leecaldon said:

BartVanHemelen said:

https://musicfans.stackex...m/a/89/129

That was a good read.

That contract was a huge mistake.There was no way that Prince could live up to those sales expectations.

Astasheiks said:

feeluupp said:

The "SLAVE" era all started in 1992 with the $100 million contract he could never abide by in terms of commercial standards. This came right after the adequate sales of D&P and WB was assuming Prince could keep the consitant sales of over 5 million world wide, which didn't happen with the very next album Love Symbol, which sold at best 2 million world wide. Right after that WB paid Prince 1 million to stay OUT of The Hits 1, 2 and The B-Sides project... Meanwhile for his first greatest hits configuration compared to all the other major artists, flopped, selling 1 million each.

Clearly the 5 million figure was long and gone with D&P as Love Symbol and The Hits albums weren't pushing the figures WB expected to... As a matter of fact The Hits 1,2/The B-Sides were the last WB albums released to ever reach platinum. Come was released when he was promoting TGE the whole time, and none of his WB albums after that ever went platinum again.

Come went GOLD, The Black Album didn't sell well at all, the hype was long gone in 94, making it seem very tame compared to the grunge and gangster rap during the time, and TGE barely went GOLD in the U.S. Chaos & Disorder failed to reach GOLD, The Vault sold nothing as well.

How many units you have to sale for Gold? TGE was a darn good Album and it barely went Gold in the US. Can't believe it barely went Gold!

An album has to sell 500,000 copies to reach gold status.

TGE is a terrific album filled with potential hit singles.The problem is,Prince was feuding with Warners,the album got delayed,and it didn't receive the proper promotion that it deserved.

TrivialPursuit said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Wrong as usual.

[Snip - luv4u], as usual. NPG Records was already in the works, while not on a CD yet, when Prince was looking to renegotiate the deal around that time. Shit takes time, you [Snip - luv4u].

Easy, tiger. At least you spelled "NPG Records" right.

And nobody can ever take that away from you.

That being said, you know, one can argue 1999 was "in the works" since 1981, that doesn't change the year it actually came out.

SoulAlive said:

leecaldon said:

That was a good read.

That contract was a huge mistake.There was no way that Prince could live up to those sales expectations.

It was commercial suicide for Prince.

As great as the music was or wasn't after that contract signing... He never regained real commercial success with sales anymore. Musicology was an exception which went 2x Platinum yet a majority was due to give aways.

feeluupp said:

SoulAlive said:

That contract was a huge mistake.There was no way that Prince could live up to those sales expectations.

It was commercial suicide for Prince.

As great as the music was or wasn't after that contract signing... He never regained real commercial success with sales anymore. Musicology was an exception which went 2x Platinum yet a majority was due to give aways.

Prince would've had to expand on the elements that made Purple Rain work to make that contract viable.

But he abandoned those notions long ago.

BartVanHemelen said:

TrivialPursuit said:

NPG Records was already in the works, while not on a CD yet, when Prince was looking to renegotiate the deal around that time. Shit takes time.

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And your evidence for that is what? Zero zilch nada nothing. NPG Records was created in 1993, a year after the 1992 deal was announced. https://www.princevault.c...PG_Records .

And yours is always some article you find on a random website that backs up your ideas? That's called living in an echo chamber. Enjoy that, do ya? You're fussing over when it was actually "created" on paper, vs when Prince was already considering new moves in his career. But okay, Bert.

feeluupp said:

MotownSubdivision said:

The more this subject gets talked about, the more I realize that P himself was the biggest reason for his lack of commercial success post-80's. Warner went out of their way to appease Prince on many fronts and for the most part he didn't deliver. Not because he couldn't but because he didn't want too.

That was the paradox with Prince. Commercial success vs true artistic freedom.

His three bigges selling albums are

1999 - 7 Million

Purple Rain - 21 Million

Diamonds & Pearls - 7 Million

With 1999 it sold well after his debut on MTV and with the Little Red Corvette video, about 2 million at the time which was his highest sales to date, but it actually sold more due to the aftermath of Purple Rain.

Purple Rain was a milestone event, he actually believe it or not ended up stopping the sales push for that album when he got tired of touring and decided to release ATWIAD. Neverless it sold over 20 million world wide.

Diamonds & Pearls was a major comeback due to the pressure of WB and the hiring of Frank Dileo MJ's former manager to promote it strategically into the mainstream. The end result was a 7 million world wide seller.

The problem is Prince didn't want to be consistant with his promotion, promotion is a minimum 2 year ordeal per album, he wanted to jump to album from album whenever his musical and artistic inspiration shifted for his next project. The market for that is his fans but everything else gets lost in the mix, hence his brilliant output post Purple Rain but non strategical promotion. Sure he promotes, but it's the strategy of how he promotes, does it affect mainstream is the most important aspect. Promoting an album is not doing numerous Paisley Park events and specials, that is not the mainstream appeal, it's actually the exact opposite, more appealing to his "cult" of fans.

The brilliant output post Purple Rain came with genius music and short lived tours but again non strategical promotion which Prince simply didn't want to be involved in, albums like PARADE, SOTT, LOVESEXY are brilliant albums and way ahead of their time for that generation yet have very average sales figures, and quite low for an artist of his magnitude. PARADE - 4 million world wide, SOTT - 4 million world wide, LOVESEXY 2 million world wide.

Contracts are as a standard form over a long period of time so that a record company can look after it's investment.

However each album and single release is on an 'option' which means a label can cancel the contract if previous releases fail. It's common for artists to be signed on a five album deal which then comes to nothing!

Usually an advance is paid on each option - for example, the acceptance of the next album.

In Prince's case it is very rare for anyone to actually have a career that lives out the entire contract duration. So I am sure it must have been renegotiated along the way.

Just like most artists, these contracts are signed with ignorance and the thought of making lots of money.

In fairness Prince and Warners did very well out of their relationship but Prince wanted more and so wanted to take the ball and leave the playground!

I feel Prince should have stayed with Warners and worked with them - after all, post Warners proved Warners must have been doing something right!

darkroman said:

Contracts are as a standard form over a long period of time so that a record company can look after it's investment.

However each album and single release is on an 'option' which means a label can cancel the contract if previous releases fail. It's common for artists to be signed on a five album deal which then comes to nothing!

Usually an advance is paid on each option - for example, the acceptance of the next album.

In Prince's case it is very rare for anyone to actually have a career that lives out the entire contract duration. So I am sure it must have been renegotiated along the way.

Just like most artists, these contracts are signed with ignorance and the thought of making lots of money.

In fairness Prince and Warners did very well out of their relationship but Prince wanted more and so wanted to take the ball and leave the playground!

I feel Prince should have stayed with Warners and worked with them - after all, post Warners proved Warners must have been doing something right!

I am not 100% what all you mean. But I know that Prince singed a contract in 1977...that was for 3 albums. In 1980/81 he signed a new one. Under its terms he was allowed to develop new talent, this lead to the formation of "The Time" and "Vanity 6."

Then in 84/85 he got another contract. That one may have been the result of a renegotiation. This was what created Paisley Park. And I suspect that there was another in 88 or 89?

It was after the 92 contract that he got all mad and felt cheated. But wait! By 92 he had released so 25 albums and 4 movies? He shouldn't he have known what was going on by then?

and there are no enforceable contracts over 10 years... (even a "life-time" is limited based on actions that in effect re-affirm the contract.)

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I am not 100% what all you mean. But I know that Prince singed a contract in 1977...that was for 3 albums. In 1980/81 he signed a new one.

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I very much doubt this. PR was IIRC part of the second deal/contract extension, because he demanded a movie. There's no way Prince had a contract in 1980/81 for two albums (Controversy / 1999), it's more likely those two appeared as part of the first contract. That "three albums" is a "minimum", but likely there were options for the label to go up to five. Considering that Prince spent the advance for three albums on his first, he wasn't in a place to demand much after FY/P/DM.

BartVanHemelen said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I am not 100% what all you mean. But I know that Prince singed a contract in 1977...that was for 3 albums. In 1980/81 he signed a new one.

.

I very much doubt this. PR was IIRC part of the second deal/contract extension, because he demanded a movie. There's no way Prince had a contract in 1980/81 for two albums (Controversy / 1999), it's more likely those two appeared as part of the first contract. That "three albums" is a "minimum", but likely there were options for the label to go up to five. Considering that Prince spent the advance for three albums on his first, he wasn't in a place to demand much after FY/P/DM.

There was a new deal in 80/81 that allowed Prince to develope new acts. That has been well covered in many places. It is very well known. The movie was not part of that contract... that was a seprate deal. In fact based on what I have read it being a WB movie was not a foregone conclusion.

The formation of Pasily Park would have requied a new contact.


Now it is possable that some of the new deals cancled out or took the place on exisiting terms of a prio-contract. But none of thoes were for 15 years. As far as I know the max limit to a contract is 10 years.