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Reply #90 posted 10/01/19 4:35am

violetcrush

BartVanHemelen said:



violetcrush said:





You or someone had stated he was deep into JW with Larry prior to his Son’s death, however, Prince and Larry discussed how they met in ‘98-‘99 interviews and they stated they met while Prince was on the JOTY tour. Prince invited Larry to play at one of his after shows - I think in TN.



.


The person to "blame" is Lee Harris, a fan who mentioned Larry Graham being in the vicinity of a Prince concert on L4OA, which caused the two to meet.


I hadn't Heard about Lee Harris being the messenger. When Larry and Prince did a televised interview in 1999 Larry told the story of how they met, and stated he was playing a show in the same city at a smaller venue. Prince, or someone in his camp invited Larry to play at his after show. During his Larry King interview Prince mentioned he was impressed that Larry’s wife was carrying around his guitar pedal in her purse. He said, “now, THAT’S love!”
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Reply #91 posted 10/01/19 5:10am

violetcrush

benni said:



violetcrush said:




OperatingThetan said:


An interesting and provocative article. What I will add, as a former Jehovah's Witness, is that the majority of Prince's lyrics and statements regarding the faith were subject to his own interpretation. What he presented was in actuality his own personal hybrid, that differs from official JW doctrines, particularly in his tendency to blend JW beliefs with more Eastern spiritual concepts, many of which (the third eye, energy fields, the Akashic Records, chakra points, etc.) would be unacceptable for a regular, 'rank and file' JW to espouse. In addition, Prince linked his faith to interpretations of politics, history and government, that are generally strongly discouraged among Jehovah's Witnesses who are politically neutral. While Larry Graham spoke of his faith and engaged Prince in Bible Studies, as is typical of any Jehovah's Witness to any interested person (the perogative of the Jehovah's Witness is to witness), the beliefs Prince came away with were very much his own blend and were possibly 'tolerated' due to his fame and stature. Larry witnessing to Prince was not exceptional at all. He merely did as he was trained in terms of the studies themselves and followed the tenets of a faith he clearly has a strong conviction in. Jehovah's Witness Elders and study conductors are unpaid and all donations go directly to the Watchtower Society, so Larry's only possible financial motive would be the boost to his musical and touring career, which did not require the need for Bible studies or a spiritual relationship. Chaka Khan also released an album and toured with Prince in the same year with no religious connotations whatsoever. * [Edited 9/30/19 13:09pm] [Edited 9/30/19 13:10pm]


Thank you for the information. I had mentioned Prince incorporating the Eastern spiritual aspects (Third Eye, etc) into his music in later years, which was an indication to me that he was moving away from the more strict JW following. I agree with, and have said the same on other threads, that the JW gave Prince much more "leeway" with his practices and public presentation of the JW faith.


*


I never thought that Larry was receiving any type of financial gain by witnessing to Prince and bringing him in to the JW faith, but my thought was always that he arrived during a very vulnerable time for Prince - just after he had lost his Son, and Prince may have been more easily influenced with regard to learning and joining the JW faith.


*


Wondering if you can shed more light on the belief that JW discourage friendship or close relations with those who are not members? If that is the case it may also speak to how and why Larry moved to MN and quickly became a best friend to Prince.




There was always some element of Eastern teachings in Prince's music, prior to becoming a JW atarting around 1980 with Uptown from Dirty Mind, while he was a JW, and after. He's kind of always blended his ideologies and beliefs, pulling from various places. With Uptown, it's like he kind of touched on it, but just barely. In 1981, with the Controversy release, he began delving into it a little more, I think.




I’m sure he had touched on it in his earlier music, but I think he went much further with it during his last few years - the Third Eye Chakra and naming his band TEG, his Lunar cycle shirt that he often wore, and some of his songs. I think he was much deeper into it in later years.
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Reply #92 posted 10/01/19 10:30am

TrivialPursuit

avatar

violetcrush said:


I hadn't Heard about Lee Harris being the messenger. When Larry and Prince did a televised interview in 1999 Larry told the story of how they met, and stated he was playing a show in the same city at a smaller venue. Prince, or someone in his camp invited Larry to play at his after show. During his Larry King interview Prince mentioned he was impressed that Larry’s wife was carrying around his guitar pedal in her purse. He said, “now, THAT’S love!”


To add to that, it was Graham or Prince that said Graham and his family used to attend Prince concerts, but would leave when Prince started cussing too much. It was so pretentious and dramatic.

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Reply #93 posted 10/01/19 10:36am

Strive

violetcrush said:

I guess it’s possible that Still Would Stand was always about God, but it’s surprising that he made it about a woman when he sang it during the ‘88 after shows. I think he just morphed it into God being the subject. I think Grand Progression was strictly about him finding “heaven on Earth” when being held by his woman “darling it seems I have found the grand progression whenever I’m in your arms...”. And Rock Hard in a Funky Place is just his play on words for rocking hard playing funky music or the more sinister idea of “something else” being “rock hard” in some funky place. I believe Elephants and Flowers was a poem written by Ingrid Chavez.


To specify, I was thinking of the lines

Rockhard = "All you're looking for is love, only reason to believe there's a God above, pretty soon you'll get enough, and head back to your life so tired"
Grand Progression = "If there really is a God, to him I owe my life with you my love"

Elephants And Flowers = "Boy is lonely on a burning hot summer night
He's looking for an angel to hold him 'til the morning light"



So he uses love and God interchangably, but he also seems to conflate love with women. Songs about God/love become songs about women and vice versa. Depending on the mood of the artist smile



Another example of him using love and God interchangably is the early version of New Power Generation Pt. 2, in the early version, he says "If you're sad and you know it and you think you want to blow it, look up in the sky, God is there" and in the final version he replaced God with love and added the rap from T.C. Ellis.

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Reply #94 posted 10/01/19 2:03pm

violetcrush

Strive said:

violetcrush said:

I guess it’s possible that Still Would Stand was always about God, but it’s surprising that he made it about a woman when he sang it during the ‘88 after shows. I think he just morphed it into God being the subject. I think Grand Progression was strictly about him finding “heaven on Earth” when being held by his woman “darling it seems I have found the grand progression whenever I’m in your arms...”. And Rock Hard in a Funky Place is just his play on words for rocking hard playing funky music or the more sinister idea of “something else” being “rock hard” in some funky place. I believe Elephants and Flowers was a poem written by Ingrid Chavez.


To specify, I was thinking of the lines

Rockhard = "All you're looking for is love, only reason to believe there's a God above, pretty soon you'll get enough, and head back to your life so tired"
Grand Progression = "If there really is a God, to him I owe my life with you my love"

Elephants And Flowers = "Boy is lonely on a burning hot summer night
He's looking for an angel to hold him 'til the morning light"



So he uses love and God interchangably, but he also seems to conflate love with women. Songs about God/love become songs about women and vice versa. Depending on the mood of the artist smile



Another example of him using love and God interchangably is the early version of New Power Generation Pt. 2, in the early version, he says "If you're sad and you know it and you think you want to blow it, look up in the sky, God is there" and in the final version he replaced God with love and added the rap from T.C. Ellis.

I think you are reading too much into Rockhard In a Funky Place....

*

Here comes a lady so you cover up
She's a freaked out
Funky electric mama with double cups
You couldn’t cop if you wanted to
Because something near your leg
Is haunting you, such a disgrace
You're rock hard in a funky place, ow!

*

You was working on the line
You could drop on her
But you couldn't concentrate
When your dick so hard
Maybe if you cop a nut in the car (Maybe if you cop a nut in the car)
Maybe you could think
About playing guitar

*

All you're looking for is love
Or a reason to believe there's a God above
Pretty soon you'll get enough
And head back to a life so tough
I just hate to see an erection go to waste
I'm just-a rock hard in a funky place

*

^^^ This is Prince most likely talking about himself (as he was always at nightclubs) and/or referring to just about any single guy at a nightclub back then biggrin The bolded lyric that you mentioned is Prince referring to himself or any guy trying to find someone to love at a dark and dingy nightclub, and he's adding the hilarity of him or any guy trying to hide his erection after checking out the "funky electric woman with double cups" walking by. BUT, it's a play on words, so it can also mean Prince walking around the club before going on stage and he sees the "funky electric woman with double cups" who gives him an erection, so he has to "cop a nut" (aka jerk off) in the car so he can think about playing his guitar. Totally funny and blatant song about normal guy stuff.

*

The Grand Progression:

*

Can it b n this seemingly short space of time
We've lived a year or 2 inside our minds?
Now I want 2 whisper n ur ear
That U're OK

If love were gold then I would b fixed 4 life
If I was a star, then baby, U would b the night
And I want 2 live my whole life thru
Inside of U

Darling, it seems I have found the grand progression
Whenever I'm n ur arms
From July until June, every sun and every moon
Melting inside ur charms

If there really is a God up above
2 Him I owe my life 4 U my love
Now darling, if I died yesterday
It's OK

*

^^^ This is a straight-up love song - and a beautiful one at that - one of may favorites. Prince is not interchanging love and God in this song. He is saying he is thankful to God for bringing this woman to him (last bolded verse) and saying if there really is a God up above he owes him his life for bringing this woman to him, and if he died yesterday it would be okay, because he has found "the grand progression" (aka heaven on Earth) being with this woman. This song is actually a great example of Prince still posing questions about his faith in the mid 80's.

*

Elephants and Flowers

*

Even with this song -where there is definitely a reference to God - I think the term "angel" is referring to a human girl and not a heavenly figure:

*

Boy is lonely on a burning hot summer night
He's looking for some action, he's looking 4 a fight
He's looking for a savior in a city full of fools
Maybe he just needs a good talker to give him a good talking to.
Can we talk baby? Strip down, strip down.
I think I'm gonna fall in love tonight.

*

Elephants and flowers, hot sweaty light paints a picture red and gold
On a crowd of naked bodies stripped down to their very souls
How can he find a shy angel in a city so bold (so bold)
He can't even find a place to dance, this is rock and roll.
Strip down, strip down, elephants and flowers
Is everybody ready? Here we go.

*

Prince is saying he (or someone) is looking for a sweet shy girl to talk to among the sweaty loud naked body rock and roll scene - most likely a night club again.

*

The verse below is definitely referring to God, and is Prince saying to "love God", who will be there for you when you are alone and have no one else:

*

Love the one who is love, (well) the one who gives us the power, (power)
The one who made everything, (everything) elephants and flowers (oh, yeah)
The one who will listen when all others will not. (all others will not)
There will be peace for those who love god a lot.

*

As far as the New Power Generation song goes - I'm sure he probably used the term love to mean God in the revised song. That one was him creating his next "movement" after The Revolution.

[Edited 10/1/19 14:04pm]

[Edited 10/1/19 14:07pm]

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Reply #95 posted 10/01/19 2:58pm

jfenster

TrivialPursuit said:

violetcrush said:


I hadn't Heard about Lee Harris being the messenger. When Larry and Prince did a televised interview in 1999 Larry told the story of how they met, and stated he was playing a show in the same city at a smaller venue. Prince, or someone in his camp invited Larry to play at his after show. During his Larry King interview Prince mentioned he was impressed that Larry’s wife was carrying around his guitar pedal in her purse. He said, “now, THAT’S love!”


To add to that, it was Graham or Prince that said Graham and his family used to attend Prince concerts, but would leave when Prince started cussing too much. It was so pretentious and dramatic.

watch the uncut video of Prince with flavor flav from webby awards....its incomfortable with all that cussing..u feel bad for Prince

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Reply #96 posted 10/01/19 3:04pm

onlyforaminute

3rd Eye
1996
Using a special code he accessed his mind
In search of the reason why
In passion and fashion he began travelin' time
3rd eye, 3rd eye, 3rd eye
The serpent approves
Then appears between Adam's thighs
And he tries 2 release upon Eve the nectar
The injector tries
He tries, he tries, he tries
So abduction complete
All stand on their feet
Look at one another and cry
What have we done?
Could this be the fun
On the dotted line 4 which I did sign?
Oh yeah
I resign from the notion
Cuz yours was the potion
That I'm supposed 2 die 4
I resign
In self-pity so dark
This shitty and stark
Realization is all that will soothe Ultimately the only one
That can save U is U
Your God is inside and 4 that God U will do
Whatever it takes
If nothing else is true
The only one that can save U is U, yeah

As simplistic as it is that last verse has alway intrigued me. I think it sums up his thinking
Year of Return 2019
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Reply #97 posted 10/01/19 3:49pm

Strive

re:violetcrush - I feel like I'm not properly explaining. Let me try again from scratch.

.

Idea 1: Prince uses love and God interchangeably in some of his lyrics. This would be songs like Still Would Stand All Time, Strays Of The World, New Power Generation Pt. 2. When you swap out love with God, you can see the true meaning and get a glimpse of how a religion like the JW could appeal to him.

.

Idea 2: Prince conflates the concept of God's love with the physical love of a woman. The physical love of a woman is proof of God's love and these women were heaven-sent to ease his woes. This would be songs like Grand Progression, Elephants & Flowers, Rockhard In A Funky Place. Also the Muse/Manuela thread that's running through The Rainbow Children.

.

Idea 1 and 2 don't always overlap.

.

Obviously Rockhard isn't a song about God or love (it's a joking song about him visiting a whorehouse because he's so horned up he can't think straight - to quote the original Tick Tick Bang that leaked on Work It "I can't concentrate, when I see you, bang bang tick bang, I wanna bang, you want to masturbate, baby girl it ain't the same as the real thing") but it is a song where he says that physical love from a woman is the reason to believe that there's a God above. Same as Grand Progression. Same as Elephants & Flowers. Same as Muse.

.

The overlap of idea 1 and idea 2 would be with songs like Still Would Stand All Time and The One.
.
Like you mentioned, in a live setting, Still Would Stand All Time was attributed to a woman instead of God. Similar, The One became a song about "respect for the Creator" when anybody listening to it would attribute it to a woman. Who gets credit seems to depend on Prince's mood at the moment.
.
For example, the original take of Elephants & Flowers had him saying "no sex, no drugs, no devil here, just good ol' rock n roll" and "don't kiss me, just talk to me". When Elephants & Flowers morphed into the version we know ("strip down", "i think i'm gonna fall in love tonight", and him actively searching for the woman instead of the woman picking him for reasons he didn't understand) and the one he performed live, Still Would Stand All Time also changed when he performed it live. Similar to that, The One was written about (again if you believe her) Mayte and how he would treat his woman right...then when it went into a live setting and his relationship with Mayte was on the rocks, it became about "respect for the Creator" and "following the highest ideal and [...] living up to the goals of The One". Even though he revisited some of those concepts from The One on Man 'O' War (another song clearly about Mayte and one that was written after that interview we're quoting)

.

It's all pretty interesting to think about. That's why I'm really excited to hear Bold Generation (the earliest version of New Power Generation) on 1999 Deluxe.





[Edited 10/1/19 16:04pm]

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Reply #98 posted 10/01/19 4:23pm

violetcrush

Strive said:

re:violetcrush - I feel like I'm not properly explaining. Let me try again from scratch.

.

Idea 1: Prince uses love and God interchangeably in some of his lyrics. This would be songs like Still Would Stand All Time, Strays Of The World, New Power Generation Pt. 2. When you swap out love with God, you can see the true meaning and get a glimpse of how a religion like the JW could appeal to him.

.

Idea 2: Prince conflates the concept of God's love with the physical love of a woman. The physical love of a woman is proof of God's love and these women were heaven-sent to ease his woes. This would be songs like Grand Progression, Elephants & Flowers, Rockhard In A Funky Place. Also the Muse/Manuela thread that's running through The Rainbow Children.

.

Idea 1 and 2 don't always overlap.

.

Obviously Rockhard isn't a song about God or love (it's a joking song about him visiting a whorehouse because he's so horned up he can't think straight - to quote the original Tick Tick Bang that leaked on Work It "I can't concentrate, when I see you, bang bang tick bang, I wanna bang, you want to masturbate, baby girl it ain't the same as the real thing") but it is a song where he says that physical love from a woman is the reason to believe that there's a God above. Same as Grand Progression. Same as Elephants & Flowers. Same as Muse.

.

The overlap of idea 1 and idea 2 would be with songs like Still Would Stand All Time and The One.
.
Like you mentioned, in a live setting, Still Would Stand All Time was attributed to a woman instead of God. Similar, The One became a song about "respect for the Creator" when anybody listening to it would attribute it to a woman. Who gets credit seems to depend on Prince's mood at the moment.
.
For example, the original take of Elephants & Flowers had him saying "no sex, no drugs, no devil here, just good ol' rock n roll" and "don't kiss me, just talk to me". When Elephants & Flowers morphed into the version we know ("strip down", "i think i'm gonna fall in love tonight", and him actively searching for the woman instead of the woman picking him for reasons he didn't understand) and the one he performed live, Still Would Stand All Time also changed when he performed it live. Similar to that, The One was written about (again if you believe her) Mayte and how he would treat his woman right...then when it went into a live setting and his relationship with Mayte was on the rocks, it became about "respect for the Creator" and "following the highest ideal and [...] living up to the goals of The One". Even though he revisited some of those concepts from The One on Man 'O' War (another song clearly about Mayte and one that was written after that interview we're quoting)

.

It's all pretty interesting to think about. That's why I'm really excited to hear Bold Generation (the earliest version of New Power Generation) on 1999 Deluxe.





[Edited 10/1/19 16:04pm]

I see what you are saying, and yes, he occasionally changed the subject of his songs from female love to love for God. Though I definitely think that songs like Tick Tick Bang and The Grand Progression differ in their meaning in terms of his connection with a woman. TTB is just Prince creaming over a girl that he doesn't know or love, but he wants in a physical way - You're such a bombshell, And if I ever get ya, ever get ya, ever get ya,There's no telling how long I'd last Before I tick, tick bang all over you." TGP is a heartfelt expression of deeper love for a certain woman - it is not Prince just wanting a one night stand. He is saying that being in her arms is the best he's ever felt, and if he died then he would die a happy man - "darling it seems I have found the grand progression whenever I'm in your arms. From July until June, every sun and every moon, melting inside your charms..."

*

I think Prince made it pretty easy to distinguish between his more heartfelt love songs vs his raunchier songs about sex/flings with random women smile

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Reply #99 posted 10/01/19 5:05pm

Strive

violetcrush said:


You're still talking the whole of the song instead of following specific threads of thought that are weaved throughout. I only brought up TTB because it related to a thread in Rockhard In A Funky Place. The same type of thread can be found in We Can Fuck and a number of other songs where a pretty girl exists by Prince and he gets so horned up that he becomes sex-crazed.

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Reply #100 posted 10/01/19 6:22pm

violetcrush

Strive said:

violetcrush said:


You're still talking the whole of the song instead of following specific threads of thought that are weaved throughout. I only brought up TTB because it related to a thread in Rockhard In A Funky Place. The same type of thread can be found in We Can Fuck and a number of other songs where a pretty girl exists by Prince and he gets so horned up that he becomes sex-crazed.

Yes, yes I understand the threads of thought, and I agree with you that the songs you mentioned above are all his scenario of being sex-crazed when a pretty girl comes around. My comment was that you can easily distinguish between those songs and his more heartfelt love songs. They are very different both in tone and lyric.

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Reply #101 posted 10/02/19 2:22pm

herb4

avatar

I think a lot of us are using too many words to describe how Prince always used to try at least to juxtapose lust vs love and...for lack of a better way of putting it...compare the feeling of having an orgasm with a religious experience or sorts. And I could kind of sort of get with that because who doesn't want peace and salvation through love and still totally dig fucking someone they're really in love with?

This was a little bit different than the much more rigid and preachy approach he embraced around the turn of the century and, frankly, even though it might arguably be more mature, it was WAY less fun.

Time was, we were all welcome "Uptown", to embrace DMSR, and embrace the freedom of "Sexuality" but later on (as the writer explains), getting divided into groups during a PP celebration, embracing a theocratic order, being told "this is how it's gonna be" and faced with either becoming Rainbow Children or becoming "Banished Ones" well...

Yeah, OK Prince, you do you but fuck right off with that shit.

And, OK, fine. No more naughty words and you want kids to come to the show. That's cool. Again you do you. But to this day I still get a chuckle about people clutching pearls and getting the vapors over some "naughty" words and never understood the fuss. SUre, I don't want my 8 year old kid listening to Let's Pretend We're Married but that doesn't make it BAD. Just not intended for kids. He can always watch you on the muppet show.

I have a hard time believing that my use of profanity is deeply offending some invisible man in the sky because some people got together and decided that certain words were dirty and evil. Some argue that cursing is childish but I think that acting like using them is shooting poison knives out of your mouth is equally so.

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Reply #102 posted 10/02/19 2:53pm

violetcrush

herb4 said:

I think a lot of us are using too many words to describe how Prince always used to try at least to juxtapose lust vs love and...for lack of a better way of putting it...compare the feeling of having an orgasm with a religious experience or sorts. And I could kind of sort of get with that because who doesn't want peace and salvation through love and still totally dig fucking someone they're really in love with?

This was a little bit different than the much more rigid and preachy approach he embraced around the turn of the century and, frankly, even though it might arguably be more mature, it was WAY less fun.

Time was, we were all welcome "Uptown", to embrace DMSR, and embrace the freedom of "Sexuality" but later on (as the writer explains), getting divided into groups during a PP celebration, embracing a theocratic order, being told "this is how it's gonna be" and faced with either becoming Rainbow Children or becoming "Banished Ones" well...

Yeah, OK Prince, you do you but fuck right off with that shit.

And, OK, fine. No more naughty words and you want kids to come to the show. That's cool. Again you do you. But to this day I still get a chuckle about people clutching pearls and getting the vapors over some "naughty" words and never understood the fuss. SUre, I don't want my 8 year old kid listening to Let's Pretend We're Married but that doesn't make it BAD. Just not intended for kids. He can always watch you on the muppet show.

I have a hard time believing that my use of profanity is deeply offending some invisible man in the sky because some people got together and decided that certain words were dirty and evil. Some argue that cursing is childish but I think that acting like using them is shooting poison knives out of your mouth is equally so.

Prince has many songs about love and relationships which are not at all blatant with regard to sexual content. We've got Condition of the Heart, Empty Room, Adore, Forever In My Life, IIWYG, Diamonds & Pearls, TMBGITW - to name just a few. He had a nice balance of the raunchier, straight up sexual songs and the more emotional, deeper love songs.

*

I do agree that he really took things to another level with his music once he moved into the JW faith. Comparable to other artists his songs and language were quite tame in the 80's and 90's. I understand him wanting to cut out singing or saying the F-bomb when performing, but he was pulling out any and all curse words. I hated DMSR during that time -"work that body like you want some more"?? Really? And he couldn't sing "what the hell did you come here for"?? Sorry, but "hell" and "whore" really are not that bad.

*

I bet he would still let the F-bomb fly when he was alone lol

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Reply #103 posted 10/02/19 4:38pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar


herb4 said:


Time was, we were all welcome "Uptown", to embrace DMSR, and embrace the freedom of "Sexuality" but later on (as the writer explains), getting divided into groups during a PP celebration, embracing a theocratic order, being told "this is how it's gonna be" and faced with either becoming Rainbow Children or becoming "Banished Ones" well...

Yeah, OK Prince, you do you but fuck right off with that shit.


Whoa. That happened?!?! What the fuck?

Just for the record, I didn't mention this specific incident but certainly alluded to the general nature of Prince's divisive proselytizing.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
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Reply #104 posted 10/02/19 7:38pm

violetcrush

TrivialPursuit said:



herb4 said:



Time was, we were all welcome "Uptown", to embrace DMSR, and embrace the freedom of "Sexuality" but later on (as the writer explains), getting divided into groups during a PP celebration, embracing a theocratic order, being told "this is how it's gonna be" and faced with either becoming Rainbow Children or becoming "Banished Ones" well...

Yeah, OK Prince, you do you but fuck right off with that shit.




Whoa. That happened?!?! What the fuck?

Just for the record, I didn't mention this specific incident but certainly alluded to the general nature of Prince's divisive proselytizing.


Kevin Smith told that story. When Prince asked him to do a film at PP he arrived and found out that Prince wanted him to film his listening party for TRC. At one point Prince came in and started talking his religious schtick. He separated the fans into two groups to show how the ones who follow the Bible (or more specifically the New World Translation) would have the women and live in paradise or whatever. Yikes!! Sounded like a wackadoo week eek
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Reply #105 posted 10/02/19 8:04pm

skywalker

avatar

violetcrush said:

TrivialPursuit said:


Whoa. That happened?!?! What the fuck?

Just for the record, I didn't mention this specific incident but certainly alluded to the general nature of Prince's divisive proselytizing.

Kevin Smith told that story. When Prince asked him to do a film at PP he arrived and found out that Prince wanted him to film his listening party for TRC. At one point Prince came in and started talking his religious schtick. He separated the fans into two groups to show how the ones who follow the Bible (or more specifically the New World Translation) would have the women and live in paradise or whatever. Yikes!! Sounded like a wackadoo week eek

I was there. That's not what happened at all. They split you into small groups to go to different rooms at Paisley Park to listen to the new/unreleased album, The Rainbow Children. The groups were simply based on size/numbers that the rooms could accomodate.

-

After listening to the album, Prince's people (sometimes with Prince) would come around to talk about both the lyrics and the music. It was a Q and A session that delved deeper into the themes of the album. If Prince went to your group, Kevin Smith was filming. Yes, there was some God talk. It was less preachy than Church and about as religious as the cryptic talk on the L4OA website. Actually, Prince mostly listened to people's opinions and reactions.

-

Also, keep in mind: for all the talk about "How Prince changed" around this time, The Rainbow Children has some incredibly sexual lyrics.

-

I mean, "Wet circles around the toy while U bring Urself 2 joy..." is more (in many ways) graphic than saying "masturbating with a magazine." I cannot imagine JW doctorine or Larry Graham really approving of that.

[Edited 10/2/19 20:08pm]

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #106 posted 10/02/19 8:24pm

violetcrush

skywalker said:



violetcrush said:


TrivialPursuit said:


Whoa. That happened?!?! What the fuck?

Just for the record, I didn't mention this specific incident but certainly alluded to the general nature of Prince's divisive proselytizing.



Kevin Smith told that story. When Prince asked him to do a film at PP he arrived and found out that Prince wanted him to film his listening party for TRC. At one point Prince came in and started talking his religious schtick. He separated the fans into two groups to show how the ones who follow the Bible (or more specifically the New World Translation) would have the women and live in paradise or whatever. Yikes!! Sounded like a wackadoo week eek

I was there. That's not what happened at all. They split you into small groups to go to different rooms at Paisley Park to listen to the new/unreleased album, The Rainbow Children. The groups were simply based on size/numbers that the rooms could accomodate.


-


After listening to the album, Prince's people (sometimes with Prince) would come around to talk about both the lyrics and the music. It was a Q and A session that delved deeper into the themes of the album. If Prince went to your group, Kevin Smith was filming. Yes, there was some God talk. It was less preachy than Church and about as religious as the cryptic talk on the L4OA website. Actually, Prince mostly listened to people's opinions and reactions.


-


Also, keep in mind: for all the talk about "How Prince changed" around this time, The Rainbow Children has some incredibly sexual lyrics.


-


I mean, "Wet circles around the toy while U bring Urself 2 joy..." is more (in many ways) graphic than saying "masturbating with a magazine." I cannot imagine JW doctorine or Larry Graham really approving of that.

[Edited 10/2/19 20:08pm]


That is actually how Kevin described the sessions. The detail of Prince splitting people into two groups apparently took place during one of those sessions when Prince was “acting out” his message about following the Bible to maintain order in your life, or something of that nature.
*
I guess it’s possible that this occurred at a session with Prince that you did not attend? Kevin was there for a week filming everyday.
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Reply #107 posted 10/02/19 8:32pm

skywalker

avatar

violetcrush said:

skywalker said:

I was there. That's not what happened at all. They split you into small groups to go to different rooms at Paisley Park to listen to the new/unreleased album, The Rainbow Children. The groups were simply based on size/numbers that the rooms could accomodate.

-

After listening to the album, Prince's people (sometimes with Prince) would come around to talk about both the lyrics and the music. It was a Q and A session that delved deeper into the themes of the album. If Prince went to your group, Kevin Smith was filming. Yes, there was some God talk. It was less preachy than Church and about as religious as the cryptic talk on the L4OA website. Actually, Prince mostly listened to people's opinions and reactions.

-

Also, keep in mind: for all the talk about "How Prince changed" around this time, The Rainbow Children has some incredibly sexual lyrics.

-

I mean, "Wet circles around the toy while U bring Urself 2 joy..." is more (in many ways) graphic than saying "masturbating with a magazine." I cannot imagine JW doctorine or Larry Graham really approving of that.

[Edited 10/2/19 20:08pm]

That is actually how Kevin described the sessions. The detail of Prince splitting people into two groups apparently took place during one of those sessions when Prince was “acting out” his message about following the Bible to maintain order in your life, or something of that nature. * I guess it’s possible that this occurred at a session with Prince that you did not attend? Kevin was there for a week filming everyday.

It's possible. Yet, calling it a "wackadoo" week isn't really what it was. It was less Sunday school, and more geek talk about music, the media, societal issues, etc. There was no kool aid drinking, prayers, nor chanting. Like I said, less churchy/preachy than church. More like: Holy shit! Prince is here chatting with us?!?!

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #108 posted 10/02/19 8:47pm

violetcrush

skywalker said:



violetcrush said:


skywalker said:


I was there. That's not what happened at all. They split you into small groups to go to different rooms at Paisley Park to listen to the new/unreleased album, The Rainbow Children. The groups were simply based on size/numbers that the rooms could accomodate.


-


After listening to the album, Prince's people (sometimes with Prince) would come around to talk about both the lyrics and the music. It was a Q and A session that delved deeper into the themes of the album. If Prince went to your group, Kevin Smith was filming. Yes, there was some God talk. It was less preachy than Church and about as religious as the cryptic talk on the L4OA website. Actually, Prince mostly listened to people's opinions and reactions.


-


Also, keep in mind: for all the talk about "How Prince changed" around this time, The Rainbow Children has some incredibly sexual lyrics.


-


I mean, "Wet circles around the toy while U bring Urself 2 joy..." is more (in many ways) graphic than saying "masturbating with a magazine." I cannot imagine JW doctorine or Larry Graham really approving of that.


[Edited 10/2/19 20:08pm]



That is actually how Kevin described the sessions. The detail of Prince splitting people into two groups apparently took place during one of those sessions when Prince was “acting out” his message about following the Bible to maintain order in your life, or something of that nature. * I guess it’s possible that this occurred at a session with Prince that you did not attend? Kevin was there for a week filming everyday.

It's possible. Yet, calling it a "wackadoo" week isn't really what it was. It was less Sunday school, and more geek talk about music, the media, societal issues, etc. There was no kool aid drinking, prayers, nor chanting. Like I said, less churchy/preachy than church. More like: Holy shit! Prince is here chatting with us?!?!


Yes, I think Kevin said that as well - that it was mainly fans listening to TRC and giving their feedback about the record. Kevin did also mention that at one point Prince was supposed to join the group but wasn’t there, so he had to lead the discussion. He said he felt very uncomfortable, because he did not know the record or what Prince was trying to convey with the music. One of the fans stated he felt Prince was saying he hates white people. Kevin was frustrated because he did not know how to respond. He finally found Prince upstairs in his office, and when he told him what the fan said, Prince’s response was, “well, if the Bra fits...”. confused sad
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Reply #109 posted 10/02/19 10:22pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

violetcrush said:


Kevin Smith told that story. When Prince asked him to do a film at PP he arrived and found out that Prince wanted him to film his listening party for TRC. At one point Prince came in and started talking his religious schtick. He separated the fans into two groups to show how the ones who follow the Bible (or more specifically the New World Translation) would have the women and live in paradise or whatever. Yikes!! Sounded like a wackadoo week eek


I knew about Kevin going in there, but I must have missed that story. How horrible. But, you sorta have to dismiss it. It seems like one of those "he's in the honeymoon phase" moments; he was excited about his new album, and sucking down that JW KoolAid. But shit - to literally divide people up in a room where you want them to get something out of your record - what a shit move on his part. Wish I'd known that before I wrote the article! haha

It wasn't a wackadoo week on anyone's part, except Prince's.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
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Reply #110 posted 10/03/19 12:20am

mk456

avatar

skywalker said:

violetcrush said:

skywalker said: That is actually how Kevin described the sessions. The detail of Prince splitting people into two groups apparently took place during one of those sessions when Prince was “acting out” his message about following the Bible to maintain order in your life, or something of that nature. * I guess it’s possible that this occurred at a session with Prince that you did not attend? Kevin was there for a week filming everyday.

It's possible. Yet, calling it a "wackadoo" week isn't really what it was. It was less Sunday school, and more geek talk about music, the media, societal issues, etc. There was no kool aid drinking, prayers, nor chanting. Like I said, less churchy/preachy than church. More like: Holy shit! Prince is here chatting with us?!?!

*

Nice to hear about the overall tone of the week from skywalker who was actually there and who says 'a wackadoo week isnt really what what it was' - describing that it was less than Sunday school rather more talking about media, society, music and that Prince was mostly listening. Prince in his interviews seemed to treat all people with at least an initial basic level of respect - I kind of doubt he used words like 'banished ones' or wanted to give that imprint to 'fams' that he graciously invited into his home/ place of work Paisley Park - whether or not they felt they had been banished or that the week was wackadoo I guess we would have to hear from them directly. I guess if one was not in that specific room opinions about it (including my own) are all a bit subjective.

*

(Off topic: I heard about that week at the time and then KS's story and remember someone reported later that Prince had been annoyed (understandably imho) about the way Kevin Smith (who was a big fan) had 'publicly' kinda trashed him a little bit giving his view that P had not/should have explicitly thanked Smith at the end of the week (Smith was leaving the building but P apparently was doing some work in a studio) and for then publicly telling a long somewhat piss take story about his experience at PP. Smith later gave a online eulogy show after Prince passed on where he does nevertheless express regret that he didnt circle back at a later date and how he felt bad about telling that story and even teared up recalling how Prince had been friendly to him and his family - of course all thats a different topic/discussion already covered on org)

[Edited 10/3/19 0:22am]

[Edited 10/3/19 1:05am]

[Edited 10/3/19 1:08am]

God Bless Prince
(I've been on prince.org on and off since 1998. This is my 3rd or 4th username as I forgot passwords. Previous usernames were mgck01, sledgemcpeak. Peace to all here)
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Reply #111 posted 10/03/19 3:40am

violetcrush

mk456 said:



skywalker said:




violetcrush said:


skywalker said: That is actually how Kevin described the sessions. The detail of Prince splitting people into two groups apparently took place during one of those sessions when Prince was “acting out” his message about following the Bible to maintain order in your life, or something of that nature. * I guess it’s possible that this occurred at a session with Prince that you did not attend? Kevin was there for a week filming everyday.

It's possible. Yet, calling it a "wackadoo" week isn't really what it was. It was less Sunday school, and more geek talk about music, the media, societal issues, etc. There was no kool aid drinking, prayers, nor chanting. Like I said, less churchy/preachy than church. More like: Holy shit! Prince is here chatting with us?!?!




*


Nice to hear about the overall tone of the week from skywalker who was actually there and who says 'a wackadoo week isnt really what what it was' - describing that it was less than Sunday school rather more talking about media, society, music and that Prince was mostly listening. Prince in his interviews seemed to treat all people with at least an initial basic level of respect - I kind of doubt he used words like 'banished ones' or wanted to give that imprint to 'fams' that he graciously invited into his home/ place of work Paisley Park - whether or not they felt they had been banished or that the week was wackadoo I guess we would have to hear from them directly. I guess if one was not in that specific room opinions about it (including my own) are all a bit subjective.


*


(Off topic: I heard about that week at the time and then KS's story and remember someone reported later that Prince had been annoyed (understandably imho) about the way Kevin Smith (who was a big fan) had 'publicly' kinda trashed him a little bit giving his view that P had not/should have explicitly thanked Smith at the end of the week (Smith was leaving the building but P apparently was doing some work in a studio) and for then publicly telling a long somewhat piss take story about his experience at PP. Smith later gave a online eulogy show after Prince passed on where he does nevertheless express regret that he didnt circle back at a later date and how he felt bad about telling that story and even teared up recalling how Prince had been friendly to him and his family - of course all thats a different topic/discussion already covered on org)



[Edited 10/3/19 0:22am]


[Edited 10/3/19 1:05am]

[Edited 10/3/19 1:08am]


Yes, I watched both of Kevin’s videos in full - the first one about his experience working at PP, and the second one after Prince passed. I think his experience that week at PP, which was working as an associate, was obviously a different experience than that of a fan who paid to visit PP and listen to the music. Kevin really had no direction from day to day, and had no idea that he would just be filming the fan discussions about TRC. He thought he was there to do a video or some type of creative film. Prince was also not around when he needed him for specific reasons. Kevin was mainly just frustrated about the lack of direction or information about the project. He was going to leave early, and he asked one of his long-time associates to tell him, but she convinced him to stay - because you “don’t say no to Prince”.
*
Yes, Prince was no doubt annoyed with Kevin going public with that story, as he did not like anything critical said about him. I thought it was a very interesting look into what he was doing Back then, and also a funny anecdote about a day in the life of an associate. We know from many others it was not always a picnic.
Kevin did say some very nice things after Prince passed, and he talked about how nice he was to his kid when he was at PP.
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Reply #112 posted 10/03/19 5:46am

violetcrush

TrivialPursuit said:



violetcrush said:



Kevin Smith told that story. When Prince asked him to do a film at PP he arrived and found out that Prince wanted him to film his listening party for TRC. At one point Prince came in and started talking his religious schtick. He separated the fans into two groups to show how the ones who follow the Bible (or more specifically the New World Translation) would have the women and live in paradise or whatever. Yikes!! Sounded like a wackadoo week eek


I knew about Kevin going in there, but I must have missed that story. How horrible. But, you sorta have to dismiss it. It seems like one of those "he's in the honeymoon phase" moments; he was excited about his new album, and sucking down that JW KoolAid. But shit - to literally divide people up in a room where you want them to get something out of your record - what a shit move on his part. Wish I'd known that before I wrote the article! haha

It wasn't a wackadoo week on anyone's part, except Prince's.


Yes, he was in “full-on” JW mode during this time. This was just before the ONA tour where he was regularly “preaching” to his audiences, and performing most of his JW focused songs. I listened to one of the ONA soundcheck/NPGMC Q&A sessions, where Prince had a fan, who was a devout Christian and possibly a Minister, speaking for several minutes about following the Bible to lead a better life. Toward the end Prince chimed in to ask which version of the Bible he was referring to, and stated that following the New Translation version is the only correct and valid teaching. eek
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Reply #113 posted 10/03/19 1:15pm

jfenster

onlyforaminute said:

3rd Eye 1996 Using a special code he accessed his mind In search of the reason why In passion and fashion he began travelin' time 3rd eye, 3rd eye, 3rd eye The serpent approves Then appears between Adam's thighs And he tries 2 release upon Eve the nectar The injector tries He tries, he tries, he tries So abduction complete All stand on their feet Look at one another and cry What have we done? Could this be the fun On the dotted line 4 which I did sign? Oh yeah I resign from the notion Cuz yours was the potion That I'm supposed 2 die 4 I resign In self-pity so dark This shitty and stark Realization is all that will soothe Ultimately the only one That can save U is U Your God is inside and 4 that God U will do Whatever it takes If nothing else is true The only one that can save U is U, yeah As simplistic as it is that last verse has alway intrigued me. I think it sums up his thinking

no one realizes Prince and the hollywood community and the mafia and the government HAVE the comptuer program to access your thoughts..this is what he is refering to

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Reply #114 posted 10/03/19 7:26pm

onlyforaminute

jfenster said:



onlyforaminute said:


3rd Eye 1996 Using a special code he accessed his mind In search of the reason why In passion and fashion he began travelin' time 3rd eye, 3rd eye, 3rd eye The serpent approves Then appears between Adam's thighs And he tries 2 release upon Eve the nectar The injector tries He tries, he tries, he tries So abduction complete All stand on their feet Look at one another and cry What have we done? Could this be the fun On the dotted line 4 which I did sign? Oh yeah I resign from the notion Cuz yours was the potion That I'm supposed 2 die 4 I resign In self-pity so dark This shitty and stark Realization is all that will soothe Ultimately the only one That can save U is U Your God is inside and 4 that God U will do Whatever it takes If nothing else is true The only one that can save U is U, yeah As simplistic as it is that last verse has alway intrigued me. I think it sums up his thinking

no one realizes Prince and the hollywood community and the mafia and the government HAVE the comptuer program to access your thoughts..this is what he is refering to




I know you're being funny and that's cool and all but i was addressing how long the idea of 3rd eye had been on his mind and some of his concrete spiritual concepts while he was in the middle of his whole JW transition, this wasn't something new he picked up later in life.
Year of Return 2019
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Reply #115 posted 10/03/19 9:06pm

LoveGalore

BartVanHemelen said:

violetcrush said:


.

The person to "blame" is Lee Harris, a fan who mentioned Larry Graham being in the vicinity of a Prince concert on L4OA, which caused the two to meet.

Yeah, no. That is an inside joke from the days of Alt Music Prince.

The person to "blame" is Sinbad - who was on tour in the same city, with Larry Graham opening for him. Sinbad and Prince had been friends for years. Sinbad also discussed this himself.

Lee just tried to write himself into the story, which is simply false.

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Reply #116 posted 10/03/19 10:21pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

LoveGalore said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

The person to "blame" is Lee Harris, a fan who mentioned Larry Graham being in the vicinity of a Prince concert on L4OA, which caused the two to meet.

Yeah, no. That is an inside joke from the days of Alt Music Prince.

The person to "blame" is Sinbad - who was on tour in the same city, with Larry Graham opening for him. Sinbad and Prince had been friends for years. Sinbad also discussed this himself.

Lee just tried to write himself into the story, which is simply false.


OMG I REMEMBER THIS! The Lee Harris story is a lie.

You are right about Sinbad though, because didn't Sinbad used to organize and host funk festivals with Graham on the roster quite a bit?

Unrelated tale: I seem to remember one alt. person who went by JoeyCoco tried to hijack and steal a VHS tape on a tour during one of the first Celebrations. He was dating some other alt. chick (who typed like a 3 year old and refused to ever correct it) and she may have been with him at the time.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
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Reply #117 posted 10/03/19 11:41pm

LoveGalore

TrivialPursuit said:



LoveGalore said:




BartVanHemelen said:



.


The person to "blame" is Lee Harris, a fan who mentioned Larry Graham being in the vicinity of a Prince concert on L4OA, which caused the two to meet.




Yeah, no. That is an inside joke from the days of Alt Music Prince.



The person to "blame" is Sinbad - who was on tour in the same city, with Larry Graham opening for him. Sinbad and Prince had been friends for years. Sinbad also discussed this himself.



Lee just tried to write himself into the story, which is simply false.




OMG I REMEMBER THIS! The Lee Harris story is a lie.

You are right about Sinbad though, because didn't Sinbad used to organize and host funk festivals with Graham on the roster quite a bit?

Unrelated tale: I seem to remember one alt. person who went by JoeyCoco tried to hijack and steal a VHS tape on a tour during one of the first Celebrations. He was dating some other alt. chick (who typed like a 3 year old and refused to ever correct it) and she may have been with him at the time.



That chick was also a stripper, IIRC. And JC was banned from the Park for those antics. It was a huge deal, involved the cops and all.
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Reply #118 posted 10/04/19 2:07am

violetcrush

LoveGalore said:



BartVanHemelen said:




violetcrush said:





.


The person to "blame" is Lee Harris, a fan who mentioned Larry Graham being in the vicinity of a Prince concert on L4OA, which caused the two to meet.




Yeah, no. That is an inside joke from the days of Alt Music Prince.



The person to "blame" is Sinbad - who was on tour in the same city, with Larry Graham opening for him. Sinbad and Prince had been friends for years. Sinbad also discussed this himself.



Lee just tried to write himself into the story, which is simply false.


That makes sense based on Prince, Larry and Chaka appearing on his show about a year after Prince met Larry.
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Reply #119 posted 10/04/19 1:30pm

jfenster

onlyforaminute said:

jfenster said:

no one realizes Prince and the hollywood community and the mafia and the government HAVE the comptuer program to access your thoughts..this is what he is refering to

I know you're being funny and that's cool and all but i was addressing how long the idea of 3rd eye had been on his mind and some of his concrete spiritual concepts while he was in the middle of his whole JW transition, this wasn't something new he picked up later in life.

im not being funny

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