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Thread started 09/05/19 4:21pm

VaultCurator

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Dream Factory - Legacy Edition (A concept)

Hi everyone,

.
So I've been making my own compilations albums recently as I'm not keen on loading large box sets of out-takes onto my phone. I'd rather sequence unreleased tracks into album form. #albumsmatter

.

Since the majority of Dream Factory boots are made up of configuration 3 (the 18 July 1986 configuration) which is closer to Sign 'O' The Times in terms of tracks, I decided to sequence configuration 2 instead, as it has more exclusives such as 'It's A Wonderful Day' and 'In A Large Room With No Lights'.

.

Then I came up with a concept. What if I took all three known sequences of Dream Factory, remove all of the songs that ended up on ‘Sign 'O' The Times’, and combined the remaining tracks into one, all new Dream Factory sequence?

.

The result is a track list that (in my opinion) doesn't just make an incredible album in it’s own right, but a wonderful companion release to Sign ‘O’ The Times.

.

The track list is as follows...

.

01) Visions

02) Dream Factory

03) It's A Wonderful Day

04) Train

05) Big Tall Wall

06) Strange Relationship*

07) Teacher, Teacher

08) Interlude

09) In A Large Room With No Light

10) I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man*

11) Nevaeh Ni Ecalp A

12) Sexual Suicide

13) Crystal Ball

14) Power Fantastic

15) Last Heart

16) Witness 4 The Prosecution

17) Movie Star

18) A Place In Heaven (Lisa’s Vocal)

19) All My Dreams

.

*Since 'Strange Relationship' and 'I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man' are mixed / edited differently on Sign I decided to leave them on this edition. Sign O The Times, Dorothy Parker, It, Slow Love, Starfish and Coffee & The Cross have all been removed.

.

As 'And That Says What?' isn't in circulation I've obviously had to omit it.

.

So what are your thoughts on this concept? How would you feel as a fan if WB / the estate offered to release something like this officially? Do you think this release compliments 'Sign 'O' The Times' well, or do you think this is a butchered edition of a classic unreleased album? Would you prefer to see a legitimate sequence released instead, rather than what I have come up with?

.

It’s a work in progress so please share your thoughts.

.

[Edited for cleaner formatting ]

[Edited 9/5/19 16:24pm]

RIP EXTRALOVEABLE!!! sad
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Reply #1 posted 09/05/19 4:32pm

TheFman

it's a strong album, 3/4 of these songs are better than 9/10 of songs on SOTT.

Perhaps my mistake, but wasn't Teacher Teacher a song from Roadhouse Garden rather than... euuh yeah right, of course, i get it smile

SOTT is more commercial than this, but this is way stronger, though less coherent.

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Reply #2 posted 09/05/19 6:00pm

lurker316

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I love the concept.

Which version of Witness 4 the Prosecution are you including, the one with horns or without?

Track 11, Nevaeh Ni Ecalp A... Isn't that the segue between Visions and Dream Factory where Wendy is trying to get into a club without ID? I never know that was considered in a different sequence.

The alternative version of Strange Relationship is the one with middle eastern intro, right?

What's the alternate version of I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man? Is that the one with the long intro where he sings, "You know and I Know..." a few times? I found that online listed as "extended version".




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Reply #3 posted 09/05/19 6:21pm

Seahorsie

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Good job! Any version of Dream factory to me is a winner. I have thought about the lyrics to that song quite a bit...

Good morning children...take a look out your window, the world is falling...
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Reply #4 posted 09/05/19 7:03pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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I know everyone here loves mashing together albums and concepts together; resequence this, reconfigure (or original configuration #33B) that, what with the quantity of material, okay, fine, it's your iPhone, but to me, if you start speaking officially, I can't think of a more direct way to piss on his legacy and artistic intent unless we start talking, like, Coachella hologram or Justin Bieber duet.

[Edited 9/5/19 19:04pm]

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Reply #5 posted 09/05/19 7:49pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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WhisperingDandelions said:

I know everyone here loves mashing together albums and concepts together; resequence this, reconfigure (or original configuration #33B) that, what with the quantity of material, okay, fine, it's your iPhone, but to me, if you start speaking officially, I can't think of a more direct way to piss on his legacy and artistic intent unless we start talking, like, Coachella hologram or Justin Bieber duet.

[Edited 9/5/19 19:04pm]

Image result for susan rogers june configuration of dream factory

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #6 posted 09/06/19 1:46am

WhisperingDand
elions

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OldFriends4Sale said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

I know everyone here loves mashing together albums and concepts together; resequence this, reconfigure (or original configuration #33B) that, what with the quantity of material, okay, fine, it's your iPhone, but to me, if you start speaking officially, I can't think of a more direct way to piss on his legacy and artistic intent unless we start talking, like, Coachella hologram or Justin Bieber duet.

[Edited 9/5/19 19:04pm]

Image result for susan rogers june configuration of dream factory

And...?

I think I already covered "original configurations" in my rant, but I'm confused as why you would cite this, as VaultCurator's sequence isn't this.

But even if it was, I fail to see how an aborted (or cancelled, or thrown away) configuration is a valid means to establish artistic intent. They're rough drafts, sketches, notes, a means to guide himself forward to his next actual release, which was SOTT, which is the only piece of complete art from this "era" we can stand back with 100% certainty that he did intend us to hear in this specific way, in that specific sequence.

The rest, I mean. It's more evidence of his engineers fishing through his wastepaper basket or WB keeping ample logs than anything Prince the artist intended. If he wanted this version of Dream Factory released in this specific sequence.... he would have released it as Dream Factory in this specific sequence... you don't think?

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Reply #7 posted 09/06/19 2:03am

Krid

Wouldn't that be great to get - a SOTT extended box set, with SOTT orginal, the b-sides and extended versions (I love the long versions of Hot Thing, You Got the Look, ICNTTPOYM), the Dream Factory outtakes (as posted above), and the movie in 4K with crystal clear sound.

What a prolific period that was...

And people can only buy the set if they wear peach ;=)

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Reply #8 posted 09/06/19 4:57am

jaawwnn

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My own playing-around-the-house version is 2CDs packed to the brim with unreleased studio 85/86 tracks.

The only crossover with his actually released stuff are the Crystal Ball (1998) tracks, Joy in Repetition (segueing from The Ball of course) and the earlier version of Strange Relationship. It vaguely follows the June 1986 tracklisting but obviously goes way too far. I'm very much going for the maximalist approach with it, including not finished tracks like Coco Boys on there because why not.

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Reply #9 posted 09/06/19 7:23am

badassdewi

Whilst i think the official tracklists would make a fine release for the estate, for shits and giggles i love to do similar things with unreleased tracks.

This is a fine effort, and gives a home to the debris floating around all of these canned ideas and albums.

I made a two disc compilation of the Camille/Crystal Ball/Dream Factory/songs for other people in chronological order of recording, and called it "Sounds of the Times", after a promo tape - it covers post-Parade up to early 1987

https://www.discogs.com/P...se/9021388

The artwork worked great, and its a consistent entertaining listen smile

[Edited 9/6/19 7:26am]

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Reply #10 posted 09/06/19 8:46am

Sydney

That "Dream Factory" tracklist via Susan Rogers could have been one of the greatest Prince albums ever.

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Reply #11 posted 09/06/19 4:42pm

SquirrelMeat

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WhisperingDandelions said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Dream%252BFactory%252Bby%252BSusan%252BRogers.jpg

And...?

I think I already covered "original configurations" in my rant, but I'm confused as why you would cite this, as VaultCurator's sequence isn't this.

But even if it was, I fail to see how an aborted (or cancelled, or thrown away) configuration is a valid means to establish artistic intent. They're rough drafts, sketches, notes, a means to guide himself forward to his next actual release, which was SOTT, which is the only piece of complete art from this "era" we can stand back with 100% certainty that he did intend us to hear in this specific way, in that specific sequence.

The rest, I mean. It's more evidence of his engineers fishing through his wastepaper basket or WB keeping ample logs than anything Prince the artist intended. If he wanted this version of Dream Factory released in this specific sequence.... he would have released it as Dream Factory in this specific sequence... you don't think?



I can get that standpoint, but I don't agree.

Some of these configurations made it to mastering stage, meaning Prince thought it was good enough, but his sheer speed of recording and lack of attention span often meant he changed his mind on a weekly basis.

Then of course we have to think about record company influence. SOTT is not the album Prince wanted to release. He wanted Crystal Ball, but cut it down when WB stood firm. So what is the definative work? The prefered version of the artist or the editted version prefered by the record company that stands as the 'official release'?

There are 5 versions of Blade Runner, but the director Ridley Scott prefers the version that didn't get the theatrical release, and Van Gogh made 7 versions of Sunflowers, because he couldn't decide if it should be a single image or a triptych.

All opinions aside, I love playing with older album configurations. They give an insight into Prince's thought process and they refresh my listening enjoyment of older material.


.

[Edited 9/6/19 16:44pm]

.
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Reply #12 posted 09/06/19 4:48pm

Hamad

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OldFriends4Sale said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

I know everyone here loves mashing together albums and concepts together; resequence this, reconfigure (or original configuration #33B) that, what with the quantity of material, okay, fine, it's your iPhone, but to me, if you start speaking officially, I can't think of a more direct way to piss on his legacy and artistic intent unless we start talking, like, Coachella hologram or Justin Bieber duet.

[Edited 9/5/19 19:04pm]

Image result for susan rogers june configuration of dream factory

Hmm! I just noticed "Wendy" on the tracklist and the vault website states that its her playing guitar. I must've forgotten about that one because it doesn't ring the bell, but yeah that configuration kicks ass. The song flows nicely & they fit the dream sequence-feel through out the album, also great touch on ending the album with "All My Dreams".

Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...
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Reply #13 posted 09/06/19 4:59pm

SquirrelMeat

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Hamad said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Image result for susan rogers june configuration of dream factory

Hmm! I just noticed "Wendy" on the tracklist and the vault website states that its her playing guitar. I must've forgotten about that one because it doesn't ring the bell, but yeah that configuration kicks ass. The song flows nicely & they fit the dream sequence-feel through out the album, also great touch on ending the album with "All My Dreams".



It's just a small guitar interlude. It was later used as an intro to I could never take the place of your man.

.
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Reply #14 posted 09/06/19 5:07pm

Hamad

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^^Thank you smile

Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future...
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Reply #15 posted 09/07/19 1:30am

Dandroppedadim
e

I’ve got absolutely no problem with the estate releasing Dream Factory (or Crystal Ball/Camille), because we know from records/notes that there were sequences made by Prince of these records. Bring it on!
On another point the estate have to work out a way to release songs from the vault, so they either make up compilations or use the info that exists (however controversial that may be to some)
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Reply #16 posted 09/07/19 3:26am

VaultCurator

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lurker316 said:


I love the concept.

Which version of Witness 4 the Prosecution are you including, the one with horns or without?

Track 11, Nevaeh Ni Ecalp A... Isn't that the segue between Visions and Dream Factory where Wendy is trying to get into a club without ID? I never know that was considered in a different sequence.

The alternative version of Strange Relationship is the one with middle eastern intro, right?

What's the alternate version of I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man? Is that the one with the long intro where he sings, "You know and I Know..." a few times? I found that online listed as "extended version".


.

Hi Lurker, and thank you.
.
The version of Witness I've used is the version with horns as I believe that is the only version that was considered for DF.
.
Yes, 'Nevaeh Ni Ecalp A' is the interlude used before Dream Factory in configuration 3 (the best known version), however it was also considered use later on in the album before Sexual Suicide. I'm torn with this one as it fits before Dream Factory so well, however the album starts so slowly this way around. You have Visions which is essentially an intro, followed by an interlude. Personally, if I was Prince I would have chosen between either Visions or Nevaeh Ni Ecalp A as the album intro. I don't think having both back to back was the right call. Hence why I decided to move 'Nevaeh Ni Ecalp' A forward to where it was on configuration 2.
.
Yes, the alternate Strange Relationship is the version with the alternate intro. All Dream Factory versions were this way. It only changed after The Revolution broke up. When Prince made the Camille album shortly after he remixed the song into what we know as the Sign version.
.
There is actually very little difference between Dream Factory's 'I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man' and the version on Sign. The version on Sign is edited shorter by about 20 seconds (I think a few bars were removed to shorten the break down but don't quote me on this. I'll need to double check). The difference is so minimal that I had considered removing this track as well. I'm on the fence about it.

RIP EXTRALOVEABLE!!! sad
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Reply #17 posted 09/07/19 3:26am

NouveauDance

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I think some of the tracks left on the cutting room floor are obviously lower tier like Teacher, Teacher and It's A Wonderful Day, it's clear why they were replaced imo.

.

Regarding a SOTT deluxe - because the album is up there with 1999 and PR in terms of visibility and acclaim with the wider audience, I do wonder whether they would dilute its brand by making a show of its evolution in any future remaster. That is, I would expect them to include some of the DF/CB tracks on, say, a disc of unreleased tracks a la the PR re-issue, but I would be very surprised to see a standalone Dream Factory release or huge package including a config of DF/CB/Camille/SOTT each. At least no time soon. Prove me wrong estate, prove me wrong please do!

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Reply #18 posted 09/07/19 4:07am

VaultCurator

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NouveauDance said:

I think some of the tracks left on the cutting room floor are obviously lower tier like Teacher, Teacher and It's A Wonderful Day, it's clear why they were replaced imo.

.

Hi NouveauDance,
.
Personally I'm rather fond of 'It's a Wonderful Day'. Ok, it may not stand up against songs like 'It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night' or 'If I Was Your Girlfriend'. Having said that I think I prefer it to 'The Ballad of Dorothy Parker' or even 'Starfish & Coffee', so I think describing it as lower tier is a little unfair.
.
Also I think songs like 'In A Large Room With No Lights' and 'A Place In Heaven' are worthy of a full album release. Having said that, as long as they get released in some form of fashion I really don't mind whether it's on the main feature or a disc of bonus material. As long as it gets out.

.

I think we can all agree that this era of material is long overdue a proper release.

RIP EXTRALOVEABLE!!! sad
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Reply #19 posted 09/07/19 11:51am

NouveauDance

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VaultCurator said:

Personally I'm rather fond of 'It's a Wonderful Day'. Ok, it may not stand up against songs like 'It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night' or 'If I Was Your Girlfriend'. Having said that I think I prefer it to 'The Ballad of Dorothy Parker' or even 'Starfish & Coffee', so I think describing it as lower tier is a little unfair.
.
Also I think songs like 'In A Large Room With No Lights' and 'A Place In Heaven' are worthy of a full album release. Having said that, as long as they get released in some form of fashion I really don't mind whether it's on the main feature or a disc of bonus material. As long as it gets out.

.

I think we can all agree that this era of material is long overdue a proper release.

Mmmm, I like all those tracks too, just that I think some of them were replaced for better in the end - much like say, Electric Intercourse and the Beautiful Ones. The former is a great song, but the latter most would agree outshines it. Any way, that's all down to personal taste. I think another partial reason some tracks were shed is that once Prince had progressed to the next project being Crystal Ball some songs simply had too much of a Revolution sound - IALRWNL and A Place In Heaven would be good examples I'd guess - both superb nonetheless.

.

.

[Edited 9/7/19 11:54am]

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Reply #20 posted 09/07/19 2:42pm

MIInsane

NouveauDance said:

I think some of the tracks left on the cutting room floor are obviously lower tier like Teacher, Teacher and It's A Wonderful Day, it's clear why they were replaced imo.

These are two of my favorite Prince tracks.

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Reply #21 posted 09/07/19 6:18pm

violetcrush

SquirrelMeat said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

And...?

I think I already covered "original configurations" in my rant, but I'm confused as why you would cite this, as VaultCurator's sequence isn't this.

But even if it was, I fail to see how an aborted (or cancelled, or thrown away) configuration is a valid means to establish artistic intent. They're rough drafts, sketches, notes, a means to guide himself forward to his next actual release, which was SOTT, which is the only piece of complete art from this "era" we can stand back with 100% certainty that he did intend us to hear in this specific way, in that specific sequence.

The rest, I mean. It's more evidence of his engineers fishing through his wastepaper basket or WB keeping ample logs than anything Prince the artist intended. If he wanted this version of Dream Factory released in this specific sequence.... he would have released it as Dream Factory in this specific sequence... you don't think?



I can get that standpoint, but I don't agree.

Some of these configurations made it to mastering stage, meaning Prince thought it was good enough, but his sheer speed of recording and lack of attention span often meant he changed his mind on a weekly basis.

Then of course we have to think about record company influence. SOTT is not the album Prince wanted to release. He wanted Crystal Ball, but cut it down when WB stood firm. So what is the definative work? The prefered version of the artist or the editted version prefered by the record company that stands as the 'official release'?

There are 5 versions of Blade Runner, but the director Ridley Scott prefers the version that didn't get the theatrical release, and Van Gogh made 7 versions of Sunflowers, because he couldn't decide if it should be a single image or a triptych.

All opinions aside, I love playing with older album configurations. They give an insight into Prince's thought process and they refresh my listening enjoyment of older material.


.

[Edited 9/6/19 16:44pm]

^^^^ Right. It has been well documented that Dream Factory morphed into the triple set Crystal Ball, and then WB forced Prince to reduce it to a double album which then became SOTT. If the songs were on a tracklist then it stands to reason that they were important to him and worthy of release - and several were eventually released in later years.

*

This period was the start of Prince's frustration with WB's control of his output.

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Reply #22 posted 09/07/19 6:20pm

violetcrush

OldFriends4Sale said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

I know everyone here loves mashing together albums and concepts together; resequence this, reconfigure (or original configuration #33B) that, what with the quantity of material, okay, fine, it's your iPhone, but to me, if you start speaking officially, I can't think of a more direct way to piss on his legacy and artistic intent unless we start talking, like, Coachella hologram or Justin Bieber duet.

[Edited 9/5/19 19:04pm]

Image result for susan rogers june configuration of dream factory

I love this configuration. I would take it just like this.

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Reply #23 posted 09/07/19 6:25pm

coldasice

OldFriends4Sale said:



WhisperingDandelions said:


I know everyone here loves mashing together albums and concepts together; resequence this, reconfigure (or original configuration #33B) that, what with the quantity of material, okay, fine, it's your iPhone, but to me, if you start speaking officially, I can't think of a more direct way to piss on his legacy and artistic intent unless we start talking, like, Coachella hologram or Justin Bieber duet.


[Edited 9/5/19 19:04pm]





Image result for susan rogers june configuration of dream factory


Have you not read that he’d sometimes just stick songs in as place holders. Susan is the one that said that also. If he wanted it out like this...it woulda been
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Reply #24 posted 09/07/19 6:36pm

violetcrush

coldasice said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Image result for susan rogers june configuration of dream factory

Have you not read that he’d sometimes just stick songs in as place holders. Susan is the one that said that also. If he wanted it out like this...it woulda been

These songs were important to him though. Per Susannah, who was living with him during this time, the Dream Factory recordings which then became the Crystal Ball project was supposed to be an epic release for him. She said it was a big deal.

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Reply #25 posted 09/07/19 6:46pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

but it wasn't released this way because the band was no longer there.

Not because it wasn't the way Prince want it.

What Susan Rogers said about fitting songs in as bridges was specifically about SOTT.

And even though SOTT was released as it, it was not what Prince wanted.

coldasice said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Dream%252BFactory%252Bby%252BSusan%252BRogers.jpg

Have you not read that he’d sometimes just stick songs in as place holders. Susan is the one that said that also. If he wanted it out like this...it woulda been

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #26 posted 09/07/19 6:53pm

violetcrush

OldFriends4Sale said:

but it wasn't released this way because the band was no longer there.

Not because it wasn't the way Prince want it.

What Susan Rogers said about fitting songs in as bridges was specifically about SOTT.

And even though SOTT was released as it, it was not what Prince wanted.

coldasice said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Have you not read that he’d sometimes just stick songs in as place holders. Susan is the one that said that also. If he wanted it out like this...it woulda been

yes Prince had to remove SO much for the SOTT release. Really quite a shame, and understandable why he was so pissed off.

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