sides, that'd be ridiculous. Wouldn't buy that.

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Reply #16 posted 02/22/20 7:48am

dualboot

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Already searching for transparant casing:
http://ibmcollectable.com.../3330_pack

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Reply #17 posted 02/22/20 12:56pm

Rimshottbob

RODSERLING said:

The 6 LP Emancipation was just a cash grabbing, since it could have hold on a 4LP edition.

Hmm, everything to you is a 'cashgrab' or a 'thievery', so it's hard to take this seriously.

Emancipation on 6LPs wasn't a cahgrab at all. It was the ONLY way to present that album on vinyl.

Emancipation had a thematic shape, each disc had its own feel, its own style and theme.

Crystal Ball, love it or loathe it was just a thrown-together comp, tracks randonly smushed together, one after another on a disc. They didn't form cohesive, satisfying albums.

So while I would like to see the tracklisting maintained for historical purposes, it doesn't have to be split up distinctly like Emancipation was.

If some tracks from 'CD 1' spilled over onto another piece of vinyl, which they then shared with tracks from 'CD2' then it would be no big deal.

I can imagine them sticking to the original tracklisting, with perhaps the odd switcheroo to make things fit better on the sides timing-wise.

This was always a common practise actually. Vinyl versions of albums quite often differed from thier CD counterparts in terms of track order, in order to make them fit the media.

I don't doubt that Crystal Ball WILL get a release, most likely this year.

And, as DJ Thunderfunk noted, these vinyl pressings from Sony are definitely NOT just vinyl copies of CD masters. They sound INFINTELY better in almost every case, to the point where the CDs are basically obselete (at least to me).

That brickwalled bullshit sounds absurd once you actually hear these albums as they SHOULD sound, MINUS the brickwalling.

Can we just have a sticky that notes this - the Sony vinyl reissues are the DEFINITIVE VERSIONS OF THESE ALBUMS IN TERMS OF SOUND QUALITY.

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Reply #18 posted 02/22/20 1:22pm

djThunderfunk

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Rimshottbob said:

the Sony vinyl reissues are the DEFINITIVE VERSIONS OF THESE ALBUMS IN TERMS OF SOUND QUALITY.


I don't if they're better for the one's that already had vinyl like Rave or Rainbow, but for those that never had a vinyl release, this seems to be the case.

djThunderfunk said:
Not because of some silly milano on the org.

PennyPurple thought it was racial slur and said:
Ban! Ban! Ban! Ban! Ban! lol
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Reply #19 posted 02/23/20 3:45am

ChickenMcNugge
ts

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A release of this would be my number one Prince vinyl 'want' for this year, for sure. This is assuming there's nothing terribly special announced for RSD, no solution comes for the TGE legal impasse and Warner doesn't do anything with Come for the final year it has the rights - and those things are all looking relatively unlikely...

As for the sequencing and number of records it's spread across, I'm not terribly bothered. Six discs and the same RRP as Emancipation would be fine by me.

[Edited 2/23/20 3:46am]

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Reply #20 posted 02/23/20 1:58pm

Rimshottbob

djThunderfunk said:

Rimshottbob said:

the Sony vinyl reissues are the DEFINITIVE VERSIONS OF THESE ALBUMS IN TERMS OF SOUND QUALITY.


I don't if they're better for the one's that already had vinyl like Rave or Rainbow, but for those that never had a vinyl release, this seems to be the case.

Well, the new Rave vinyl definitely sounds better than the original Rave vinyl (also it includes Prettyman, of course, which the original vinyl didn't).

Can't speak to the new Rainbow Children vinyl, of course, as have not heard it yet, but my original vinyl copy of Rainbow Children sounds fine, but not spectacular. I would expect, given the track record over the last year or so, that the new one should sound better. Time will tell, but I'm optimistic.

Don't give a rat's ass about a slipmat, and wish it was on black vinyl, instead of clear, but ah well, we takes what we can gets.

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Reply #21 posted 02/23/20 4:14pm

djThunderfunk

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Rimshottbob said:

djThunderfunk said:


I don't if they're better for the one's that already had vinyl like Rave or Rainbow, but for those that never had a vinyl release, this seems to be the case.

Well, the new Rave vinyl definitely sounds better than the original Rave vinyl (also it includes Prettyman, of course, which the original vinyl didn't).

Can't speak to the new Rainbow Children vinyl, of course, as have not heard it yet, but my original vinyl copy of Rainbow Children sounds fine, but not spectacular. I would expect, given the track record over the last year or so, that the new one should sound better. Time will tell, but I'm optimistic.

Don't give a rat's ass about a slipmat, and wish it was on black vinyl, instead of clear, but ah well, we takes what we can gets.


I won't be in a hurry to get another Rainbow vinyl, so please report pack with a comparison of the original and the new. You might talk me into it. wink

djThunderfunk said:
Not because of some silly milano on the org.

PennyPurple thought it was racial slur and said:
Ban! Ban! Ban! Ban! Ban! lol
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Reply #22 posted 02/25/20 3:08am

Harps

I can't listen to Crystal Ball from start to finish with its original sequencing. It's a mess jumping from decade to decade.. Days of Wild into Last Heart!!!!! Really????

.

Ive resequenced it chronologically and it flows much better.
.

Just to add, if Crystal Ball had to be trimmed I could line without Get Loose, which adds absolutely nothing to the original song and P. Control (Remix) - terrible!

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Reply #23 posted 02/25/20 2:12pm

LoveGalore

One of the worst records in terms of vinyl viability. It was not created with vinyl in mind whatsoever and would be a nightmare to port to that format. Album continuity, however random and assbackwards, should always be retained across formats. That would end up making this set cost way too much considering it's 2 CDs of music.
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Reply #24 posted 02/29/20 1:38pm

MIInsane

Harps said:

I can't listen to Crystal Ball from start to finish with its original sequencing. It's a mess jumping from decade to decade.. Days of Wild into Last Heart!!!!! Really????

.

Ive resequenced it chronologically and it flows much better.
.

Just to add, if Crystal Ball had to be trimmed I could line without Get Loose, which adds absolutely nothing to the original song and P. Control (Remix) - terrible!

Would love to see your chronological tracklist.

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